View Full Version : The "Real" Poor Man's Leica?
NickTrop
07-06-2007, 16:35
The quest for the true "poor man's Leica" leads to the Zorki 4K + good condition Summar 2/50.
I always thought a Leica was out of my price-range. So, like many on this site, over time I purchased several fixed lens Japanese rangefinders - Lynx 14e, GSN, Konica S3, and the Yashica Electro CC. These are all wonderful cameras which I'm sure have been called "the poor man's Leica" - only they're not.
Reason?
They all have fine glass. But it's not Leica glass. While I have been guilty of busting on Leicaphiles, it's true, Leica lenses have a unique and pleasing signature all their own. None of these fine Japanese rangefinders have "Leica" lenses, so they're not "poor man's Leicas..." though they are fine cameras, love and shoot them all.
So, in order to create the "poor man's Leica" one must first start with Leica glass. I wrote off all Leica glass - ltm or M as too expensive. However, there is one lens, imo, that is very affordable that definitely has the Leica look - in *****s. IMO that's the Summar. Enter "Summar" into Flickr tag search, you'll see what I mean.
So I bought one with the funds I recently received from selling off a few MF lenses. I waited for one in VG condition from a reputable seller - Cost with shipping $88. It arrived yesterday. No scratches on the glass, little if any hazing. Barrel functional but a bit scratched. Who cares?
Next, did some homework on FSU 35mm RFs. Decided on the Zorki 4K. Winder, removable back, slow speeds, tops at 1/1000, flash synch. $15 for the camera (body only), $18 to ship from the Ukraine. The camera hasn't arrived yet.
$88+$33= $121
In conclusion, if you're on the true quest for a "poor man's Leica" your quest must start with a Leica lens. The Summar would seem to qualify:
From "Leica Lens Reviews":
2/50 Summar:
The Summar is Leitz's first f 2.0 lens, introduced in 1933. It shows it's best results between f 3.2 and 6.3. In this range, it is comparably sharp, like my Kodak Retina Ia 3.5/50 mm Xenar from the 50ies. In this range, it is a "high contrast lens", but different than we use the phrase today. Here it means, that the lens shows clear colors but hardly shadow details. To give an example: When you look at a tree at dawn or sunset, you clearly see the colors of the bright parts, but the shadows are gone and almost black. That's what the lens does, even in bright daylight. Additionally, the unsharp areas are more unsharp than in a "usual" 50 mm, almost like from the 2/90 mm M Summicron. Both effects (suppression of shadow details and "increased" unsharpness) result in the most impressive 3D or pictoral effect I've ever seen from a 50 mm, incl Noctilux. The highlights are over-pronounced, which gives an additional impression of light in your pictures (like in impressionism). At f 2.0 the corners tend to be dark and the colors are almost gone. It is a warm to neutral lens.
http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/ll.htm
From Cameraquest:
50/2 Leitz Summar (1933-1940): Universally disparaged, I think it's a treasure. These lenses give a wonderful semi-soft focus effect when shot at wide apertures with color film. Very beautiful, great for scenics, women, nudes, romantic images.
Check out any images posted on the web and that this lens is a true "Leica" (perhaps "too" Leica) can not be denied. I really love the images it produced based on the samples on Flickr and other sites. Next, so's not to short-change it, a proper body - all shutter speeds (even if they might be off a bit) is a must. Trigger winder, yes, a must for me in 35. Flash synch - even if it's slow, yes. Something other than the what seem to be a pain in the azz bottom loaders... all roads lead to the Zorki 4k.
So, we'll see if my "theory" holds true once the Zorki arrives in a few weeks and I slap that bebe on her and go "all the way" (take pics), instead of just "fondling" her (the Summar) for now. $88 for the lens + $32 for the camera = po' man's Leica.
Next to locate a proper lens hood.
Gabriel M.A.
07-06-2007, 16:41
I heard this being the Canonet GIII, before prices broke the $40 mark again a few years ago.
But a Zorki 1 with an Industar 61 may fit the "label". That lens takes some nice images.
Maybe it should be more catorigized like this:
Zorki & FED is poor mans Barnack Pre 1950s
Canonnet poor mans Leica 60s to 1999
Bessas poor mans Leica year 2000 to present.
Just my thoughts. Feel free to correct any dates for I'm not a collector and by looking at my arsenal of cameras listed in my profile, I'm defiently considered a poor man.:(
I recommend for a "Poor Man's Leica" outift to get an Elmar 50mm/3.5 or Summar 50mm/2.0 and a Zorkiof FED. Your Summar is unusually inexpensive. It took me six months to find a Summar for around $130.
