silent fixed RF [Archive] - Rangefinderforum.com

meste

10-07-2007, 22:38

IGMeanwell

10-07-2007, 22:51

Hexar AF has a silent mode

but my Yashica GS is close to silent, just a slight click of the shutter and then the subtle whine of the film advance

meste

10-07-2007, 22:53

Hexar AF has a silent mode

but my Yashica GS is close to silent, just a slight click of the shutter and then the subtle whine of the film advance

thanks, do you happen to know if Yashica GS is more silent than Canonet GQ17?

meste

rxmd

10-07-2007, 23:14

thanks, do you happen to know if Yashica GS is more silent than Canonet GQ17?
I'd be surprised if it is.

With this type of camera you always have two different sounds. One is the shutter; there is not much of a difference in noise between leaf shutters on various fixed-lens rangefinder cameras IMHO. Or the difference is probably at least as much between individual cameras of the same model as between camera models. They are very quiet. From experience with my own QL17, in real-world situations nobody more than one or two meters away is going to notice the shutter sound unless they are looking at you and expecting to be photographed. In that case it doesn't make a difference anyway if they hear it or not.

And there is the sound of the film advance. The nice thing is that you have control over when and where you advance the film.

Just wait for your QL17 and try it out outside on a street. If that's not silent enough for the situations where you usually take pictures, I don't think there will be many fixed lens rangefinders which will solve your problem. In that case, I would think of getting a TLR, such as a Rolleicord or something, where the film advance is noiseless and the camera is usually not held at eye (and ear) level.

Philipp

douwe

10-07-2007, 23:40

I own quite some fixed lens rangefinders:
canonet ql17 gIII
konica auto S2
yashica electro 35 GX and CC
olympus 35 SP
rollei XF 35
fujica compact deluxe

The most silent one is the CC because it has only few aperture blades and shutter blades I reckon. After that the yashica GX is very smooth, but the film advance is quite loud on both the yashicas. The canonet is not bad at all. Although the other cameras listed above all have better lenses.

Cheers,
Douwe

papasnap

10-08-2007, 00:42

Hi,

I am waiting for a Canonet GQ17 to arrive from ebay which I got because I am looking for a silent RF

What people from their experience can propose for another RF, even more silent than the Canonet.

thanks,
meste

Konica Hexar AF, for sure. It's very very quiet, even when not in "silent" mode. In silent mode, the shutter/film advance are so inaudible that I was never sure if I'd actually even taken a photo, unless I looked at the frame counter.

In silent mode the AF motor still emits a very low whirr as it focuses the lens, but this is very quiet, and you'd be hard pressed to find a situation where this would actually be disruptive - in most cases, the listener would probably have to be within or near the minimum focus distance of the lens in order to actually hear it.

ltketch

10-08-2007, 02:56

I have a Minolta 7Sii and its seems very quiet to the point that when outside I have to tell myself "trust that it actually did work", but I can't compare it to the QL17 having never used one!

nzeeman

10-08-2007, 04:09

i dont think you need something more silent than ql17. it is really silent camera. sometimes even i dont know if i took the photo or not.

pesphoto

10-08-2007, 05:32

I think the XA is the most silent one of them all. Actually, you cant even hear the shutter go off with it up to your eye.

jlw

10-08-2007, 07:26

I have a Minolta 7Sii and its seems very quiet to the point that when outside I have to tell myself "trust that it actually did work", but I can't compare it to the QL17 having never used one!

I'd second this nomination. All the leaf-shutter compact 35s are fairly unobtrusive compared to, say, a motorized SLR of the '80s. But of the ones I've used -- which include the QL17, Konica Auto S2 and S3, and Olympus 35 SP in addition to the Minolta Hi-Matic 7s2 -- I'd say the 7s2 was the most quiet of the group, and the Olympus was the least quiet.

I'd also say subjectively that the 7s2 is quieter than an M-series Leica, the Olympus is a bit noisier, and the others are roughly a tie.

Caveats:

Of course they all make slightly different kinds of noise, and because of this one might be more or less obtrusive than another depending on the situation.

I wouldn't categorize any of them as "silent" -- if you're shooting in a quiet room, people nearby will be able to hear the click. I don't know if the Hexar AF's vaunted "silent" mode is really silent either, having never used one.

Also note that I'm talking about shooting at typical hand-held speeds. If you're making long exposures, an electronic-shutter camera such as one of the Yashicas might be quieter, because it lacks the buzzing gear train of a mechanical shutter.

All of which goes to show that when it comes to which camera is quietest, there's more to it than meets the ear...

Finder

10-08-2007, 07:35

One one can hear my Hexar Silver when I take a picture.

Poptart

10-11-2007, 13:18

I think the XA is the most silent one of them all. Actually, you cant even hear the shutter go off with it up to your eye.
I second. Sometimes mine goes off accidentally (b/c of the electromagnic release) and I'm not sure it has fired until I try winding the flm.

