View Full Version : RB67 users -- how big IS this thing really?
It looks like I might be trading some unwanted gear for an RB67 with the 90mm Sekor-C and a 250/4.5 The guy I'm trading with sent me a picture of the beast. I knew the RB67 was big, but :eek:
Is a rig like this even REMOTELY possible to use off a tripod? Would it possiby be useable on a monopod? I gather handheld is right out :rolleyes:
Either way, hope the trade works out... I'll probably ebay the C330 I picked up for cheap since this monster is more suitable for what I want to do.
http://www.beyondthematrix.com/cam.jpg
Well, if you could mount a lens on an anvil......
I had a Mamiya C3 (r.i.p.) and sort of assumed that the RB67 was around the same size as a horizontal one of those. But the lens, and hood, does stick out a bit too . . .
Do you need to look for a small crane ? ;)
Alternatively, there is still a lot of information about these things on the Mamiya website. I would have a look for the specifications link, but it is after 01:15 here and I have to get up early, sorry.
stealthy street shooter it's not! :)
KoNickon
09-05-2007, 15:26
I've used mine handheld several times. A leaf shutter and no instant return mirror helps reduce shake, as does the weight of it. Craig Nelson, who owns the nelsonfoto forum, has taken a number of excellent handheld street portraits that he's posted there recently. But you need to heft it yourself to decide if you can tote it around OK.
stealthy street shooter it's not! :)
I thought about it for street shooting and just had this vision of wielding it like a Gatling gun, with people screaming "TERRORIST" and running for the hills.
Looks a bit like a bazooka or grenade-launcher. :)
Roger Vadim
09-05-2007, 15:34
It is massive! The main problem is the weight. (around 6 pounds without the prism) you can handhold it, but because of the massive mirror slap you'll need at least 1/125 sec. - better more.
My advice is to look for a L-grip, made for the c-series which you can also use for the RB. It helps a lot. You also need the strap. Rest the thing on your belly and shoot... works nice, but gets heavy after a while. I also have the prism, and that combination is really too heavy.
So handholding is dev. possible, to me the annoing thing is to lug the gear around without an assistant, because of size and weight...
it is a very nice camera. tack sharp. For grown ups... you'll like it!
Ronald M
09-05-2007, 15:49
It is a tripod camera unless situation is dire. Prerelease the mirror.
PICS ARE GREAT if you can control the beast
I've used RB67 with a 90mm mounted on it. I had a motor-winder and mounted flash and prism finder. I'm average to slight build, and I found it got heavy pretty quickly.
I wouldn't consider hand holding based on that picture!!
As I recall the RB67 required cocking the shutter with the side lever and advancing the film with the lever on the back. Both are separate actions that have to be preformed, thus a film advance winder is handy for any fast work
This was because the back revolves to switch between horizontal and vertical frames and the shutter/film advance linkage was probably tricky to design.
The RZ67 did film advance and shutter cocking in one action with the revolving back
Although the images it produces are excellent. The camera itself can be a bit of a pig to use. I have known people who have used them hand held on a daily basis doing weddings and other commercial work, but I wasn't one of them!!
I have one with the L shape handgrip, yes you can hand hold it, but preferably with the 90 lens. The picture shows the 250, you probably will struggle with that lens on it. The shutter speed needs to be up at 1/125 or above, although I have got a couple of reasonable shots at slower speeds to work, resting against my body.
Just remember not to hand hold for too long, as the muscle tremors it induces will prevent you from holding it at all. IT is heavy to lug around.
Thanks all. :) I think I'll probably just drag a tripod around. Hoping I'll get it pretty quick so I can go shoot some chromes when the leaves turn here in GA... 6x7 chromes....hoo boy
erikhaugsby
09-05-2007, 16:12
With something like that you may as well go for large format. It'd probably be cheaper, too (equipment-wise, not film-wise). :eek:
With something like that you may as well go for large format. It'd probably be cheaper, too (equipment-wise, not film-wise). :eek:
Not for what I'm getting this guy for :D
I did use 4x5 in the past, and while I enjoyed it greatly I'd just rather shoot 120 for now... maybe in the future I'll get back to sheets.
