View Full Version : The McPhoto Syndrome.
Every now and then one of my well meaning friends offers me advice on my photographic efforts ... invariably a non photographer whose idea of a 'nice' photo is the lovely over saturated landscape that graces the calendar they got for Xmas from their local drug store. I have one of these calendars myself on my fridge and it contains some of the blandest photos I have ever seen and the thought that someone probably earned reasonably good money for those shots appals me.
Their comments are usually along the lines of ... "Gee that's a dark photo, did you forget your flash?" Or ... "It's a pity the background isn't in better focus because that would really make that picture that little bit better!" Or ... "That would look so nice in colour!" ... etc etc!
Am I just becoming an elitest wanker through hanging out with you guys too long ... or are these well meaning knuckleheads testing your patience as well as mine on a fairly regular basis? :D :D :D
ClaremontPhoto
08-22-2007, 07:22
I feel just the same.
One of mine was published. Athletes with tons of motion blur.
A guy said to me 'You should have used a faster shutter speed to get it clear.' Then he looked at my camera and told me to get a digital camera because they're better!
No they are correct, you need to go out and take some macro photos of flowers, preferably with insects on them. ;-)
Am I just becoming an elitest wanker through hanging out with you guys too long ... or are these well meaning knuckleheads testing your patience as well as mine on a fairly regular basis? :D :D :D
There's nothing wrong in belonging to the elite. The majority here are Mac users and apparently 95% of the American RFFers who responded know which way round France and Germany are. That's pretty good!
BTW. Did you see the Chaser's video about "Who should we bomb next?" I think someone stuck a flag in Australia, thinking it was France.
IMHO you need to get a bit more elitist and hang out with people like us in Real Life (TM).
But finally, remember that just because a photo is blurred, under-exposed and has nothing of interest in it - doesn't necessarily make it a good photo.
colin
(From Harmless to Elite in one 24 hr continuous playing session, on a BBC Model B )
Windwalker57
08-22-2007, 07:37
A knowledgeable person once looked at the enlargements on my wall and pointed out those that they felt 'exhibited strong digital characteristics' and 'obviously digital is not capable of quality imaging'. He was pointing to all the film images. He went on to say that ' you should only shoot film, see how much better the color and sharpness is'. Those were the digital images printed on an inkjet printer. Now, I keep the digital and film images in different rooms.
photogdave
08-22-2007, 08:15
Photos mean different things to different people.
When my friends flip through the albums of all my travels the usually go right past all the cool dramatic landscapes and moody candid street portraits, only to jab their dirty fingertips all over a typical beach-and-palm tree shot. "That looks nice."
I made an iPhoto book of photos from my first year together with my girlfriend and all our camping trips etc, and she only likes the shots where her hair looks good or her outfit is cute.
The photographers who produce these calenders probably have some amazing personal work but know how to market to the masses and make some $$$! Good on 'em!
All interesting comments. It would probably not hurt us to concentrate on crowd-pleaser type photos one in a while. "Decorative style" photography sells.
shadowfox
08-22-2007, 08:46
IMHO, the elites are the ones who:
- spend almost 16 hours a day on the street shooting,
- or lug a 8x10 on camelback treks across the Gobi and the Silk Road... without sponsors,
- or perform darkroom magic that makes the best photoshoper in Hollywood look like a joke,
- or spends 6 months in Ukraine in the sewers with the street-kids, journaling their lives,
- or sold his mansion, and dedicate his life to make the poor community better via photography,
- or make a comfortable living with a happy wife and three happy kids ... solely on Stock Photography income.
I don't think I'll ever be able come close to the elites, not even by a hundred feet pole :D
BJ Bignell
08-22-2007, 09:05
Every now and then one of my well meaning friends offers me advice on my photographic efforts ... Their comments are usually along the lines of ... "Gee that's a dark photo, did you forget your flash?"It doesn't take much effort to say, "The effect/darkness/blur of this photo was intentional." People don't have to like it, but they may appreciate it more if they realise it's what you meant to do. Also, if they're your friends, perhaps they are interested in your photography and are searching for a way to discuss it with you. Open up and explain a bit. You might be surprised! And if it turns out that they don't care, at least they'll know, and should be less "annoying" for you.