Pherdinand

10-11-2007, 13:36

the canonet has a more silent film wind/shutter cock than the yashica g,gs,gsn,...
BUT
the canonet has a mechanical shutter and at speeds below 1/15 you can hear the buzz, while the yashica's electronic shutter just produces two very very faint clicks. No buzz.
Side note: these two faint clicks can be at half a minute distance from each other ;) while the canonet only goes down to 1/4 second.

eli griggs

10-11-2007, 13:48

Olympus XA and the Yashica GS/GTN in that order. You might look at the zone focus Olympus XA2 as well.

Eli

Trius

10-11-2007, 17:56

Olympus LC (and I assume the LE) is very quiet.

meste

10-11-2007, 22:20

thanks, so many useful info here

charjohncarter

10-18-2007, 06:55

This is very quiet when releasing the shutter, maybe the quietest I've ever heard. But cocking the film advance is probably the noisiest I've ever heard.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2262/1617570848_7628fd268b.jpg?v=0

cmedin

10-18-2007, 07:37

My Hi-Matic 11 is stupidly quiet, to the point where you're questioning whether it actually fired or not.

meste

10-18-2007, 07:58

tajart

10-18-2007, 08:08

do i recall that in stealth mode on the hexar af, that the film advance can be delayed by keeping your finger on the shutter release? i seem to remember someone here mentioning this, who in sensitive photo situations would keep the button depressed and move the camera behind his back or put inside his jacket to further muffle the film advance.
i was taking a portrait of an artist in front of her work and she tried to anticipate when i was going to shoot (Leica IIIf)- she was a bit frustrated when i told her i had already taken 3 shots.
quiet is nice but less vibration is really helpful.

Mike R

10-18-2007, 09:43

I have owned the Canon QL17 in the past as well as the Minolta 7, 7s, 9 and 7sII. By far my favorites have been the Minolta series of cameras. The 7sII is smaller, like the Canon, and whisper quiet. In my opinion the Minolta glass is better than that of the Canon. I may have had a lemon, but I like the image quality from the Minolta series better. The 7, 7s, and 9 cameras are bigger, but can be had for $20-30 including shipping, so you really aren't taking much of a financial risk by trying them out. I own three different models of Canon SLR's and love them. but I feel that the best kept secret in fixed lens rangefinders are the Minoltas.

Have fun
Mike

buzzardkid

10-18-2007, 13:48

One one can hear my Hexar Silver when I take a picture.
That's true by itself already, but the best part is, the film advance in the Hexar can be 'stalled'.

Just take the shot, and keep the shutter button depressed with your finger. It will not advance the film as long as you do (release your finger when you have taken the camera down, nobody will hear it for sure)!

Using a Hexar like this is as silent as it gets.

Furthermore, the Hexar AF has a matrix metering pattern, but when used in Manual, has a spot metering of only 4 degrees. Just set the aperture you desire, and select the appropriate shutter speed with the + and - buttons in Manual. It's really great to have a choice when it really matters.

buzzardkid

10-18-2007, 13:53

what camera is it?
That is a Petri 7 or 7S.

I've owned it in the past and second both remarks: it is silent when shot, but hardly when advanced. I cannot recall it's lens though, maybe charjohncarter can help out there?

peterm1

10-18-2007, 14:02

Those leaf shutter cameras leave Leica and every other camera for dead when it comes to quietness of the shutter. I once had a Voightlander Prominent and it was almost inaudible even to the user. (Off topic, it was a beautifully made camera BTW but had an odd and somewhat impractical design with only three lenses in its system, so eventually I sold it to buy an M4-P)

jvr

10-18-2007, 14:20

That's true by itself already, but the best part is, the film advance in the Hexar can be 'stalled'.

Just take the shot, and keep the shutter button depressed with your finger. It will not advance the film as long as you do (release your finger when you have taken the camera down, nobody will hear it for sure)!

Using a Hexar like this is as silent as it gets.

Furthermore, the Hexar AF has a matrix metering pattern, but when used in Manual, has a spot metering of only 4 degrees. Just set the aperture you desire, and select the appropriate shutter speed with the + and - buttons in Manual. It's really great to have a choice when it really matters.

I second that. The Hexar AF is the quietest camera I ever used, when in stealth mode. The ability to postpone winding is really great. In stealth mode, I'd say the Hexar makes probably less noise winding than my Leica M3 DS. By hand...

I think the Hexar has a simples CW pattern and not Matrix but that doesn't take the utility out of the spot. Moreover, the Hexar lens is a wonderful 35mm, probably the 35mm I like better (and I own/ed several, from the Leica 35 'Cron ASPH to the CV 35/1.2 Nokton). It's incredibly detailed and sharp but not clinical, contrast is very good, bokeh lovely, etc.

I have lots of very low light shots that probably I couldn't get with any other camrea, like the one below (taken inside a Barcelona church, with a 100ASA slide film. Please notice the shadow detail the Hexar resolves...): the praying man never noticed I took his photograph.

