Ebay win - another rangefinder! [Archive]

ChrisN

09-25-2007, 23:02

And a little different from the rest of the stable. I've been chasing one of these for a while, bid on a few. I missed out on one last night to a late sniper, and I'm glad he beat me! This one comes with a roll-film back. Can anyone tell me more about it from the auction pic?

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50112&d=1190790146

JasonC

09-26-2007, 05:34

Top mounted rangefinder Pacemaker speed graphic with interchangeable cams for different lenses. TRF is the latest model of speed graphic. Could use 90mm to 350mm lenses (I think), the longer lenses being telephoto. The roll film back is an earlier model with knob wind, which usually lacks a roller to keep film flat. The later models with lever wind have the extra roller. More info could be found at www.graflex.org.

Jason.

venchka

09-26-2007, 09:13

Chris,

Nice score! Any clue which lens/shuuter is included? Be prepared to do something about the shutter speeds. If you read my other thread, the speeds can can be way off yet sound ok. Only the light passing through will tell you if the speeds are ok. Otherwise, they are great cameras. Use it like the press camera that it is. Load it up with something like Tri-X and push the daylights out of the film. Maybe you'll get a little grain that way!

Cheers!

shadowfox

09-26-2007, 09:18

Cool! here's a newbie question, are these models portable, meaning they are usable without a tripod?

DougK

09-26-2007, 10:48

That one looks like too much fun.

ChrisN

09-26-2007, 14:42

venchka

09-26-2007, 20:31

Sorry, I only have the 127mm lens at the moment. I'm on the lookout for a Kodak 100mm Wide Field Ektar and maybe the 203mm Ektar. Both fine lenses.

Are they portable? This was THE press camera back in the day. Kitted out with a whacking great flash and bulbs that rivalled the sun and either a Grafmatic back or film pack holder, a good press photographer had all he needed. Stanley Kubric used one before he started making movies.

Abbazz

09-27-2007, 03:16

Thanks people! The seller stated the camera has a "Nova Anastigmat 1:4.5 F75mm" lens, which apparently is not a correct type (and which probably explains the low selling price). So I'll be in the market for a proper lens and shutter, probably (from my research on Graflex.org - thanks Jason) a Kodak Ektar 127mm. Has anyone got a spare?

Chris, I think the lens is a Novar Anastigmat 75/4.5, a good quality triplet lens built by various manufacturers and usually found on 4.5x6cm or 6x6cm folding cameras. So I guess your Speed Graphic is a 3-1/4x4-1/4in. or a 2-1/4x3-1/4in. camera with a 6x6cm rollfilm back. The Novar will not cover anything larger at infinity, even a 6x7 image on rollfilm.

Cheers,

Abbazz

oftheherd

09-27-2007, 03:34

Nice catch! The lens you have should cover the roll film back without any problems, certainly without using movements. I don't know what kind of circle it had, but as I recall, the movements on the weren't too extreme.

Lens prices have gone down just like all other film equipment, but you still have to watch to get the bargains, just like you did to get that baby. Also be prepared to have any used lens CLAd, which at the least will be $65 to $75. You won't know until you test it. Worth it if you get a good enough deal. No matter, I think you are going to like this camera, and will probably use the roll film back more than you might think just to same film costs, and still have a fairly large negative.

ChrisN

09-27-2007, 03:57

Hi Abbazz - I can't be certain about the format until it arrives, but I'm hoping it's a 5x4. I've just enlarged the pic on my screen and measured the matchbox, which is 53mm long in real life. Extrapolating that to the apparent length of the board carrying the roll-film holder makes it pretty close to 175mm or 6.9 inches long. What format would that make it? I suspect the Novar lens might be a ring-in. I'll learn more next week when the camera arrives. In any event I wanted to mostly use roll film, so I'll have some fun!

And talking of medium-format folding rangefinders, have a look at this beauty on ebay! (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190156852231&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009) I didn't realise Linhof made a camera in 2x3.

