Painting a camera

[mike_j]

I have a ex spares bin Spotmatic which is now in working order but the satin chrome pentaprism is badly scarred by rubbing against some accessory and other areas are in poor condition. It won't polish out but the metal work is undented so I thought it might be interesting to give it a flashy paint job - the camera value is negligible so there isn't much to lose.

Any tips on preparation, paint types etc please?

[Vickko]

Lots of references on the inability to paint on chrome. The fanatics strip the chrome and nickel underplating off, and the prime and paint. Even painting on brass is not easy.

Look on Google. Google Shintaro.

Good luck.

I've painted a number of Leica's (beaten up M's, removed chrome by sanding) and a few Nikon RF's (painted on chrome, didn't like the look of chrome but no way to afford authentic black).

Vick,

[Kim Coxon]

I will have a look but I might have a spare top. Which model Spot is it?

Kim

I have a ex spares bin Spotmatic which is now in working order but the satin chrome pentaprism is badly scarred by rubbing against some accessory and other areas are in poor condition. It won't polish out but the metal work is undented so I thought it might be interesting to give it a flashy paint job - the camera value is negligible so there isn't much to lose.

Any tips on preparation, paint types etc please?

[mike_j]

Kim,

Thank you, I haven't done anything with it since repairing it (CLA).

It is a basic SP, S/N 1033104, I really bought it for the 50/f1.4 lens and that was a problem in itself but now fixed and in regular use on my Olympus e510 digital.

[FallisPhoto]

I have a ex spares bin Spotmatic which is now in working order but the satin chrome pentaprism is badly scarred by rubbing against some accessory and other areas are in poor condition. It won't polish out but the metal work is undented so I thought it might be interesting to give it a flashy paint job - the camera value is negligible so there isn't much to lose.

Any tips on preparation, paint types etc please?

The chrome will come off with either an acid wash (look for a product sold in marine hardware stores called Alumabrite -- 50/50 mix of hydrochloric and sulphuric acids), or with extra fine sandpaper. You can either go for a brass finish (finish by sanding with 600-grit sandpaper and a coat of clear lacquer), or you can prime and paint. If you paint, use automotive grade enamel, thinned to 50% and applied with an air brush. Once it has dried, put the painted parts into a box with a couple of 100-watt lightbulbs for 24 hours, to bake and harden the paint. Go to the Micro Tools website for paint sticks, used to fill in lettering: http://www.micro-tools.com/

[LeicaTom]

The chrome will come off with either an acid wash (look for a product sold in marine hardware stores called Alumabrite -- 50/50 mix of hydrochloric and sulphuric acids), or with extra fine sandpaper. You can either go for a brass finish (finish by sanding with 600-grit sandpaper and a coat of clear lacquer), or you can prime and paint. If you paint, use automotive grade enamel, thinned to 50% and applied with an air brush. Once it has dried, put the painted parts into a box with a couple of 100-watt lightbulbs for 24 hours, to bake and harden the paint. Go to the Micro Tools website for paint sticks, used to fill in lettering: http://www.micro-tools.com/

Here`s an original 1943 Leica IIIC Grey Paint camera - that`s received an early 1950`s factory upgrade conversion to IIIFBD
(this is NOT my camera the photo is just for a paint reference for anyone who`s never seen one of these cameras before)

http://i16.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/d9/2e/a387_12.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300198030067&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting)

I think soon I`ll be painting a Leica Grey Paint camera "clone"
from a 1945 "stepper" rewind Leica IIIC to a IIIFBD conversion camera I just found on evilbay - paint to WW2 RLM German Military paint chip code
(I will be matching the paint from a real IIIC K Grey for this)
- so I can have a Grey Paint IIIC that looks just like the real thing, but a camera I don`t have to worry about getting damaged and or losing it`s historical value and the IIIC to IIIF conversion will work almost as smoothly
as a real IIIC K does, without the $2,000+ investment....and Grey paint looks really good on a Leica IIIC

