View Full Version : Black chrome or black paint for an MP
thesheffielder
10-29-2007, 07:23
I am considering buying a Leica MP on the a la carte program and have not yet decided whether to choose black chrome or black paint. Does anyone have a black chrome MP and if so how has it worn with time (photos would be useful). Any other thoughts about the pros and cons of each would be interesting.
thankyou
Mackinaw
10-29-2007, 07:37
I’ve owned a black MP for three years now (bought new). The black paint finish has proven to be very durable, with no nicks or brassing, at least so far, though I do admit to carrying the camera in a small bag while in the field and only taking it out when needed.
As much as I like the black finish, if given a choice (my dealer only had black bodies in stock) I would have gone with the chrome finish. Just a personal preference.
Jim B.
rogue_designer
10-29-2007, 07:41
If you want a black body, IMO, the black paint is the way to go.
laptoprob
10-29-2007, 08:01
Black chrome and black paint have a different look but also a different feel. The materials age differently. Black paint remains more black and feels smoother than black chrome.
My repainted M2 feels very different than the black chrome M4-2. Honestly, I prefer the feel of black paint. Even though my own painting is nowhere near Leica Paint.
But, black chrome is part of the material itself. Much tougher than any paint can ever be. Even though it does not stay as black as paint.
'all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others'...
RITskellar
10-29-2007, 08:10
I've had both, but the black paint version got sold almost immediately when I was forced to prioritize. I have two identical black chrome models, mainly because I like the more subtle and somewhat less precious feeling of the matte black. It has seen fairly heavy use, maybe a few rolls per week on average over the past 6 months, and has not shown any undue wear. At the end of the day, it's simply a subjective choice that has no real tangible significance in my humble opinion. I happen to like the black chrome, and silver chrome for that matter, more than the paint. Good luck.
bankcheck
10-29-2007, 08:11
Black chrome may hold it's value better if you are going to sell it 5 + years down the road. My 2 cents
RITskellar
10-29-2007, 08:16
Ah, one tangible little thing that I did notice in real world use, for what it's worth, is that the black paint model did feel a little nicer in my hand. The finish stays a little warmer when it's cold outside. But despite this, I still prefer the black chrome.
In fact, I prefer the colour of the black paint with the resistance of the black chrome. If I only could get the best of both worlds... I have a black paint MP and, while its finish is far more elegant than chrome, I still take great care not to scratch the surface. A black chrome camera won´t have that kind of inconvenience. A chrome camera may (just a guess) receive a higher price in the end if it shows less wear than a black paint camera with the same mileage. A brassed camera may be a beautiful thing, but I wouldn't like to buy one that may suggest some mistreatment. In the end, I am an open minded person: if I could, I would buy both. And a silver chrome one, too!
rodneyAB
10-29-2007, 11:28
my Black paint MP, less than a year old, has scrapes and scuffs, and the strap ears show brass...i did not buy it to keep it on the shelf unused and pretty...scuffs and scratches do not bother me.
BigSteveG
10-29-2007, 11:30
I have a B/C MP purchased a la carte. It is lighter due to a zinc alloy top rather than the classic brass top plate (or so I believe....I could be wrong), and I like that a lot. It's starting to lose a little of its sheen. I do tend top carry it w/ no case slung around my shoulder and will continue to do so. The look is not quite so fancy as a B/P version so I'm not so fanatical about the appearance. If you're a purist, go for the B/P. You may end up being a little timid with it. If you want a hard-wearing finish....the B/C beckons. The a la carte program is also nice if you want a low or high maginification finder.
I have a silver (chrome, 2 years old) MP and a black chrome M4-P. I prefer the black chrome look of the M4-P because it is not that shiny compared to either silver chrome or B/P. If I would have bought the MP new, it would have been the black chrome version. The M4-P shows nearly now wear except at the strap lugs where it is getting a little shiny.
