2 Questions about 2 Minolota Film Slrs

[JeremyLangford]

I'm trying to decide on a camera for my high-school film photography class but I have some questions first.

First off. Here is a Minolta srt 201.

The shutter speed goes from 1000th to 1 sec as you can see in this picture.

http://i10.tinypic.com/4pvwopy.jpg

Im used to have up to a 30 second shutter on my dads 30d to use for a slow shutter shot.

Is there just no way to use a slower shutter than one second on this camera? I see that there is also a "Bulb" mode, but how in the world would I be able to know how long of an exposure is needed when in "Bulb" mode?

Second. Here is a Minolra xg1.

The shutter speed is also 1000th to 1 second and a "Bulb" mode.

http://i12.tinypic.com/5xe2sz6.jpg

This camera has an aperture priority mode and also a manual mode.

However, The camera's light meter only works when in aperture priority.

Does this mean that the only way to set the shutter manually is to have your own seperate light meter?

Also, does this mean that I still can't have a slower shutter than 1 second? Id really like to be able to shoot a 30 second shutter shot sometime.

[gavinlg]

My honest advice to you is to have a look at the Pentax K1000 or something like an olympus om1 or om2.
I'm not a huge fan of early minolta SLRs, they just seem very.... primitive. I know other people on this forum do like them though. Perhaps an early Nikon would serve quite well as well. That thing with the light meter not working in manual mode - scary. Would be annoying to use.

[JeremyLangford]

do you know the answers to any of the questions?

[gavinlg]

Sorry, just putting forward an opinion back there. I can try help out though:
With the srt 201, theres no way to get a slower mode besides using the bulb setting. For that you will need a cable release, and to time it somehow. You can just use a stopwatch but it's not all that accurate.

On the xg1 I have no experience, but usually on cameras with an auto aperture priority mode, they are able to go for much longer than the indicated 1 second in the viewfinder/on the shutter speed dial. For instance my om2n can go for a very long time - a matter of minutes in fact. I haven't pushed it to see where the limit of the Av priority is.
With the lightmeter only working in aperture priority, some people use that mode to meter in and then switch back to manual and apply the reading.

[JeremyLangford]

Sorry, just putting forward an opinion back there. I can try help out though:
With the srt 201, theres no way to get a slower mode besides using the bulb setting. For that you will need a cable release, and to time it somehow. You can just use a stopwatch but it's not all that accurate.

On the xg1 I have no experience, but usually on cameras with an auto aperture priority mode, they are able to go for much longer than the indicated 1 second in the viewfinder/on the shutter speed dial. For instance my om2n can go for a very long time - a matter of minutes in fact. I haven't pushed it to see where the limit of the Av priority is.
With the lightmeter only working in aperture priority, some people use that mode to meter in and then switch back to manual and apply the reading.

Oh ok. That makes sense.

I just wish there that the light meter showed a better range of shutter speeds. Oh well though.

[ltketch]

I have an XG9 and yes if you want to use manual mode you would need to have and extra lightmeter or switch from aperture priority back to manual...its not a practicle solution!

Are you restricted to just these 2 specific Minolta models?

[ully]

The SRT's were considered good cameras at the time they were new. Pickup a lightmeter on ebay, I got one for USD 10 and use a release on B mode.

Cheers

[JeremyLangford]

I am not restricted to these 2 modes.

I am restricted to Minolta however, and I am only going to buy a camera with a DOF preview.

The SRT 201 seems like a good choice because it does have a DOF preview and I think I would enjoy learning film on a fully manual.

If you use an f/16 or even smaller in a dark area with a SRT 201, does it just force the camera into "bulb" mode?

Would I have to have a seperate light meter for any picture with a shutter slower than 1 sec?

[Kin Lau]

To use the SRT201 in Bulb, just set it to B.

F8 with iso100 film indoors at night will require a longer than 1 sec shutter speed.