It`s all simply for personal satisfaction that I do this, I want to use a camera till all the paint wears off and gets it`s own classic "patina" - purists turn your head please ;)

I`ll have maybe $400 or so invested in it by the time it`s all done, an amount that I think I can live with for a "personal" touch Leica - I`ll post photos of it and one`s taken by it here at RFF sometime

Tom

[FallisPhoto]

I think soon I`ll be painting a Leica Grey Paint camera "clone"
from a 1945 "stepper" rewind Leica IIIC to a IIIFBD conversion camera I just found on evilbay - paint to WW2 RLM German Military paint chip code
(I will be matching the paint from a real IIIC K Grey for this)
- so I can have a Grey Paint IIIC that looks just like the real thing, but a camera I don`t have to worry about getting damaged and or losing it`s historical value and the IIIC to IIIF conversion will work almost as smoothly
as a real IIIC K does, without the $2,000+ investment....and Grey paint looks really good on a Leica IIIC

It`s all simply for personal satisfaction that I do this, I want to use a camera till all the paint wears off and gets it`s own classic "patina" - purists turn your head please ;)

I`ll have maybe $400 or so invested in it by the time it`s all done, an amount that I think I can live with for a "personal" touch Leica - I`ll post photos of it and one`s taken by it here at RFF sometime

Tom

This thread suddenly got very interesting. How are you planning to do this (acid or sanding prep)? Are you planning to take photos of the process? My next paint job is probably going to be a Welta Perle.

[drewbarb]

There have been plenty of DIY camera painting threads posted in various places on the web which are worth reading, if that interests you. It strikes me as a good idea to read as much as you care to about what others have done before you try it yourself. Check this thread out, for instance: http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00BY5U

Good luck, and let us know what you come up with!

[FallisPhoto]

There have been plenty of DIY camera painting threads posted in various places on the web which are worth reading, if that interests you. It strikes me as a good idea to read as much as you care to about what others have done before you try it yourself. Check this thread out, for instance: http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00BY5U

Good luck, and let us know what you come up with!

I'm not sure which of us you aimed this post at. I've done it myself, several times, but everyone has his/her own technique. I'm interested in his, and in seeing whether he gets as good (or better) results as I do.

[drewbarb]

I'm not sure which of us you aimed this post at. I've done it myself, several times, but everyone has his/her own technique. I'm interested in his, and in seeing whether he gets as good (or better) results as I do.

Yep. I just posted that link as a resource, incase anyone found it useful. The more information/ideas the better. I'm interested to see what Mike does, too.

[LeicaTom]

Hello Folks!

Well, I want to go about this in the acid dip way, full chrome strip, so as it ages it gets all brassy looking as the originals

I have to watch as my IIIC/IIIFBD conversion has some dent/nick issues, which I have to attend to as I receive the camera
(I just won it over the evilbay)

The largest problem will be the prep and also finding a modern paint that will look/react like the old fashioned German RLM military paint that Leitz used on the original WW2 era Grey paint cameras

Also curing of paint doesn`t happen overnight either so this will be a long process - I`m more of a historian then "hands on" repair/restore person, so more than likely this will be carried out by someone other than myself, we will see......just will take some planning and lot`s of thinking through to get the proper look with the camera

In one of my old issues of Leica Photography there was a man in Scotland who was world reknowned for his Leica paint restorations in the 1960`s, but even then he had problems with the Grey paint cameras and ceased restoring them while he had issues with getting the right paint/finish results

I never read anything else about him and the Grey paint to see if he had ever fixed the issues at his restoration shop?

Tom

PS; I think with this paint I`m going to refer to original WW2 era German military style paints that aircraft modelers would use, getting a close match there as I hope to get a more technical paint chip match from using an original Grey paint camera as reference

[nikonhswebmaster]

As usual I want to offer my fine "Paint it Yourself and Save" (tm) kit. I have a few of them left at the amazing price of $149.95, plus shipping. (camera not included)
http://www.nikonhs.org/tech_articles/kit.jpg

[cosmonot]

I have been debating doing this to a QL17 I have. It's jammed up pretty good, so I've got to do something to it... Not sure what the top covers are made of though, might be brass, might not.