Anyway, I feel the Hexar AF does not qualify as a rangefinder, it does not have one... :)

wgerrard

10-18-2007, 14:23

jvr

10-18-2007, 23:06

My XA is definitely not silent. The shutter is quiet, but definitely audible.

That said... I appreciate a quiet camera, but if the purpose of a quiet camera is to avoid clueing people into the fact that you just took a picture of them, isn't that possibility blown away because they've just seen you hold a camera to your face that's pointed in their direction?

If you are far enough away from someone so that they don't hear the shutter, how likely are they to notice you at all?

Conversely, if you want to get so close to people that you want a silent camera, aren't you also so close that you are quite obvious?

...Yours for not making a fetish out of quite cameras.

Well, it looks like that you may have a point, but the fact is that it just does not work that way, most of times, at least in my experience. Yes, if you are far enough away, no need for a quiet camera. But no need for a RF too, probably: you'll be working with a long, fast tele and the best tool for it would be a SLR, probably (paparazzi do it all the time).

On the other hand, if you are photographing people next to you (probably using something on the range from 28 to 50), camera noise is much more of a concern than it seems. Most people (either known people or strangers) are aware of you being around with a camera in your eye, of course, and react to that. People you know tend to "pose" for the camera, people you don't know tend to turn around, step aside or signal, in some way, that they don't want to be in the picture. In some countries, like Tunisia, they will even be very verbal about it, a friend of mine almost got stoned there for taking a few pictures... :)

But with a very silent camera, they don't get audible feedback to _when_ you take the picture (with the Hexar, sometimes even you don't!) and, after a while, go on with their "normal" activities, especially if you are not pointing the camera directly on them (and with something around a 28-35, that's what I'll be doing). For people you are with, that usually means stop "posing" and for people you don't know, they go on with their business.

Most people, when they see me with a camera in my eye, around them really expect to 1) see a flash and 2) hear a shutter noise. When none of this happens, thay probably thinking I'm just fooling around with the camera :) or I'm not dangerous (reporter!), since I don't have a flash and/or a big, noisy camera.

Photographing people you don't know, at least for me, falls into two categories:

1) sometimes I'll ask people for permission to photograph them and it's going to be a posed shot. It does not matter what I'm carrying (I've photographed people with my 6x17 Fotoman and that's not a discreet camera, I assure you!). Probably, I'll get their name and address and send them back a photo.

2) sometimes, I don't ask for permission. Then I'll just hang around, most of the times with the camera in my eye, not pointing to them directly. I'll take a few shots and after a while, people will relax and go on with their activities (or just turn around and get away, sometimes it happens). If this is the option, having a very quiet camera helps, at least in my experience. The worst approach is using a big camera, flash, tele (people will see you are pointing the camera directly to them) and, worst of all, giving them a clue that you took a picture and it matters (ie, camera noise, taking the camera off your eye and stare directly to the people, or even worse, do all that and check the histogram on the LCD... :)).

The shot I posted is from a series of 11 shots. The man was aware of me and probably knew I was taking pictures. But he was not the main subject (that's a 35mm and he is very much in the corner), I carried no flash (and believe me it was dark) and I just kept the camera in my eye, just moving around and pointing in several directions. As usual, he probably got fed up wating for a photograph to be taken (no clues!) and just went on doing his stuff.

Sorry if this is becoming a bit off topic now, but the reaction I get from people I photograph definitely depends on the camera I'm using and the way I use it... And that includes shutter and motor / winding noise.

That said, I don't loose sleep over it, either. Although I have to admit I was (and still am) a bit frustrated with the shutter noise that emanates from my new Leica M8 (people DO turn around in a church!) and I feel VERY tempted to dust off my Hexar, load it with film and use it... ;)

wgerrard

10-19-2007, 04:24

charjohncarter

10-19-2007, 07:30

Meste and CLE-RF, this is a Petri 7s as CLE-RF pointed out, it came with a Petri f2.8 45mm lens. I bought it last month ($9.95) because I had a Petri 7 in 1963. So, it was for fun. It has turned out to be great. It has needle match on the top so you can pre-meter (also one in the finder), and you can, with your index finger while viewing, adjust the f-stop. There are no f-stop clicks so it is very easy. The lens was a surprise.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1193/1296454608_9626ba8e4a.jpg?v=0

and see a blowup at: http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=634354#post634354

jvr

10-23-2007, 13:02

I take your point, jvr. Very nicely put. Admittedly, I have little experience in anything resembling street or 'people' photography. I live in deepest suburbia where the only people on the streets are stray joggers and the biggest crowds are inside the malls and at middle school soccer matches.

Well, thanks! To be honest, I've never rationalized it like this, the thread made me think about why I still love the Hexar so much for this kind of photos and my Leica M8 let's me down a wee little bit! :)

Happy shooting!