A X-700 or X-570 is a better choice and shouldn't be too hard to find. Both have DOF preview, Aperture priority mode, full manual mode and very bright VF's. Both will keep the shutter open for about 4 secs in A mode.

[ZeissFan]

The SRT 201 doesn't have auto exposure, so camera has no say in what shutter speed is used. It can only recommend exposure settings.

Like the others have said here, if you want anything longer than 1 second, you'll need a release cable and a stopwatch (or you can simply guess). Once you get to 30 seconds, you have to factor in reciprocity failure. And once you get to 30 seconds, missing your exposure by one or two seconds isn't going to make that much difference.

[ltketch]

I also have a Minolta XD-7 (XD-11 in the USA), it is metered in all modes!

http://www.rokkorfiles.com/XD11.html

if your budget allows it'd probably make a camera that would be useful for longer, or the X-700/X-570 as previously mentioned!

[Bingley]

I second the recommendation on an X700. If you haven't committed yet to the SRT, you might give the X700 a serious look. Also check out the rokkorfiles homepage for more detailed info on Minolta film camera models.

[nikon_sam]

If you're taking a class to learn how to use a camera and take decently exposed photos then a totally manual camera is the way to go...as far as exposure beyond 1 second put the camera in "B" or bulb mode and use a locking cable release...you can count out the time or use a watch...

[John Noble]

I "third" the X-700 recommendation, though you might consider a X-570 which has a nice metered manual mode. The main reason for getting a X-700 is the really good TTL flash metering. It has DOF preview, and will (like my XG-1) work in near total darkness in AE mode. Exposures over a few seconds should be done in "B" mode anyway due to reciprocity failure (which you'll learn about).

I thought about getting a SRT a while back but decided against it because compared to a X-700, a SRT is bigger, heavier, and older; it doesn't have AE (never mind "P" mode), and it is far less capable with a flash. "Desirable" SRTs (e.g. late model SRT-201s) in nice condition are also more expensive than X-series bodies. I'd avoid any of the XG-series bodies.

If I was in your shoes, I'd get one of the X-700 + f/1.4 50mm kits KEH has right now. BGN condition will run you all of $88.00! I paid more than that for my X-700 body alone and felt like I got a good deal. Add a 28mm lens for fifty bucks or less and a 135mm for another thirty or forty clams, and you'll be ready for almost any situation. If you need flash (and there are times you will), another twenty bucks will get you a Sunpak 433D. I have one, and it works great. (I love the 1980s paparazzi vibe I get with that flash plus a Motor Drive 1 and 70-210mm zoom on my X-700. Sure, it weighs five pounds but I look cool. Or maybe not.)

Check it out here (http://www.keh.com/). I can't seem to post a complete link -- just look in the "Camera Store" section under "Minolta Manual Focus".

Minoltas are a great bargain. I like them so much I bought one of their rangefinder bodies, too. :)

[lZr]

Sorry I take your thoughts different way. I don't think you can see any difference between 25 or 35 sec exposure time. So, use B and any timer available. Take into account the film response curve in use and double your exposure metered handheld. Either way you will want to adjust for better exposure next time. Camera brand has nothing in this equation

[IGMeanwell]

I will also say the X series

but on my end, I will suggest the X-370, smaller body, great handling, its AE but does meter in manual mode as well ... also an incredible viewfinder, my favorite of any manual focus SLR I have used

I have the 50mm 1.7 MC Rokkor, the 28mm 2.8 Rokkor X, and 135mm 2.8 Rokkor that I noticed is going on KEH for only 40 bucks .... the 50mm is surprisingly sharp and amazing out of focus characteristics

[rover]

A couple of thoughts, first off, the SRT is an excellent camera. Every bit the match of the advanced amateur fully manual lines from Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Olympus....... from the 1970s. All of the companies made very good cameras, don't give credence to anyone who tells you different, they are just talking cosmetics and personal taste.

That 201 has a self timer, mirror lock up, speeds from 1-1/1000s (not many from the 70s will have different), DOF preview, it is an excellent choice for a high school photography class.