It doesn't take much effort to say, "The effect/darkness/blur of this photo was intentional." People don't have to like it, but they may appreciate it more if they realise it's what you meant to do. Also, if they're your friends, perhaps they are interested in your photography and are searching for a way to discuss it with you. Open up and explain a bit. You might be surprised! And if it turns out that they don't care, at least they'll know, and should be less "annoying" for you.
You're dead right on that point and friends are always willing to listen to you if they are your friends.
One of the common comments I get is about film grain ... a lot of them don't see the point and think it detracts from the image and I find this issue hard to explain to them if they genuinely aren't attracted to it. To a lot of people a clean digital image is what they prefer to see and I guess that's their choice! :)
No they are correct, you need to go out and take some macro photos of flowers, preferably with insects on them. ;-)
I hate pictures of flowers. I hate them even more if there's a bug on them. I hate it when people on other forums ask for comments on them.
Squirrels are OK however.:D
http://www.pbase.com/bard385/image/83063769.jpg
markinlondon
08-22-2007, 10:04
For some reason Oscar Hammerstein's My Favourite Things from The Sound of Music is running through my head at the moment but in a sort of negative form. I bought this week's Amateur Photographer today. Its content could almost be summed up by the title of this thread :( .
I hate pictures of flowers. I hate them even more if there's a bug on them. I hate it when people on other forums ask for comments on them.
Squirrels are OK however.:D
http://www.pbase.com/bard385/image/83063769.jpg
That squirrel looks like it was dead for weeks before you snapped it :)
Photos mean different things to different people.
When my friends flip through the albums of all my travels the usually go right past all the cool dramatic landscapes and moody candid street portraits, only to jab their dirty fingertips all over a typical beach-and-palm tree shot. "That looks nice."
I made an iPhoto book of photos from my first year together with my girlfriend and all our camping trips etc, and she only likes the shots where her hair looks good or her outfit is cute.
The photographers who produce these calenders probably have some amazing personal work but know how to market to the masses and make some $$$! Good on 'em!
Agreed.
Elitism is just as unworthy as fluffy bunny syndrome.
That squirrel looks like it was dead for weeks before you snapped it :)
Maybe that's why it didn't move. Actually it's the first black squirrel I ever saw.
Photos had to be technically "perfect", wildly oversaturated and taken on a bright and sunny day. Clouds were only tolerated if small, white and fluffy
Regards,
Bill[/QUOTE]
Now thats really elitist. You could only work about ten days out of a year:D
Kurt M..
BJ Bignell
08-22-2007, 10:56
You're dead right on that point and friends are always willing to listen to you if they are your friends.
One of the common comments I get is about film grain ... a lot of them don't see the point and think it detracts from the image and I find this issue hard to explain to them if they genuinely aren't attracted to it. To a lot of people a clean digital image is what they prefer to see and I guess that's their choice! :)Now you're getting the hang of it. Remember: It's fine to be a snob or elitist if you keep it to yourself. Unless, of course, you know other elitist snobs with whom you can commiserate! :D
amateriat
08-22-2007, 11:28
(Mangling a line from Trainspotting)
We're all elitist wankers on a good day. What's the problem? :p
- Barrett
Maybe that's why it didn't move. Actually it's the first black squirrel I ever saw.
I think it's a were-squirrel. Are you sure it didn't bite you?
colin
andrealed
08-22-2007, 12:46
I think it's a were-squirrel. Are you sure it didn't bite you?
colin
The unsaturated colors are from the moon lighting...:-)
shadowfox
08-22-2007, 12:59
For some reason Oscar Hammerstein's My Favourite Things from The Sound of Music is running through my head at the moment but in a sort of negative form. I bought this week's Amateur Photographer today. Its content could almost be summed up by the title of this thread :( .
