View Full Version : Help! Any Translators around?
I should dearly love to know what this inscription means.
David Noble
08-31-2007, 02:48
Well, I am a translator, but not from Russian, which is what this looks like to me. And it also looks to be dated March 25, '68—something tells me that might be 1868 and not 1968?
Mr_Flibble
08-31-2007, 03:29
Dobri Den Tavarish,
I can read a bit of Cyrillic, though I skipped the chapter on handwritten letters.
Even if I can read it, doesn't mean I understand it too. My Russian is rather
Rusty at the moment. ;)
I'll give it a go when I get home in a few hours if someone else hasn't figured it out by then.
Da Sveedania,
It is not russian. I guess it is chech or hungarian.
Why would it be those languages in Cyrilic script?
Where is Varjag?
It is not russian. I guess it is chech or hungarian.
Czech and Hungarian aren't written with the Cyrillic alphabet, so my guess is it's Russian after all. Maybe our Russian-speaking friends can help us?
it is russian and it says -
"****(i cant read first word) to Ivan Vasilevitch for Day of coal-miners, for his flawless work. Management of mine. 25.3.1968."
Bulgarian, Serbian and Ukranian, among others, are also written in cyrillic script, so that the fact that writing is cyrillic is not definitive. I assume that this inscription is on a camera?
I see that someone already translated before I got this posted.
Thanks for the interest guys. Could it be in Ukrainian, do they use cyrillic script. The date corresponds to the camera. 1968 A friend of mine who speaks a little russian couldn't be certain of the language but thought it had somthing to do with a coal mine!
Brian.
David Noble
08-31-2007, 04:27
As a historian in addition to being a translator, I am glad my guess on the date was only off by a century... Good enough for government work!
Nzeeman and all the others a great big thanks. I cannot tell you how pleased I am. So my old pal was right re the 'coalmine' This is the thing I love about collecting it somtimes can bring history to life, just imagine how proud young Ivan must have been. I wonder if Ivan is still alive? Sounds as though he might have been in line for the Order of Lenin, better than the Gulag. Do you think the first word could be 'presented' it would make sense.
So well done Ivan Vasilevitch, and well done Nzeeman and crew.
Mr_Flibble
08-31-2007, 04:29
The Ukraine was part of the USSR so yes, they use the Cyrillic alphabet.
Pherdinand
08-31-2007, 04:33
The Ukraine was part of the USSR so yes, they use the Cyrillic alphabet.
So was Estonia...Moldavia...and some more.
Czech and Hungarian have nothing in common (language point of view).
Not that Hungarian is written with latin alphabet too but it was never written in cyrillic, and it is a totally different language group.
Mr_Flibble
08-31-2007, 04:42
Quite right, but they speak Russian in the Ukraine, don't they?
No matter; Where-ever it originated from, it certainly does give the camera (if it is indeed a camera it is written on) an interesting history/character.
Mr_Flibble
08-31-2007, 04:45
Oops, I guess they speak Ukrainian, but they do write with the Cyrillic alphabet.
Thank you Wikipedia :)
Quite right, but they speak Russian in the Ukraine, don't they?
No matter; Where-ever it originated from, it certainly does give the camera (if it is indeed a camera it is written on) an interesting history/character.
The use of cyrillic script is strongly associated with the Orthodox Christian faith. Many countries that were never part of the USSR use cyrillic script.
As a small thank you here's the camera with the inscription. The camera has hardly been used, I suppose shovelling all that coal Ivan didn't have a lot of time for hobbies.
Pherdinand
08-31-2007, 05:01
Ahha! It's a Kiev! Excellent...:)
Both Russian and Ukrainian are used in Ukraine but it depends where you come from exactly (so I am told by my Ukrainian colleague).
Interesting re Russian and Ukranian cyrillic script. The first illustration is Kiev in Russian and the second a very naughty two fingers to the Russians from the freedom loving Ukrainians. Quite where the KNEB with the wrong way round 'N' comes, from heavens knows.
the last name (the first word) reads "Antipenko"
Whatever....is it rude.:) ?
bananasplit
08-31-2007, 07:00
Just asked a good Russian friend who gave me this :
Antipenko Ivan Vasilievich, Antipenko is the family name, Ivan the first name and Vasilievich the father name.
All the rest seems fine exept Administration and not Management (which looks same for me).
Nice collector intem.
Thank your Russian friend for me. Some people will never understand the thrill of collecting, but this sort of thing makes it worth while.
Brian.
