View Full Version : Overcoming fear
navilluspm
10-02-2007, 17:55
Dear Mr. Pierce,
I love taking pictures, and I love looking at street photography. I am somewhat of a novice. I want to get into street photography, but I am afraid. Everysingle time I attempt it, something bad happens. Eg. My first attempt: Walking downtown, a security guard from Northwestern Mutual yelled at me for taking a picture of a garbage can that was on their steps - claiming that the Northwestern logo would be in the picture and it would be copyright infringment. (And I am not kidding about his excuse).
My second attempt was at an open air mall. While I was taking pictures of a child playing in a fountain with his mother (and the two did not seem to care that I took the picture) a security guard again told me I was not allowed to use the camera because the stores do not want their displays and merchandise photographed by the competition. (I could not believe this one, especially since I was not near a store.)
My third attempt was taking picture of a mansion on Lake Drive in Milwaukee - a man ran out of the house and yelled at me for "casing out the joint." When I tried to calmly explain that I was just taking a picture of the architecture of his house and that my 40 year old Yashica Electro would in no way be able to case the joint from such a distance (I was shooting from the sidewalk across a rather large front lawn) he got even angrier.
Everytime I try street photography, I am met with resistance. Is it always like this everytime a person does street photography? What are some tips you can give me to over come my fear of street photography? How can I approach a stranger and have them allow me to take their picture?
This is sadly the world we live in now. Even as far away as here in New Zealand this is slowly becoming an issue, and I don't think that historical experiences with documentory photography will help. the days of HCB etc are not the days of now.
We should look at it as a challenge, perhaps the social-political issues we face now are to us like the challenge photographers in the past had with lesser equipment.
WE now live in a very insecure sociaty that is either scared of being photographed or scared the photographs you make are in some way going to harm people or because we are such a commerce driven sociaety today they want a piecet of the action. The challenge is to photograph what we are now. That means we have to develope new approahes to street photography. we shouldn't shy away from it but find a way to shoot it. it will never be for us like it was for HCB's lot.
Bill Pierce
10-02-2007, 19:16
Dear Mr. Pierce,
I love taking pictures, and I love looking at street photography. I am somewhat of a novice. I want to get into street photography, but I am afraid. How can I approach a stranger and have them allow me to take their picture?
No question about it. Street photography is more difficult than it ever was because of the resistance, i.e. downright hostility. Here are a few thoughts on starting.
Shoot at events that attract a lot of other photographers - street fairs, tourist spots, e.t.c..
Use one small camera.
Don't spend a lot of time. Shoot and move on.
If somebody looks up, subject or otherwise, don't avoid them. Smile, wave, ask them how they're doing and wear your best "You've got to be kidding." look when they tell you can't shoot. But don't argue. Just say, "Your the boss." Do not say, "You are an insecure asshole." If appropriate, strike up a conversation.
If need be, don't raise the camera to your eye. Shoot from the hip with a small camera. After awhile your framing will be pretty good.
(Even when you are raising your camera to your eye, you should know what the frame will cover before you quickly look through the finder. I am told that Bresson brought that camera up to his eye and had it down again faster than any of us.)
When working without looking through the viewfinder, those visual accidents are often more interesting than those produced by your sense of composition. When God gives you a really good shot, don't rat Him out. Claim it as your own.
One other thing that you can do is very simple. Tell the stranger you are an avid photographer and would like to take his picture. It won't be candid, but it can be very good.
BigSteveG
10-02-2007, 19:20
Sorry to hear about your bad experiences. I think the resistance is largely based on your shooting style. I'm able to take plenty of street shots and not have to take too much flack. Here are few ideas:
Don't ask for permission--just Be aware---learn the art of anticipation!
Pre-focus so you'll catch the shot.
Stay aware of chaging light conditions---adjust your meter accordingly
Work with one focal length until you can use it without looking through the VF.
If some one gives you attitude--just move on!!!
nikonhswebmaster
10-02-2007, 19:23
Your three first attempts were all done in a manner that was bound to cause problems. The security guards at all buildings since 9/11 are paranoid, asking for IDs etc. In the case of the mall you were doing something no store will let you do, it is a form of trespassing, since the mall is not really a public place. Shooting photos in neighborhood of mansions is really not going to make friends.
What was your purpose? Were these important photos to you? Here is what I would have done... and I would have gotten photos.
1) I want photos of executives going in and out of a building in manhattan. Be there only for a short time. Make friends with the doorman first. Make many stupid photos, of anything but what you want. Don't make a fuss, comeback in a week.
2) Use a tourist camera (chrome M6 with a 50), take your "girlfriend" along and take photos of her. Smile laugh and buy tacos.
3) The easiest, ring the doorbell, tell the owner you love his house, KNOW who built it and when, if you are lucky he will invite you in.
Always be ready for failure. it is very hard work.
1) Learn to smile, laugh, and be invisible.
2) Never argue, never raise your voice.
3) Dress nice, but don't stand out.
4) Don't wear stupid photo stuff, like fishing vests, or Herbert safari hats.
5) Don't carry a camera bag, unless you have a press pass around your neck, it makes you look a fool.
6) Don't carry any lens longer than a 50, and most of all do NOT carry a HUGE telephoto, it makes you look a fool in public.
7) Tripods are only for photographers using a 4x5, if you are not, you have made an error.
9) Flashes are for use at weddings, although many journalists I know use them on the street when they are shooting using press passes for fill.
10) you are almost always going to be trespassing, so be prepared to be thrown out. Be ready to leave, you will go with dignity, and be able to return.
11) do not promise prints to anyone you will never do it, and it makes enemies.
12) and above all do not make a spectacle of yourself. Think "what would a presbyterian do?"
http://www.romdog.com/wtc/november/remember.jpg
I have had problems but not often... mostly from subway bums, gezz they hate photographers who do not give them money. They are funny though, one yelled when I came a car "you just come on without even knocking, like you own my place."
I have taken many thousands of photos on the street, and been asked to move on many times, but I always managed to take my camera, full of film with me.
>>
"Work with one focal length until you can use it without looking through the VF"
This really simplifies the process of framing resulting in only spending a small amount of time raising the camera...
navilluspm
10-02-2007, 19:53
Thank you very much for the advice - Mr. Pierce and every one else who contributed.
Hey, you're in Milwaukee? Me too. I shoot street in downtown Milwaukee about 2-3 times a week. Why don't we meet sometime and try it together. I'll probably be out there Friday afternoon, about 1:00 pm, and shoot for a couple hours.
Here's some ofmy work:
http://http://www.pbase.com/marke
11) do not promise prints to anyone you will never do it, and it makes enemies.
I have to say that in my case this is not true. When I promise prints I always deliver. It has made me many a friends and opened up many connections with people to talk to when in need of info or help when working on my personal work.
Your rule should be, "If you are offer prints to someone, follow through. If you dont intend to give them prints in the first place or have a feeling you will flake out, then do not offer."
fdigital
10-02-2007, 20:51
Some gentle advice - never take pictures of children without first asking their parents for permission. Even then I wouldn't do it. It's wading into dangerous territory.
fdigital: I was walking with a camera near a wading pool, which happened to have a classroom full of children enjoying the cool water, when I was told by their aides that I not take a picture... I had no such intentions....
I like that picture nikonhswebmaster
Isn't it terrible, considered being sinister in some way for carrying a camera jky!
perhaps you should have taken photographs :)
On a serious note though, At Bondi beach in Sydney Australia you are not allowed cameras on the beach, period!
and what a shame that paranoia is going to rob the future of so many photographs of our time!
nikonhswebmaster
10-02-2007, 21:30
and what a shame that paranoia is going to rob the future of so many photographs of our time!
It has been with us forever. You have to take the photographs anyway. People will always tell you not to do something. Fear, territory, all conspire to make people tell you to go away.
I had a terrible run in with a policeman over this photo... he left his post and ran after me. But it appeared on PBS, despite his attempt to stop its creation.
http://www.romdog.com/wtc/november/offices.jpg
nikonhswebmaster
10-02-2007, 21:45
On a serious note though, At Bondi beach in Sydney Australia you are not allowed cameras on the beach, period!
Maybe ( local council decided cameras were not allowed on Sdney’s famous Bondi Beach) -- but just a quick search on Google brought up hundreds of photos from Bondi beach. Clearly no one is paying any attention to the insane rules.