It's contagious, if you ever have the chance to see recent copies of a US magazine "Outdoor Photography", you'll see that the banality of digital is winning the day. :(
I hate pictures of flowers. I hate them even more if there's a bug on them. I hate it when people on other forums ask for comments on them.
Squirrels are OK however.:D
here's the most freaky f'ed up squirrel you've seen in a long time
http://lh6.google.com/leicaphotos/RsyVA8uSILI/AAAAAAAAHUY/2xj5XvZIpoM/s800/0767490-R1-068-32A.jpg
markinlondon
08-22-2007, 13:06
That's one crazy looking squirrel, Memphis. See, we've had two squirrel pictures in this thread and neither of them could be described as cute. I'm encouraged.
I had never seen an albino squirrel before I shot this --- he was skittish as well
I like calendar photos where the work reminds me of galen rowell, the pirelli calendar (Bob Carlos Clarke), pinup calendar photos of days gone by...
But if I could squeeze out a living shooting saturated sunsets, silhouettes, lone footprints in the sand with a trite saying accompanying the image, baboons making silly faces, fat girls for obnoxious greeting cards... pictorial spreads for playboy, victoria secret catalogues, etc... I'd take the work
more of the albino squirrel
http://lh3.google.com/leicaphotos/RsyVrMuSIlI/AAAAAAAAHXo/OGOoVLRR0Bc/s800/0767490-R1-064-30A.jpg
http://lh6.google.com/leicaphotos/RsyVl8uSIhI/AAAAAAAAHXI/Amzg3_q7BTI/s800/0767490-R1-076-36A.jpg
Just out of interest, which camera/lens did you take these pictures with?
colin
Colin - they were shot about 2 years ago with a nikon f90x and a 70-200 zoom that was at about f4.5 I believe ---
I've since sold the nikons and am solely using rangefinder gear
It’s tough at the top Keith; go down the pub, get stoated and explain your vision to anyone who’ll listen
Works for me
:) :)
sweathog
08-22-2007, 14:27
If you cannot see that my photo is the pinnacle of artistic expression, you must be an idiot, says I.
Ok, that was just for a laugh. A collegue of mine and I were talking, and realised that if we were running our own shop we'd go bust because we'd tell 95% of people to go do one.
As has been said, it is alright to be elitist if you only act elitist around other elitists, take into account that the 'fool' may be a wise man in another area.
God, that made very little sense. I think maybe I should go for a lie down.
Just a thought . . the first two squirrels were black and white, then the third one is black-and-white . . .
Is there a subliminal message ??? :)
Have to agree about the chocolate-box picture preferences of the normal person though. Depressing isn't it ? The average persons feeling on black-and-white photography frequently seems the same as that reserved for those who bolt fibre-glass "wings" and illuminated radio-aerials on their clapped out old cars, or go to railway-stations and write down the train numbers. Alternatively, maybe I'm having a gloomy evening.
shadowfox
08-22-2007, 15:43
You guys had to see the (funny) irony.
This thread started by talking about being among the "elites" (compared to the masses who just can't be bothered to care) and somewhere it turns to a parade of fuzzy squirrel pictures...
Got to love RFF :)
Steve Bellayr
08-22-2007, 16:01
Albino squirrels are quite common in the District of Columbia, USA.
matt fury
08-22-2007, 16:50
It's funny, I guess I'm pretty lucky with my friends. We attend social events together, and there's always another photog or two there. Afterwards, I get comments like "Oh, I like how the background is blurry there." Things like that where they basically positively comment on the unique characteristics of my shots that the other (all DSLR or P&S) shooters don't have.
foto_fool
08-22-2007, 17:27
I'm not sure I can participate in this thread because I don't have any shots of squirrels, and my wife won't let me post any photos of her shooting the squirrel. (I know - bad joke.)
I have found for every wanker who tells me that sharp, over-saturated digital triteness is the epitome of photographic art I get one cultural sophisticate who likes available-light B/W shots.
Now THAT'S elitist.
