View Full Version : Argh!!!!!!
:bang: :bang: :bang:
Oh man, this is THE most stupid thing I have ever done (in relation to a darkroom).
I FINALLY get my darkroom sorted. With the help of my father I buy the MDF boards for the shed windows, mulch ground cover as blackout material for the door, an LPL 6700 for multigrade paper b&w etc etc etc...
So I spend £25 on a brand new box of Ilford MGIV 10x8 paper.
The darkroom is sorted, it gets to twilight so I know the minor light leaks in the shed will be dulled or gone completely, and I get a dozen prints, a few are rubbish, but a few give me a little confidence I'm still capable of producing a silver print.
Taking a short break, stretch, flick through another batch of negs for printable shots. It's about 11:30 pm, I've been in my darkroom for maybe 2 hours.
I turn on the light to check a print that's in the fix....
Yep, that's right, I left the ilford paper box open with the bag open too :mad: :eek:
So now ALL the remaining pieces are ruined. I'd used less than 20 sheets :(
I think about 5-10 sheets from the top will be fogged at least halfway, and ALL the sheets have about 1/2 inch black fogging.
I now have to spend MORE money and look like a right idiot when I go into town tomorrow to buy another box :(
Worse still.... I'm meant to be printing a helluva lot of pictures to get a portfolio together for Wednesday (for a foundation degree interview).
Even if I wasn't bothered about the wasted paper and money, it's now a wasted night and more time wasted to get the paper from town and start all over and be extra-cautious.
I really hate myself sometimes :bang:
Looks like I have about 80 sheets to cut down for test strips. GRRRRR
sienarot
08-24-2007, 19:45
Why not try to figure out where most of the black fogging shows up and use the rest of the paper for smaller prints, like 5x7? Myself, I keep a secondary, smaller portfolio for travel or street shooting.
Or load some of it for pin hole photography and make paper negatives out of them.
What I usually do when I get a fresh box is divide it in half and put some into another box to store elsewhere partly for this reason (and partly so I don't get carried away with sloppy printing when I think I have a lot of paper to waste).
rogue_designer
08-24-2007, 20:08
you might get lucky - sometimes they don't fog as much as you think they will - depending on the angle of the light, etc.
I like sienarot's idea of printing smaller, depending on how much fog you have.
At the very least, you can use this paper for testing and such, save some time when you get more paper if you take good notes on your settings and actions (burning, etc).
If it makes you feel any better, Ash, everybody who has spent any time in the darkroom has made this mistake or even worse. Just be glad that all you did was mess up some unexposed paper rather than ruining some exposed film of images that you really cared about. And sienarot's idea of separating a fresh box of paper is a good one.
-Randy
This reminds me of many years ago working in a film processing lab, a guy there once dropped a film cannister in the dip and dunk room and without thinking turned the light on to find it, in the process ruining all the films already loaded ready to be processed. In this light yours was a minor mistake that we all make, just accept it as the learning curve that it is, and enjoy your printing.
I find that every time I crank up the darkroom again, I make some of those obvious mistakes. They just go away after you've gotten into the groove. BTW, I ONLY print 5x7. I love that size and 11x14. because they seem to fit the 24x36 frame better. Keep at it, Ash
You could always have a special on avatars Ash!
:p
It should only happen to you once. :)
Todd Frederick
08-24-2007, 20:59
Been there more than once. Don't fret. There will be some sheets that are still usable at a smaller dimension, often on 1/4 inch or so. Just go on.
I also think 5x7 is a great dimension for images. 5x7 on 8x10 or 11x14 mounts are wonderful. I even like to trim the mounts to more interesting dimensions...Very long and narrow mounts with 3 or more small prints cascading down.
Keith, I also had a couple of Contax cameras but I so much prefer my Kiev 4a's. I really don't know why since they are basically the same.
I know exactly what it feels like. But everyone who prints in a darkroom is fated to do that at least once Ash, so at least you can put it behind you now.
I haven't done any printing for a few years now, but I always used to keep two boxes and transfer half a dozen sheets at a time from my full box of paper to the "work" box, and then immediately reseal the full box. But then, I guess smartarses trying to tell you what you should have done aren't really much help now, so I'll just leave you with my sincere sympathies.
And best of luck for Wednesday.
You shouldn't write off the paper until you know how much of it is affected.
markinlondon
08-25-2007, 01:46
You too, eh? Having done this at least once I usually transfer about twenty sheets at a time into another bag as my "working" stock and put the rest away until it runs out. Sometimes it's only the edge that fogs and the sheets can be used for smaller prints as has been suggested. I like full frame 9x6 on 10x8 paper.
Pherdinand
08-25-2007, 02:28
the non-uniform black edges might give a funky frame to some images, i would try it.