Regarding the X-700 and X-570, the 570 is better to use in manual mode, the 700 meter readout will suggest the correct aperture, but not show you the setting you have selected, you have to remove the camera from your eye to check, the 570 displays it in the finder. If you can do without the full program mode and live with just Aperture Priority, the 570 uses the same electronics as the 700, with the advantage of a few more years of refinement. I have read that the improvement in the electronic systems of the 570 from the 700 were significant, though the function may not be that different.

I have no experience with the X-370, but I am sure it is along the same lines as the 700 and 570, but again, newer.

If you are to go with Minoltas, they are great cameras and I am guessing you know they offer as full a line of lenses and accessories as any other brand.

Enjoy.

[JeremyLangford]

If you're taking a class to learn how to use a camera and take decently exposed photos then a totally manual camera is the way to go...


I agree. I would love to have a full-manual.

The thing is, Its really hard for me to find out details about these cameras because they are so old, but you guys are definately helping with that.

Here are the must-haves.

Depth Of Field Preview.
Full Manual Mode that is metered.
A good battery (I read something yesterday about Minoltas having Mercury batteries that are illegal now)
Self-Timer

Is it possible to get a Manual or AP mode that when set to a very small aperture in a dark situation, it will automatically use the correct shutter which may be up to 30 seconds long?

If not then I will have settle with buying a light-meter and stop-watch.

[ltketch]

If you haven't come accross it yet

try for more info

http://www.subclub.org/minman/slrtable.php

from

http://members.aol.com/manualminolta/index.htm

[cmedin]

My honest advice to you is to have a look at the Pentax K1000 or something like an olympus om1 or om2.
I'm not a huge fan of early minolta SLRs, they just seem very.... primitive. I know other people on this forum do like them though. Perhaps an early Nikon would serve quite well as well. That thing with the light meter not working in manual mode - scary. Would be annoying to use.

I have to disagree with you here. The SRT's aren't "primitive" in my opinion; they came with several very nice features, are built well, and the glass is friggin' DIRT CHEAP these days. (I picked up a Rokkor 50/1.7 in fine shape for nine bucks.)

The K1000--not knocking it, it's a fine camera--doesn't do anything slower than a 1 sec exposure either. It also doesn't have MLU, nor DOF preview, both of which are present on the SRT.

Just my $.02...

[spyder2000]

One thing I didn't see any reference to above (not saying it isn't there, just that I missed it if it is) is that, in general, internal camera meters operate only within a specified range of exposure values. Meaning that after some seemingly arbitrary point in the range, the meter indicates it is 'out of range' - how it does so is camera-dependent. Modern electronics extended this considerably so many will correctly time a long exposure.

For a photo course, that is not what you want and I'd recommend against it. The SRT has all the features needed PLUS long exposures will not place any additional demands on your battery. In fact, the camera is not battery dependent: that shutter is mechanical and about as perfect as you can get. Between X models and SRT's, the glass is all interchangable, so use the SRT and some fine Rokkor optics.

As for batteries, there are acceptable subsititutes available, but buy a hand held light meter. Learn to use incident readings when possible and learn how to interpret the scene and your meter. Do not point a metered camera and blindly put the 'needle in the tennis racket'. Visualize what you seek and capture it with the tools available to you.

[Finder]

One thing I didn't see any reference to above (not saying it isn't there, just that I missed it if it is) is that, in general, internal camera meters operate only within a specified range of exposure values. Meaning that after some seemingly arbitrary point in the range, the meter indicates it is 'out of range' - how it does so is camera-dependent. Modern electronics extended this considerably so many will correctly time a long exposure.

All meters, whether handheld or in a camera no matter when they were manufactured, have a useable exposure range.

[IGMeanwell]

I agree. I would love to have a full-manual.

The thing is, Its really hard for me to find out details about these cameras because they are so old, but you guys are definately helping with that.

Here are the must-haves.

