Buyer Experiences with Kurland Photo in NYC?

[dcsang]

Folks..

in my constant hunt for an M8, and trying to justify spending that much money, I've noted that Kurland Photo has a number of "used" Demos online @ Ebay.

Has anyone ever dealt with this store? If so.. what are they like?

Cheers
Dave

[retow]

Folks..

in my constant hunt for an M8, and trying to justify spending that much money, I've noted that Kurland Photo has a number of "used" Demos online @ Ebay.

Has anyone ever dealt with this store? If so.. what are they like?

Cheers
Dave

Bought my M8 plus 28 f2.8 asph from them in January and everything went fast and smooth. Overall, a positive experience. Re availability of M8 and pricing, have a look at Popflash's webpage.

[Ben Z]

Eli Kurland used to be the manager of Wall St. Camera until they closed, then he went on his own as an authorized Leica dealer. His first store was not far from ground zero and everything in it was destroyed by soot on 9/11. He re-opened a fancier shop. I have not bought from him myself and don't know a lot of people personally who have, but I never heard a bad word about him either. If you're getting an official Leica Code-U/demo, it would come with a 1-yr warranty through Leica, so you are fairly well protected I would think.

I've probably bought most of my used Leica stuff from KEH (who are an authorized Leica dealer BTW) in the last few years. I got my M8 from Tony Rose/Popflash and I can recommend him highly. He has a customer-service ethic that I haven't quite found with other well-known Leica dealers since Jim Kuehl retired.

[dcsang]

Thanks guys..

I would concur with Tony - merely because I have dealt with him for gear in the past (my 35 ZM biogon).

The Kurland pricing just is so tempting.

I'll look at Tony's offerings again - I can get one locally brand new for $5,000 CDN but saving that extra $550 on a "slightly used" one means a lot when it comes to paying taxes.

Dave

[Mackinaw]

A good 10+ years back, I dealt a lot with Eli when my employer asked me to coordinate the purchase of a few Rollei 6003 cameras and several lenses. Never had any problems with any of our several purchases.

Jim B.

[nikonhswebmaster]

Eli Kurland used to be the manager of Wall St. Camera until they closed, then he went on his own as an authorized Leica dealer. His first store was not far from ground zero and everything in it was destroyed by soot on 9/11. He re-opened a fancier shop. I have not bought from him myself and don't know a lot of people personally who have, but I never heard a bad word about him either. If you're getting an official Leica Code-U/demo, it would come with a 1-yr warranty through Leica, so you are fairly well protected I would think.

Actually he was co-owner with Andy Czegledi. Wall Street Camera suffered terribly after 9/11 and just never recovered.

Eli is a really enthusiastic guy, who will support his regular customers to the nth degree. Just to be open, he is a pal of mine.

He is one of the last of the personal dealers left, attempting to carry on the tradition of Ken Hansen Photographic in NYC. He is located in lower Manhattan next door to the Leica gallery.

[endustry]

Tamarkin has a couple certified used bodies as well.

http://www.tamarkin.com/catalog/products/leica/leicamcam.html

[pphuang]

I purchased a lens from him a few months back - the description was accurate, and the transaction went smoothly without any problems.

[Steve Beyer]

I would not hesitate for a minute to purchase the camera from Kurland

[bherman]

Eli is a good guy. His equipment is first rate. Even better, if you have a problem, he'll make it right.

Brad

[bluepenguin]

Let's see... Kurland...

Yes, I have purchased Tri-Elmar 28-35-50 from Kurland Photo around at $1300.

The lens was arrived and it was in awesome condition.

You bet, I give them a positive feedback.

[Mike Richards]

Same experience as retow. I bought M8 and 28mm f2.8 from Kurland in August. Everything perfect.

[dshfoto]

Kurland's store is just down the hall from the Leica Photo Gallery in NYC.
I have purchased a number of minor items there, and the personal are always professional, polite, knowledgable and helpful.
I consider it one of the 3 or 4 high-end, camera botiques in NYC.
Any used gear that I have seen in the store is always of the highest quality.
Kurland also has a studio facility on the same floor that they rent out by the day for photo shoots.

[nikonhswebmaster]

Eli is a good guy outside of the store, always cheerful and polite. But he really takes care of his customers because he NEEDS them, and acknowledges it, unlike bigger stores that act like they could care less.

One of the reasons I have always liked B&H is that they want you back as a customer, so while often helpless to make things better, they do try.