Christmas 2005
http://www.bondivillage.com/pics2005/xd5822.jpg
And of course the world bikini record in 2007, set at Bondi Beach
http://i.pbase.com/g6/53/14853/2/86240073.nRANmab9.jpg
Hi Navilluspm,
You have entitled it "Overcoming Fear". It seems to me this thread is mixing two different situations. If a representative of authority tells you no pics here, you smile and don't make the pic. You have no choice (*)
But if you walk around with a feeling of fear, as if at any moment an enraged big dog is going to jump on you this is a different issue.
For this purpose solely, I think I have a good idea. Pick two of the biggest cameras you have, and walk around with them wherever you go, be it the university, work, shopping, etc
Furthermore, one of the two will be at your chest. You will not use the cameras but get used that common people, vigilants, mafiosos, CIA, and all what you have around will notice you. During the process you may start finding photo opportunities in which you are not much visible to your subjects.
Or better said, you will distinguish between people tensioned by your cameras, people interested in your cameras, and people that don't look at you at all. This third last group will be your starter, but latter.
Do this exercise without firing your cameras for some month or two, until you get used to the first and second group, really feeling deep in your bones you have overcomed fear from them.
I strongly oppose to hide cameras for the obvious reason that one day you will be caught, and then what ? Secondly because you will be adapting (yielding) to fear instead of overcoming (fighting) it.
Cheers,
Ruben
PS: while i own the copyrights for the exercise, the very issue of showing your cameras was directly told to me by a great street photographer. He tought me to show around: I am a photographer and I am going to take pictures.
(*) Unless you prepare yourself beforehand for the meeting and take care of having got the pic before the smile.
what is the story that goes with that shot ?
I was in sydney around this time last year and I'm pretty sure I heard the bylaw was initiated, not sure how it's being enforced though.
I agree Rubin facing up to it is the answer.
nikonhswebmaster
10-02-2007, 22:08
what is the story that goes with that shot ?
Giuliani passed down an edict that no photos were to be taken of the World Trade Center, because it was a crime scene. The police took him at his word, and in addition became very odd about the public as time wore on. The order was removed when Giuliani was told about the constitution.
The photo is of building 5 above Borders Books, taken from the west side with a 1200 mm Telephoto on an Olympus digital.
Thanks, its an interesting shot that also stands alone without the story. the whole worlds a bloody crime scene these days :)
Peter Klein
10-02-2007, 22:23
Ruben: I'm curious what the attitude towards photography is in Israel. After all, Israel has been dealing with terrorism for a long time, much longer and more frequently than the U.S. or most of Western Europe.
Do the police tell people not to take pictures on the street? Is there the same issues of people not wanting to be photographed in public? Is there the level of paranoia about photographing children we find in the U.S. or the U.K.?
--Peter
As a very gross generalization, if you are a foreign press photographer, you are an ally of the enemy, handy for anyone's vendetta with the understanding of the authorities. Press photographers distinguish themselves by their big bazookas. They are just out of the law, and right now the Brittish Governments is negotiating for the trial of an Israeli soldier who shot to death a Brittish photographer in the Gaza Strip 3 years ago. Many Israeli photographers have been shot and injured at the Occupied Territories.
But if you, like me, go around within Israeli reckognized borders with two canonets or two kievs, people will be just get interested in these oldies, and there are no restrictions within malls, shops, central bus stations, buildings and airports. All these excluding X-ray machines and personel everywhere.
No paranoia, no problem with taking pics of children, although here I am rather tactfull.
Cheers,
Ruben
Ruben is exactly right.
To give my take on it (and it's less mature or thoughtful than his) just take the photo and stop being so scared. If police, security guards, or other people raise a fit, just be polite and move on. There are plenty of other places to take photos.
But at the end of the day, if you want to do street photography, you will get hassled by police and security guards. You will get dirty looks from people you photograph. You will likely get people very angry at you or at least obviously very displeased you took their photo. It's just the statistics -- no matter how stealthy you try to be you will get caught. And sometimes some of your subjects or bystanders really, really won't like it.
If you can't deal with that, then maybe you should limit your street photography to public events, like parades and the like. But otherwise, it goes with the territory. Be open and comfortable with what you're doing.
Again, if anyone gives you a hassle, move on. Arguing about it is rarely worth it.
Seriously, what right does anyone have not to have their photograph taken in public?
Best regards,
-Jason
Postscript: Rereading this post, I realize the tone can come across as fairly hostile -- and that's not right (nor is it my point). I think you should be hostile to your own fear, don't get me wrong. But don't have an attitude of hostility towards people you photograph or bystanders (including police or security guards). This comes across in your body language, and the better your body language, the more likely you'll get better photos where your subject knows you are there or taking a photo of them. Just don't let yourself be your own worst enemy when it comes to photographing people in public. That's what you should be hostile towards.
Something that might also help is a trick a friend told me:
Carry some of your photographs with you. In case you will be stopped you can explain, by showing them, what are you doing. The more "artistic" the best.
I don't do very much street photography but i had the same fears with you. An exercise i did was the following:
I had to shoot every ten steps. Never mind the framing, the composition, the focus, all the technical stuff. Just press the button every ten steps in something you see interesting. (You may also use the "hyperfocal distance", sorry i don't know the English translation from Greek, in order not to waste totally your film).
The first day i had to finish only one roll. The second two, the third three. Then mind about the technical stuff before the shot, while walking.
I've noticed that most of the people didn't care about me. Some gave me a look like saying "what a fool, what is he doing anyway?", but i was walking and didn't bother to ask me anything. I had no problems.
Something i've learned from this exercise was that, for me, the "eye contact" is crucial in order to understand if you can take the shot or not.
When too close try do "eye contact", look the "subject" in the eyes. Then you'll know what to do or not.
And always be fast. Not shoot and hide. Don't hide at all. Just be fast.
Let me also quote some HCB words that might be helpful to all us novice to street photography:
"..be there,
don't think,
forget yourself,
don't search..."
P.S. Also always have in mind that you don't do something "bad". If you do then is shows.
Hope it helps,
Dimitris
There are many good suggestions here that worked well for me right now (I have short experience anyway).
It's good idea shooting with other friendsthat shares the same hobby, I do it and it makes me feel less "lonely" knowing I can count on someone would help you explain what's going on in case it would be needed.
I do not take photo of kids often but when I do I want to be sure that my girlfriend is near me, smiling and talking with me while I'm shooting: it makes everything clear without any explaination needed.
Be relaxed, I avoid to go shooting when I'm nervous, and be always smiling. I always says "thank you" or"cheers" when somebody noticed me taking his picture.
Sometimes, taking some street portrait, I don't move fast at all, I take my time to focus, set aperture leaving the time to the subject to tell me "no" if he/she notices me in that case I accept the deny smiling.
Some other times asking before is the best (only) way.
Right now I've been shouted just once and politely being told not a several time: I consider myself lucky :). I just hope that the situation also here in Italy won't get worse ...
mike goldberg
10-03-2007, 07:34
I just happened onto this Thread. Things have sure changed for me since I quit PJ for health reasons 20 years ago. The Nikon F2 with 35 & 105 Nikkors were my basic tools. Then, what if I needed the 24 or 200... or flash? And, my right shoulder ached from the weight of the camera bag.
Funny thing, the M2 now with me for 35 years, always went with me. And the M2+35/2.8 combination were used more than all other cameras combined. A dozen, or so, years ago... Ruben turned me on to the Oly OM-1. Aha!... lighter and quieter than Nikon SLR. And, it was another system to build on.
I want to appreciate Ruben's comments on street photography in Israel. It IS relatively easy to photograph here, so long as I lower my camera if someone objects, and am not capturing anything militarily sensitive. Even as a working pro, my best work was on assignment... usually doing human interest stories.
Finally, some so-called "primitive" types believe that you are "taking" their soul when you take their picture. So long as I feel that I am not "taking" anything, rather I am creating and willing to share, then all is well.
Cheers
All good advice above that I've used.
There's a couple of other things that I do that make me feel comfortable. One is to be familiar with the area you are going to photograph. I get a feel for the ebb & flow of the area because I frequent it often. You get to know areas & people to avoid and when it's ok to photograph. People also recognize you and therefore ignore you most of the time.
One other thing is that somedays you just feel confident and some days you just can't put the camera to your eye without feeling very conscious. It's ok when that happens but be aware of it and just go with the flow.