Depth Of Field Preview.
Full Manual Mode that is metered.
A good battery (I read something yesterday about Minoltas having Mercury batteries that are illegal now)
Self-Timer

Is it possible to get a Manual or AP mode that when set to a very small aperture in a dark situation, it will automatically use the correct shutter which may be up to 30 seconds long?

If not then I will have settle with buying a light-meter and stop-watch.

Honestly your best bet is the X-500 or X-570, or the step up X-700

http://www.rokkorfiles.com/X-570.htm

http://www.rokkorfiles.com/X-700.html

uses an alkaline or lithium batteries (2 1.5v or 1 3.0v), readily available

[like2fiddle]

I've had a SRT-201 since the 1970's, it was my very first "real" camera. It has never missed a beat. Yes, full manual, but that is the best way to learn. There are many excellent Rokkor lenses to choose from too - my favorite is a 45/2 Rokkor that is tack sharp and very, very small for a SLR lens. There's the battery issue, but for that there's wein cells. However, being a fully mechanical camera, and since you will need an external meter for those bulb exposures, why bother with the internal meter at all? Though I have to admit, I still prefer the match needle meter to a diode meter. Have fun with whatever you decide. I agree with what others before me have said regarding the build of 70's cameras in general - any of the major brands will do you well.

[John Noble]

Just a couple of points here:


That 201 has a self timer, mirror lock up, speeds from 1-1/1000s (not many from the 70s will have different), DOF preview, it is an excellent choice for a high school photography class.


To the best of my knowledge, MLU was discontinued with the introduction of the SRT-101(c) in 1971. I could be wrong, but with SRTs you always have to check the specific body to see if it has MLU since there were so many variants made with the same model number.


Regarding the X-700 and X-570, the 570 is better to use in manual mode, the 700 meter readout will suggest the correct aperture,


I believe you meant to say "shutter speed" not "aperture". Aperture setting is always visible in the finder.

[rover]

You are perhaps correct on in both points. MLU was a feature that came and went on the SRT cameras, even on like models. I have an SRT 101 with MLU, but there are 101s without it. I just noticed the photograph in the first post was "borrowed" from Karen Nakamura and not our poster's own photo (naughty naughty). At any rate, you can see the MLU on that camera on the right of the lens mount housing above the DOF preview button. I made my comment based on the photo without looking up the specs of the camera.

[John Noble]

I agree. I would love to have a full-manual.

The thing is, Its really hard for me to find out details about these cameras because they are so old, but you guys are definately helping with that.

Here are the must-haves.

Depth Of Field Preview.


SRT series (some are locking, later models are not), X-700, and X-570.


Full Manual Mode that is metered.


The X-700 will do this, as will (I think) the X-370: in manual mode, the meter's recommended shutter speed appears in the finder. The X-570 shows both the manually set shutter speed and the meter's recommendation, which is why X-570s are more valuable on the used market.


A good battery (I read something yesterday about Minoltas having Mercury batteries that are illegal now)


This rules out most (all?) SRTs unless you have the meter re-calibrated for modern batteries. Later SRTs may not need a re-calibration, but you'll need to research the exact model (and version of that model!) to be sure.


Self-Timer


Most SRT bodies and all X bodies have it.


Is it possible to get a Manual or AP mode that when set to a very small aperture in a dark situation, it will automatically use the correct shutter which may be up to 30 seconds long?


30 seconds? No. Even if the meter worked that far down, the film doesn't work the same as it does with shorter exposures. You're better off using a wristwatch or counting one-potato, two-potato...

If not then I will have settle with buying a light-meter and stop-watch.

Light meters are good to have, but not essential. You seem to be worried about extremely long exposures -- are you planning on doing astrophotography?

[IGMeanwell]

Just a couple of points here:



To the best of my knowledge, MLU was discontinued with the introduction of the SRT-101(c) in 1971. I could be wrong, but with SRTs you always have to check the specific body to see if it has MLU since there were so many variants made with the same model number.



I believe you meant to say "shutter speed" not "aperture". Aperture setting is always visible in the finder.