[DaveB]

I spent 2k for an expensive lens at Kurland's eBay store last spring.

Lens was in perfect shape, very fast email and phone confirmation, quick delivery. What's not to love?

I shop his site frequently. The eBay inventory is most frequently updated I think.

Haven't visited his store in NYC yet, but wouldn't hesitate for a minute to contact him if looking for something special.

Those demo M8's look like a good deal to me.

Kurland has that most special commodity in business: a good reputation.

[ERV]

I was in the shop last month and they had just received about 15 demo M8's, chrome and black all boxed up and ready to go.
Eli wasn't there, however the person I spoke t said they would be gone in less than a week.
Its a first rate shop IMO.

[Ben Z]

Actually he was co-owner with Andy Czegledi. Wall Street Camera suffered terribly after 9/11 and just never recovered.

Interesting, I thought he was just the manager. Eli was out of Wall St. and had opened his own shop before 9/11, I know that.

He is located in lower Manhattan next door to the Leica gallery.

Sounds like Tamarkin's former digs?

[Thardy]

Interesting, I thought he was just the manager. Eli was out of Wall St. and had opened his own shop before 9/11, I know that.



Sounds like Tamarkin's former digs?

It's funny but as I read previous posts about "Eli" , I wondered if it was the same Eli from Wall Street Cameras years ago.

[StuartR]

I will add my piece too...he has a very good selection of Rollei 6000 stuff. I have not really found his prices to be lowest, but he is a very nice guy and takes care of the customers. By the way, all my dealings with him have been in person...face to face. He has a really nice shop/showroom. I think he is doing a lot of medium format digital business these days as well.

[nikonhswebmaster]

I will add my piece too...he has a very good selection of Rollei 6000 stuff. I have not really found his prices to be lowest, but he is a very nice guy and takes care of the customers. By the way, all my dealings with him have been in person...face to face. He has a really nice shop/showroom. I think he is doing a lot of medium format digital business these days as well.

Eli has always had a love for Rollei (that I just went along with as a 35 guy). We put a lot of Rollei on his Wall Street web site, and he was always trying to have me try them out. His prices work out over the long run, if you buy from him, he will take trades, and find stuff for you no one else will bother with. He has a long relationship with worldwide Rollei dealers, so he can find equipment.

The images on your web site are beautiful by the way...

[nikonhswebmaster]

Interesting, I thought he was just the manager. Eli was out of Wall St. and had opened his own shop before 9/11, I know that.

Sounds like Tamarkin's former digs?

He was physically out the door before 9/11, but was still an owner. The new digs were in fact the former home of Tamarkin, but Eli threw out the oriental rug look, and opted for a more SOHO look.

[MannyS]

Dave - I purchased one of the demo M8s from Kurland Photo last week. Its rangefinder wasn't calibrated correctly. I spoke to Eli, and he quickly said he will replace the body. I sent the M8 back, and received another M8 demo from Kurland 3 days later. It's perfect. Great service from Eli, and his staff is also very responsive. Can't ask for any better service!

[DaveB]

There's no better annuity than a loyal customer base.

[StuartR]

Eli has always had a love for Rollei (that I just went along with as a 35 guy). We put a lot of Rollei on his Wall Street web site, and he was always trying to have me try them out. His prices work out over the long run, if you buy from him, he will take trades, and find stuff for you no one else will bother with. He has a long relationship with worldwide Rollei dealers, so he can find equipment.

The images on your web site are beautiful by the way...

Thanks very much! He certainly does seem to have Rollei stuff that other dealers don't seem to have. When I lived in Brooklyn, I liked being able to just hop on the subway and be there in a half an hour or so. Nothing beats the convenience of being a short ride from a major dealer in case you want to check something out.

[john_nyc]

I bought a new old stock pre-asph 50 lux there about 5 months ago.
Except for getting slimed by someone powerwashing the building across the street on my way there, it was a 100% troublefree transaction.

Leica even accepted the Passport warranty as was promised by the store.

All good!

John

[johnalex141r]

Dave; I purchased an M8 from Kurland Photography back August/September and had it shipped to Ottawa.