It helps to live in a big city where there's a ton of people on their way somewhere and don't care what you do. I've learned to not care what anyone says or does. I've had situations of people giving me the look of death and a few times where I've been cussed at. I just walk away and smile and say sorry even though I've already taken the photograph of them.
This video of NYC photographer Jeff Mermelstein helps me get motivated when I'm not particularly confident. I figure if he can do it, then we all can. Just be confident and quick when photographing:
http://2point8.whileseated.org/?p=237
pesphoto
10-03-2007, 07:50
Ive gotten looks from people or once even got hit on the arm while shooting a passerby. Only once did I have a run in with police in Boston when i was shooting an abandoned and burnt tractor trailer and it turned out the be a scene of a horrible crime that they were staking out. I had no isea of course, but they werent fooling around when they confronted me. Nothing physical, but they got their point across. Then, after doing a background check on me, they let me go. They took my 2 rolls of film though. I wasnt going to argue with them in this case.
BillBingham2
10-03-2007, 10:52
A lot has to do with the confidence you show, how you walk and how you feel. If you feel scared you will look scared. Kind of like dealing with dogs. Dogs can sense if you are an Alpha and I believe that jerks can to. That is not to mean that they will not try to mess with you, just like a dog. But their actions can change based upon your reaction, some times dramatically.
Dress local, walk local, and blend in. Do not move your head around, use your eyes not your neck. Pick your place and do not vary too much. Stopping or running draws attention to you, unless everyone else around you is doing the same.
I do streets with a black Bessa L and a CV 25/4, IMHO the ultimate street camera. It’s not around my neck, it’s around my wrist and never leaves. It’s light enough I can carry it for hours and not get tired. I’d love to use my S3 or M4-P, but they are chunks of metal and I do not want my right arm to look like Popeye while my left is like Olive Oyl!
Treat people with respect, even when they are blowing their stacks at you. It’s hard when you know they are wrong, but often people make mistakes, have bad days (weeks, months or years), so calm is the name of the day.
While it does not always work, if you see something you want to shoot, think about it and walk around the block, giving it some time for you to get ready the folks near by to forget you and shoot.
The more people walking through an area, the easier it is for you to blend in. If you’re the only person walking down the street, you will stand out. Your goal should be to look local, stay focused, and keep trying. It takes time to find out how to walk and blend in anywhere. Another option is to walk back the other way (same side of the street) looking like you are returning from going somewhere. Again with a time delay so that it seems nature.
While I did not blend in 100%, I walked all over NYC (Alphabetland, West Village, Upper West Side) and loved it.
Best thing is thing, shot and share your results. You are among friends, with many experiences and ideas that have worked and a few that have not!
B2 (;->
If possible get a model release.
Old HCB/Magnum photos ... had problems too.
French woman unhappy at unwitting movie "role"
Lawsuit filed in Morristown over use of photo in "Sex, Lies, Videotape"
(about 8 years ago)
Newark Star-Ledger
By Bill Riley
nikonhswebmaster
10-03-2007, 12:23
Finally, some so-called "primitive" types believe that you are "taking" their soul when you take their picture. So long as I feel that I am not "taking" anything, rather I am creating and willing to share, then all is well.
Cheers
Perhaps that could have been phrased better.
antiquark
10-03-2007, 14:19
Keep moving, don't linger around an area trying to find a good angle. People will think you're "scoping out the joint."
Walk briskly. When you arrive at the best point of view, stop, raise the camera, take the pic, then keep walking.
The idea is to not give anyone time to react to you. By the time they realize what happened, you're long gone.
navilluspm
10-03-2007, 14:45
Wow, lots of good advice. Thanks again. One member volunteered by even going street shooting with me (which will be a big help).
Ok, now for the technical side of things: what is a good focal length to start with: 50 - being a standard lens and all - or 35 - having greater depth of field? Should I use the sunny 16 rule to be fast - pre -meter and focus - or should I use AE?
I have to admit, my first attempts will be with an SLR for a while. It is small - a Contax 167MT, but definitely not quiet. (I hope to have a RF up and running by next summer, thanks to a generous donation from an RFF member)
I would suggest trying different lenses one at a time, that way you will soon find what you are most comfortable with and what best suits the type of shots you like to make. remembering though that the wider the lens the closer you will have to get to the action, and therefore the more you will need to face your fear :)
navilluspm
10-03-2007, 15:13
I would suggest trying different lenses one at a time, that way you will soon find what you are most comfortable with and what best suits the type of shots you like to make.
35mm is by far my favorite focal length.
remembering though that the wider the lens the closer you will have to get to the action, and therefore the more you will need to face your fear :)
Hmm, I guess this means I will use a 50
BillBingham2
10-03-2007, 15:45
The best part about photography is that if one lens does not work, you can try another one on a different day. If I remember, the 167 is not LARGE so it should work fine.
I would start with the 35. I'm not a bit AE fan especially if you are not going to look through the viewfinder. If you shot without bringing her to our eye I do not think you will have to much problem about getting close. Just shoot and keep walking.
B2 (;->
Hi Navilluspm,
Perhaps i forgot the most important. We here stand behind you, we are ready to continue talking about the issue in the measure you find more obstacles with time. And in no way we will recommend you "get off, you don't fit".
You have got a lot of advice, you will get more in the future. Time to do your own photosynthesis and start roaming around.
Cheers,
Ruben
Time to do your own photosynthesis and start roaming around.
Cheers,
Ruben
I love that! I know exactly what Ruben means. Synthesis means "putting together".
Hi Navilluspm, I got your PM and I'll try to call you tomorrow afternoon from work.
Looks like Friday afternoon will work then to meet and shoot. Great! The weather looks like it will be nice too. I'm still very new at this myself. But I think that getting out with another person will help us both.
Talk to you soon!
Mark
All good advice above that I've used.
...
http://2point8.whileseated.org/?p=237
agi, great video! Thanks for the link.
Hi Navilluspm,
...
Time to do your own photosynthesis and start roaming around.
An excellent thing to say that contains the pure meaning of photography. I believe that's the best advice got up to now.
Thanks ruben.
-
Dimitris
i have occasionally had this problem too. A while back while visiting my mother in the city where she lives we went for a coffee at a nearby shopping centre. We were sitting outside and after deciding to eat, she got up to go inside the coffee shop to decide what to to order and as she walked inside I lifted my camera and took a shot of her. A few moments later I was confronted by an angry and very fit looking young man who demanded to know why I was photographing him. In fact it turns out he was sitting inside the coffee shop and I could not even see him through the window because of the sun glare and reflection and so could not photograph him if I wanted to. I was very cool calm and collected and just said that I had no idea what he was talking about or who he was or why he thought I would want to photograph him, then turned my back and went back to reading the newspaper. He stood there, standing over me for probably 15 more seconds (which seemed like an eternity) then huffed and puffed and stormed off. I imagine from his looks that he was some kind of local sporting celebrity who took me for a paparazzo but I still have no idea why he was so exercised about the matter. I often feel very very worried about photographing people without their permission as there are too many who get upset. If I am serious about shooting interesting faces (an interesting little exercise in photography) I will make a point of using an SLR with a long lens so I am less in their territory and able to be a little discrete about it.
nikonhswebmaster
10-04-2007, 04:29
I will make a point of using an SLR with a long lens so I am less in their territory and able to be a little discrete about it.
They will see you and if you are in a mall assume you are a cop. There is no easy solution to taking photos of people who do not want to be photographed. You really have try and feel the vibes of the situation.
The method mentioned of just ignoring and looking over their shoulder has worked for me, "why would i be taking your photo when that beautiful woman is right behind you?"
I don't do it much anymore except for people just appearing in the backgound.
Overcoming fear? What fear?
Once I realized nobody cared about me just as much as I don't care about nobody on the streets, then there's no fear no more.
People don't care, and I don't either. If someone makes a big thing about it, I jus tell them to go see if Elvis is alive and move along.
navilluspm
10-05-2007, 16:52
I went out with marke this afternoon to try some street photography. I was very nervous but had a great experience. Unfortunately I have no pictures to post - none of them were that great.
I decided to take my trusty Yashica FR (hey, if it is good enough for oil rich billionares, its good enough for me - see this thread http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48087&highlight=yashica ) and I put a 35mm on it.