[Rik]

I'm in the process of repainting an old Leica M2.
I hav first taken off the chrome and nickel plating with hydrochloric acid. A 30% solution can be bought here in the Netherlands in good hardware stores. Just drop the parts in there, leave them for a while and a light sanding does the rest. Gets down to the brass. Be careful with that stuff though.
After that i have degreased the parts with Hammerite Metal degreaser. And then i have bought a matt black spray can of the stuff that is also used for exhaust pipes. Spray it on, leave to dry for an hour and then put it in the oven for 2 hours or so at 160 degrees celcius.
I have just done the top plate and bottom plate and in my opinion it looks really neat. Its really a matt black. I will post some picture when i have put the thing together again.
As i'm based in the Netherlands, some stuff i have used may not be available everywhere.

[FallisPhoto]

Tom

PS; I think with this paint I`m going to refer to original WW2 era German military style paints that aircraft modelers would use, getting a close match there as I hope to get a more technical paint chip match from using an original Grey paint camera as reference

A word of warning: DO NOT use a modeling paint, like Testors. It will never harden, no matter how long you bake it. I learned this the hard way, on my first repainting job. If you use modelling paint, you'll regret it. It does a fine job of sticking to plastic models, where it doesn't have to be very durable, but it sucks for cameras. Use an automotive grade paint. I don't know how well you will be able to match it (I kind of doubt they will have a WWII German gray at Advance Auto Parts), and you may have to mix your own. Once you have the appropriate shade of gray, thin it to 50% and apply with an air brush. Put the parts, once dried, into a box with a pair of 100-watt lightbulbs for at least 24 hours, to cure and harden the paint.

[FallisPhoto]

I'm in the process of repainting an old Leica M2.
I hav first taken off the chrome and nickel plating with hydrochloric acid. A 30% solution can be bought here in the Netherlands in good hardware stores. Just drop the parts in there, leave them for a while and a light sanding does the rest. Gets down to the brass. Be careful with that stuff though.
After that i have degreased the parts with Hammerite Metal degreaser. And then i have bought a matt black spray can of the stuff that is also used for exhaust pipes. Spray it on, leave to dry for an hour and then put it in the oven for 2 hours or so at 160 degrees celcius.
I have just done the top plate and bottom plate and in my opinion it looks really neat. Its really a matt black. I will post some picture when i have put the thing together again.
As i'm based in the Netherlands, some stuff i have used may not be available everywhere.

You might want to put it back in the oven for a while Rik. It takes about 24 hours to properly cure enamel.

[Rik]

You might want to put it back in the oven for a while Rik. It takes about 24 hours to properly cure enamel.

Is this enamel? It just says on the can that it should be heated for some time, does not specify how long that is. So I figured 2 hours it some time.

But if needed i can put it back for more heat. It already looks and feels quite hard now to be honest.

[nikonhswebmaster]

I'm in the process of repainting an old Leica M2.
I hav first taken off the chrome and nickel plating with hydrochloric acid. A 30% solution can be bought here in the Netherlands in good hardware stores. Just drop the parts in there, leave them for a while and a light sanding does the rest. Gets down to the brass. Be careful with that stuff though.
After that i have degreased the parts with Hammerite Metal degreaser. And then i have bought a matt black spray can of the stuff that is also used for exhaust pipes. Spray it on, leave to dry for an hour and then put it in the oven for 2 hours or so at 160 degrees celcius.
I have just done the top plate and bottom plate and in my opinion it looks really neat. Its really a matt black. I will post some picture when i have put the thing together again.
As i'm based in the Netherlands, some stuff i have used may not be available everywhere.

As much as I hate repainted cameras, don't remove the nickel, you need it for the paint to stick. If you paint on brass the paint will not stay on for very long, since copper oxides will form and the paint will come off.