It came mostly as advertised, however:

1) It took a while to get it registered; I called Mr. Kurland, who gave me a number in Leica (Robert Fisk). Never got through, but talked to a Shirley, filled in the card, went on a 16 day vacation, and when I tried on returning, I got the registration done just fine. (my 2 free filters came no problems)

2) the Capture One LE software I never got a valid key for. The Capture One help people told me "sorry". That's not a big loss; a few minutes googling showed me others. (I now use Aperture, although iPhoto also works, as well as other RAW processors)

Would I do it again?
- I'll admit that there were a few hours followup trying to get "things sorted out" and "delivered from UPS". I did not appreciate this, although, for the delivery, see below.
- Everything was in the box, although admittedly one could tell that it was opened by others. So what?.
- Mr. Kurland was nice on the phone; seemed helpful. Would probably have helped with the Capture One key if I had cared enough to press him.
- The camera has been flawless. It had about 1,000 clicks on the shutter (from the EXIF data). No "oil spots" that others say appear in the first 1000 clicks; obviously the sensor was well cleaned before I got it.
- new battery; lcd screen with new pulloff cover protector; it looked like a new camera.

Note that it'll come in UPS. These guys charged quite a bit for "customs clearance" and lost my camera for almost a week in and around Ottawa. Eventually my wife and I went for a two hour round trip to go to the UPS depot and retrieve it.

You may want to check out www.leitaboutique.com in Montreal. The Voigtlander lens prices seem, IMHO, to be pretty good. You never know... they might have one without the UPS headaches. (never even been in the LeicaBoutique, nor purchased anything from them - just a url that looks interesting)

In summary, yes, I have purchased from Kurland. I would do so again. Am I happy I did? In the end, you forget the hassles; the savings went into Voigtlander lenses, and both my wife and I are exceedingly happy with the results.

JohnS, Ottawa.

Folks..

in my constant hunt for an M8, and trying to justify spending that much money, I've noted that Kurland Photo has a number of "used" Demos online @ Ebay.

Has anyone ever dealt with this store? If so.. what are they like?

[nikonhswebmaster]

Having a brother who has had a farm in Canada for many years, I am always amazed that anyone orders outside of Canada if they can help it. Shipping to Canada is better than it used to be, but Canadian customs is a nightmare.

Canadians always blame it on UPS, but there is no problem with UPS in Europe, at least I have never had any, and I have shipped a lot of cameras to Holland, England, and Hong Kong. Only Canada.

But everything that can go wrong in shipping has gone wrong to Canada.

That "customs clearance" goes to a Canadian broker, without UPS and FedEX hiring a broker the packages would never arrive, customs would literally keep them for months, it has happened to me using mail.

[photogdave]

With the possible shipping problems in mind, I'm seeing M8s in Canada now selling new at the same price as U.S. If you buy from out-of-province you save PST.

[dcsang]

Thanks again for all the information and updates guys.

I really appreciate it.

I still haven't decided if I will buy one from Kurland as of yet.
There are a number of drawbacks but there are a lot of positives too.

Positives:
Firstly, I've called Kurland and spoke with, I think, Eli. Helpful and very nice. Also told me that the price on these will be going up (like everything else Leica sells).
Secondly, he couldn't tell me exactly actuations on any of the Demo cameras - he receives them like this from Leica (he says) so there's no way of him telling the actuations. I would assume they're not very high though.
Thirdly, the price is really good; especially now with the Canadian Loonie being so strong.
Finally, it's digital - I am so accustomed to the "workflow" I have going with Lightroom that I really think I can almost ditch my film ways.


Negatives:

1. UPS - ugh.. I have a UPS Store Mailbox for myself / business and even still UPS has "issues" delivering their packages to their own stores. It must be the worst company to use for shipping. You would think that USPS or Canada Post would be the worst but then you'd be wrong.

2. All The "Problems" with the M8 - Sure we all know about the whole "magenta" thing and green blob thing but then I read about camera lockups, batteries being unable to be released, the camera shoots in 16bit but writes in 8bit (so why even bother with 16bit), only takes 2GB (mostly) SD cards, AWB is not as accurate as we'd like etc. etc. All of this concerns me when I'm spending that much money on a body; even if it is a Leica. I really would like to try out the M8 but based on everything I keep reading it looks like it's a white elephant. I know there are a lot of folks who are happy with theirs and while I do realize that there's no "perfect" camera I just cringe at the thought that I spend the money and I really don't see any benefit for me outside of the fact that it's a digital camera.

3. Buying Used - It's a demo; sure it comes with a warranty but it's already been used by various folks. I'm not too concerned about this point other than the fact that I won't know, until I get the camera, just how many actuations it's gone through.

