View Full Version : problem with helios 103
mravigna
08-29-2007, 18:15
I just got this lens today that was purchased from Zenitar on ebay for 20 dollars including shipping to Canada. The problem is that it will not fit on either my Kiev II, III or IV. The bayonet seems to be improperly manufactured and the 3 protruding grooves are much too thick and would have to be filed down. Has anyone else had the same problem with this lens?:confused:
Sorry, no. Does the lens look brand-new and never used, or does it look used?
mravigna
08-30-2007, 06:34
This lens is new but the bayonet claws seem to be too thick to engage with the internal bayonet flange.
shadowfox
08-30-2007, 08:59
I assume you already made sure it's in Contax/Kiev mount. My Kiev 4AM comes with a Helios 103, from somewhere in South Siberia. Ask Brian Sweeney, he's the lens mount expert around here.
mravigna
08-30-2007, 09:26
It's identical to the other ones I have except that the bayonet claws are just a bit thicker which seems to prevent the lens from turning and locking into place. I am assuming that this is a manufacturing flaw which a kiev 4am is able to handle but the earlier versions like the kiev 2, 3 and even 4 cannot handle.
mravigna
In compatibility problems have been reported.
Please remove back from camera and advise exactly when, where, and how the foul occurs. Do the bayonet claws foul on penetration depth, or thickness. You need to be really sure before you attempt a remedy.
Does the lens enter fully? Do you have a J8 to compare dimensions with a vernier calliper?
'Blue tack' the lens in place and take a photo, if it is good I would recommend...
An email to seller might be first option he may send another lens, for free, and you would then have two to file rather than one.
Noel
mravigna
08-30-2007, 11:25
The lens seems to enter fully into the body but is impossible to turn and lock. I have compared the bayonet <claws> on this lens with my other Jupiter 8 lenses and the <claws> are definetely thicker and probably need to be filed so that they will no longer interfere with the rotation of the lens (claws behind the internal mount). Thanks
marvigna
If you look through the gate of the camera with the shutter open on B the thickness of the 'claws' should not be critical? The initial turn should have some clearance, this should be taken up by the 'springs' as the lens turns to the lock position.
If the lens bottoms normally it is not the 'claws' are too thick it is they are too close to the lens register lug.
If you want to file and have a fine file, a scrap feeler gauge or similar and steady hand, you could try an entry scallop (say 10 degree slope 1/16 of an inch deep) on the start of the leading edge... Or you could try removing metal from the lug. An entry scallop wont compromise the mount.
Or post lens to Brian Sweeny...
Noel
mravigna
08-30-2007, 14:58
The lens bottoms out just as well as my other jupiter 8 lenses so I will try and file away some of the extra thickness and imitate what my other lenses look like.
xayraa33
08-30-2007, 15:15
the H-103 from 1980/81 fit on my 1972 Kiev 4 ok.
the H -103 from 1984 does not.
filing the claws will make it fit.
darkkavenger
08-30-2007, 15:25
A friend from RFF has offered me a Menopta lens, it fitted VERY tight into my Contax IIIa, and I've had problems with late Helios-103 lenses to mount on early Kiev bodies. Additionally, I can report other problems such as lenses NOT fitting, ex: a J8M not fitting on my Contax III because the square tab was too big.
There are no general rules alas.
mravigna
08-30-2007, 15:32
Thanks Xayraa33, you have answered my question. My lens was produced in 1984 and you seem to have had the same problem. I will be filing those tabs down to a similar size as my other lenses. The seller Zenitar has offered to credit my account 50% of the amount because of this problem.
xayraa33
08-30-2007, 15:32
A friend from RFF has offered me a Menopta lens, it fitted VERY tight into my Contax IIIa, and I've had problems with late Helios-103 lenses to mount on early Kiev bodies. Additionally, I can report other problems such as lenses NOT fitting, ex: a J8M not fitting on my Contax III because the square tab was too big.
There are no general rules alas.
It seems that way Max, but the Helios is such a fine lens that it is worth the trouble.
PS. please keep me in mind if you ever want to sell that J-3 for the Kiev Max.
darkkavenger
08-30-2007, 15:35
It seems that way Max, but the Helios is such a fine lens that it is worth the trouble.
PS. please keep me in mind if you ever want to sell that J-3 for the Kiev Max.