Abbazz

09-27-2007, 04:39

Chris, the auction picture is rather small and blurry, so it's hard to tell which model it actually is. The 4x5 is much more interesting, because you'll be able to use sheet film. On the other hand, if it's a 3-1/4x4-1/4 (http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/graphic-3x4.html), you should be able to sell the rollfilm back alone for the price that you paid for the whole set.

As for the rollfilm back, to me it looks like a "22" model (http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/accessories.html#RollFilmBacks), an early model offering 12 6x6 exposures on 120 film.

Cheers!

Abbazz

Mr_Flibble

09-27-2007, 04:48

I'm positive that it's a 4x5, the roll film holder is on a 4x5 board too.

You can always set the front shutter to B and the focalplane shutter to T and have a look at the groundglass to see if the lens covers everything properly.
Great way to check if the cam/rangefinder are in working order too.

If the roll film holder is a Graflex 23, it's for 6x9cm images on 120 film. I've got one of those too. It's a bit fiddly to load but apart from that it's a great way to get more use out of your Graflex. I've not had any problems with film not being held flat in the holder.

If you want to shoot 'vintage' looking photos I can suggest Adox or Fomapan film which are made using their original 1950s recipies.

And no, you don't need a tripod to shoot with these cameras, but they help ;)

Anyways, looks like you got a nice deal. Good luck!

wlewisiii

09-27-2007, 05:14

Just look at the size of the match box... it's a 4x5. Find a 127/4.7 Ektar and you'll be on a very slippery slope. The first time you see a 4x5 neg is bad but if you ever want your wallet to survive never look at a 4x5 transparency :eek:

Enjoy! The speeds are a whole lot of fun.

William

ChrisN

09-27-2007, 05:34

Thanks again, guys! This waiting is gonna' kill me! Cheers!

shadowfox

09-27-2007, 07:41

oftheherd

09-27-2007, 07:54

Ok, I'll risk my wallet, please tell me where I can see a sample of 4x5 positive. :D

Don't!!!! You'll be sorry. :D :D :D

Mr_Flibble

09-27-2007, 08:11

WWII dated ones over at Shorpy - The 100-year old Photo Blog (www.Shorpy.com)

Fort Knox 1942 (http://www.shorpy.com/node/1283?size=_original)

Madonna of the Sandbags (http://www.shorpy.com/node/871?size=_original)

Art Star: 1943 (http://www.shorpy.com/node/860?size=_original)

All are Kodachrome transparency by Alfred Palmer.

shadowfox

09-28-2007, 11:04

Rick, thanks... those pictures are so awesome, the color seems to not fade with time at all.

venchka

09-28-2007, 17:19

That is the way of Kodachrome. We've lost a national treasure. What will folks 100 years from now be looking at? Error messages from CD & DVD backups of digital pictures? Oh, and they will also be looking at siver gelatin prints and Kodachrome originals from the 19th & 20th century.

Thus concludes the rant for today. We now return to our original programming.

120 Velvia, Provia and Ektachrome will be plenty good enough on the back of the Speed Graphic.

I concur. The body & the holders behind it and the roll film back all say 4x5 to my eyes. I suppose the 76mm lens was set up for roll film only. I'm surprised the 75mm lens focuses on a 4x5 Speed. If it works, that's very close to the minimum focal length you can use on the camera.

venchka

09-28-2007, 17:23

ps: The Baby Linhofs are cute, huh? They seem to be more common on ebay than the 4x5s. Maybe because folks still use the 4x5 Linhofs.

DrLeoB

09-28-2007, 18:08

Chris -
Whan I took photography at Livermore H/S in California, in 1962 various versions of this camera and the Crown graphic were used as the standard teaching camera. I still love 'em. I, too, have been trying to pick one up... so far not successful.

I used mine at the time, as a sports photog. for the school newspaper and shot with a HUGE megablitz flash, all handheld, night shots with TRI-X pushed to 1600 and developed in hot microdol or acufine. Just a little shove.... great, intense grain and really black blacks.

Loved it.

DrLeoB

09-28-2007, 18:21

Hmmm... in thinking, I also remember shooting 120? Ektachrome and mounting these huge slides 2x2?

