Fsu?

[nikonhswebmaster]

Out of curiosity, I notice everyone uses FSU, but none these cameras were produced after the collapse of the Soviet Union were they? I thought all of them were made in the Soviet Union?

Or were some of these cameras made in FSU countries (after 1991)?

[kb244]

Its a past tense reference. The Soviet Union is no more, so the cameras are called "Former" Soviet Union.

The existing countries are not called Former Soviet union, but rather their new respective names. They are not exactly The Artist Formerly Known As Prince.

[kb244]

A better analogy. We do not refer to products made currently in the southern half of the US as "Made in the Former Confederacy" .

[nikonhswebmaster]

A better analogy. We do not refer to products made currently in the southern half of the US as "Made in the Former Confederacy" .

Everyone is getting it backwards. If something was made in the Confederate States of America (1861 and 1865), we don't say it was made in the USA. We say this object was made in the Confederacy, which then gives it a place and a time.

Referring to something as being made in the FSU gives it only a place, without a period of time.

From 1861 to 1865 there was no USA in the south.

In fact in the case of Contax and Contax copies there would seem to be cameras made in

1) Germany
2) Soviet occupation zone of Germany
3) German Democratic Republic
4) USSR
5) FSU
6) Japan

No Question they were made in the first 4 countries but were they (contax copies) ever made in #5?

[wolves3012]

I think the term FSU just loosely applies to FED, Zorki, Kiev etc cameras that were made in what was (hence former) Soviet Union. I don't think anyone's claiming it's an exact and always-accurate definition. Rather like the current term "carbon emissions" is actually quite wrong - carbon comes as soot, graphite or diamond, none of which are emitted into the air (well soot may be but not in this context).

[kb244]

Everyone is getting it backwards. If something was made in the Confederate States of America (1861 and 1865), we don't say it was made in the USA. We say this object was made in the Confederacy, which then gives it a place and a time.

Referring to something as being made in the FSU gives it only a place, without a period of time.

From 1861 to 1865 there was no USA in the south.

In fact in the case of Contax and Contax copies there would seem to be cameras made in

1) Germany
2) Soviet occupation zone of Germany
3) German Democratic Republic
4) USSR
5) FSU
6) Japan

No Question they were made in the first 4 countries but were they (contax copies) ever made in #5?
I don't think I Got it backwards, I said it exactly as you explained it.

[Jocko]

Wolves is absolutely right - the term is basically an attempt to set the cameras in historical context.
In the 1970s, when "Soviet Union" carried obvious political connotations, the (Soviet owned) British importers sold Zenits, Zorkis, Kievs and FEDs as "Russian cameras" - as in the leaflet below. "Russia" always had more positive appeal.

But many of these were not in any sense Russian cameras. Kievs and FEDs were made in Ukraine, some Zenits came from Belarus.... despite distinctive national photographic industries, they were all essentially Soviet products. With the end of the USSR they were still cameras being produced in all these places - usually exactly the same cameras - FED RFs were in production until the late 90s. It would be curious to pretend that they were suddenly the distinctive modern products of independent states - until new designs emerged, they were, in effect, the economic heritage of the former Soviet Union - FSUs, and the term became an effective shorthand for "Soviet Cameras".

Cheers, Ian

[ruben]

Out of curiosity, I notice everyone uses FSU, but none these cameras were produced after the collapse of the Soviet Union were they? I thought all of them were made in the Soviet Union?

Or were some of these cameras made in FSU countries (after 1991)?


I am working hard to understand the above statement or question, and I cannot manage to get out of the circle beyond the very obvious.

But if you want a Russian camera produced after the collapse of the Soviet Union, then you can buy a panoramic Horizon, being produced nowadays at the KMZ (Krasnogorsk Mekhanichesky Zavod) factory.

These extremely convenient cameras have been subject of several threads at RFF. You can search at RFF.

For more info about the many different types of Horizon, the KMZ English site is http://www.zenit-foto.ru/english/

As for cameras we usually refer as manufactured at the FSU, they indeed were manufactured at the FSU.

The term "FSU" does not apply to the Eastern European countries once formally allyied to the Soviet Union through the Warsaw Pact, but to the several countries that before-during-after the collapse of the Soviet Union were integral part of the same political-economical unit known as "The Soviet Union of Socialist Republics" (USSR).