If you can accept a non-Leitz lens, then my choice would be a Konica S2. The lens is super sharp, and manual exposure control is possible. The camera is built like a rock.
Raid
NickTrop
07-06-2007, 17:20
I recommend for a "Poor Man's Leica" outift to get an Elmar 50mm/3.5 or Summar 50mm/2.0 and a Zorkiof FED.
Yep. What I did.
Your Summar is unusually inexpensive. It took me six months to find a Summar for around $130.
Raid
Dunno. Got lucky I guess. It was $78 + $10 shipping.
Oh! you added to your thread. Now I see. Nick you got a heck of a deal. Less than what I payed for my elmar 50/3.5 to go with my zorki 2c. Way to go.
Yep. What I did.
Dunno. Got lucky I guess. It was $78 + $10 shipping.
Nick,
My first Summar was pristine optically, and it was stolen from my office, with a Zorki. Now I got my second Summar, and I will tomorrow pick up two developed and scanned rolls of film with it. I did well with the first Summar. Let's wait and see how the second Summar did.
Good luck with your set.
Raid
Where do you find Zorkis?
NickTrop
07-06-2007, 17:35
Where do you find Zorkis?
eBay, there were a few. While I know the Jupiters and the Industars are fine lenses, I wanted to dedicate this to the Summar. Actually, buying just the body was less than I expected - $15, cost more to ship ($18).
NickTrop
07-06-2007, 17:36
Oh! you added to your thread. Now I see. Nick you got a heck of a deal. Less than what I payed for my elmar 50/3.5 to go with my zorki 2c. Way to go.
Thank you! The power of "sniping", plus some luck, I suppose. (Don't throw rocks. I snipe. It makes no sense whatsoever to bid early on eBay. You just run up the prices.)
NickTrop
07-06-2007, 17:39
Nick,
My first Summar was pristine optically, and it was stolen from my office, with a Zorki. Now I got my second Summar, and I will tomorrow pick up two developed and scanned rolls of film with it. I did well with the first Summar. Let's wait and see how the second Summar did.
Good luck with your set.
Raid
That's why I keep the Yashica GSN in my office as my "office camera". Plus, in my job I'm the designated photographer and I like the Yash but no loss in a $$$ sense if it's stolen. I leave it out in the open on my desk.
This piece of kit, however, will not be in the office.
Summar is indeed wonderful lens, sometimes I miss the sharpness, but it definitely has soul.
"http://farm1.static.flickr.com/217/492593106_38bb95f62c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/_palec/492593106/)
xayraa33
07-06-2007, 18:21
I hope the 15 dollar Zorki 4k is in good nick and not another russian roulette buy.
murrayatuptown
07-06-2007, 18:23
Sorry to derail the focus of this thread, but I'm curious what descriptive terms people would use for the Argus C3 50 mm lens.
Your descriptions here are interesting in that they are more 'emotional' than the descriptions I read about the Argus (i.e., 'surprisingly good performer within it's limitations...that's cold & analytical and gives of no sense ofhow people really feel about it...maybe no opinion :O) ).
Thanks
Murray
NickTrop
07-06-2007, 18:25
Summar is indeed wonderful lens, sometimes I miss the sharpness, but it definitely has soul.
"http://farm1.static.flickr.com/217/492593106_38bb95f62c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/_palec/492593106/)
Cool shot! Actually, if you scan you can cheat it and add a little sharpness, post. I wouldn't mess with contrast levels, though.
NickTrop
07-06-2007, 18:30
Sorry to derail the focus of this thread, but I'm curious what descriptive terms people would use for the Argus C3 50 mm lens.
Your descriptions here are interesting in that they are more 'emotional' than the descriptions I read about the Argus (i.e., 'surprisingly good performer within it's limitations...that's cold & analytical and gives of no sense ofhow people really feel about it...maybe no opinion :O) ).
Thanks
Murray
Check out some pics of the Summar on Flickr. I haven't shot with it yet, but there's something about the look of that lens I like and even in scans it is pretty distinctive. I actually like the color stuff better than the b&w. Hard to judge it by "MTF"-type talk and adjectives like "sharpness" and "contrasty". One is perhaps only left with "emotional" terms.
Cool shot! Actually, if you scan you can cheat it and add a little sharpness, post. I wouldn't mess with contrast levels, though.
This shot was overexposed and film pushed, the contrast is mostly natural.
Anyway, Summar looks interesting in colour, too. It's a bit saturated and blurred, dreamlike.
Here are a few color photos that I took with the Summar before it got stolen.
Raid
http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=606483
I've never owned or even held a 4K, so I can't make a judgement there. I just never had the urge, even for $15. I do like the Gabriel & gb hill suggestion to take a look at a Zorki.1.