ChrisN

09-28-2007, 18:27

Hi Wayne - I'm an absolute newbie to large format, but from my intense reading these last few days, gleaning everything I can from the web, I think you're right about that 75mm lens. Even for 6x9 that gives about a 62 dedgree field of view, equivalent to a 30mm focal length on a 35mm camera. On 4x5 it would give about 81 degrees, or equivalent to a 21 on 35mm! Interesting, but I think I need something closer to a "normal" perspective to start with.

And yeah, that baby Linhof. I have a serious weakness for toys like that; old, mechanical, finely-made stuff. Luckily I'm down on spending money this week!

Leo - Keep trying! I've read posts by people asking about how to get apparent grain with 4x5, and your technique would seem to give the answer. I've got a big Metz handlebar flash, but I'm thinking even that will be dwarfed by this camera!

ChrisN

09-28-2007, 19:03

Some of my research:

Pacific Rim has a good page on backs, at http://www.pacificrimcamera.com/pp/graflex/backs.htm.

And Karen Nakamura has some good pics of her 3x4 Graphic at http://www.photoethnography.com/ClassicCameras/index-frameset.html?SpeedGraphic.html~mainFrame . From looking at the pleats in the bellows of her camera, I think mine has more pleats - longer bellows and therefore the bigger 4x5 (hopefully!).

venchka

09-28-2007, 19:10

Stop worrying. Start working out. It's a 4x5.

ChrisN

09-28-2007, 19:15

Yeah, I know, I'll think of something else to worry about! I wonder what cam is in the rangefinder - what lens was supposed to be on the camera? Apart from checking focus via the ground glass with any particular lens, are the cams marked for a particular length?

DougK

10-01-2007, 11:29

Mr_Flibble

10-01-2007, 12:03

Yeah, sorry about that....

As your wife is going kill you anyway, you might as well have a look at some of the pictures taken by Jack Delano on that website. ;)

DougK

10-01-2007, 15:57

Yeah, sorry about that....

As your wife is going kill you anyway, you might as well have a look at some of the pictures taken by Jack Delano on that website. ;)
I'm safe...for now. I showed her both the Alfred Palmer and the Jack Delano pictures and she was blown away. Now I can start working on my evil master plan to acquire a LF camera MWA-HA-HA-HA!!

EDIT: Sorry, too much chocolate and caffeine there. I'm better now.

venchka

10-02-2007, 04:24

I'm safe...for now. I showed her both the Alfred Palmer and the Jack Delano pictures and she was blown away. Now I can start working on my evil master plan to acquire a LF camera MWA-HA-HA-HA!!

EDIT: Sorry, too much chocolate and caffeine there. I'm better now.

You won't be sorry. Kodachrome sheet film is gone. The good news is that Fujichrome and Ektachrome are still around. Home processing of E-6 film isn't too hard to do. There are lots of B&W sheet film emulsions too.

Get a Grafmatic holder. Get several. They are the greatest thing since sliced bread. :D A Grafmatic back on a Graphic camera with a properly calibrated rangefinder is a liberating experience. Can you say 4x5 point & shoot? :eek: :D :cool:

ChrisN

10-03-2007, 15:28

Well, it arrived! It is a 4x5, as confidently predicted above by several members. It seems to be complete, right down to the (unsuitable) 75mm Nova Anastigmat lens, which will soon be replaced with a 127 Ektar. It does have some pinholes at the corners in the bellows, which I'll patch with Liquid Electrical Tape. I've also got some 4x5 sheet film on the way, but I don't know how I'm going to develop it!

I'll burn a roll of 120 through it today in the roll-film holder, to see if the shutter speeds are anything like they should be. The rangefinder is cammed for a 127mm lens, so with the 75 I'll have to focus on the ground glass. And I have my doubts about the 75mm lens - one of the elements is rattling loose inside! This is going to be interesting!

Mr_Flibble

10-03-2007, 22:48

Good luck,

How are the focal-plane shutter speeds? Those on my Crown Graphic are slow. I think someone left it in the c*cked position for too long. So I mainly use the lens shutter.