BrianPhotog
09-05-2007, 17:00
I used to have a RB67 Pro-S with a couple of lenses (90, 180, and 250). I switched to large format (4x5) because I could get larger negs for less weight. :p
rogue_designer
09-05-2007, 17:01
I split the difference and got a Horseman VHR, 120 + movements.
We used to call the RB67 the cinderblock. Never really used it off tripod for my uses didn't need to.
NelsonFoto
09-05-2007, 19:35
I love my RB. With 90mm and a bit of extension, it's a lovely beast! Even hand-held. Samples of the latter, below.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1111/1019701659_30da9ea46a.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1096/843593450_73bcb3aaa1.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1329/933102939_6fd7646375.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1165/1190413844_cb1ca60382.jpg
And on a tri-pod? Next to godliness.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1154/1190403176_86e69e2937.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1043/1189537611_8e735b32b6.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1185/1190402398_ad025a6f29.jpg
The RB is an amazing beast. Great landscape camera. I packed one with a 127 and a 65 around Yellowstone. I ended up selling it to the owner of a studio I worked for. It financed my F2 system. Get the L grip and a good strap and you shouldn't have too much of a problem. I also used this setup for weddings sans tripod with a Graflex strobe. What a work out!
Your gadget bag needs wheels like gulf club bag and a ramp to get it back into the vehicle. four lenses, several backs and several filters and it is 2 cub feet g bag.
Noel
Are you saying I ought to look for a caddy? :)
spyder2000
09-06-2007, 05:07
The rb is a great camera and really best used on a tripod. You do know the picture is the camera with the 250 lens on it, right? That combination isn't very hand holdable but the 90 is. It's heavy, a little ungainly, and not very quick due to the separate body/film mechanisms.
Yeah, I know the 90 is a little more "compact" though that is clearly a relative term when dealing with these things.
Likely I will use it for macros and nature stuff, but was curious as to if it was even possible to try hand holding such a monster. :) Sounds like with a little effort and a good strap it might be... was reading up on the progressive mirror braking system which is supposed to reduce vibrations from mirror slap; no idea how much of a difference it makes though some claim it is outstanding.
NelsonFoto
09-06-2007, 07:35
I can tell you how well that mirror performs.... all the handheld shots, above, are shot at f5,6 and 1/15th to 1/30th of a second.
It's big and heavy, is all what I can say. A couple of friends used to shoot with an RB--they were the strong and the brave.:)
Are you saying I ought to look for a caddy? :)
The case I used was impossible to move when you load the camera and lenses, into it, without a hand trolly (sack barrow). You load in to in the trunk (boot) ofauto empty and then load the equipment into case.
Noel
I can tell you how well that mirror performs.... all the handheld shots, above, are shot at f5,6 and 1/15th to 1/30th of a second.
That's plain amazing. The shots are gorgeous, and handholding that monster at 1/15 blows my mind. :) Thanks!
NelsonFoto
09-06-2007, 09:13
It bears mentioning that I am big fellow, can easily palm the RB67, focus it, and fire it, in one hand. Wouldn't be worth doing with the 90mm, but I have a 50mm on loan that would work nicely under such conditions, hyperfocal'd and sweeping the streets.
Well you can use it hand held, or supported with the strap or with a grip, but the camera is designed for f/32 or f/45 off a solid tripod, with the twin release, and sloooow speeds... the mirror does not seem to cause much of a problem for snaps
It is not like stuffing a leicia II into jacket pocket.
Noel
NelsonFoto
09-06-2007, 10:28
Indeed, it's not a Leica.
As for the design intent, I would respectfully disagree with that point. Even if there was clear evidence that engineering intended for the camera to be shot as you have suggested, I can't think of any reason why such a design philosophy would be employed.
True, the lenses are superb throughout the aperture range. The 50mm is, as I am told, legendary for its ability to focus at what... 1/2' to infinity?, at f32? But for the longer lenses, I'm going after portraits and bokeh, and I need nothing beyond f5.6, and that supplies me all the sharpness I need, where I need it, for effect, which in my case means an inch or so of DOF, if that.