I have a black paint MP which I think is just beautiful, both in looks and feel. And yes, over time there will be some brassing and other paint loss. But, it is my camera, my brassing. I don't really understand the arguments on resale value. Do you buy a new a la carte MP now with the intention to sell it again? I did not. I have no intention to ever sell it, Í'll pass it on to my kids eventually
I believe that it is easier for someone to be convinced to join the rangefinder world if the equipment he buys can be quickly resold with a minimum loss if he does not become used to the system. Naturally, it may not apply to brand new cameras, but to the used market.
Also, who can predict the future? Perhaps someone will need to sell something to raise cash for whatever reason.
i would go with chrome or black paint, just because you can get it repainted later if you want. i'm not sure if they (shintaro, crr luton) can remove black chrome.
thomasw_
10-30-2007, 10:29
I am with RitSkellar on this. His black chrome + vulkanit MP is so rugged and subtle; it is a manly man's camera body :) That said, I prefer both the silver and black chrome over the BP. Less gloss is more....or something like that, for flat matte fans.
Well either way you're getting an amazing camera so it's certainly not the hardest desician around.
My M6 is black chrome, when I get an MP (yeah right) it will probably be black chrome as well because I love the durability.
BillBlackwell
10-30-2007, 15:35
I have a B/C MP purchased a la carte. It is lighter due to a zinc alloy top rather than the classic brass top plate (or so I believe... I could be wrong)...
FWIW, your black chrome MP topcover is made of brass and your camera weighs exactly the same as any other MP produced since production started in 2003. There have been no MP topcovers made from zinc.
RITskellar
10-30-2007, 16:06
FWIW, your black chrome MP topcover is made of brass and your camera weighs exactly the same as any other MP produced since production started in 2003. There have been no MP topcovers made from zinc.
Though I don't have any technical knowledge of what the MP is or is not made from or the processes involved in their finish, I'm naively curious about your statement because my MP b/c is always colder to the touch than my MP b/p. And where the b/p model revealed a gold color after wear, my MP b/c reveals a white/silverish color.
Please expand on your thoughts, as it would be interesting to know. Thanks!
BillBlackwell
10-30-2007, 18:05
Though I don't have any technical knowledge of what the MP is or is not made from or the processes involved in their finish, I'm naively curious about your statement because my MP b/c is always colder to the touch than my MP b/p. And where the b/p model revealed a gold color after wear, my MP b/c reveals a white/silverish color.
Please expand on your thoughts, as it would be interesting to know. Thanks!
Okay. Black paint is (obviously) applied directly to the brass surface, so when the paint is gone you see gold brass.
However, the black chrome surface is a multi-layer process (Leica has used the same process from the first use of black chrome on the M5). The brass is treated with a zinc-like layer over which the black chrome covering is applied. So when the black chrome wears, you see the chrome-like layer. Give it time; ultimately, it will wear down to the brass.
The difference in feel is a product of material characteristics (paint vs. chrome).
I think the confusion lies in the fact Leica produced M6 topcovers in zinc alloy for 18-years. Zinc topcovers started (actually very late in the M4-P run) and ended with the M6.
Hope this helps.
Though I don't have any technical knowledge of what the MP is or is not made from or the processes involved in their finish, I'm naively curious about your statement because my MP b/c is always colder to the touch than my MP b/p. And where the b/p model revealed a gold color after wear, my MP b/c reveals a white/silverish color.
Please expand on your thoughts, as it would be interesting to know. Thanks!
I'm no expert on this subject, but isn't black "chrome" actually black anodizing? And if that's the case, I don't think you can anodize brass, only non-ferrous metals (those without iron) such as zinc and aluminum. Anodizing is actually a chemically produced oxidation process, similar to the rusting of ferrous metals. Anodizing would occur naturally if my bare M6 TTL were left out in the weather. But anodizing produces a natural, protective coating, that actually is etched into the top surface of the metal itself. "Hard anodizing" even makes the surface more scratch resistant that bare metal or paint. I think this might explain why the black "chrome" is more wear and scratch resistant than paint. But a true chrome finish, which I believe what the silver chrome is, consists of en electroplated finish with the element "chromium", a very hard, and even brittle finish. BTW, I don't think you can apply true chrome to a non-ferrous metal before plating it with copper or brass first.
