View Full Version : trying to restore: do photographers have more "loner" tendencies
An interesting thread that got deleted during the restore procedure was one asking the question, Do photographers have more "loner" tendencies than the general population?
Several people posted, generally saying yes, and giving examples from their lives.
Gabriel suggested that this was not a tendency among photographers, who in his experience are quite social, but rather is among camera collectors.
If you want, we can start this again, as Randy inquired about it.
I indicated that I am quite happy when I'm on my own and don't require being around others all the time. I also noted that I enjoy motorcycle riding which is a solitary experience (with social opportunities while stopped of course.) I am also a natural observer, quite enjoying my job during university days as a doorman/bouncer, night after night watching the patrons become inebriated while I stayed sober and watchful.
Those who control history control the future: Big Brother.
I think that photographers are basically doing a "personal" activity, and that many of the things we do fall into that category. I'm a fly fisherman, which, while not necessarily done along, requires some space. I practice and teach T'ai Chi Ch'uan, and while it's certainly done in groups, requires one to be HIGHLY self-focused while performing the forms.
There's a natural protagonist/antagonist situation when photography happens, as the photographer is looking for a particular image, and is physically and mentally separated from the subject, whether it's formal portraiture, landscape, candids, or any other manifestation of what photographers do.
Also, some folks are naturally less social than others, and it seems to me (I'm not a psychologist, nor do I play one on TV) THAT would lend itself to the "Observer" role that a photographer assumes.
Enough!
Regards!
Don
Perhaps they do. I do my best shooting when I'm alone. I often go on shoots with other photographers in the area because we enjoy the social aspect of chatting in the local Starbucks then shooting for awhile. But I enjoy the 'photography' aspect of it more when I get up early, take a camera or two, perhaps a tripod if it's pre-dawn, and just stroll and think about what I'm shooting.
Gene
It may be also that lonely people who happen to be photography hobbyist find an alternative outlet to "meet" friends. It does not necessarily imply that every photographer is a loner.
Quite often, friends die or move away, and also relatives get busy with their own lives, and then having a friendly website such as RFF is a way to reach out to others who give back.
The hobby/love of photography and related activities (including the accumulation of lenses and cameras) is a way to enjoy life. Can you equate it to excessive chocolate eating [supposedly due to loneliness]? I am not a psychologist to decide.
like2fiddle
08-04-2007, 11:50
Those who control history control the future: Big Brother.
How profoundly true.
I lost a few posts on that lost thread too. To make a long post short, I consider myself a loner. I yearn for alone time and sometimes dream of a contemplative life. While it is just who I am (I too enjoy flyfishing, no longer have a motorcycle but did for many years, practiced Tai Chi and meditation) it is also something I don't have much of right now and so crave it all the more. My life is full between my three teenaged children, wife of 20 years, and full-time job that includes weekends, holidays and on-call time.
I am less cranky, to use Gabriel's word, when I am able to find a little quiet time to just "be" or to pursue a hobby, say like photography.
oftheherd
08-04-2007, 12:11
Interesting question. I never really made such a connection. I enjoy going out with other people to shoot photos. I also enjoy it by myself sometimes. I don't mind being alone, but don't crave it. I'll have to watch myself I guess. Interesting that I once rode dirt bikes and have studied martial arts as some others mentioned. But I can't say I think that to be the norm. Maybe it is just those of us who go on forums? :D
doorman, motorcycle, martial arts, meditation, photographer, camera collector, hmmm....
Motorcycling as a group activity never appealed to me, as one part of the enjoyment was making impulse decisions on route changes. Nor is photography a good group activity I think, for some of the same individualistic reasons that would tend to break up the group.
One occasion in Yosemite Park I stopped when I saw 4 or 5 guys up the hill with tripods, so had to go up to see what interested them. We were all very polite and respectful in staying out of each other's way as we each tried to capture the landscape. One of them was lagging about a half mile behind his photo seminar field group and hurried off to catch them up.
Individual pursuits, maybe, but fun to share the results, whether a good ride story or some nice pics.
PetarDima
08-04-2007, 14:02
I think that '' lonely story'' is in strong connection with photography ...
Results are very good - Kudelka was lonely photographer, - that way of living
can learn a man how to watch and how to write the story with light and camera.
Al Patterson
08-04-2007, 14:09
I'd re-arrange the wording of the question to ask whether loners have photography tendencies. Like artists and writers, photography is usually a solo practice. Musicians and actors tend to work in groups, and being a loner would make this difficult.