[digitalintrigue]

Not true...remove the chrome and the nickel, and then use a proper primer on the brass. There are special primers made specific for brass. Or just send it to me. :)

And forget sanding. It takes forever and you'll never get into all the nooks and crannies. Bead blasting is the only way to go. You'll never get all these parts cleaned up without it, there will be residues and all sorts of nasty stuff that will mess up the paint work.

That's how I do my paint jobs.

http://www.digitalintrigue.net/photo_posts/parts.jpg

http://www.digitalintrigue.net/photo_posts/m4safari4.jpg

[Rik]

I have found that sanding AFTER hydrocholic acid works quite well. I have not used bead blasting, but still have a very clean result. I have only done the top and bottom plate, not the various levers and knobs.

[nobbylon]

Rik, hi, is the stuff sold over here a particular brand or just a mix the hardware stores do? thanks j

[digitalintrigue]

Yes, not to say that sanding doesn't work. It does limit the painting options.

I have found that sanding AFTER hydrocholic acid works quite well. I have not used bead blasting, but still have a very clean result. I have only done the top and bottom plate, not the various levers and knobs.

[Rik]

Rik, hi, is the stuff sold over here a particular brand or just a mix the hardware stores do? thanks j

not sure what stuff you mean? the hydrochloric acid? got a 5 liter can from Hornbach. You need the strong stuff, i think 30%.

[nikonhswebmaster]

Not true...remove the chrome and the nickel, and then use a proper primer on the brass. There are special primers made specific for brass. Or just send it to me. :)

I just go on how classic cameras are painted. Nikon nickel plated their cameras on the steel and brass parts, and put primer on the alloy parts.

Of course it all depends on what paint you are going to use, and if the paint is oxygen permeable as most classic lacquers are.

If any O2 is going to get to the surface it must be plated.

[LeicaTom]

A word of warning: DO NOT use a modeling paint, like Testors. It will never harden, no matter how long you bake it. I learned this the hard way, on my first repainting job. If you use modelling paint, you'll regret it. It does a fine job of sticking to plastic models, where it doesn't have to be very durable, but it sucks for cameras. Use an automotive grade paint. I don't know how well you will be able to match it (I kind of doubt they will have a WWII German gray at Advance Auto Parts), and you may have to mix your own. Once you have the appropriate shade of gray, thin it to 50% and apply with an air brush. Put the parts, once dried, into a box with a pair of 100-watt lightbulbs for at least 24 hours, to cure and harden the paint.

Yes, I have already discussed this about not using modeling paint, but automoblie or gun shop grade paints, the RLM Grey will have to be hand mixed and then airbrushed, we are also testing the vulcanite while the vulcanite on the old Grey cameras was also spray painted and not Grey colored and last but not least the "woodsmetal" engraving filler will be the real challenge, to get that semi off white filler to put in the engraving - I want to try to do that first before I use just a normal paintstick - I`m still waitning on the camera in the post so I can inspect it and decide what`s the first step with all the bodywork, the camera seems like it has some dents and nicks, but if it`s better than it looks, then I have to think again about the paintjob

Tom

[FallisPhoto]

Is this enamel? It just says on the can that it should be heated for some time, does not specify how long that is. So I figured 2 hours it some time.

But if needed i can put it back for more heat. It already looks and feels quite hard now to be honest.

Assuming you used an automotive grade enamel, then yes, it takes from 12 to about 24 hours. The stuff I used last says "Use low steady heat for lengthy periods of time for best results on small runs." I wanted an exact time and asked around. I didn't find one. Several automotive and camera repair websites recommended between 12 and 24 hours though.

[FallisPhoto]

As much as I hate repainted cameras, don't remove the nickel, you need it for the paint to stick. If you paint on brass the paint will not stay on for very long, since copper oxides will form and the paint will come off.

Just use a good etching primer. It will stick to brass just fine.

[nikonhswebmaster]

Just use a good etching primer. It will stick to brass just fine.