I prepared myself by learning the sunny 16 rule - which was good becasue it was sunny. I used a very informative exposure chart I found here http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm
I wanted to be fast. I set the hyperfocal distance on my lens and was ready to snap away.
My mistake was using Arista 50 film - of which I have 700 feet in my freezer (I stocked up during that freestyle sale: $12/100 ft.) Motion blur is my biggest mistake (as well as some bad composition). Otherwise, the exposure is all within the films tolerance! (Great for going out with out any meter for the first time).
I had a lot of fun with Mark. Waking and talking with him made me very relaxed. I was always looking around, and my ear was tuned to him. I made me forget my fear and just snap really fast (too fast for ISO 50 film).
We met a customer of his who was a street vendor. Talking to him and taking pictures made me very at ease. It was also nice seeing a lot of other poeple out with cameras at this time, and I think this made a big difference because maybe it made people more open to this kind of photography (? maybe ?)
Anyway, I had a lot of fun and learned some valuable lessons:
1) Street photography is really fun.
2) Do not attempt street photography with Arista 50 (PanF+) even if it is sunny.
3) I should use a 50mm lens, because I am still too timid to get close enough to use a 35mm.
4) I do not need a light meter for general street photography - trust you instrict becasue film is forgiving.
5) Prefocusing works.
6) It is possible to be fast, and the faster the better.
7) Get to know people. Don't be shy, talk to them and have even more fun.
8) I should really use a rangefinder for this kind of photography, thankfully a FSU is on the way!
I am glad my first time was so possitive. Thank you again, mark. I can't wait to go out and shoot with you again.
Steve Bellayr
10-05-2007, 17:37
I just had a conversation with an attornery ref. photographing people. He stated that while in a public space you have "no expectation of privacy". This is why papparazzi stand on public space and photograph their victims to and from destinations while in this public space.
Hell all,
This is a very good topic for us to be talking back and forth about. As it stands it would seem to me that there are many methods of street shooting. So of course anyone should feel free to try other peoples different techniques in order to find what works for himself.
I have spoken or rather exchanged posts with Mark the photographer who invited the original poster for some Milwaulkee street photography today.
Hello Mark!! Thanks for sending me the link to this thread.
Mark has given me some good ideas that I have seen repeated here. Shooting from the hip has been mentioned and is one of the more interesting methods. For myself I still use manual focus lenses on my cameras and I do have a preference for snapping the subject into focus while looking through my viewfinder. I shoot fast and then I'm done.
I feel I'm not all that experienced at street photography yet mostly because I live between two towns and they are nothing like a city. Meaning they are not at all overpopulated.
I really can't blend in at all while I'm out taking pictures because of the sparseity of people and I absolutly bring my camera with me every day and everywhere I go. I hold it in my hand without any strap.
I have noticed that there is way to much room on the sidewalks and that there are just a few people out and about going on their business. Mostly everyone drives into town and parks the car in a public parking lot and then walks the 100 or so feet to the store of intrest. There is not much walking about on the sidewalks of the town. So for me this environment is challanging.
If anyone has any experince in shooting in local's similar to what I have briefly described I would like to hear what you have come up with.
BillBingham2
10-05-2007, 20:27
I would approach this somewhat the way you are starting. First, by carrying your camera everywhere you go. This will get people used to seeing you with a camera. Over time, mowing lawns, raking leaves, painting fences, dogs going for a walk might become your street shots. Perhaps it’s someone fixing a car, offer to help, get to know them and then see if you can shoot. It’s a lot longer term engagement than walking down a street in the city, but it can be just as much fun. You need to look for shadows on lawns, cats crossing the street, bicycles and scooters. The big thing to do, as you live there is to share copies of your shots with folk (them or their house or what ever). Look for things out of the ordinary, challenge yourself to see a different view that anyone else has done. Perhaps it’s learning how the sun changes it’s lighting over the seasons and throughout the day and coming back for a shot when the sun is just right. You might try bars too. Use a table top tripod, a cable release and shoot some existing darkness. You need to know the bars and have an OK from the bartender, but it can be fun.
It will take some time for folks to look past your camera, but if you share your successes, and hang in there, they will.
B2 (;->
Hell all,
This is a very good topic for us to be talking back and forth about. As it stands it would seem to me that there are many methods of street shooting. So of course anyone should feel free to try other peoples different techniques in order to find what works for himself.
I have spoken or rather exchanged posts with Mark the photographer who invited the original poster for some Milwaulkee street photography today.
Hello Mark!! Thanks for sending me the link to this thread.
Mark has given me some good ideas that I have seen repeated here. Shooting from the hip has been mentioned and is one of the more interesting methods. For myself I still use manual focus lenses on my cameras and I do have a preference for snapping the subject into focus while looking through my viewfinder. I shoot fast and then I'm done.
I feel I'm not all that experienced at street photography yet mostly because I live between two towns and they are nothing like a city. Meaning they are not at all overpopulated.
I really can't blend in at all while I'm out taking pictures because of the sparseity of people and I absolutly bring my camera with me every day and everywhere I go. I hold it in my hand without any strap.
I have noticed that there is way to much room on the sidewalks and that there are just a few people out and about going on their business. Mostly everyone drives into town and parks the car in a public parking lot and then walks the 100 or so feet to the store of intrest. There is not much walking about on the sidewalks of the town. So for me this environment is challanging.
If anyone has any experince in shooting in local's similar to what I have briefly described I would like to hear what you have come up with.
You know, this could be your approach. To people who live in huge cities this in itself can seem so strange, that a town has so few people to walk around it. In essential it sounds like you live near cities like my hometown. Practically ghost towns after 4-5pm downtown.
BillBingham2
10-05-2007, 20:40
Down town LA as a ghost town after 5 when I was there some years back.
B2 (;->
jaffa_777
10-05-2007, 21:54
This is a great thread, its good to here different peoples approaches and mindsets in how we approach street photography.
I am usually a little nervous for about the first 10 mins everytime I go out and shoot street, this never seems to change. But I find what helps me is to shoot of a few frames of just anything really. They will probablay be nothing shots, but once I have put the camera to my eye in public a couple of times, I instantly become confident in what I am doing and continue on from there.
As quite a few people have already said its all about confidence. I make it quite known with my body language I belong, am very confident, and delibarate in what I am doing. When people see this more often than not it puts them at ease and says that you are not being sneaky or taking advatage of them. It also helps them forget you rather quickly so you become invisble. I never walk around with a big sign on my head, "I apologise for being here" as this makes people edgy and unrelaxed.
I have been using my Nikon F3 lately with 28mm and 50mm lenses. I don't have a 35mm rangefinder yet, but I honestly beleive that with confidence and the right body language you could do great street photography with a big pro body dslr if you wanted.
nikonhswebmaster
10-06-2007, 06:24
On thing I want to bring up...
When I was teaching photography in college (many years ago, in another life) all my students wanted to be Cartier Bresson and shoot on the street. They would verture into situations where they were uncomfortable and of course unwelcome. And take poor photographs.
So one semester I gave them the "assignment" to document a family member's life. Not snapshots but a document, good times and bad. The photographs were truly astounding. One series of a student's overworked mom was some of the best photography I have ever seen by anyone.
One of the photographers I like the most, Nan Golden, has alway shot those very close to her, and revealed their lives.
If you do shoot on the street, you have to make it your own, by going back to the same places over and over, so they know you and you know them.
The street can be fun, but home may often be better. Some of the photographers on the RFF who are taking photos of their children are among the best work on here.
Harry Lime
10-06-2007, 10:55
Down town LA as a ghost town after 5 when I was there some years back.
B2 (;->
It still is.
After night fall it turns into 'Escape from New York'.
But it is getting better with all of the development going on.
HL
nikonhswebmaster
10-06-2007, 11:16
It still is.
After night fall it turns into 'Escape from New York'.
But it is getting better with all of the development going on.
HL
For those of you not fans of 'Escape from New York' it was shot in St. Louis, in Union Station while it was in ruin.