Maybe we could look at sports and ask whether tennis players and boxers are loners, while football (american or otherwise) players and baseball players aren't. (basketball is tougher. You can play it yourself, but then how good will you be playing for a team?)
Gabriel M.A.
08-04-2007, 14:27
Gabriel suggested that this was not a tendency among photographers, who in his experience are quite social, but rather is among camera collectors.
Actually, what I said was that there are photographers that are quite social (therefore "being a loner" is not an inherent tendency in general), not that photographers are social. I did suggest that the "tendency" should be more inherent in a camera collector. Collectors (of anything) tend to have certain social detachments.
In my experience, of course, which may be very well far removed from the truth in somebody else's dimension.
Besides, I like to poke fun at those that drive up the prices of the things I like. :angel: (and they at me)
Gabriel M.A.
08-04-2007, 14:34
I'd re-arrange the wording of the question to ask whether loners have photography tendencies.
It's not the same "she has a mountain-hiking ass" than "she has an ass that hikes mountains". We really don't want to go down that proofreading path.
By the very nature of the decision making required in photogaphy, observing composing etc, in a way you are always alone when photographing. So perhaps this imposed solitude has reinforcing effects on people predisposed to being loners. It may also help certain people handle being alone, given that photography can be an all consuming thing that can open many other doors.
By the way I have really enjoyed this place since joining recently, and look forward to more when I return from a trip to Samoa I'm off on tomorrow. With for those interested, a Rollieflex and old canonet, bagload of film, and a polaroid camera to offer locals a picture in exchange for photographing their lives.
Al Patterson
08-04-2007, 14:58
It's not the same "she has a mountain-hiking ass" than "she has an ass that hikes mountains". We really don't want to go down that proofreading path.
You missed the point. Proofreading has nothing to do with it. I'm just suggesting that the order of the question is wrong, IMHO. No more, no less. Open your mind grasshopper....
Todd.Hanz
08-04-2007, 15:09
as I sit here smoking a cigar, BBQing some chicken...alone, I agree that photography is a loner experience by nature. I mean how often can you go un-noticed shooting street photography within a group of photogs? Kinda screws up the stealthy nature. I don't think it's a psyco thing, it's just something better done alone...know what I mean?
Todd
...alone, I agree that photography is a loner experience by nature. I mean how often can you go un-noticed shooting street photography within a group of photogs? Kinda screws up the stealthy nature. I don't think it's a psyco thing, it's just something better done alone...know what I mean?
Todd
I love solitude -I get all the non-solitude I ever need at work and at malls etc.
I learnt early on that hunting in a group was not effective. Analogies to fishing and hunting fit well here, as do crafts (eg oil painting and sculpture). Music is somewhat different...
And what about the "Loner" time in the darkroom or doing photoshop?
Uncle Bill
08-04-2007, 16:04
Interesting thread, I am usually a social animal with a wide varied group of friends. I like skiing and hiking in groups as well as meeting up with other camera nuts to talk about photography but when it comes to the actual mechanics of me going out and making photographic art, I do my best work alone.
doorman, motorcycle, martial arts, meditation, photographer, camera collector, hmmm....Okay Frank, I was probably one of the schmucks you were watching from the door and the only martial art I was ever any good at was SPRINTING!! [whilst screaming like my sister] :eek: But I do still have a BSA Rocket 3 and a Norton Commando stashed in a barn in Oklahoma. I'd prefer to be knee-deep in Flint Creek with a flyrod in my hand as opposed to milling around in crowds. Yet, you don't get many people.shots standing in Flint Creek. Even if I go with friends to some event with the intent of us photoging together, within 15 minutes I will have ditched them and charted my own course - "...catch ya at the coffee shop!"
In my occupation, I get to spend lots and lots of time with a thousand different personality types. I can have slow periods of 3 or 4 days followed by dawn-to-midnight craziness for two weeks. No matter how crazy, I force myself to get away, get alone for a few hours here and there. It's a must and not negotiable.
There are lots of creative people out there. They're the types I prefer to hang with, run with, shoot with, coffee with. They're the types that "get it" when I ditch 'em to go shoot solo. No problem.
Me? A Loner? ... even in a crowd. But alone? Rarely ...just enough to stay sane.
amateriat
08-04-2007, 19:50
To reprise my restoration-deleted post (wow, how Kafkaesque is that?): I'm very much a loner when it comes to my photoraphy (and cycling, too: once an off-road motorcyclist, I've long since abandoned engines for road bicycles, on two-lanes with wide shoulders, like Route 9W), but am emphatically not lonely.