It will work fine, and in fact Nikon did is for awhile on the F, but I always disliked the yellow edges when it "brassed." I like the way nickel "brasses" much better.

I have never seen brass primers in semi-flat black, but maybe?

[FallisPhoto]

It will work fine, and in fact Nikon did is for awhile on the F, but I always disliked the yellow edges when it "brassed." I like the way nickel "brasses" much better.

I have never seen brass primers in semi-flat black, but maybe?

You might try this (yeah, I used to do gunsmithing): http://www.bosesguns.com/product_p/bir74000.htm Works well on guns, but I've never tried it on a camera. There is no dimensional change, so if it brasses, and you don't like it, you can just touch it up.

[nikonhswebmaster]

You might try this (yeah, I used to do gunsmithing): http://www.bosesguns.com/product_p/bir74000.htm Works well on guns, but I've never tried it on a camera. There is no dimensional change, so if it brasses, and you don't like it, you can just touch it up.

I have always used gun blackening agents. Of course the side effect is your neighbors (if you are in an apartment building) will think you have a lot of guns, since you will get gun catalogs.

[FallisPhoto]

I have always used gun blackening agents. Of course the side effect is your neighbors (if you are in an apartment building) will think you have a lot of guns, since you will get gun catalogs.

In my case, they'd be right. If they are looking for assault weapons and pistols to steal though, they would be awfully disappointed; most of mine are flintlocks.

[LeicaTom]

http://www.members.aol.com/Winkermeister/Leicaconversion1.jpeg

I just received the 1945 Leica IIIC K to IIIFBD conversion today
(it`s in the #393xxx series which I estimate is somewhere in the October/November/December 1945 production series - it was a Ball Bearing "Full Race/Kugellager" camera at one time, fully upgraded to IIIFBD specs -
the serial # has been photoshopped out for security reasons as always)

It`s a really nice "user" camera for sure - it has nicks and some small dent issues, but the major question is with the possible paintjob - will it work with the engraving? (I need some advice)

The engraving is very very thin and not very deep on this camera, (the pre #400000 cameras have a shallower engraving then later cameras) and during WW2 when the cameras were painted Grey, they had like a "woodsmetal" type of filler in the engraving so they stood out over the Grey paint

The camera has also been recovered (though not very good) while the original vulcanite more than likely fell off like 45+ years ago - I would consider replacing it with a Leica IIIF style vulcanite, but I don`t think that a IIIF donor body will work because the shape of the vulcanite is different - well the covering on it I don`t like now, but something that`s really close to the IIIF style would be enough for me, while this is a custom camera just for my personal shooting anyway

The rear eyepiece was also replaced with a plastic IIIF one
(I want to go back to the original IIIC Brass eyepiece * changing for pure vanity while it looks better semi/gloss black) - it`s quite possible that the viewfinder and everything inside was replaced also, while it`s very bright and crisp)

Funny but in the conversion the bottom plate was`nt switched over
(strange) but the bottom plate is like new and still has the factory serial number pencil markings on it

Speeds and all functions are deadon, just needs ton be cleaned and fresh lube and some small tweaks done, the curtains look great, so hopefully they will be no problem

I`m going to run a TEST roll through it this weekend and then think about what`s going to be done with it and the painting......the engraving and the original pattern IIIF vulcanite will be the biggest hassle if I decide to paint

Tom

PS: That lens is a late run 1936 1.5/50 Leitz Xenon, which is a perfect looking lens on this camera, we`ll see this weekend how the pair "get along" ;)

[Ken Ford]

A word of warning: DO NOT use a modeling paint, like Testors. It will never harden, no matter how long you bake it. I learned this the hard way, on my first repainting job. If you use modelling paint, you'll regret it. It does a fine job of sticking to plastic models, where it doesn't have to be very durable, but it sucks for cameras. Use an automotive grade paint. I don't know how well you will be able to match it (I kind of doubt they will have a WWII German gray at Advance Auto Parts), and you may have to mix your own. Once you have the appropriate shade of gray, thin it to 50% and apply with an air brush. Put the parts, once dried, into a box with a pair of 100-watt lightbulbs for at least 24 hours, to cure and harden the paint.