Thanks everyone.
I'm still kicking myself over it, but I feel a little less angry this morning.
Back into town in a couple hours, more paper, more dev.
Immediately after realising, I placed a sheet from the top and from the bottom of the stash. The bottom should be fine for cutting down. The top is buggered, obviously.
*sigh*
Ash
Good luck with your interview.
Noel
RObert Budding
08-25-2007, 04:01
Work flow. Close the bag and replace the lid each time. Or buy a paper safe that only stays open if you hold the door up.
Unscrew the light bulb! Or better, replace it with a safe light.
RML that's exactly what I did this morning :D
----
I walk into the camera shop. The two old-ish (Clerk1 = 50's? Clerk2 = 40's?) guys are working, Clerk2 is the one who served me yesterday. I'd chatted to him for the while I was in the shop, explaining my need for the stuff.
Anyway, I'm waiting for the other people to be served. A guy is talking about his perfect camera being "putting the Canon 5d bits INSIDE the 1d" as the 1d mkII is so much nicer to handle (I agree) but the 5d has better image rendition or something I don't know, I got bored of listening :D
I get served after a minute or two..
Me: A box of 100 sheets 10x8 please
Clerk1: Gloss or Lustre?
Me: Top one, Gloss
Clerk2: Run out already?
Me: Uhhh not exactly, ruined the boxload by turning on the light, didn't I?
pause
Clerk 2 (pointing): HAH! Student!
I had to laugh, it was a classic moment.
Bloody heavy to carry around all day, over to Calne (an hour's bus ride) and back to see girlfriend, then skateboard back from town centre home (no more money left for bus home from town!).
drewbarb
08-25-2007, 12:25
Ash- that's really a bummer- sorry to hear it. I think ruining paper is a rite of passage every printer has to go through. If it helps any, I'll second the suggestion that you try to use some of it- the majority of the sheets in the middle should be fine, even if they will have fogged edges. If you make smaller prints in the middle of the sheets you should be fine.
Take a look round for a paper safe. You should be able to find one cheap. I have a few clamshell-type paper safes of various sizes, and find them very handy. I load 20 or 30 sheets at a time into one, and keep the rest of the paper in the bag and box they came in in my darkroom fridge. This way even if I'm a dolt and turn on the light I can't ruin my whole stock. At the very least, keep the old paper box and split your stock into what you think you'll use in a given darkroom session in one box, and the balance in another, carefully closed up.
After having spoiled my share of paper a few times, I have made it a habit to always check that my paper box and/or safe is closed before I turn on the light.
Finally, I'll make you an offer. I was given a set of 8x10 paper safes a few years ago, so I have more than I need in this size. I'd be happy to send you one for the cost of shippping. PM me if you are intereseted.
Better luck with your darkroom work, and good luck with the interview next week!
(Edit for spelling!)
Man you have not even begun to plumb the dpeths of stupid. I have done so many stupid things - often resulting in damage to my beloved camera gear that I sometimes wonder if I should sell it all and become a Benedictine monk. Maybe I am being harsh on myself but on average perhaps once a year or year and a half I will bump, lose, drop, get wet, scratch or some how manage to do something that makes me cringe when a modicum of forethought would have avoided it. Not a high rate maybe but when you have been into photography for 15 years thats a lot of damage. Just grin, suck it up and realise that you are HUMAN. cheers/
Ilford used to make a"press" type paper called Plastika (or something like that). It was designed to be dried on a roller heater (large monstrous machine with a "usually" really dirty apron and a red hot polished steel cylinder). It was a very thin paper, single weight, and with a VERY smooth surface! It also came in 8x10 size and 500 sheet to the box.
I was working late and had to open another box, to save time in trying to get a small stack (20-25 sheet) I pulled the whole bag (black paper) out of the box, grabbing what I thought was the open end of it and lifting it up!
The entire bag opened up and 500 sheets of paper, like so many playing cards. took off and fluttered all over the darkroom floor. The dark room lights were good but the filters were getting faded and I knew that I had about 2-3 minutes to grab the papers and try to stuff them into the bag before fog set in. Needless to say, I had at least 100-150 nice white pieces of paper to write notes on and use for checking focus with!
Oh, if you decided to air dry "plastika" it would curl up to a cigarette diameter roll, 10" long and with a remarkable faculty for wanting to stay that way. Even several minutes in the dry mount press would result in a "sprooing" sound when you lifted up the top plate and the print was now a cigar diametered 10" roll.
You could sell the paper on eBay as nearly mint.
sienarot
08-25-2007, 17:13
You could sell the paper on eBay as nearly mint.
Another good idea! don't forget to take a picture of the paper so people know what they're getting :)
Drew, thankyou :) pm'd.