PetarDima
10-06-2007, 11:47
I would approach this somewhat the way you are starting. First, by carrying your camera everywhere you go. This will get people used to seeing you with a camera. Over time, mowing lawns, raking leaves, painting fences, dogs going for a walk might become your street shots. Perhaps it’s someone fixing a car, offer to help, get to know them and then see if you can shoot. It’s a lot longer term engagement than walking down a street in the city, but it can be just as much fun. You need to look for shadows on lawns, cats crossing the street, bicycles and scooters. The big thing to do, as you live there is to share copies of your shots with folk (them or their house or what ever). Look for things out of the ordinary, challenge yourself to see a different view that anyone else has done. Perhaps it’s learning how the sun changes it’s lighting over the seasons and throughout the day and coming back for a shot when the sun is just right. You might try bars too. Use a table top tripod, a cable release and shoot some existing darkness. You need to know the bars and have an OK from the bartender, but it can be fun.
It will take some time for folks to look past your camera, but if you share your successes, and hang in there, they will.
B2 (;->
What to say after this words? I looooove street photography!
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h272/PetarDima/1-2.jpg
I love that! I know exactly what Ruben means. Synthesis means "putting together".
For those who have forgotten it, if there are at all, 'photosynthesis' is the process by which the vegetal world absorve and elaborate light for living.
But when I wrote it, , I indeed meant as Frank says, taking the best from all anwers and making your own path. But I was not aware of the photo double meaning here - what an irony !
:)
Cheers,
Ruben
I had a great time getting to know you, navilluspm, and shooting with you.
To the others here, I actually didn't do very much shooting. I think I was talking too much! Navilluspm saw and reacted to a couple good shots that I comepletely missed.
I have learned a lot from this thread since it was started. And I agree that we all might have different approaches. I might vary my approach with each given circumstance. I realize that there are times when shooting from the hip might be the only way you're going to get a particular shot. But my goal is to depend on that technique less and less, as I develope alternative approaches to obtaining the picture. For myself as a street photographer, I hope to develope more relationships with the regulars in the area.
Someone mentioned in an earlier post about shooting in the same area regularely. I think there's a lot of advantages to that. I spent the last 7 years shooting local wildlife, and as I learned more and more about the specific area I was shooting in, I began to learn the patterns of nature, so that my "take home pay" required less time than when I first began shooting wildlife. I think the same can be applied towards street photography. And just as certain animals would become accustomed to my presence over time, and learn that I wasn't a threat, I believe the same thing can happen if we approach street photography in a similar manner. From my own experience, some animals are best photographed without trying to hide from them. For example, hawks (and other birds of prey) have much better eyesight than we do. It's pointless trying to hide from one, because by the time you've even spotted him, he has probably been watching you much longer. And I've found that many times in those cases, if you do try to hide, and they lose a clear sight of where you are, they get uncomfortable. Funny how the same thing can be applied to street photography!
I am basically an introvert, so the thought of initiating conversation with a stranger frightens me! But I know that if I can get beyond the fear, there are endless possibilities to meet people and probably form some pretty great relationships.
I hope this thread goes on, and on, and on. Thank you, naviluspm,for having the courage to start it. I'm looking forward to shooting with you again.
I didn't get anything worth posting from our shoot together. But here's something that was on the same roll, that I had captured earlier in the week. I saw the guy reaching in his pocket, so I got ready. See the coin in mid-air? Is this what they call "the money shot"? :D
Mark,
This is a nice photo. The money shot means the one your client is paying you to do and it will be a sure seller.
I saw this same image on the dp review forum and comented about the over exposure on the Sax mans shirt. Funny, because since I play the Altp Sax just like this man is doing, well, this was the focal point of the image for me. Yes I saw the other man flipping in the coin but I don't remember ever seeing the coin as I do here. LOL we just cannot control what the viewer will find most interesting and what gets his attention in our photographs.
I had a great time getting to know you, navilluspm, and shooting with you.
To the others here, I actually didn't do very much shooting. I think I was talking too much! Navilluspm saw and reacted to a couple good shots that I comepletely missed.
I have learned a lot from this thread since it was started. And I agree that we all might have different approaches. I might vary my approach with each given circumstance. I realize that there are times when shooting from the hip might be the only way you're going to get a particular shot. But my goal is to depend on that technique less and less, as I develope alternative approaches to obtaining the picture. For myself as a street photographer, I hope to develope more relationships with the regulars in the area.
Someone mentioned in an earlier post about shooting in the same area regularely. I think there's a lot of advantages to that. I spent the last 7 years shooting local wildlife, and as I learned more and more about the specific area I was shooting in, I began to learn the patterns of nature, so that my "take home pay" required less time than when I first began shooting wildlife. I think the same can be applied towards street photography. And just as certain animals would become accustomed to my presence over time, and learn that I wasn't a threat, I believe the same thing can happen if we approach street photography in a similar manner. From my own experience, some animals are best photographed without trying to hide from them. For example, hawks (and other birds of prey) have much better eyesight than we do. It's pointless trying to hide from one, because by the time you've even spotted him, he has probably been watching you much longer. And I've found that many times in those cases, if you do try to hide, and they lose a clear sight of where you are, they get uncomfortable. Funny how the same thing can be applied to street photography!
I am basically an introvert, so the thought of initiating conversation with a stranger frightens me! But I know that if I can get beyond the fear, there are endless possibilities to meet people and probably form some pretty great relationships.
I hope this thread goes on, and on, and on. Thank you, naviluspm,for having the courage to start it. I'm looking forward to shooting with you again.
I didn't get anything worth posting from our shoot together. But here's something that was on the same roll, that I had captured earlier in the week. I saw the guy reaching in his pocket, so I got ready. See the coin in mid-air? Is this what they call "the money shot"? :D
Hello Bill,
Thanks for a very good reply and the encouragement.
Like my title say's I like the idea of looking for the shadow's. This is my mission tommorrow.
I would approach this somewhat the way you are starting. First, by carrying your camera everywhere you go. This will get people used to seeing you with a camera. Over time, mowing lawns, raking leaves, painting fences, dogs going for a walk might become your street shots. Perhaps it’s someone fixing a car, offer to help, get to know them and then see if you can shoot. It’s a lot longer term engagement than walking down a street in the city, but it can be just as much fun. You need to look for shadows on lawns, cats crossing the street, bicycles and scooters. The big thing to do, as you live there is to share copies of your shots with folk (them or their house or what ever). Look for things out of the ordinary, challenge yourself to see a different view that anyone else has done. Perhaps it’s learning how the sun changes it’s lighting over the seasons and throughout the day and coming back for a shot when the sun is just right. You might try bars too. Use a table top tripod, a cable release and shoot some existing darkness. You need to know the bars and have an OK from the bartender, but it can be fun.
It will take some time for folks to look past your camera, but if you share your successes, and hang in there, they will.
B2 (;->
Hi Peter.
I'm glad you've joined this thread. It's good to get perspectives on the topic from all walks of life.
Mark,
This is a nice photo. The money shot means the one your client is paying you to do and it will be a sure seller.
Yes, I knew that.
Oh well, I never was very good at telling jokes.
A few anecdotes:
I was shooting the exterior front facade of an office building in Clayton, MO last year, on a weekend. A female security guard came out wanting to know if I had "permission" to take a picture. I explained that you don't need permission to photograph anything you can see while standing in a public area. She said, "OK, thank you" and went back inside.
Several years ago, I went down to the St. Louis riverfront to photograph a favorite bridge. It turned out that they were having a a big speechmaking event I didn't know about, on the Gateway Arch grounds. There were security people. Not security guards; they were more official than that. FBI, police--I don't remember. At any rate, they were stopping everybody to check them out. You had to wait in line. There I was, with my bag full of Hasselblad gear and a manfrotto 3221 tripod with a really big head on it. When my turn came, I opened the bag. They hardly glanced in it and waved me on. I walked down to the levy behind the grandstand, set up my tripod and camera, and aimed it at the bridge. I ignored the whoile speechmaking thing, and they ignored me for about a half-hour while I shot my pictures. So much for rumors of not being allowed to photograph bridges.
When photographing buildings, mostly storefronts, I can generally count on someone coming out to ask what I'm doing. I just explain I'm an amateur photographer who hopes to put together one of those coffee table books about places one sees while travelling. It's always well received. I have been shy about actually asking permission, but recently I decided to ask the owner of the Route 66 Antique Mall along highway 44 in Missouri, if she would like her store to be in my book. She said yes, and I got a shot of her behind her cash register to put in my book. Come to think of it, what small store owner wouldn't want a little free advertising?
nikonhswebmaster
10-07-2007, 20:52
Born in St. Luke's hospital, St Louis is a pretty easy place to shoot. Never had any trouble there, even when I looked like a hippie in the '60s.