You're using the wrong kind of modeling paint.

Try Floquil or Scalecoat (original formula for each). These paints are designed to harden on brass. A properly painted brass locomotive is very difficult to scratch.

[digitalintrigue]

It`s a really nice "user" camera for sure - it has nicks and some small dent issues, but the major question is with the possible paintjob - will it work with the engraving? (I need some advice)

The engraving is very very thin and not very deep on this camera, (the pre #400000 cameras have a shallower engraving then later cameras) and during WW2 when the cameras were painted Grey, they had like a "woodsmetal" type of filler in the engraving so they stood out over the Grey paint

On the paint jobs I've done, mostly M3s, the "M3 - xxxxxx' serial number engraving is usually shallower than the 'Leica' script engraving. This is not usually a problem, unless there are dings and dents or pitting in the general area of the engravings. To fix these flaws usually requires more layers of paint, which tends to fill in the shallow engravings. This can be worked around to some degree with great effort, time and the right equipment...

If there are no such flaws that need to be fixed, with the proper spray equipment, it's possible to put on just enough paint to sufficiently cover the surface but not enough to overwhelm the serial number engravings.

I don't have a thread mount Leica of that vintage, so I don't have way to compare the engraving depth...

Not sure if that helps you. :)

[LeicaTom]

http://www.members.aol.com/Winkermeister/topplate.jpeg

I think that there`s three slight dent isssues, (that slotted shaped dent in the middle and a pin shaped one above the serial number the right top corner has a little dent as well) but I think the two top ones`s will both come out really good once the tops taken off and they can be tapped out ever so slightly

I think the nicks are the biggest problem I can see and the shallow engraving - I`m open to suggestions

Tom

[radiocemetery]

Tom,

In keeping with the age of your camera, you could approach the dent repair in the same way the old time body men did. You could flow some solder into the dents and then sand down the solder to a smooth surface. This approach assumes that you are going to take the chrome off the plates. Lead takes paint well.

[smiling gecko]

i am amazed and impressed at the level of interest and skill in repainting cameras in the rff community.

if the canon pellix i got awhle back wasn't in such good cosmetic condition (AND i could afford it) i would love to have it redone in black lacquer (?) like the EF and F-1.

...while i'm wishing, oh...a hammertone finnish for leica m6 with it's fading zinc finnish...or maybe on my mamiya6 (oops, too much plastic).

meanwhile...it's all good.

take care,

kenneth

[FallisPhoto]

I think the nicks are the biggest problem I can see and the shallow engraving - I`m open to suggestions

Tom

If you are going to paint the thing, why are the nicks a problem? Those too deep to be buffed out, you fill with lead or putty, as you would for any other kind of bodywork.

As for the engraving, It occurrs to me that maybe you could use a wax-resist method, with most paints. Fill the engraving with wax first, before painting. The wax will repel the paint. Paint the camera and let it dry very thoroughly. The paint will go everywhere except into the engraving (or anywhere else that is covered in wax). When baking the enamel, the wax will melt and run out. You could probably clean up the engraving then without too much effort, if necessary, using a dental pick (just tiny specks of paint in the engraving, not stuck very well).

[Rik]

what is the best paint (white) to be used for engravings?

[FallisPhoto]

what is the best paint (white) to be used for engravings?

Micro tools has some paint sticks made specifically for that. http://www.micro-tools.com/

[Rik]

Thanks, I'll have a look.

[LeicaTom]

I think the nicks are the biggest problem I can see and the shallow engraving - I`m open to suggestions

Tom

I`ve since decided NOT to paint this camera afterall, it`s going to stay the way it is......it`s currently out for CLA but, it will be back in action in a week or so once again

Tom

[Harry Lime]

I'm late in to the thread, but I used www.acmeplating.com to have my cameras stripped of chrome etc.