Interesting re Russian and Ukranian cyrillic script. The first illustration is Kiev in Russian and the second a very naughty two fingers to the Russians from the freedom loving Ukrainians. Quite where the KNEB with the wrong way round 'N' comes, from heavens knows.
i didnt understood this last sentence - could you explain it a little.
btw i reeeeeally like ukrainian script on kiev.
The "wrong way N" or "u" is the Cyrillic "i", nothing strange there.
I'm more interested to know why there are two dots over the e, "ė", which is a completely different letter in Cyrillic. In Russian it's pronounced like the "ya" in yacht, not "e". It's always stressed so the pronounciation should then be something like "ki-joff", not "kii-jef" (as in the name of the Ukrainian capital).
Emilgil, you will note that the two dots are not above an 'e' but an 'i'. I have 5/6 of these cameras all are dated 1958. I have been told that the factory was having a fall out with the masters from the Kremlin and that Kei (two dots) vwas the Ukranian way of spelling the name of the city. Anyone out there know?
Brian.
The "wrong way N" or "u" is the Cyrillic "i", nothing strange there.
I'm more interested to know why there are two dots over the e, "ė", which is a completely different letter in Cyrillic. In Russian it's pronounced like the "ya" in yacht, not "e". It's always stressed so the pronounciation should then be something like "ki-joff", not "kii-jef" (as in the name of the Ukrainian capital).
russian "e" is pronounced ye
"ė" is yo
"ю" is yu
"я" is ya
Anyone reading this thread will start to think we are mad. But nzeman the dots are above an 'i' not an ''e'
Anyone reading this thread will start to think we are mad. But nzeman the dots are above an 'i' not an ''e'
oh yes - i wrote that to explain russian letters. i with dots is something ukrainian. i dont know their alphabet :( but i read on net that i with dots is "yi" (or for english speaking people "yee")
so they read it keeyeev
Well that seems straightforward.:bang:
Brian
The Ukraine was part of the USSR so yes, they use the Cyrillic alphabet.
Ukrainia/ The Ukraine used the Cyrillic alphabet long before the Soviet amalgamation!
KenD
So now wouldn't it be nice to find out why in 1958 Arsenal changed the script to Ukrainian Then in 1959 back to Russian.
Any ideas from the historians out there?
Brian.
Just looked at DVD's site. He has one for sale. he describes it as " Very rare Ukrainian Engraving" price $280 and it's very rough. I don't think they are all that rare I checked and I have 3, I did think without checking I had more but one does tend to lose track.
B
So now wouldn't it be nice to find out why in 1958 Arsenal changed the script to Ukrainian Then in 1959 back to Russian.
Any ideas from the historians out there?
Brian.
It would certainly tie in with wider trends in the Ukraine at the time. Following the death of Stalin in 1953 the Soviet authorities, who were by no means popular in much of the Ukraine, adopted a policy of conciliation and decentralisation. There was a very significant move away from appointing Russian cadres and towards assigning leadership roles to native Ukrainians, most notably in the removal of Leonid Melnikov and his replacement by Oleksy Kyrychenko as General Secretary of the Ukrainian Communist Party.
Throughout the mid-50s there was a renewed emphasis on a distinct Ukrainian identity within the USSR, most obviously manifest in language, but also to some extent in economic terms. However, in the late 1950s, following the Hungarian uprising, such tendencies were denounced as "localism" and discouraged. In '58-'59 there was particularly notable - and legally codified - action against the use of Ukrainian in the economic and educational fields, which aimed to replace local "dialects" with the Russian "language" in order to assert the fusion of the previously separate parts of the USSR.
That doubtless unpopular reform would seem to coincide with these interesting Kievs :)
Cheers, Ian
maybe they didnt change logo - maybe they only made some quantity for ukrainian market...
maybe they didnt change logo - maybe they only made some quantity for ukrainian market...
But that's the point :) From 1959 there was no Ukrainian market - only a Soviet, Russian speaking one :)
If the Kiev medium Format fans are to be believed, this was not the only gesture of defiance in Arsenal's history - the Kaleinar lens, introduced in the late 70s is said to have been derisively named after a particularly unhelpful Moscow bureaucrat :)
Cheers, Ian
The story I was told is that a few, now by that I haven't any idea what a few means, but perhaps a few hundred, were unofficially produced as a protest against the Soviet. This would tie in with the unrest as reported by Ian.