Correct on the suggestion of shutter speed not aperture ...

The viewfinder on those models are truly excellent, very easy to read and use

DOF preview is on both the X-570 and X-700 ... its not on the X-370

not sure on the SRTs

[John Noble]

You are perhaps correct on in both points. MLU was a feature that came and went on the SRT cameras, even on like models. I have an SRT 101 with MLU, but there are 101s without it. I just noticed the photograph in the first post was "borrowed" from Karen Nakamura and not our poster's own photo (naughty naughty). At any rate, you can see the MLU on that camera on the right of the lens mount housing above the DOF preview button. I made my comment based on the photo without looking up the specs of the camera.

The "borrowed" photo is of Karen's SRT-101, see her page on the 101/201. :)

[rover]

This table is a little "busy" for my eyes, but it has the info our poster is looking for.

http://www.subclub.org/minman/slrtable.php

[JeremyLangford]

Ok. I have an available camera that I can buy on ebay. It is an srt 101

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320146400519&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011


I really need these questions answered before I consider buying it.


1)Is this camera a metered full manual camera?
2) Does this camera have DOF preview?
3) Does this camera have a self-timer?
4) Does this camera have an old mercury battery that I would need to replace?
5) Does this camera have multiple expusures?
Thanx

[shadowfox]

Jeremy, most of your questions are already answered in the above-mentioned, very comprehensive Minolta fan site.

I just have a couple of points.

- Don't be intimidated by the lack of meter. Especially if you're taking photography class. You will pay attention and learn much more by "ignoring" the meter when you're learning. If your teacher can't even teach you how to meter using Sunny-16 rule, well, find another teacher :) (I am assuming that you really like photography and would like to pursue it).

- Don't worry about cameras requiring old mercury battery, solutions abound. One of the better ones are camera adapters. There used to be only one or two expensive options, but now there is a new option. Contact Jon Goodman (JGood21967@aol.com) and ask him about the battery adapter he just come out with, and tell him Will sent you :)

- I have a Minolta XE-7, very robust, excellent camera, has everything you wanted and more, if you can get one of these for a bargain, don't pass it up. As for your original choice, I'd go with the SRT series rather than the XG series.

Good luck with your class,
Will

[Steve Bellayr]

1. yes
2. yes
3. yes
4. yes...varta v 625 u or go to criscam.com buy their insert will provide more accurate reading
5. I don't think so.

One avoidable problem on that camera. Keep the meter turned off when not in use as it supposedly drains batteries. (I have always kept mine turned off so I can't advise further.)

[irq506]

i sell a ton of SRT's every summer to all the schools in the Seattle and Eastern WA areas, plainly because these things are solid no messing around great manually controllable cameras with little reliance on batteries.
Similar machines in other brands and price range would be Nikkormat, OM1, K1000, FTb etc.
Stay with the SRT if you want a reliable camera over time. Minolta had terrible electronics which are all failing or have failed and are no longer replaceable.

[Kin Lau]

Ok. I have an available camera that I can buy on ebay. It is an srt 101

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320146400519&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011


I really need these questions answered before I consider buying it.


1)Is this camera a metered full manual camera?
2) Does this camera have DOF preview?
3) Does this camera have a self-timer?
4) Does this camera have an old mercury battery that I would need to replace?
5) Does this camera have multiple expusures?
Thanx

1-4 is yes, #5 is not-really... but there's a workaround.

I just use a regular alkaline replacement battery. With colour or B&W neg film, it's not enough of a difference to worry about.

I find that the SRT series does not have an accurate enough meter to use in dimly lit areas.

[rover]

An ebay option, go with a very well respected seller and repair person. The reserve for his current SRT is probably about $125, the camera is fully serviced though and you will have nothing but pleasant surprises.

He lists cameras every week, normally there is an SRT and X-700 in his sales.

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZtitterington

Note, I have sent my SRTs to him for service, he really is a very good person to deal with.