Practicing the routine for making exposures is a good idea too. So many easily forgettable steps ;) I confess I've forgotten a few when I was in a rush to get a picture.

ChrisN

10-04-2007, 03:22

Just rinsed the roll and hung it up to dry. You are certainly right about the "easily forgettable steps"! I think I'm lucky there's only one completely blank frame on the roll! I probably forgot to pull the dark slide! Won't be the last time either, I'll warrant!

The negs all look a little dark, so I think the shutter is a little slow. And as for that lens - I think some of the elements must be in backwards! Only the f/22 shot is anything near sharp, and even that's pretty blurred! I'll scan them in the morning, just for posterity, but I'm not expecting any keepers!

ChrisN

10-04-2007, 19:04

Shutter speeds ok, both focal plans shutter and in-lens shutter. But the lens performance is something else! OK, here's the evidence.

1st shot, lens wide open at f/4.5, and 1/1000.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50457&d=1191553438

2nd shot with the lens closed down to f/16.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50458&d=1191553453

Another shot at f/16 with the focal plane shutter at 1/50.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50459&d=1191553468

I think this will be a lens for special occasions!

mikeb380

10-04-2007, 19:13

Cool! here's a newbie question, are these models portable, meaning they are usable without a tripod?

My first camera was a speed graphic and I carried it all over, including the top of the Washingtom Monument and all without a tripod. I even shot sports photos with it using sheet film. I didn't know any better.

:cool:

cmogi10

10-04-2007, 19:13

looks like a noctilux =D

Mr_Flibble

10-04-2007, 22:37

Wow...some far out photos there. I'm pretty sure the lose lens element is to blame.

Good thing you won that Ektar lens Chris ;) I also have an Ektar on my Crown Graphic. Quite pleased with what it can do.

My old scanner didn't really do the photo any justice (perhaps one day I'll rescan them with my new one)

http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/achterhoek03a.jpg

http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/graflex4a.jpg
(yeah yeah, that thing's heavy....sorry for tilting)

ChrisN

10-05-2007, 00:01

Interesting shots there, Rick. Military re-enactment?

Mr_Flibble

10-05-2007, 00:35

Yes, I do the Living History thing every few weeks. I sometimes dress up as a US Army War Correspondent Photographer and use some of my vintage cameras. I used the Crown Graphic before I got a 1945-dated Speed Graphic.

The first image was taken on the parking lot of the 40-45 Museum in Hengelo (NL), the other was taken in the Vehicle Park of the Royal Dutch Engineer Museum in Vught (NL) on a training day.

ChrisN

10-12-2007, 22:40

The 127 Ektar lens arrived, so I tested it yesterday with another roll through the roll-film holder. Big improvement over the previous effort, but I might have a little of the "film flatness" issue that is often mentioned wrt the roll-film holder.

I'm really looking forward to shooting some 4x5 with this, but I need to wait until I have the gear to develop the film!

venchka

10-13-2007, 18:03

Those are very good photgraphs! That's a seriously nice lens! I hope my 1953 version is as good. I hope my vision is half as good. I have seriously procrastinated using my Graphic & Ektar. I must shoot 4x5!

DougK

10-14-2007, 18:06

Nice work, Chris!

Mr_Flibble

10-14-2007, 21:45

Nice work indeed.

ChrisN

10-14-2007, 22:59

Thanks, Wayne, Doug and Rick - I need all the encouragement I can get!

Sitemistic - I'm interested in your using the camera as a field camera, but with roll film. Now I'm a total novice in this area - what does "field camera" imply? In the little reading I've done so far this makes me think of a camera used in a very deliberate and considered way, with tripod, and probably using movements to control the plane of focus to achieve a deliberately planned image result. That also seems to imply using sheet film, to get the biggest possible negative to play with/on. Yet you are choosing roll film - why?

Any I think you are right - I will enjoy learning how to use this camera. Already I love its brutal simplicity and the fact that it does none of the thinking for me. Cheers!