"Yet, the 1958 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958) school reform that allowed parents to choose the language of primary instruction for their children, unpopular among the circles of the national intelligentsia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligentsia) in parts of the USSR, meant that non-Russian languages would slowly give way to Russian in light of the pressures of survival and advancement."
Perhaps it's tied up with this. It would seem that after the death of Stalin 1953 (?) there was some liberisation which didn't go down to well with the workers . So perhaps as I mentioned earlier this protest was a two fingered salute. Also about this time there was a bit of an upheavel at Arsenal, several managers ended up being sent elsewhere, although I do think this had something to do with quotas not being met. Quality was also going down the pan, hence five years later the "No Name" ( Wikipedia)
It's a pity that Kiev history is so sketchy, mostly we have to rely on complete conjecture. I have just mentioned one, the No Name. Produced in 1963 to use up spare Zeiss 50mm lenses, hand built to provide quality, no name to fool people into thinking they were not those awful Russian things, fine. But most No Names turn up dated 1964 with Jupiter lenses because of a production over run. But I have to admit the quality is superb. Another story is that a guy in Sweden had "won" a load of Zeiss lenses and he persuaded Arsenal to make anonymous camera bodies . I don't know., but I prefer the last........maybe he paid for them with bags of stolen Reischbank gold that had been liberated by John Wayne....who knows?
Brian.
Thought somebody would like this for the winter. Very professional looking modification for using gloves.....don't know about the infinity lock. Soft release? Tom Abrahammson eat your heart out, this is man size.
So what's this got to do with this thread? It's another Ukrainian Kiev from 1958.
Brian
getting back to the ukrainian spelling with "i" and two dots. the ukrainians pronounce kiev a abit more like kee-ee-v. the russians: kee-yeah-v
zorroflores
09-03-2007, 19:38
Just intrude to say that this is a very entertaining thread: a person“s story collectible, a bunch of history, a lesson on language usage across Europe and even some orthographic lessons, wow this is a great forum!
getting back to the ukrainian spelling with "i" and two dots. the ukrainians pronounce kiev a abit more like kee-ee-v. the russians: kee-yeah-v
Also the accent is placed in different locations:
Ukrainian: kuh-YEEV (pronunciation (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/ba/Kyiv.ogg))
Russian: KEE-yuhv (pronunciation (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Ru-Kiev.ogg))
Philipp
karyllemia
09-04-2007, 00:37
Emilgil, you will note that the two dots are not above an 'e' but an 'i'. I have 5/6 of these cameras all are dated 1958. I have been told that the factory was having a fall out with the masters from the Kremlin and that Kei (two dots) vwas the Ukranian way of spelling the name of the city. Anyone out there know?
Brian.
hmm.. that seems to be hard..
NickolasB
09-09-2007, 03:14
Direct translate -
"For Antipenko Ivan Vasilievich in of day of the miner for faultless work. A trust management."
About Russian \ Ukrainen.
Word Kiev in English = КИЕВ on Russian = Кiев on Ukrainen.
Ukrainen "i" = Russian "И" or in some times Russian "Ы".
If someone has problems with translation of Russian inscriptions - ask. I will help without problems.
Thanks.
Nickolay.
:)
If someone has problems with translation of Russian inscriptions - ask. I will help without problems.
Thanks.
Nickolay.
:)
Hello Nickolay
Could you be so kind as helping me to understand what is stamped in this neck strap of my Junost rangefinder ? The caracters are not very legible, sorry.
Thanks in advance
Joao
Word Kiev in English = КИЕВ on Russian = Кiев on Ukrainen.
Not quite. Kiev is called Київ in Ukrainian; if you want to spell the Ukrainian pronounciation with the Russian letters, one would spell it Кыив, the accent in Ukrainian is on the second syllable, while in Russian it's on the first.
Russian "o" or "e" quite often corresponds to "i" in Ukrainian, as in Lvov/Lviv, Khar'kov/Khar'kiv etc. The village where my wife's family comes from is called Aleksandrovka in Russian and Oleksandrivka in Ukrainian. You can still see the connection in the declension; for example the city of Lvov in western Ukraine is called "Львів" in Ukrainian, with an "i", but for example the form in the sixth case e.g. "in Lvov" is "у Львові" in Ukrainian, where the "o" appears again. In Russian the same form would be "во Львове", and in the final letters of the Ukrainian and Russian forms you can again see the e-i connection between the two languages.
Philipp
NickolasB
09-09-2007, 11:55
Hello Nickolay
Could you be so kind as helping me to understand what is stamped in this neck strap of my Junost rangefinder ? The caracters are not very legible, sorry.