Tom, your story really made me smile. Thankyou for sharing :)
Peter/Derrick, so those couple auctions were famous - I thought I was the only one who spotted them!!
It took way too long to get into the darkroom tonight; by the time my sister left so I could lock up the house, and after sorting out the dog, it must have been nearly 11pm - working on maybe 10 sheets (3 or 4 prints, at least 2 of each), I didn't get back inside til 1:30am.
It's nearly 2am, but I sucked in all the advice like a sponge :)
A wad of paper was placed in a thinner box I had, to use/ruin. The main box was kept closed tight. No major problems tonight thankfully.
rtphotos
08-25-2007, 22:06
drewbarb gives good advice regarding "paper safes". I use them always. It beats fumbling with the paper box and plastic bag during printing sessions.
This is the type I use:
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=1526
Get one! Good luck on your printing!
rt :)
sepiareverb
08-26-2007, 10:56
Another nod to the paper safe- best investment you can make at this point. I still manage to turn on the lights with the paper safe open once a year, but I only fog a few sheets. I keep maybe 25 sheets in there at a time, reload as needed while printing. Does save time as well, nice and simple to get your sheet out. The next time you fog paper you've paid for the paper safe.
I must admit that I have also turned the wrong light-switch at the wrong moment. Probably everyone has done it at least once !
I've never used a paper-safe though - do they self-close or something like that ? I just have the routine that only the single packet of paper in use goes on top of the bench, and every time I leave the bench I check it. So far so good, for a few years (famous last words).
Good luck with you interview btw.
drewbarb
08-26-2007, 12:13
Check the link RT posted above- this is my vote for the best (simplest, most fool-proof, and cheapest) design for a paper safe. I have a couple in each size from 8x10 to 20x24. I got all of mine very cheap or free, and I use them all the time.
sepiareverb
08-26-2007, 12:28
I like the older Premier brand versions that have a small plastic latch to prevent accidental openings when moving the safe. The newest Premiers seem to have replaced the latch with a cheaper velcro 'latch' which only serves to make noise when opening the thing, alerting you to the fact that you have either fogged the paper or are simply getting another sheet for that next print.
drewbarb
08-26-2007, 14:03
Hmm. The ones I have all have a small metal latch on the front which turns to the side to latch them closed.
markinlondon
08-26-2007, 14:19
Papersafes sell for about £5 from www.secondhanddarkroom.co.uk. Their postage is a bit of a killer on small orders though.
Over the years I have designed and built 1/2 dozen darkrooms in various locations. My current one has one strange feature. YOU CAN NOT turn on the lights when you enter! You have to make it the 10ft to the sink and then you have to find the switch. This has cut down on stupid mistakes considerably!
Nothing being perfect, it also introduces new mistakes - trying to carry 2.5 liters of hot water in a Paterson jug to the sink and forgetting that the last time you were in there, you did not push the stool at the enlarging table all the way in!
sepiareverb
08-26-2007, 16:46
Over the years I have designed and built 1/2 dozen darkrooms in various locations. My current one has one strange feature. YOU CAN NOT turn on the lights when you enter! You have to make it the 10ft to the sink and then you have to find the switch....
I did something similar in this darkroom with my lights- force myself to walk far to get to the main white lights, but then I added one over the sink to check on prints in the fix after I dripped too much all over the floor. That light is my usual culprit in paper fogs. I am getting better at remembering to close the safe as I remove the paper- some old dogs can learn new tricks.
Might you post us a picture of your darkroom Tom?
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40458&highlight=darkroom
I will attempt to take a shot of the darkroom and try to post it. Probably will use Tuulikki's GRD with the 21 adapter for that. Might get around to it tomorrow as i just finished a bunch of articles for the LHSA Viewfinder that has to be shipped out and my eyeball's are seared from staring at a screen for multiple hours.
john neal
08-27-2007, 00:10
My wife once bought me a box of Ilford MG4 for my birthday - before gift wrapping it, she she thought she should look inside and make sure it was OK......
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1323/1252721298_321230c246.jpg?v=0
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1307/1252724766_c04ceaa6e5.jpg?v=0
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1384/1252728610_ed7ab394a8.jpg?v=0
sepiareverb
08-27-2007, 15:34
Hey thanks Tom- I love the yellow walls! Making me think of a paint job now. I've got a blue lineoleum floor & blue ceiling- that yellow would put me over the top!
Would have guessed you to be a metal reels fellow; that's a lot of reels. I just spent three days running films from my trip a few weeks back and was thanking my metal reels for being loadable while wet, as I only have 12.
Beautiful workspace too- my office/workroom is a jumble of desk, shelves, safe and worktables. More like some aisles in a very crowded junk store!