Galfriend and me went out to Governor's Island today. Somewhat reluctantly, I agreed to take the guided tour, led by a guy named Mike Shraver, an Arkansas native with a deep sense of history – military and otherwise – laced with just enough laconic wit, which made the tour as enjoyable as it was eye-opening in terms of stuff I didn't know (and my knowledge of American history, while far from scholarly, is reasonably deep). But, from time to time, I'd go wandering about on my own, finding all sorts of things that interested no one but me, clicking frame after frame, then jogging to catch up with the rest of the group.
This is the "loner" strain kicking in hard, but striving not to be too anti-social in a given setting. Galfriend knows and understands this. She'd have dumped my butt long ago otherwise.
As for hanging with other photographers: other than one-on-one, it doesn't happen much, and rarely when out shooting. We know each other too well to even suggest a group-shoot (even the sound of that seems a tad illicit, doesn't it?). I know their work, and like it a lot, and I also know what level of concentration goes into it. A get-together over dinner or drinks or the like? Sure, maybe even bring over some recent prints to pass around and discuss, I love that. But when I take camera in-hand, it's Hi-yo, Silver, and off down the trail by myself. It's nothing personal. :)
- Barrett
yes photographers are loners—at least during the act of photographing. i shot with another rff'er today in fact. we didn't last two minutes before we were each going our own way.
:)
thomasw_
08-04-2007, 20:35
solitude is necessary for me to do the thinking for composing in photography. same as in fly fishing my other big time hobby, albeit they involve different types of problem solving.
mike goldberg
08-04-2007, 21:09
It seems that many artists, craftsman and photographers are "natural loners." I know that I tend to be that way. My other "career" was that of social worker, which provided a sense of balance.
For the past 12 years, I've worked part-time, and as a volunteer at an agency that supports Holocaust survivors and their families. Thus, I have a strong need to "get away from it all," and lose myself in image making, editing and just a bit of GAS.
And finally, I have very little patience for hours of so-called "small talk" at social gatherings.
Cheers, mike
madsolitaire
08-04-2007, 21:12
What a pity the other postings have been deleted!
Perhaps i did not phrase the original question as clearly and accurately as i could have. Photography in its nature (similar to painting, writing, meditation, composing music, etc) is a solitary activity. One must feel comfortable being alone for extended periods of time. I think we all agree that being alone does not necessarily mean feeling lonely. For some of us, there is a time for connecting with people, and there is a time where we need solitude as much as we need oxygen. I know i am as much drawn to photography as i am to writing, painting and taking a leisurely stroll.
Sometimes, i feel that photography is almost a meditative experience on its own.
Of late, my favourite mantra is: When all is whirling around you, there is one that stands unmoved.
I don't agree that photography as a whole is solitary by nature. Whilst this is true of classic street photography, the portraits of someone like Avedon or Liebowitz require a whole army of people and are based on collaboration and interaction, with not only the subject but assistants, art directors etc. etc.
It's not a social hobby in the way team sports or drinking down at your local pub are. It works best when you are alone with your camera and have no other distractions.
I think its perfectly natural then that people who take their photography seriously tend to be comfortable keeping themselves company, particularly if they are into darkroom stuff which necessitates lots of time alone.
Still there are exceptions like fashion/wedding photographers I guess. My perception is that anyone in that line of work has a greater need for 'people skills' than someone heavily into landscapes for instance.
hammerman
08-05-2007, 01:37
why is this so important? so important that it has to be addressed twice? virtually all artists work in isolation when they are creating and when they are thinking it is an equally contemplative, introspective and pensive time. but this is not necessarily a definition of a personality type, just a method of working through the creative process. at an exhibition, including on-line, we all stand back and wait or observe the reaction to a body of work, but if this question were an exogesis for a doctoral thesis some overzealous socio-psychology student would see it as an opportunity to draw a line of definition of a particular (photographic) somatotype.
thinkers are thinkers, we tune out and act, perform and create. but we drink wine and have discussions in like-minded groups and disassociate ourselves from those who might vehemently disagree. so do accountants. and some like the challenge of being questioned which manifests possibly and likely different personality traits. passive aggressors? agro-recedents?
photographers aren't necessarily to be defined as loners but individuals who are loners might decide to be photographers. many psychotypes are loners but that does not make loners a particular psychotype. if a serial killer is a loner and a photographer is a loner is a photographer a serial killer?