You can smooze them into anything...
Last spring, I had my own experience at the very same open air shopping mall that navilluspm mentioned in his first post. This mall has streets and sidewalks, and covers the area of several city blocks. It has parking meters for street parking.
I had photographed there a couple times before I was stopped by a security guard during my third or fourth shoot. She said I wasn't allowed to photograph there. I respectfully told her that I knew of my rights to photograph on the public streets. I also tried to respectfully mention that after 9-11, there have been many photographers confronted on this matter by well-meaning but improperly informed law-enforcement people. She asked if I'd like to talk with her supervisor. I said yes, and she radio-ed for him.
The supervisor told me basically the same thing, but he told me that it was legal to photograph people but not the buildings. We were discussing the issue of whether or not I was actually on public property or not. It seemed to me at this point, that even the security supervisor wasn't clear as to the laws and regulations of this area. During the whole conversation I was persistant but also expressed a clear understanding and respect for his responsibility. I have a feeling that no one had ever been this persistant with him on this matter before this. But he apparently appreciated my respect for his position, and comepletely understood why I saw this as a great place for street photography. So he gave me the name and phone number of the person in charge of the mall.
I never called this person, because shortly afterwards, I realized I had been on private property all along. The reason I've told this whole story is because this open air mall is designed to look EXACTLY like the public streets that are surrounding it's borders! It was deceiving to me. I also remember that my fiancee had rreceived a parking ticket a few weeks earlier,and the strange thing about it was that the ticket said the at the money went to a local charity, not to the local police department. That's the other thing that kind of maks you think it's public property, the local police department patrol these streets just like any other strets in the area. But what made t clear to me was when I was telling a friend about my incident with the security guards, he said, "Remember what was there before the those streets were built? It was a private parking lot."
I had then learned that things aren't always as they seem.
Anyway, here one I shot last February before that incident. Taken with my Panasonic Lumix LX2.
http://www.pbase.com/marke/image/74791056/original.jpg
One of the other things that vavilluspm and I briefly discussed during our meeting, was how the public often sees a photographer differently when he's with another person. Before adding anything more to this post, I would like to hear from others on how their experiences diffred when they we with another person, be it male or female, photographer or non-photographer, etc.
One of the other things that vavilluspm and I briefly discussed during our meeting, was how the public often sees a photographer differently when he's with another person. Before adding anything more to this post, I would like to hear from others on how their experiences diffred when they we with another person, be it male or female, photographer or non-photographer, etc.
As I stated in my previous post I also like to stroll for photos with other friends that share the same hobby. Altough I may like to have someone that can eventually help me explaining the situation, right now I did not have any real problem nor alone nor with others (knock on wood!!!). Anyway, I remember (or at least the impression I had) that during the RFF meeting in Paris the people we were photographing were more interested than annoyed from that bunch of crazy photogs.
When it comes to kid I usually take photos if my girlfriend is near me, smiling and talking with me while I'm shooting: it makes things easier ...
Here's a link to firsthand account of Winogrand photographing on the street:
http://www.photogs.com/bwworld/xtol1.html
Thanks, Joe. I remember reading that article.
THere's a video of him somewhere on the web, where someone followed Winogrand around as he shot and explained how he went about it. He had the ability to bring the camera up to his eye and back down again, before most of us even see the shot.
Spider67
10-21-2007, 09:07
Very important thread!
When I slipped back into photography some years ago...I decided to confront my greatest fear: asking people. And magically for some month not even one of them declined.
Of course when I got to the point garb shot or miss it out of ethical reasoning I decided finally for getting the picture.
Thanks for posting the documentary on Mermelstein. After all the posts about self confident behaviour it's interesting to see that he has a rather furtive approach and style of moving around (hementions himslef that he's taking something from people). Which is not criticims on my part as the only intersting thing are the results.
But I do agree that the best thing is to feel no guilt as there is some animal instinct in most of us be they "primitive" or not that makes us aware of sombody who's afraid and who's going to intude our Zone of Exicstence..
kipkeston
10-22-2007, 13:37
Has anyone ever been punched in the face or had their camera destroyed because of a belligerent gent?
Has anyone ever been punched in the face or had their camera destroyed because of a belligerent gent?
I've only been shooting street for about 6 months now, but haven't experienced anything close to that. I've had one or two people give me a quizzical look as if saying, "Why would you want to photograph me?"
I generally try to get a feel for the environment I'm shooting in, and approach each time out in it's own unique way.
navilluspm
10-22-2007, 20:56
Hi Mark. I missed you last Saturday (I went out later in the afternoon).
As the one who started this post, I have bit the bullet and decided to just try street photography. When I went with Mark, it was a lot easier. When I am by myself, it is harder. This past Saturday was really the "first time" for me alone. I went one other time, but really did not take any pictures of people. There were a couple of cool shots I could have taken, but I ended up helping people instead of taking their picture (like of an elderly man carrying something heavy down the stairs).
Last Saturday I found myself walking fast and all nervous. I shot from the hip a couple of times. I met a group of hippies hanging around for a ""Grateful Dead" type band. I talked to a guy selling pizza from his van, who said that he was from Utah, and follows this band in the summer. We had a cool talk. I asked if I could take his picture and he was cool with that. I asked if I could take pictures of others, and he said, "You should ask first. They porbably won't mind." I asked a lady, she said, "I would rather that you didn't." I respected her and moved on to the next table, still in ear shot of her. She, quite loudly, talked to other people. "That guy wanted to take my picture. What does he think we are, a bunch of freaks?" And then all the hippies started looking at me as if I were some freak, so I went over to the pizza sales man and talked somemore. He asked if I wanted my pictures taken. I said yes and gave him my camera. He asked if wanted the hippies in the back ground and I explained in a volume that the hippies could hear, and yet in a tone that was very respectful, "They do not want their pictures taken. I asked them and they said no, so I'll just stand by your van away from them." "Really, that's wierd," he replied.
Anyway, I have the negatives drying right now. I think they turned out, but none look spectacular as I look at them hanging. I might post a couple, if any are at least halfway descent. Thanks for all the encouragement.
robert blu
10-23-2007, 03:27
Learn to shoot smiling, or to smile just after the shot: it is not the all over solution but it helps. In the beginnig I was so concentrated to checke focus, exposure, the framing to seem very serious and this did not help. People believe you are doing something wrong. But when learned to shoot relaxed and smiling people also are more relaxed. And be ready to explain why are taking pictures: I usually say I'm taking a photo course and ask by the teacher to photographe at least ten different people. In many cases they feel involved and help you. But...different story if you ask for a permission to public the photo (in theory in Italy you are not allowed to do it whithout a permission), most people are very suspicious.
again, do not forget, learn to smile!
rob
I like this thread and all that has been said on this subject and I have a few additional thoughts......
embrace the fear... I am scared to death of rollercoasters but have learned to enjoy getting the crap scared out of me... I don't mean you should act reckless but I get great self satisfaction by conquering this fear and getting a great photograph
(sometimes just conquering the fear is enough)
people don't tend to take me serious with my "old" camera with its little lens... if you have a big SLR with a giant lens it draws a lot more attention
someone mentioned using long lenses to avoid confrontation.... in my experiance the quality of the shot is directly proportional to how close you are to the subject ...
GET CLOSER and use a wide lens that makes you get closer... that said when using, lets say a 35mm or a 28mm people have no idea they can be in the shot if the camera is not pointed directly at them
talk to strangers... I know, I know your mother told you not to but alot of people ldo not mind having their photo taken if approached the right way.... often I will say "hey I just bought this old camera and am trying it out ... do you mind if I take a picture of you, your dog, that shirt etc... ( i am always trying out a new camera) I recently saw a gentleman with a KISS tattoo and said I know someone who would just love that (very true) could I take a few pictures of it, he was more than happy to share it with me.(take a interest in their passions) my daughter likes to tell the story of how when walking in a park with her i saw a elderly lady with a polka-dot dress on and i went up to her and said "exscuse me but I am out today taking pictures of polka-dots and i was hoping you wouldn't mind if I took a picture of Your dress" how could any one say no to that and not only did i get a picture of the dress but a fine portrait of the lady wearing it. And if I could speculate, I know we all have this idea of HCB running around in stealth mode without being seen as he quickly raised and lowered the camera I would bet that he talked to some of these people, certainly he would of had to in the many fine portraits he took
I've had one or two people give me a quizzical look as if saying, "Why would you want to photograph me?"