I bought my M6 TTL last spring. It was pristine. I shoot about 2-4 rolls a week, often keeping the camera in my hand for hours, with the strap wrapped around my wrist. The right edge of the top plate, where it's rounded, is starting to show signs of an almost silvery finish, but it is very subtle.
If I had to say, paint is probably the least durable, but the prettiest. Black "chrome" or any color of anodizing (yes, they can do it in just about any color!), is the next hardest. And true chrome (silver)is by FAR the most durable from rubbing AND from scratches.
BillBlackwell
10-30-2007, 18:16
Actually, black paint on a Leica became a very popular notion after Leica began producing cameras in black chrome because of the way the cameras wear. Most find the brass under black-paint wear very pleasing (and even desirable). This encouraged Leica to produce a number of M6 black paint special edition models beginning in 2000.
Black chrome wear, however, is considered "ugly" and very undesirable by comparison.
This opinion is held by many.
endustry
10-30-2007, 18:24
This morning I would have sided with black chrome but after taking my M7 out in my shoulder bag today I somehow managed to scratch two long bright marks into the top plate simply by stuffing it into the bag. Scratches on black paint are no less easy to come by but they don't detract as much from the overall look of the camera IMHO.
I don't know how else to describe it but to me, a BP camera with a few scratches looks "used" while a black chrome camera with scratches on it looks "damaged."
BillBlackwell
10-30-2007, 18:24
... isn't black "chrome" actually black anodizing? And if that's the case, I don't think you can anodize brass, only non-ferrous metals (those without iron) such as zinc and aluminum. Anodizing is actually a chemically produced oxidation process, similar to the rusting of ferrous metals. Anodizing would occur naturally if my bare M6 TTL were left out in the weather. But anodizing produces a natural, protective coating, that actually is etched into the top surface of the metal itself. "Hard anodizing" even makes the surface more scratch resistant that bare metal or paint. I think this might explain why the black "chrome" is more wear and scratch resistant than paint. But a true chrome finish, which I believe what the silver chrome is, consists of an electroplated finish with the element "chromium", a very hard, and even brittle finish. BTW, I don't think you can apply true chrome to a non-ferrous metal before plating it with copper or brass first...
On the nose! MarkE - you summed it up nicely.
The brass is treated with a zinc-like layer over which the black chrome covering is applied.
Bill, that's very interesting. I was wondering how there could actually be black "chrome" (I hate calling it that) over a brass plate. This explains how, and also supports what I said about anodizing (black chrome) only being possible with a non-ferrous metal: they have to coat (electroplate?) the brass first with a thin layer of zinc. Just as a non-ferrous metal, such as zinc or aluminum, can't be covered with (true) chrome until it's first coated with a metal such as copper or brass.
i don't like black chrome on leicas, but i once saw a black chrome canon 7 that looked HOT. it was all silvery black.
i once saw a black chrome canon 7 that looked HOT. it was all silvery black.
I'm familar with the look you're referring to, but I'm not sure how it's done. I think it's actually a REAL chrome finish, but I would like to know how the black is integrated into the chromium. I agree, it looks very nice, but I still like the look of black paint the best.
Vincenzo Maielli
10-31-2007, 01:30
I know that the black chrome, introduced with the Leica M5 and CL, was used in the last M4 prodution (1974-1975), the M4-2, the M4-P, in all versions of the M6 and in the M7 currently available.
The new MP employ the old black paint system, that remember the black paint of the Leica M3, M2 and M4. Is very nice to see, but is also very very prone to scratches. My MP is silver chrome, to avoid this problem.
Ciao.
Vincenzo
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