[JeremyLangford]

1. yes
2. yes
3. yes
4. yes...varta v 625 u or go to criscam.com buy their insert will provide more accurate reading
5. I don't think so.



Well thank you guys a lot. I think I will try to buy the one I linked to on ebay.

All I have to do is replace the battery and maybe look into a way to work-around being able to do a multiple exposure. Does anyone have a tip on how to do this?

[JeremyLangford]

Well thank you guys a lot. I think I will try to buy the one I linked to on ebay.

All I have to do is replace the battery and maybe look into a way to work-around being able to do a multiple exposure. Does anyone have a tip on how to do this?

Couldnt you just take a picture, then advance the film. Then press the rewind button and rewind the film back one full turn so that its on the previous picture and then take the second exposure?

[Nokton48]

Hi Jeremy,

I've got six Minolta SRT's, including the Minolta SR-M, the motorized model. You cannot go wrong with these cameras, but the last ones, like the SRT-201/202, offer modern conveniences, like brighter (accute-matte) screens, and double-exposure capabilities, by pushing in the rewind button.

The SRT-101 (early) is my personal preference. And I bought a SRT-100 new in the box in 1973. So these cameras are really old friends. Rokkor lenses were particularly cutting-edge at the time. Consider the 21mm f2.8 MC Rokkor, it's an absolute killer.

Regarding the long exposures, buy a cheapo generic cable release. The film will see little difference between 20 and 30 seconds. I used to count "a thousand one, a thousand two" and it's really not critical at all.

Most Minolta meters work just fine with a six-dollar 1.35Vv Wein cell.

[JeremyLangford]

Hi Jeremy,

I've got six Minolta SRT's, including the Minolta SR-M, the motorized model. You cannot go wrong with these cameras, but the last ones, like the SRT-201/202, offer modern conveniences, like brighter (accute-matte) screens, and double-exposure capabilities, by pushing in the rewind button.



So can I not do a manual multiple exposure by pressing the rewind button with the SRT-101 in this link?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320146400519&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011

[Nokton48]

Jeremy,

That's a nice SRT-101, but no mention at all in the original instruction book, as to making multiple exposures, so I am fairly sure that the answer is -no-.

If you google search, you will find these instruction booklets online.

Only the SRT-202 will do double-exposures with the rewind button, according to the original instruction book. This was not a feature in the earlier cameras.

[ltketch]

Someone at the manual minolta users group might know!

Manual Minolta Users Group (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/minolta-manual-focus/)

(or the Qn may have been asked there already)

[ernstk]

I've just tried it on my SRT 101 (ser. number 1701064) and it works. It takes almost 2 strokes of the wind-on lever to cock the shutter again and you have to hold the film rewind button in while doing this, otherwise the shutter can't be released for the second exposure.

You also have to hold the film rewind crank firmly, with tension on the film, so that there is no 'drag' on the film when the wind-on lever is used.

This sounds complicated to describe but is much easier to understand in practice.

Regards
Ernst

[JeremyLangford]

I've just tried it on my SRT 101 (ser. number 1701064) and it works. It takes almost 2 strokes of the wind-on lever to cock the shutter again and you have to hold the film rewind button in while doing this, otherwise the shutter can't be released for the second exposure.

You also have to hold the film rewind crank firmly, with tension on the film, so that there is no 'drag' on the film when the wind-on lever is used.

This sounds complicated to describe but is much easier to understand in practice.

Regards
Ernst

Ausome

Thank You

[Nokton48]

I know I've tried that before with my 100 and 101's, and it does work, sort of. You can still get -slight- forward advance of the film (maybe .5mm to 1mm), (sometimes) using the technique. But to non-critical double exposures (not requiring absolutely perfect frame registration) it will work, but for more critical multiple exposures, I'd still go with the SRT-202.

My seventeen year old son is taking a high school photography class, and wanted his own camera. We bought him a nice SRT202 and four lenses for $50 at a local camera show. Then we had the body -overhauled-.

[ernstk]

You're right. It doesn't feel exact but it does seem to work approximately.

Ernst