Thanks in advance
Joao
Hello.
On strap: "ш.с. ф-ка" is in abbreviated form a sewing ("швейная") and shoe ("сапожная") factory ("ф-ка") Karl Marx's name ("им. К.МАРКСА"). Words on the second line are not read almost - badly printed.
Good Luck!
NickolasB
09-09-2007, 12:13
Not quite. Kiev is called Київ in Ukrainian; if you want to spell the Ukrainian pronounciation with the Russian letters, one would spell it Кыив, the accent in Ukrainian is on the second syllable, while in Russian it's on the first.
Russian "o" or "e" quite often corresponds to "i" in Ukrainian, as in Lvov/Lviv, Khar'kov/Khar'kiv etc. The village where my wife's family comes from is called Aleksandrovka in Russian and Oleksandrivka in Ukrainian. You can still see the connection in the declension; for example the city of Lvov in western Ukraine is called "Львів" in Ukrainian, with an "i", but for example the form in the sixth case e.g. "in Lvov" is "у Львові" in Ukrainian, where the "o" appears again. In Russian the same form would be "во Львове", and in the final letters of the Ukrainian and Russian forms you can again see the e-i connection between the two languages.
Philipp
Hi Philipp
Philippe - if to speak about total distinction - that yes, languages different and many words and sound and are written absolutely on a miscellaneous. For example in English flowers, in Russian "цветы", in an Ukrainian language "квiткi. In English guy, in Russian"парень", in an Ukrainian language"парубок". I speak about how inhabitants of Ukraine now write. At me there a lot of familiar and I receive often enough from them e-mails. There just "и" or "ы" it is replaced on"i".
Thanks.
Nickolay.
:)
Hi Nikolai,
For example in English flowers, in Russian "цветы", in an Ukrainian language "квiткi"
"Квітки", pronounced quit-KUH or something, but yes, you're basically right. The languages have a lot in common. In Eastern Ukraine you have large areas where people speak a mixed dialect called Surzhyk which uses elements from both languages. I learned Russian in university, but everything I know about Ukrainian comes from the Surzhyk of my wife's village; when I speak with people from Western Ukraine I get a lot of weird looks because I am technically a foreigner, but I have the accent of a Russian who has been hanging round in the countryside in the East too much. I like it :)
In e-mails you have all sorts of extra confusion because of the different keyboards and keyboard layouts, and especially when people write quickly or when they mix Russian and Ukrainian things get completely mixed up - much like English speakers in e-mails are sloppy about "your" and "you're", or "would have" and "would of", or "photos" and "photo's".
Привет из Германии / Привіт з Німеччини -
Philipp
Hello.
On strap: "ш.с. ф-ка" is in abbreviated form a sewing ("швейная") and shoe ("сапожная") factory ("ф-ка") Karl Marx's name ("им. К.МАРКСА"). Words on the second line are not read almost - badly printed.
Good Luck!
Thanks a lot. I presume this was where the case & neck strap were made. Interesting, it is the only case I have with this kind of indication.
Best regards
Joao
Во второй строке возможно название города. Там просматривается г. и название города. Какой город я пока не придумал. Дальше возможно штамп ОТК. А еще второе слово похоже на что-то типа открыто или отккрывается. Но все это - только мои догадки.
Best regards, Yury Mikheev.
I think in second line is written ?. ????????? (town Bogorodsk), OTK. Next i can't understand.
The party was big on presentation cameras, awarded for outstanding performance in industry and the military. One reason was the cameras were a cheap way to make an award. Once had a chance to bid on a Zorki 2C inscribed to the commander of the Baltic Fleet for outstanding performance during some maneuvers. Wish I had bid higher.
Zorki 2Cs were one of the favorite award cameras. I think this is the first time I've seen an engraved Kiev.
USSRPhoto
09-20-2007, 08:50
Translating YM:
"On the second line there may be a name of a city. You can kind of see "g" (Which is "Gorod" - City) and the name of the city. What city I haven't thought of yet. Afterwards there may be a stamp "OTK". Also a second word looks like either "otrkryto"(open) or "otrkryvayetso"(opening). But all of this is just my best guess."
Greetings with the Miner's day to Antipenko Ivan Vasilievich for the perfect work. The management of the company. 28 Aug. 1960
Dr Death
12-28-2007, 15:57
BTW this is Ukrainian alnguage. I understand it quite well and Vlad you are right in your translation.
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