The shots of the sisters and the children, done with a tripod, were f8-f11, but I needed increased DOF based on the compositions.
I think the RB is quite versatile. I can easily hump a large Lowes bag with the body (1 back) and two lenses, a Luna Pro meter (I take incident reads for all scenes) and 10 rolls of Acros 120. It's a heavy pack, but I can't complain for the output. No pain, no gain.
:)
Nuts is when I pack my Besseler backpack with the F4s, the D70s, the Tamron 28-75, a Nikon AF 18-35, all in the bottom section, the RB67 with the 90mm on it in the top section, and side pockets full of film, meter in the front pouch along with whatever else I need. Nuts, I say. Nuts. But it works.
C.
NelsonFoto
09-06-2007, 10:32
Speaking of the 50mm...
http://nelsonfoto.com/mein/2007/08/27/50mm/03.jpg
http://nelsonfoto.com/mein/2007/08/27/50mm/04.jpg
http://nelsonfoto.com/mein/2007/08/27/50mm/06.jpg
I disagree with the design intent. Certainly the lenses were not designed to only be use at f/32 or smaller. Yes it is a big camera, but it can easily be used handheld. Too big and heavy for me, but not for everyone.
Anybody have any samples from the 250mm lens? I was looking at the DOF calculators and it looks like it could make an awesome landscape lens as long as your subject isn't too close. :)
Hey we are agreeing with one another
If you want to use it like a 35mm you can use it slow like a OM1, the mirror is not all that bad!
If you want a poster out of doors from 1ft to infinity, then you do need a tripod and the lens stopped down, note only the longs have f/45? Sometimes a landscape needs a long for the perspective.
It is a real challenge to take one hill walking, Barnack designed the leica prototype for his hill walking. Some times I take my c330 for a walk, never the 6x7.
Noel
Joe Brugger
09-06-2007, 11:30
I knew the RB67 was big, but :eek:
Is a rig like this even REMOTELY possible to use off a tripod? Would it possiby be useable on a monopod?
How much weight can you curl? With the right prism a monopod would be possible, but top-heavy. You'll need a sturdy tripod and a pretty good head for the best results. The controls aren't really set up for hand-holding.
It works ok hand held, it is moving it to the next shot that is a problem. the whole 9 yards is easy a few miles on foot will be more difficult.
It is bigger then a C330, noisier and you cannot attempt 1/15, unless you prerelease, the simple hood/finder is easy to use.
Noel
RObert Budding
09-06-2007, 13:11
It's much easier to hand-hold a Crown Graphic. And you get 4x5 negs.
And it must be lighter as well but the SLR is a lot faster, the 6x7 with the motor is not a video camera but you can keep up with the Hindenburg landing.
Noel
Annie Leibovitz uses an RZ handheld at times.
NelsonFoto
09-06-2007, 14:21
It works ok hand held, it is moving it to the next shot that is a problem. the whole 9 yards is easy a few miles on foot will be more difficult.
It is bigger then a C330, noisier and you cannot attempt 1/15, unless you prerelease, the simple hood/finder is easy to use.
Noel
The 1/15th bit is positively false. I have and will shoot mine with the 90mm at 1/15th with nice results. If one has the beef to handle the camera, it is doable. The mirror is well-designed, and I am duly impressed by it.
NelsonFoto
09-06-2007, 14:25
Annie Leibovitz uses an RZ handheld at times.
The RZ is large, but from what I understand, not nearly as heavy as the RB, which apparently - like the Nikon F4S - was built to survive Armageddon.
:)
'you cannot attempt 1/15,'
Ok let me try 'Ive tried it and I cannot get it to work at 1/15, I prelease if I need 1/15.' I accept you may do better. I use a single cable and the release on the grip...
Noel
It's much easier to hand-hold a Crown Graphic. And you get 4x5 negs.
Thanks -- however, I posted this thread because I wanted some information on the RB67, not opinions on what I should have gotten instead.
Sorry if this comes across as rude, but this is about the third time I've heard it. I decided on an RB67 because it fits my needs (macros, fine art, landscape) and now I wanted to know if it was workable as a handheld unit because of its impressive girth. I didn't pick one up hoping I could swing it around like a Leica, this is more a case of curiousity as to how well it would work in such a scenario. I have plenty other gear to use for handheld shooting.
cmedin
It works real well as a hand held, strap, grip, and cable release optional.