Except they fit none of Nick's criteria - no lever winder, removable back, slow speeds, 1/1000, or flash synch. (Of course, my Leica.IIIs have slow speeds, but none of the other qualities either. ;) ) And it's likely, even with much patience and diligence, you'd end up looking high and low to find a Zorki.1 for even 4 or 5 times Nick's 4K money. So a Zorki.1 Po.Man would have to change criteria and add some dollars to the pot.
But if it's a Po.Man's.Barnack you're after, the Zorki.1 is just pretty darn close in size and feel... IMHO. Again, I've never even played with a 4K, so I can't compare, but I also very much like the quality build of the Zorki.1. Mine works quite nicely and feels tough as a tank.
I'm with ya 100% though Nick on the Summar choice. I've mostly been shooting 35 & 28mm lately, but my Summar is the one 50 I carry along.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c138/CVBLZ4/GoK/po.jpg?t=1183784858
NickTrop
07-07-2007, 03:49
Here are a few color photos that I took with the Summar before it got stolen.
Raid
http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=606483
Raid - I think these pictures are absolutely stunning. Great shots.
NickTrop
07-07-2007, 03:57
I've never owned or even held a 4K, so I can't make a judgement there. I just never had the urge, even for $15. I do like the Gabriel & gb hill suggestion to take a look at a Zorki.1.
Except they fit none of Nick's criteria - no lever winder, removable back, slow speeds, 1/1000, or flash synch. (Of course, my Leica.IIIs have slow speeds, but none of the other qualities either. ;) ) And it's likely, even with much patience and diligence, you'd end up looking high and low to find a Zorki.1 for even 4 or 5 times Nick's 4K money. So a Zorki.1 Po.Man would have to change criteria and add some dollars to the pot.
But if it's a Po.Man's.Barnack you're after, the Zorki.1 is just pretty darn close in size and feel... IMHO. Again, I've never even played with a 4K, so I can't compare, but I also very much like the quality build of the Zorki.1. Mine works quite nicely and feels tough as a tank.
I'm with ya 100% though Nick on the Summar choice. I've mostly been shooting 35 & 28mm lately, but my Summar is the one 50 I carry along.
I went round and round on it and considered the Feds, other Zorkis, but came around to the Zorki4. I'm a little leery of the price, but perhaps the cameras aren't worth as much as the lens. I know the FSU 50's are supposed to be very good, and from my experience with the MF Kiev 60, I have full confidence in FSU glass, but I wanted one without a lens (have too many 50's already in various mounts...) Low and behold, two were up on the bay.
We'll see how I fared when it comes in. Almost wish it was a little more pricey. The lens, however, is in very good condition optically. Not even light scratches but the barrel has lots of light scratches.
This will go off to DAG after I play with is a spell.
Another Summar fan, I see. Why do people hate this lens?
By the way - that's a sweet looking kit.
Matthew Allen
07-07-2007, 07:20
Some interesting thoughts in this thread. Forgive my lack of knowledge, but are there any issues of focus calibration when using Leica glass on FSU cameras? I was under the impression that even though the mounts were interchangeable, it was possible that without adjustment the Leica lens wouldn't focus correctly.
Matthew
This will go off to DAG after I play with is a spell.
Nick,
You do know the cost of sending items to DAG?
Maybe this is the best way; get something at low cost and then have it CLA'd by one of the very best repair people.
Raid
Some interesting thoughts in this thread. Forgive my lack of knowledge, but are there any issues of focus calibration when using Leica glass on FSU cameras? I was under the impression that even though the mounts were interchangeable, it was possible that without adjustment the Leica lens wouldn't focus correctly.
Matthew
Matthew: This is a good point that you have raised. I usually use FSU lenses on Leica cameras, and I have not found any problems yet. Maybe someone using Leitz lenses on FSU cameras can give us clarifications. I am sure that Brian Sweeney could help out here.
Raid
"Another Summar fan, I see. Why do people hate this lens?"My reading has indicated the Summars have a rep for being "soft" as opposed to the "tack sharp" of other Leitz glass.
I guesstimate focus 90% of the time, so obviously [I]tack sharp is just not that important in my world. The soft quality was actually rather inviting. But I found, as Raid's great shots demonstrate, there's just not much lacking in the Summar.... IMHO.
After paying a dirt.cheap.po.man's.price, mine came as stiff as a corpse with a bumper crop of fungus and a prize winning deep scratch in the front element. The barrel has 70 years of scratches as well with brass showing on several fronts, which, BTW, meshes well with my brass laden Barnacks. I gave it a good kitchen table clean and lube, eradicating the fungus with balsamic vinegar, removing/replacing old grease and praying over the scratch. :angel: It'll never be a showpiece, but I'm quite content with it's performance. Looking forward to your findings on the 4K. Poor.Man's.Leica sounds like a good ongoing experiment.