4. Buying from a Non-Local source - Again, this has got to do with being able to return the camera to a dealer locally and have some peace of mind. I know I can get the camera locally, brand new, at a reasonable price ($5,000 CDN) but saving over $1,000 initially is awfully attractive especially considering point number two above.

I don't know.. overall.. I really want to be excited about investing in an M8 but I also am extremely hesitant about it due to the above listed issues. I do know that my intent would be for it to be a B&W camera - and I do know that the M8 apparently excels at this.

I guess, because of the lifecycle of the bodies I've seen that occurs with Canon/Nikon, I wonder if the moment I do decide to fork over the dough that Leica announces some miraculous upgrade or such.

*sigh*.. so indecisive...

Thanks,
Dave

[photogdave]

If you can earn a return off the camera then go for it. If it's just for your hobby but you've got tonnes of money to blow (I know you don't!), then go for it. Otherwise try and forget about it and enjoy shooting film!
That's how I feel about the M8 anyway!

[nikonhswebmaster]

I have been endlessly struggling with buying an M8, and I can buy one at cost (although that is not actually much of a savings).

Even though I am friends with Eli, and know Roger Horn personally, they cannot protect me from the unknown pitfalls of the M8.

But still I want one... go figure.

Regarding how many "actuations on any of the Demo cameras" these cameras probably entered the system though returns, or from trade shows, or dealers. In order to qualify as a demo the camera must never have been sold retail, otherwise Leica sells them as refurbished.

[kenn]

I recently bought an M8 there (demo / ebay) and could not be happier with the experience. Great service, nice folks on the phone and M8 arrived within 48 hours. Excellent experience .

[KoNickon]

I only know of Kurland's store from ads in Shutterbug, and I have to say the prices make me gulp. But then, I'm a bottom feeder.

Shutter "actuations" -- since when do we need to use such a fancy word? Sounds like creeping computerese to me. What's wrong with "cycles"?

[nikonhswebmaster]

I only know of Kurland's store from ads in Shutterbug, and I have to say the prices make me gulp. But then, I'm a bottom feeder.

Shutter "actuations" -- since when do we need to use such a fancy word? Sounds like creeping computerese to me. What's wrong with "cycles"?

How about the traditional term, exposures? Actuation should only apply in a testing environment.

[emraphoto]

hey dave... i am on the cusp of buying and i MAY drive down to nyc next week to buy at kurland. i'm not entirely sure that's the route i'm going but it's looking more and more like it! if i do i'll let you know how it unfolds... i had an ad on photo.net and a fella from toronto emailed and said he had two for sale. if you want i could contact him and make aninquiry for you.

as far as canadiens "blaming ups" for anything... well let me tell you, ups is the shiftiest bunch of shifty folks i have ever dealt with. i have collected and passed leica's through canadian customs myself... in person, AT canada customs. never have they charged me a brokerage fee, ever. taxes yes... brokerage fee's? no. there currently is a class action lawsuit in canada alleging wrong doing by ups and it's "brokerage fee's" in which canada customs has stated that NONE of the "brokerage fee's" collected go to ANY customs agents. some have alleged that the "brokerage fee" has run more than 50% of the items total cost.
apparently there is one starting in quebec and ontario... shifty buggers that ups!

[nikonhswebmaster]

in which canada customs has stated that NONE of the "brokerage fee's" collected go to ANY customs agents. some have alleged that the "brokerage fee" has run more than 50% of the items total cost.
apparently there is one starting in quebec and ontario... shifty buggers that ups!

The reason they call them brokerage fees is because they are paid to the broker, thus the name. If you act as the broker, then pay yourself. UPS acts as the broker in most cases, but you are free to hire an outside broker.

If the value of the item is low enough brokerage fees could be in excess of the items' value since the fees have little to do with the value of the item being brokered. You are paying someone to pay the customs fees, to Canada, for you, to act as your agent. The brokerage fee applies only on items shipped by ground, want to avoid it? Use standard air UPS service, where it is built into the price.

The brokerage fees are entirely optional, you can elect to do it yourself if you want to. The shipper must mark on the package that you will take care of clearing customs.

Here is what you then need to do according to several web sites in CA:

You'll need to get the waybill from UPS.Once you get the waybill, head to customs to pay any duty or taxes that are owing.Make sure you also have an invoice or something to prove the value of your delivery.After that, it's back to UPS to pick up your package.


Seems a lot of work for $30~$50 but if you are retired or have a time to spare it may be worth the effort.

UPS is great as a broker for expensive collectibles. They are fast, I have never had them take more than a few hours. I have had USPS brokers take SIX months to clear an item.