It is a bit slow without the motor option, and 220 film is preferred, as you will be swapping backs pretty frequent otherwise.
If you are going to do posters then you will be amazed by the lens quality, I always do a sequence to avoid any film flatness problems. Load a 220 into one back shoot it all off.
It will work in zero conditions it does not get real cold here.
Noel
Roger Vadim
09-06-2007, 14:55
Hither, these are wonderfull pictures, and I am amazed that you shoot them with a 1/30. I use the 127 Kl lens (just bought the 50 but it is not here yet...) but my attempts below 125 are somehow shaky. You really encouraged me to work on my technique.
Can the damping of the Mirror go sloppy? If you've got the magic trick let us know, please!
Maybe i should try the 90 for handholding...
Tommorow will be rangefinder day, I promise;)
Michael
The RB has a large mirror, but the camera has a lot of mass and therefore inertia. It is well designed and I could believe slow shutter speeds are possible. I used one 20 years ago or so and I had no problems holding it - I don't really remember the exposure times then.
I don't have one because it is simply too big and heavy. Not because it was a bad camera.
Looking through the manual Mamiya is bragging about a centrifugal braking system for the mirror that virtually eliminates the problem of mirror slap... then they go on to explain how you use the mirror lockup to reduce vibration. :)
cmedin
It is an option, you can get their double remote release as well.
The mirror is big and it is pretty good, the vibration problem on my shots does not seem to be much worse then with a OM1, it is not bad.
It depende what sort of shots you are doing, e.g. if you are waiting for a bird to land on a feeding table, you can prerelease, after you focus and the bird may stay for a second shot cause the mirror makes a zing thwack.
Noel
cmedin
It is an option, you can get their double remote release as well.
The mirror is big and it is pretty good, the vibration problem on my shots does not seem to be much worse then with a OM1, it is not bad.
It depende what sort of shots you are doing, e.g. if you are waiting for a bird to land on a feeding table, you can prerelease, after you focus and the bird may stay for a second shot cause the mirror makes a zing thwack.
Noel
Thanks! Would somebody mind explaining the double release? I was reading through the manual and noticed that you have to use a cable release on the lens shutter if you use MLU, but didn't see anything about the double one...
The double release allows you to lock up the mirror , and then after all vibration has ceased to fire the shutter. I use the single (regular) release because it is much cheaper.
DL the manual from Mamiya.
I just weighed my RZ II, with the AE Prism II attached, 7 pounds even.
Oh yeah, you already have a manual. I saw those double releases on ebay and places like BHphoto. They cost much more than the normal cable release.
NelsonFoto
09-06-2007, 18:42
Hither, these are wonderfull pictures, and I am amazed that you shoot them with a 1/30. I use the 127 Kl lens (just bought the 50 but it is not here yet...) but my attempts below 125 are somehow shaky. You really encouraged me to work on my technique.
Can the damping of the Mirror go sloppy? If you've got the magic trick let us know, please!
Maybe i should try the 90 for handholding...
Tommorow will be rangefinder day, I promise;)
Michael
Michael,
Nothing fancy to my technique. I hold the camera firmly, but not so firmly I provoke muscle-fatigue, and then shake. I basically apply just enough elbowgrease to counter the camera's weight, and I squeeeeze of the shot using the body release. I do not pop the shutter, or otherwise strongarm the shot, and that further reduces movement. I think, ultimately, one learns to relax. I can hold 1-sec exposure on 35mm F4s, another heavy rig, most of the time, with good results. I never use straps. I never use grips.
I shoot Acros, rated 200.
Craig
NelsonFoto
09-06-2007, 18:42
'you cannot attempt 1/15,'
Ok let me try 'Ive tried it and I cannot get it to work at 1/15, I prelease if I need 1/15.' I accept you may do better. I use a single cable and the release on the grip...
Noel
Fair enough.
Cheers!