Therefore, in my opinion, when we use the term "FSU" to refer to the origin of the FSU cameras, we are using an accurate term.

Personally I prefer to call a Soviet turret finder as a "Soviet" one. But I can live with the sensibilities this may imply for some members too.

Cheers,
Ruben

[xayraa33]

some Fed 5s with I 61 l/d lenses were still made in 1992/93.
Zenits SLRs were made much later than 1991.
MF Kievs and 35mm SLR Kievs also made after 1991.
the panoramic cameras could very well be made as of this very moment.

[gb hill]

I think what moof is getting at is this. Take my Zorki 2c for instance. This camera was manufactured in 1958 according to the serial # on the camera. That being the case then am I correct in calling it a Former Soviet Union camera? I say both yes & no. No in the fact that at the time of manufacture there was no FSU but the USSR. Yes because at the present we are now living in the FSU era.

[Paul T.]

They were made in a country which does not now exist. The country was then called the Soviet Union. It is now termed the Former Soviet Union and the description is accurate.

It is like saying that Saturn 5 rockets were launched from a location then known as Cape Kennedy, which is more informative than telling us they were launched from Cape Canaveral.

[USSRPhoto]

A few more cameras to mention manufactured past the collapse of USSR: Kiev 35A, Zenit Photosniper FS-122, some Elikons, Smena 8M, Zenit 620, Kiev 19 and 19M, the Zenit SLRs at BelOMO, the LOMO LC-A+(but assembled in China), FED Boy, probably forgetting a few more....

[kiev4a]

My only question is why the deserves this much discussion?

[NIKON KIU]

My only question is why the deserves this much discussion?

Where else would one go for such discussions?

Kiu

[ed1k]

It's kinda funny how people get it backward and do not realise it :) My Kievs 4a and 4 are both Soviet cameras, not former Soviet Union cameras, they made in USSR, period. My friend has Kiev 19 which could be considered as former Soviet Union camera, because it was designed in USSR and manufactured in Ukraine in 1996, which is _former_ Soviet republic but independent state now. Apparently I don't see anything wrong with calling this Kiev-19 an Ukrainian camera.
And final point, I don't care how it's called FSU or Soviet cameras, I appreciate the fact that there is this forum where we can discuss this gear.

[ruben]

..........

From 1861 to 1865 there was no USA in the south...........




From 1861 to 1865 there was a civil war to decide the fate of the South. To state that "there was no USA in the south" is not enough to base oneself on the viewpoints, political organs, and army of the slave owners, for the simple reason they were a tiny minority among the overall black majority.

A tiny minority even smaller within the whole US population before-during and after the war.

In any case the Soviet Union went through the opposite process. It got the heritage of the former Czarist regime, and after some 70 years of dictatorship disintegrated. Peacefully by the way.

Cheers,
Ruben

[DrLeoB]

I'm with Ed1k ... but go one step further these are in face "CCCP or SSSR" cameras for ...

Soyuz Sovetskiix Sotsialisticheskix Respublik

Union of Soviet Socialist Republics

.... and ever deeper we spiral....

[lushd]

Well, I don't know about anyone else but this conversation stirs my inner pedant. Quite enjoyable really. For me - cameras made in the 15 Republics of the USSR up to 1991 were made in the USSR (I can be sure of this because it says so on the body of most of them). After that, some the same models were made in Russia or Ukraine or Belarus or whichever country the factories found themselves in. There was never a country called the Former Soviet Union so it can't have had a camera industry. However, FSU is a useful shorthand term for a number of countries that occupy a geographical area that was once called the USSR and which have a shared history and cultural and economic approach to manufacturing that did not entirely vanish in 1991. You can tell I work in education, can't you?

[Jocko]

Donald, you are very clever and right :)

Cheers, ian

[Spider67]

Hmmmmmmmm and I thought the acronym meant For Sophisticated Users..or was it Strange Users?

[lushd]

Blush! It's just the sort of comment I would have liked to write on an essay!

[Jocko]

Forsaken Social Unmentionables :( That's us, that is :(

Lamentably, Ian :(

[lushd]

For Sale, Usually

[shadowfox]

For those who hate FSU cameras:

Frankly Seldom Used

For those who like them:

Fiddly, Satisfying, Unique