- John
back alley
08-22-2007, 17:37
squirrels are just kinda cute rats, ya know, with fuzzier tails.
when i was deep into poetry writing i was part of a small writer's group and i found that great fun and highly educational.
i would like to enjoy that sort of thing with photography but the closest i imagine is a photo club and that idea puts me to sleep.
i would be ecstatic to find some shooters in my area and to meet on a regular basis.
as for the unwashed looking at my stuff and offering advice, i shoot for my own enjoyment. as to those offering me tips on gear...they rarely do it a second time.
joe
Joe Mondello
08-22-2007, 17:58
Am I just becoming an elitest wanker through hanging out with you guys too long ... or are these well meaning knuckleheads testing your patience as well as mine on a fairly regular basis? :D :D :D
Both! :D :bang:
We don't have squirrels in Oz so I already feel like an outcast! :p
I loved the film 'High Fidelity' where the guy in the second hand record store would abuse people for daring to ask for a particular record that he disliked and thought was crap ... and would try to force them to buy something that he thought was worthwhile ... we're not that bad ... are we?
Another great elitest comes to mind ... Basil Fawlty! The Brits do elitism far better than anyone else ... and they have squirrels!
The nearest I could find to a squirrel ... :D
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/wheelie52/RFF%20Storage/Goanna_08_resize.jpg
Anupam Basu
08-22-2007, 18:24
Aw, c'mon. Why knock bug photos? If they aren't your thing, that's fine. But they are great fun to shoot. I have seen my share of godawful street shots as well.
-Ahttps://mywebspace.wisc.edu/basu/web/gallery/Closeups/slides/060602_19.jpg
Matthew Allen
08-22-2007, 18:29
This thread is hysterical.:D
Matthew
Okay, so getting back to the MacPhoto thing... I was showing an album of mine to a friend who commented "Man, these are great! They look like poscards! I know that photographers hate to hear that, but REALLY... they look just like postcards". 10 seconds before he said that, I thought I was an elitist. He was honest and in retrospect he was right! So what to do? My choice was to either get some coaching and make some major changes in what I considered to be my style, OR start figuring out how to shoot some REALLY GOOD postcards. I ended up trying to do both. You (pl.) may or may not have noticed that I haven't posted any pictures in the forum, but i will once I've figured out to navigate the software you'll all be able to see my MacPostcards.
BH
Cliches should be avoided like the plague.
alcaraban
08-23-2007, 03:21
In my ten years learning violin, I have experienced the MacPhoto syndrome and the MacMusic. I assume that preferring Strawinsky to Clayderman takes a long time to learn. (As I type it, I realize that maybe you are Photo elitist but not Music elitists :bang: :bang: ).
We don't have squirrels in Oz so I already feel like an outcast!
If that makes you to feel better, you can take a dozen of Brits squirrels in the Outback and liberate them, like others did in the past with the rabbits, the camels, etc.
I can't believe this thread has 46 posts, and no-one has posted this.
Chris, I see your McDonald's and raise you some poppies and daisies.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1367/1213573732_afbb633aae_o.jpg
Surely but surely .... someone has some puppies .... or kittens ~~~~~ :rolleyes:
Mind you ... I'll say one thing for 'Maccas' .....
... the buns are always fresh!
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/wheelie52/RFF%20Storage/TheModel_33.jpg
Am I just becoming an elitest wanker...
Well, not the words I would choose...:D ;)
Why do you think someone who has not put any effort into learning an art would actually have any visual sophistication? Just coz you got a pair of eyes don't mean you can see?
I can't believe this thread has 46 posts, and no-one has posted this.
They are everywhere, Chris, even in Moscow:
http://ferider.smugmug.com/photos/13427464-M.jpg
Cheers,
Roland.
shadowfox
08-23-2007, 11:39
Surely but surely .... someone has some puppies .... or kittens ~~~~~ :rolleyes:
Mind you ... I'll say one thing for 'Maccas' .....
... the buns are always fresh!
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/wheelie52/RFF%20Storage/TheModel_33.jpg
Hmmm, wonder what's that all about (the photobucket thing)?
Clichés - cute kids in color ...
http://homepage.mac.com/rayhill2/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/Park4a.jpg
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