C.
nikon_sam
09-07-2007, 14:16
I just bought a Mamiya m645 1000s (UPS delivered it last Friday) with a 80mm 1.9 and then added a 150mm 3.5 lens...
The size/style of these cameras take some getting used to...The 645 is smaller than the RB67 so I can only imagine what that's like...I have shot two rolls so far and everything looks good so far...I just resealed the rear door today (no light leaks just very gummy and falling apart) so it's all ready to go...
You do tend to shoot slower with this format so a tripod isn't a bad thing here...
I had a 645E with the rapid grip some years ago, and I found it to act pretty much like a slightly oversized 35mm SLR camera. It was really nice to shoot, but the mirror slap was pretty rough on it if memory serves... the 80/2.8 lens on it was incredible though, I was absolutely blown away by the prints I made from those negs. :)
Michiel Fokkema
09-07-2007, 15:14
Hi,
i love the RB. But it is big. i also have a hasselbld now. It is much smaller but I think the RB is better hand holdable.
Here a two portraits of my daughters handhold with the 140mm http://michielfokkema.wordpress.com/picture-a-week-2006/week-17/
cheers,
Michiel Fokkema
Michiel, beautiful shots. Did you use any filters?
I thought this might be of interest.
From Mamiya Medium Format Systems by Bob Shell :D
Michiel Fokkema
09-07-2007, 16:05
Michiel, beautiful shots. Did you use any filters?
No filters.
Just filtered light in the back garden.
cheers,
Michiel
NelsonFoto
09-07-2007, 16:35
Hi,
i love the RB. But it is big. i also have a hasselbld now. It is much smaller but I think the RB is better hand holdable.
Here a two portraits of my daughters handhold with the 140mm http://michielfokkema.wordpress.com/picture-a-week-2006/week-17/
cheers,
Michiel Fokkema
Splendid shots. Further proving my point.
Thanks a heap for sharing.
C.
nikon_sam
09-10-2007, 10:19
I was at the Pasadena camera show yesterday and there was a RB67 with lens sitting on the table...I picked it up to see for myself how heavy it was...
That thing should come with its own tripod...heavy would be one word to describe it...
It is a majic camera it doubles it weight after about 1 mile.
The tripod seems to do the same as well.
Noel
You know, after all of this it's-so-heavy talk I'll be very disappointed if I'm actually able to pick the thing up. :) My C330 is infamous for being heavy as hell, and while it's no doubt a SOLID piece of equipment it's not murder carrying around either...
Ok I do take my C330 and several lenses walking, this is a drag but not too annoying, the RB is a little heavier.
If you look at the weights in the manuals you will see how much by.
I can hold the C330 at 1/15 sometimes
Noel
I'm not a RB67 owner but I am a pentax 67 owner. I guess the cameras weigh the same and I would say this: If you want to use 6x7 you're obviously into quality negatives therefore wherever possible you should use a tripod, but of course you should have a back up plan for when you can't and gauging your personal minimum (or is it maximum) shutter speed is a must - it certainly does seem to vary from person to person. I regularly hike with a pentax 67, tripod, three lenses, extension tubes, film, filters, and a DSLR for metering/proofing tricky scenes (honestly it's all they're good for ;) ). This is challenging, but worth it for the quality I get in return, I'm sure you could do the same with an RB, if you're fit and well organised . Obviously it helps if you can thin down your kit in advance, but often you need flexibility and that's when the weight goes up. Bear in mind ultimately if you like a camera you won't be carrying just a camera you'll be carrying a system. Also bear in mind the more you like a camera the lighter it will feel :D .
nikon_sam
09-19-2007, 09:28
So.....what's the verdict...???
Well, I haven't souped the rolls yet, but I have to say that while the RB is a big beast, I really enjoy shooting with it. Using a short strap the ergonomics really work well, the three-step operation of getting ready for the next frame becomes natural really quick, and the weight doesn't really bother me at all. I shot a roll of my little girl at the park and focusing was snappy and easy (if you put your eye close to the popup magnifier you can still see the entire screen). The only minor hassle was that with the short strap it's not easy to swing to the side and carry comfortably.
Verdict I guess would be...
Big: Yes
Unwieldy: No
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