Ash- remembered a cracked lid to one of my developing cans as being the culprit to a lot of fogged film years back- strange irregular fogs that it took forever to pin down- also explained the developer, stop & fix 'mysteriously' pouring all over my hands while agitating. A pretty sizable crack in the plastic lid that was nearly invisible. I noticed it finally when pushing down a stubborn cap with my thumb. Another one of those Argh!!!!! moments.
markinlondon
08-27-2007, 15:37
Wow, wide open spaces, Tom! :)
As I haven't figured how to caption the shots on site:
There are two enlargers in my darkroom, the Gray Focomat 1 C which is my workhorse and the black monster, which is a ELCAN 121 ultra high resolution (275 lpm). It is based on a Focomat IIc but in this configuration barely covers 24x36. At the moment it is "down" with a case of electronic flu. The control between the lamp and the shutter is dead and as it is one of maybe 1/2 dozen made in 1974, parts and schematics are unavailable. One of these days i will design and build a LED light source for it instead.
The red box above the sink is a continous water heater, running on 220/3phase power. You just turn it on and it will keep the water temperature at whatever setting you want for as long as the water is flowing.
The reel rack is not steel reels! It is Paterson System reels and the rack holds 80 of them, but there are another 20+ in the "ante-room".
The wide angle on the Ricoh GRD makes it deceptively large. The darkroom is about 9ft by 12ft and the office outside is about 8ft by 18ft. There is also a small "nook" of to the side that holds print boxes and kodak carousel trays (40+).
The bookshelf in the back holds neg files and books (photographic books), but it is mainly for neg files and the books are "overflow" from the den and downstairs.
It is not a perfect darkroom, but it is very comfortable to work in, the stainless sink is 8 ft long and 30" wide and the second sink is 3 ft by 30" and 18" deep. The second sink is mainly used for washing prints. There is a variable speed exhaust fan in the ceiling above the reel rack and at full blast it is loud, but it will change the air in the room in three minutes, The door has a filtered air inlet that is 24" square and i do run a aircleaner 24 hours in the darkroom. This cuts down on spotting prints.
Ok, now I have shown mine - let's see yours!
I forgot! The reason the walls are yellow is that this is a color that Multi Grade paper is not very sensitive to. If there are reflections or stray lights from the enlarger, it doesn't fog it as quick. I built this darkroom 18 years ago and Kodak gave me the paint number (Pantone) for the least risky light. All the walls are 3/4" marine plywood. This means that you never have to chase a stud to attach something. All the power outlets are 5-6 ft up above the floor and are on sep. circuits too and there are 7 4-plug outlets in all there.
Watch for reflections from the blue ceiling! Multi-grade aper is highly sensitive to blue light and will fog easily.
I think this might have got deleted
sorry if duplicate/any confusion
Pls let me know. Thanks!
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1134/1252717246_06ee4c6db9.jpg?v=0
Tom those photo's are very impressive. My darkroom is about the size of the desk. I'm certain your shoe closet is larger!! :eek:
I'm nearly out of paper now - I've used up over half the second box of 100 sheets, I got my portfolio done for the interview yesterday. Everything went fine :)
I can guarantee you that my shoe closet is smaller than your darkroom. I hate buying shoes so I tend to have, at the most, 2 pairs and wear them until they fall apart. Then I buy another two etc. My fashion sense is non existent! I figured out that if I buy two or three of the same (shirts,jeans etc) I am not fazed with a difficult choice in the morning! Jackets and "photo" vests is a different subject and I wont go there,
sepiareverb
08-30-2007, 13:04
My method is to buy two packages of white T-shirts every year, by the end of the year they have turned to rags and I start over. Almost all the shirts I need for $10.
Tom your place looks great, I wish I had more room, and was tidy!
Thanks for sharing, I think it's interesting to see other peoples workplaces, and it inspired me to take a few pics of my darkroom and workplace and share. As you can see I go along with the Brett Weston philosohpy on darkrooms in that I feel better in a simple basic space.
This is how my as yet incomplete (meaning: not yet light tight) dark room looks like. :)
http://bp0.blogger.com/_eHbXgXMLuyo/RrXpL7TezLI/AAAAAAAABKI/gRHtZabWQOw/s1600-h/Crw_8365b-sm-cr.jpg
Pherdinand
08-31-2007, 12:58
if you wanna see my darkroom..just take a look into your bathroom, add a few spiders and that's it!
rtphotos
08-31-2007, 16:44
The photos of everyone's darkroom are very helpful for guys like me planning on designing a new one from scratch! THANKS for sharing the darkroom ideas! Anyone have pics of their built-in "paper safe"?
I suggest you all put your darkroom pics on a new post with a "sticky", or something.
thanks,
rt :)
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