I was walking around a ski resort town a couple of years ago and this guy turns and takes a snapshot in my general direction. I thought the same thing.
Hi Mark. I missed you last Saturday (I went out later in the afternoon).
As the one who started this post, I have bit the bullet and decided to just try street photography. When I went with Mark, it was a lot easier. When I am by myself, it is harder. This past Saturday was really the "first time" for me alone. I went one other time, but really did not take any pictures of people. There were a couple of cool shots I could have taken, but I ended up helping people instead of taking their picture (like of an elderly man carrying something heavy down the stairs).
Wow, you opened a door! I think some of the best street work is built on having some kind of relationship with the subject. I'm not always the best to follow for an example, but here is a great example of how a great photograph might have happened. Actually, it might STILL happen. Do you realize (of course you do;) ) that you now have established a relationship with this elderly man? And it is based on trust and concern for his well-being. You never know, but you might run across him again someday and I would almost bet that he would love to talk more and even offer to let you photograph him. Okay, so you say it wouldn't be candid. But have you studied the portraits of H-CB? Many of them were taken when the subect knew he was holding a camera and was planning to photograph them. And he did, but many of them were candids! Wonderful candids, that could never have happened without the relationship that H-CB had developed with the.
This past spring I found myself headed towards a genre of photography I never though I would care for, that of people photography. Like many others, I have found my photographic passion far away from people, in a field or a marsh where I didn't have to deal with the confrontation of another person. But I felt a tug to do street, and I knew that the human element would be necessary for me to feel fulfilled. Animals did it for me out in the wild, and people would be required for me to feel that same satisfaction if I wanted to shoot street. Now, as I stated a little earlier, I'm not the best at following my own advice, but I know where I need to go if I am going to feel fulfilled at shooting street. And that will require confronting strangers. It will probably never get to the point of being easy, but it might get easier! I try not to look at my camera as a tool to produce a picture, but rather a tool to meet people and hopefully form relationships with some of the people I shoot. The relationship might only last 5 minutes, and we may never agin connect. But I believe that when we can have this connection with our subject, incredible things can happen. The hearts of the photographer and the subject become common denominator, the driving force behind making the picture, and that can never be wrong.
I am constantly looking for venues where this confrontation might be easier, and last weekend I found one, that was at the Gallery Walk in Milwaukee's Third Ward. This past summer, I have spent an occasional Saturday on the south side of Milwaukee Public Market, where street artists and musicians will share their gifts with the pedestrians passing by. There is always one or two acoustic guitarists playing for us. They always seem receptive to me taking their picture. Here is one I got earlier this year. The guy moving out of the picture had played earlier, and whn he saw me shootinh his friend, I think he thought he was doing me a favor by moving out of the shot. Well, he was! I anticipated his decision to move, by keeping an eye on him and watching his body language. Without his decision to "help" me out, this would have been a boring shot of some guys strumming on his guitar. But now at least there is something interesting, something different, maybe een something that opens up a question for the viewer to think about!
http://www.pbase.com/marke/image/81850518/original.jpg
Last Sunday, I headed to the same place. There was a new guitarist there, someone I hadn't seen before.When he saw me checking him out for a shot, he aske me, "Should I get risky?". I said, "Sure, why not be brave?!". He was. He started using a technique that I've seen before, but can'r seem to recall the name. Anyway, I saw the light falling on the front of his face and on his guitar, and I knew I had the shot! I saw the passion in his face and hands, and heard it in the music. And I felt the passion in my shot. That is such a great feeling. Not only because it worked how I was envisioning it would, but also because I felt a connection between the guitarist and me that made it all happen. I dropped a couple dollars into his bucket, flashedmy business card briefly to him motioning that I was dropping it in also.
http://www.pbase.com/marke/image/87575713/original.jpg
Last Saturday I found myself walking fast and all nervous. I shot from the hip a couple of times. I met a group of hippies hanging around for a ""Grateful Dead" type band. I talked to a guy selling pizza from his van, who said that he was from Utah, and follows this band in the summer. We had a cool talk. I asked if I could take his picture and he was cool with that.
Cool, another relationship! And this time you got a picture!
I asked if I could take pictures of others, and he said, "You should ask first. They porbably won't mind." I asked a lady, she said, "I would rather that you didn't." I respected her and moved on to the next table, still in ear shot of her. She, quite loudly, talked to other people. "That guy wanted to take my picture. What does he think we are, a bunch of freaks?" And then all the hippies started looking at me as if I were some freak, so I went over to the pizza sales man and talked somemore. He asked if I wanted my pictures taken. I said yes and gave him my camera. He asked if wanted the hippies in the back ground and I explained in a volume that the hippies could hear, and yet in a tone that was very respectful, "They do not want their pictures taken. I asked them and they said no, so I'll just stand by your van away from them." "Really, that's wierd," he replied.
Hey, they don't all work out. It seems clear to me that you had more courage last weekend than I did! You confronted your fear, and have a couple great stories to tell. You are braver than you think!
Anyway, I have the negatives drying right now. I think they turned out, but none look spectacular as I look at them hanging. I might post a couple, if any are at least halfway descent. Thanks for all the encouragement.
I would like to see something, if you feel okay about sharing. If not, that's okay.
By gthe way, I'd like to shoot with you this weekend, if we can work something out. I'll call or PM you.
navilluspm
10-25-2007, 06:52
Ok, I am going to attach some photo's of my first alone street photography. I have a couple disclaimers: 1) None are that good - I am trying to get over fear and my fear shows 2) I have to learn to slow down because most of my shots are blurry. 3) For some reason my FED 3 viewfinder does not line up with my lens (this was my second time with the camera and first time of noticing it). The top part seems to always get cut off. You can see this with the man with the pizza oven: I am positive that I had his oven in the picture, but it is not there. Hmmm. Is there any way to correct this?
On to the Photos, and a little description.
#1 is a hip shot I took that seemed to turn out (except for the dreaded Fed flare in the center of the picture). I really didn't frame it
#2 is a quick shot I took, again, without much framing.
#3 is a picture of the Pizza sales man I talked about. He had a really cool oven, and I am positive I framed him more towards the center left to get the oven in the shot. (It is odd, the pictures I didn't spend time framing turned out better then the ones I did)
navilluspm
10-25-2007, 07:10
Picture #1 is of Bob, a costumer and friend of Mark's, and the flower guy, whose name I can't remember. I took a portrait of the flower guy. He let me do it, but due to the VF problem I mentioned before, the top of his head got cut off in the picture! The flower guy was really nice. He gave me a free flower because I took his picture. I wanted to buy flowers from him for my wife (for Sweetest Day), but when I finally got back to my car, I realized I had no money. When I finally found parking by the bank, got the money from an ATM and got back to him, he already left. I hope to see him again. He was a really nice guy.
Picture #2 is a very important picture for me. The teen on the right is someone I know. I am an inncercity pastor, and he was a member of my congregation, but I have not seen him for over 3 years. I buried his Dad when he died of sickle cell disease. His Mom was in jail for drugs, but got out three years ago. He was living with his grandparents, but moved back with his Mom and I had not seen him since. I barely recognized him. According to some people, this young man has mental problems because of his mother's drug use in pregancy. To be honest, yes, there are some problems, but I remember teaching him, and I think he is a lot smarter than most people give him credit. I think that he has a lot of potential, but because people talked around him about him, that he started to just live according to their expectations. He is a good young man. I hope to see him again some time. Too bad he is a member of another Church, because now I can't see and encourage his progress.
Just the chance meeting with him made my day of street shooting all worth it.
This picture really shows the problem I am having with the view finder. I know I framed this picture just right and NOT like this.
Picture #3 - this picture was not taken on the day of the other pictures, nor was it taken with the Fed. This picture was taken with my Kiev moments before I switched to my digital camera, stood on a rock, and fell into lake Michigan, wrecking the family's (aka. my wife's) digital camera . I offered her the FED to use. She was not amused.
I've never been caught at it or had trouble but I've only tried literally a few times and was just to nervous to do it. I don't know if I can overcome my fear of street photography or not but I hope so I enjoy looking at other people's work in this genre and would love to contribute
kipkeston
11-04-2007, 04:26
i took some photos lastnight. I think I captured a moment, what do you think?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2291/1856209074_1e69e0d4ba.jpg
I'm not sure.