[emraphoto]

perhaps ups should A/ charge an amount in the same ballpark as other "brokers" and B/ offer full disclosure re: said fee's upfront. i certainly don"t want to turn this into a UPS thread but 2 class action lawsuits require a few folks with some credible "issues" with UPS to be filed.
http://www.classaction.ca/content/actions/ups.asp
http://www.epinions.com/bsrv-Office_Services-Shipping-All-UPS_Standard_to_Canada/sec_~opinion_list/display_~reviews/pp_~1/pa_~1#list
http://www.graphiccare.ca/blog/?p=17#comment-2
http://www.thegatesofdawn.ca/wordpress/posts/2006/12/10/ups-brokerage-fee-class-action/

[nikonhswebmaster]

These are the rates, I took them right from UPS CA. They are simple to understand. They are available by calling any UPS CA office.

For shipments arriving via UPS Standard service (ground)
$ 0.00 to $ 20.00 FREE
$ 20.01 to $ 40.00 $ 7.00
$ 40.01 to $ 100.00 $ 19.45
$ 100.01 to $ 200.00 $ 29.00
$ 200.01 to $ 350.00 $ 38.92
$ 350.01 to $ 500.00 $ 43.73
$ 500.01 to $ 750.00 $ 49.73
$ 750.01 to $ 1,000.00 $ 55.58
$ 1,000.01 to $ 1,250.00 $ 61.58
$ 1,250.01 to $ 1,600.00 $ 65.46
$ 1,600.01 to $ 5,000.00 $ 69.03
Each additional $ 1,000.00 $ 5.38

For shipments arriving via UPS Worldwide Express
FREE

[mw_uio]

I usually do not say this but today I will, WTF does UPS and their service have to do with "Buyer Experiences with Kurland Photo in NYC?" which this thread is about!!!

Mark
Quito, EC

[emraphoto]

well mark, sometimes conversations branch off... that's the nature of conversations.

[dcsang]

Hey guys..

Thanks :)
I have my own opinions on UPS.
I have a mailbox @ a UPS Store that's literally a 2 minute walk from my place.
I have this because Canada Post continually tried to FOLD my subscription to LensWork to fit into my little 4x4" mailbox at my condo.
Now, I've ordered items from B&H and shipped via UPS Expedited (in order to avoid the brokerage fees) and it got to the UPS store "ok".
I've also had items from other retail outlets sent to the UPS store mailbox and the UPS folks can't even locate their OWN store - even after a phone call to them and explaining that the address is a UPS STORE.

So I figure, UPS are only as good as the drivers they hire. At least that's how I look at it imho.

Because of the high brokerage charges though, I would prefer to pay for expedited shipping. If the retailer only offers ground shipping (because that's the deal they've got with UPS), then I refuse to buy from them.

As for the M8, John, thanks for the offer :) but I'm going to hold out for now on the M8. I want to see where Leica goes from here. Right now the M8 and the R-D1 are the only games in town but I can sit tight for the time being.

Mark, APERTURE PRIORITY !!! :D

Cheers
Dave

[mw_uio]

Dave, ya - "Aperture Priority", I hope to see all you guys next year sometime :D

Mark

[nikonhswebmaster]

I usually do not say this but today I will, WTF does UPS and their service have to do with "Buyer Experiences with Kurland Photo in NYC?" which this thread is about!!!

Mark
Quito, EC

UPS is the likely shipper to Canada, and it would seem that the fee for the shipment would be 69 dollars if sent ground. I suppose the Canadians are asking if the savings over buying the item in the US rather than in Canada would make up for the 69 bucks? Who knows? A large Scottish population?


Because of the high brokerage charges though, I would prefer to pay for expedited shipping. If the retailer only offers ground shipping (because that's the deal they've got with UPS), then I refuse to buy from them.


I have never run into a situation where ground is the only way EXCEPT on heavy items. I shipped a tele Sigma (800 as I remember at about 50 pounds) to my brother in Canada and it was just too heavy to be practical for air. Even with the brokerage fee it was much cheaper than sending it by air, so it went ground. I paid the fee however from the US, and had B&H handle it. I cannot imagine a legitimate business that will not work with you on shipping. The other alternative is to have items shipped by from a personal address as gifts, by a relative, they pass through duty free every time.

[emraphoto]

i'll make sure i bring it to the next social dave... test your resolve a bit. nudge nudge wink wink