i am a loner when i work and i discuss my work and reasons for working with groups whom i respect and seek out for dynamic and critical debate. i stand my ground for what i feel is my way of working within a certain time or space where what i am doing requires undistracted attention. and i listen to criticism and apply it to the art. this is called learning. but people are important in the debate as much as the process, very much as is this forum, however anonymous.
i work alone, very much a loner when i am working. when i am not being a photographer i am who i am with my friends, i discuss ideas and i cook sausages over the barbeque. when i am a photographer with my clients or friends i am a professional or, in some eyes, a wanker. but i always go back to the camera for satisfaction, not solace.
dj
Michael I.
08-05-2007, 01:54
Street photography is best done alone or with another person tops.
Portraiture, on the other hand,is very much about social skills.
Street photography is best done alone or with another person tops.
Portraiture, on the other hand,is very much about social skills.
I guess that's why I don't do portraiture.
Very great "loner tendencies" here. I love peace and quiet.
Ed
More like Bill Gates, Murdoch, etc, - those that control how information is disseminated, control the world.
Those who control history control the future: Big Brother.
If I wanted to perpetuate the crude Aussie humor stereotype I'd probably say something like the following:
Photography is a lot like masturbation, you can do it with your friends but its a hobby best practised alone!
Not that I would ever sink that low, no way! :D
I work alone because that is the way I take pictures, not from any need for solitude. Pros often have to work with a crowd of people, assistants, stylists, editors, art directors, clients, models, etc. So photography is not necessarily a solitary calling.
shutterflower
08-07-2007, 00:09
I find that I am a loner, naturally, and that even when I am shooting in a crowded place, I am alone mentally.
When I go out to shoot, I really zone everyone out. They become objects in my visual field, really. I went with my friends to Deadbaby Bike Race here in Seattle, and they knew I was going to fall away from the pack and wander around with my camera. I did, of course. And I have some nice pics to show for it.
Photography is not a social pastime. Not even when you're shooting models or portraits. It's not something you do WITH someone. You do it to someone. Or to something. Or somewhere.
At least that is how it is for me in reality. In Paris, I had my iPod in, and I just walked around for 11 days with my camera. Covered alot of ground.
shutterflower
08-07-2007, 00:11
I work alone because that is the way I take pictures, not from any need for solitude. Pros often have to work with a crowd of people, assistants, stylists, editors, art directors, clients, models, etc. So photography is not necessarily a solitary calling.
true. So in the professional sense, photographers are maybe very NOT loners. How about Sante D'Orazio. Not a loner. Very not a loner. And because of his nature, is very successful.
In my world, however, even when I am shooting a girl, I go deep inside.
In my world, however, even when I am shooting a girl, I go deep inside.
I think that was the rap on Sante de what's it. ;)
At least that is how it is for me in reality. In Paris, I had my iPod in, and I just walked around for 11 days with my camera. Covered alot of ground.
That sounds like a hell of way to spend a holiday if you ask me. I bet you walked away with a much better understanding of the city than any tour guide could give you, too.
tedwhite
08-11-2007, 21:20
I feel about being a photographer as I do about being a writer. I sure as hell don't want anyone coming into my study for a chat when I'm writing, nor do I want someone following me around and talking when I'm photographing.
When it's all done with, I do enjoy talking about both with fellow writers and photographers.
Spider67
08-13-2007, 07:55
Even very social photography like weddings events etc. has it's very loney moments: When you are taking pics you are not taking part but are observing.
On the other hand even street photography has it's social moments as you are not sniping down everybody but ask people from time to time - and poeple ask you.
But there are loner tendencies on the collectors side...getting stroinger as soon as the collector drives away his last remaining friend when he starts talking for hours about his precioussss.
But portariture be it clothed be it nude a photgrapher does need the skills of a seducer...also many photoreporters need that talent
But I have noticed that taking pics on a stroll (that easily can become an expedition) is something when I forget that I am alone
tedwhite
08-13-2007, 09:34
In photography I'd like to be "the fly on the wall." Completely un-noticed. Of course that not always possble.
Tough to be a fly on the wall with a big noisy noticeable camera, but on the bright side that might create openings for personal interaction with the "victim"! :)
tedwhite
08-13-2007, 12:56
Just got a Minolta AL RF camera. Its shutter release sound is as quiet as my friend's M6. And for about ten bucks, yet.
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