I see what looks like a police officer pointing, possibly helping someone with directions. Other than that, I can't see anything in particular that helps me understand what's happening in this scene. Can you tell us what was going on?
kipkeston
11-04-2007, 13:53
yeah that's about it =(
Morca007
11-04-2007, 19:06
kipkeston- I really like that photo. The man looks quite ambivalent, centered, observing, holding back.
navilluspm- The photo of the Teen you used to mentor is good on it's own, and even better because of it's connection. Knowing the story behind a photograph can be a powerful thing for a viewer.
kipkeston
11-05-2007, 02:24
Phew, good to hear Morca.
Taking these street photos is exhilarating, especially when head on with your subject and a 35. It's like asking different women out over and over again as you walk down the street, but dare I say, even better.
I'm a bit late posting on this; just noticed the last post was about a week ago, and I might just be echoing others anyway.
I'll start by saying there are people that can't understand why some always carry a camera with them and take photos wherever they go. They ask "Don't you feel like you're missing life and always just seeing it through a lens?" Or something along those lines. I think it is based on seeing tourists going to sites and constantly taking photos while there, missing out (perhaps) on the experience of being at the place.
For myself photography is very different from this perception people have. It makes me actually be in my surrounds rather than just observe as a seperate part of it; I meet people and explore places. Sometimes it's hard to say whether I carry my camera because I do this anyway, or if I do this because I carry my camera.
Anyway, this is a long way of getting around to saying I rarely ask anyone if I can take their photo, but I do remain upbeat and happy and (I'm sure) looking like I'm absorbed by the wonder of it all (because usually I am). I don't hide that I'm taking photos, and don't try to make it obvious either, though I am quick.
Sometimes people see me take their photo so I give them a smile, they might smile back or have a laugh, and might even invite me to join them in whatever they're doing. Other times they're inviting me to take their photo, or join them before I get a chance to photograph them (can't always be quick enough I guess). Often they're too preoccupied to notice, or just aren't bothered.
I have to add that different places are different though (obvious I guess). In the North-West of England I was almost lynched by a group of teenagers because they thought I was a paedophile out to get their younger siblings, x-ray Canon QL17 in hand. They wound up calling the police instead, and I was hounded for a week with phonecalls and home visits. Apparently there had been a man spotted photographing through a local school's fence from his car. They came around to my place saying "I suppose you know why you're here..."! Even this was positive in the end; I made friends with them and was invited along to some community meetings.
This has ended up quite long, I'll end it on a happy note. I'm in Cambodia at the moment, and in the last three days I've hung out in the back of a pickup truck outside a Phnom Penh market drinking cheap Cambodian spirits in the day's final light with a group of young drivers, hung out with factory workers in their living quarters above the factory while they had lunch, sat on a street corner with tuk-tuk and cyclo (cycle rickshaw) drivers, and hustled with some street-kids. I speak virtually no Khmer, and all but one tuk-tuk driver and one factory worker spoke virtually no English so the usual ways of meeting people were rather limited.
I'm disappointed I can't share any photos; I'm still a six weeks away from home (Australia), processing, printing, scanning, editing, etc. And I'm itching to see!
EDIT: Wow, this really was long. All this just to say be natural, open, and above all enjoy it. If others become suspicious, continue to be natural and open and if you can enjoy that too....
navilluspm: I'm sorry but I never did comment on your earlier photos. I just wanted to say how much the one of the teenager moved me, and the story behind it really gave us something real to connect with.
kipkeston: I hope I didn't sound discouraging in my initial response. Sometimes it takes a bit to jog a person's perception out of their present rut, and Morca007's comment helped me with that. Now when I look at it, I see something I hadn't seen before. It gives me the feeling like the man is almost watching a movie and not something happening right before his eyes. The fact that he is centered seems to reinforce his disconnection with the scene, as if he's watching from behind a two way mirror.
itf: Wow! It sure sounds like you are having the kind of experience in photography I only dream of having! Being IN the scene, becoming part of the scene until no one gives you a second look. I hope you keepus posted as to when we can view some of what you're capturing!
http://www.pbase.com/marke/image/89100788/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/marke/image/89100789/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/marke/image/89100790/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/marke/image/89095849/original.jpg
itf: Wow! It sure sounds like you are having the kind of experience in photography I only dream of having! Being IN the scene, becoming part of the scene until no one gives you a second look. I hope you keepus posted as to when we can view some of what you're capturing!
Thanks Mark. I'm generally not a particularly outgoing person, though not desperately introverted either. I'm just friendly and interested, people often talk to me first. I hope some of my photos do justice to the times I have when I'm out and about (though I've seen some of my UK photos, which I was happy with), and hopefully I'll have some to show by early next year.
I really like those photos you have. I like the way the series begins by being unclear about what is happening, and progresses to give its answer.
wlewisiii
11-27-2007, 22:27
Fear? Fear is the mind killer. The rest is well near irrelevant.
(No, do not take me seriously. I did 16 years taking Uncle Sam's Dollar. I know all to well what fear means. I just really hate that pos comment that I used, half seriously, above. )
William
Welsh_Italian
11-28-2007, 01:46
Fear is a challenge for my photography. For me, when a picture has people in it, it becomes far more interesting; when they are doing something, this increases. But I'm always concerned about being confronted (though I can talk my way out of most situations) or even getting involved in a fight.
Recently, I went to a market with the intention of taking some pictures for the market's website. So in a way, I had permission and a reason to shoot. That made me feel much better and bolder about doing so. Although it wasn't my first attempt at street photography, it was the first one where I felt comfortable enough to approach people.
Most regular folks seemed confused but also a bit shy that I wanted to take pictures of them, but I wanted to capture something of the left-ish atmosphere of the place (it's an organic foods type market). I asked for permission from the first couple here but the second were just snapped.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2006/1676054174_a3b6fae97e_t.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/salmoni/1676054174/in/set-72157602586495451/)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2066/1675191743_ed44f97ff1_t.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/salmoni/1675191743/in/set-72157602586495451/)
The market traders didn't seem to be in the slightest bit bothered and carried on about their business.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2010/1675181591_73e000ff40_t.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/salmoni/1675181591/in/set-72157602586495451/) (note the people in the background who seem to be watching me - I guess I wasn't as discrete as I thought!)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2383/1676021730_7980ddf584_t.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/salmoni/1676021730/in/set-72157602586495451/)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2130/1675209459_69d5347d29_t.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/salmoni/1675209459/in/set-72157602586495451/)
By the time I left, I was absolutely buzzing and couldn't wait to take more pictures around the city. It certainly helped to increase my confidence in taking pictures of people, and will help me as I seek to learn more about this fascinating artform.
disclaimer - these are DSLR pics (boo! hiss! lol!), but I needed the results to be available quickly.
Matt White
12-14-2007, 16:19
Hi, folks. I'm new to RFF, but I thought I'd share my recent attempt to overcome the fear factor in street photography. I'm mainly a landscapes, wildlife and architecture kind of person - partly because I've always been quite shy about asking strangers if I can take their picture, and nervous about the potential confrontations if I shoot without asking.
So for the past couple of weeks I've been out and about without any film in my camera, just walking around behaving as if I was taking pictures of as many people as I could. The idea of having no film was that I could deal with a confrontation by saying something like: "It's a new camera. I'm just testing the exposure setting, focusing and handling. I didn't notice you in the frame. Terribly sorry. Look, there's not even a film in the camera."
Having that escape route gave me more confidence than I have previously been able to muster in just using the camera openly in the street. I have been able to test different styles and approaches to shooting. And probably the most significant thing for me is that, in openly taking hundreds of non-photos, not one person said or did anything hostile or aggressive. I've had a few puzzled or slightly awkward looks, quite a lot of smiles, and a few pleasant snippets of conversation, but mostly people just didn't notice, or they ignored me. I haven't had to use my pre-prepared explanation at all.
I now have film loaded again and have been shooting for real. It's not quite as easy with a loaded camera; and it's too early to say the exercise has been a complete success, since I don't have much of a collection of real images to show. But still I feel a lot more confident than a month ago. And I can always go back to no film and work out different working methods if the confidence wavers. The only regret I have now is from the thought of all those shots I didn't get because of the absence of film.
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