Will do if ever, though it'll probably be the very last lens I'll sell :D
xayraa33
08-30-2007, 15:45
Will do if ever, though it'll probably be the very last lens I'll sell :D
thanks, It should be the last lens you sell and I understand why . :)
xayraa33
08-30-2007, 15:53
Thanks Xayraa33, you have answered my question. My lens was produced in 1984 and you seem to have had the same problem. I will be filing those tabs down to a similar size as my other lenses. The seller Zenitar has offered to credit my account 50% of the amount because of this problem.
It will workout fine, the credit the seller is giving you will make for a good deal on this fine lens.
Todd Frederick
08-30-2007, 16:19
I just received a Helios 103 yesterday and have the same problem on my Kiev 4a, however, I just got a good grip on it and forced it to lock. The fit is tight. I need to now check on the focus accuracy. I may never remove the lens from the body so, if it works Ok, no problem.
Todd Frederick
08-30-2007, 16:23
PS...it's hard to believe that a lens with such quality and solid construction cost me $21 including 10 day shipping from Moscow!
we're really not losing much money if we play with these a bit and break it! (*U*)
physiognomy
08-30-2007, 19:04
I'm glad the seller resolved your problem mravigna. I have been fairly lucky with compatibility... Initially I had trouble mounting a J-12, but that was mostly user error. My '83 Helios mounts fine on all of my Contax/Kiev cameras dating from '38 through '63.
Todd Frederick
08-31-2007, 15:42
I would like to follow-up on my comments above.
I received a Helios 103 Wednesday past, and it would not connect to my 4a easily. It was tight. I used more hand torque and it went to the click stop with no damage. I am guessing that if I do that a few times it will become easier to mount but I plan to keep it on the camera. I'm concerned about filing down anything so as not to make the lens too loose. I've done that!
I was concerned about possible focus issues because of the tightness, so took some photos today. No problem. Perfect image focus. My lens seems to be uncoated but that did not cause any problems with flare even directly into the sun.
Here are some samples from the Helios 103 as of today.
Todd Frederick
08-31-2007, 15:48
Here's one more.
All of the photos were taken quickly with backlight about 8:00AM this morning.
darkkavenger
08-31-2007, 16:28
Hello Todd, I'm fairly sure your lens is coated. Try approaching it to a light source, near a window for example and you might notice a very faint light-purple reflection. :)
Todd Frederick
08-31-2007, 17:48
Max, I do see the light...uh, purple, that is. (^U^)
It IS a truly fine lens!
The seller from whom I bought it sells them in bulk with a huge discount.
What's the story on this? How can such truly fine lenses be sold for so little?
These are far, far more superior than many lenses costing 5 times+ as much.
xayraa33
08-31-2007, 18:08
Max, I do see the light...uh, purple, that is. (^U^)
It IS a truly fine lens!
The seller from whom I bought it sells them in bulk with a huge discount.
What's the story on this? How can such truly fine lenses be sold for so little?
These are far, far more superior than many lenses costing 5 times+ as much.
I do think that if the Helios 103 was made in LTM it would sell for more money as there would be more demand for it.
The Helios 103 was made for the 4m or the 4AM. The lens mounts on these cameras are slightly different than the Contax mount. Stu
Todd Frederick
08-31-2007, 18:57
Stu, yup, but I got mine to work. It can be done.
Todd Frederick
08-31-2007, 19:03
If we don't shut up about how good these are the prices will go way up!
It seems that so many of these lenses are totally new-"old stock" going back to 1984, and never been used!
These camera companies could make a fortune and revive their businesses if they just promoted the quality of these cameras and lenses.
First the remaindered stock is sold then the prices go up.
The guys probably got a loan from brother in laws to buy them and need to pay it back.
Noel
It was such a good deal I bought one on spec. Haven't even found a decent Kiev body yet for it, but one is on my horizon.
Gene
Murray Kelly
09-02-2007, 04:30
I agree with xray. I have even thought of sacrificing a J-8 if I could get the Helios lens assembly into the body. I am stuck at getting the J-8 apart! :-(
My two Helios-103s (both 1980s, of course) were not interchangeable between the 4 and 4A. One lens fitted both and one only fitted the camera it came with. When I looked, the lens was fouling the inside of the camera it wouldn't fit - that is, it wasn't a problem with the mount.
Really close inspection revealed that someone had glooped matte black paint in the camera body, on a part that wasn't actually visible to the film when a lens was fitted. I scraped some off, looking thru the gate on 'B' with the shutter open to find the exact spot and the recalcitrant 103 slipped in just fine.
Now I can use either lens in either body. This is good because one has an annoying flare - it needs some balsam on the front group, but I just put in some black paint. Temporary I know, but effective.
Happy ending. :-)
Murray
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