Matthew, I only have two Leica lenses; the Summar and an Elmar 9cm. Both are 1936 vintage. So in my limited experience (and failing eyesight :cool: ) as far as Leica lens on FSU bodies, thus far I've only used these two lenses on Zorki.1s and have had no problem. I consider myself fortunate.
But I would hazard a guess that there's no guarantees either way; that they'll work or need work. Despite what the factory's original intent was, in both Germany and Russia, the fact is, old cameras and old lenses that are 50 to 70 years along have almost assuredly been taken apart and put back together numerous times by pillaging bunglers like me. And even the best advertising photos don't reveal the aftermath's condition. You just can't know what has been mis-aligned, mal-adjusted and generally screwed up until you get it in your hands.
Should they work? Yes. Can they work? Yes. Will they work when you first pull them out of the brown paper wrapping and yak hair string? Who knows? "Finding out is the fun part..." the voices tell him as he awaits the postman with twitching eyes and trembling hands. :o
erikhaugsby
07-07-2007, 11:03
Nick,
You do know the cost of sending items to DAG?
Maybe this is the best way; get something at low cost and then have it CLA'd by one of the very best repair people.
Raid
This is what Sherry Krauter sent me when I asked how much lens CLAs cost:
A lens comes apart in basically 2 halves: Lens head, (elements, diaphragm blades, and assembly), and Focusing mount. If I work on either half; it is
$65.00, plus shipping. A full overhaul is $95.00, plus shipping.
Matthew, I only have two Leica lenses; the Summar and an Elmar 9cm. Both are 1936 vintage.
Here are two examples taken with a war time Elmar 9cm/4:
B&W:
http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=5880924
Color:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=58755&ppuser=3565
It is one of my favorite lenses.
Raid
This is what Sherry Krauter sent me when I asked how much lens CLAs cost:
Erik: Good to see you here; DAG charges very similar rates. Both are top in their work.
Raid
Sorry to hear that your set was stolen, Raid.
_______________
I use a FED-3b with an Industar-61 L/D and a Jupiter-12 as my "poor man's Leica".
Works excellenty. I was even able to adjust the rangefinder myself. Would never try that with a Leica...
Matthew Allen
07-08-2007, 15:34
Thanks for the answers Raid and CVBLZ4.:)
Matthew
I have 3 kiev's (1 is from my granddad) and one Leica R4 with Summicron 50/2, it is funny that even my wife can tell that Jupiter lens are better than Leica's. Everybody is making me crazy, but photo's speak for itself. I love Kiev. I would say that Kiev is a poor man's Leica.
BTW I just paid and waiting for Mamiya 6MF, can't wait to leave my PentaconSix aside (it makes perfect photos, but it is heavy)
charjohncarter
07-08-2007, 16:12
NickTrop, I agree, I had one of these lens (f2.0 Summar) 45 years ago. Some of the photos of my girlfriend from this lens are great. Especially, wide open. I'll post one when I find them.
charjohncarter,
The Summar is one of the Leitz Great lenses. Could you post some of the old photos that you have taken of your girlfriend?
Raid
murrayatuptown
07-09-2007, 22:50
Does the postman have the twitching eyes and trembling hands?
I know they can get nervous about funky packages form exotic locales.
Anyway, question on the balsamic vinegar. Doesn't it have alot of sugar and other stuff in it? Do you rinse afterward with anything else?
Just in case anyone wants to try it, don't use it to glue lens elements!
Thanks
"...question on the balsamic vinegar. Doesn't it have alot of sugar and other stuff in it? Do you rinse afterward with anything else?"I applied the balsamic vinegar with Q-tips, 2 or 3 applications, let it dry for several minutes after. Then cleaned all surfaces with Zeiss [moisturized] Lens Cloths. It worked quite well, for me.
ChrisPlatt
07-10-2007, 15:33
Maybe Leicas are rich man's FSU cameras... ;)
Chris
"The Poor Man's Leica" is a miserable consummerist concept, used in magazine reviews to praize and ridiculize at the same time low cost cameras of good performance, taking for granted that Leica, or its high price, is the ultimative camera as the starting point.
The consummerist concept is that by owning the ultimative camera you either are a better photographer, or that by spending big bucks you are someone standing out of the "crowd".
The whole idea is not only false, but as primitive as the paleanthological age man, that believed that by wearing a bear's skin he will not only be protected from the cold, but he will aslo own some of the bear's qualities at the animal kingdom. BTW this primitive idea is the cornerstone of modern advertizing. You are not sold a trip, a car, a home, but the idea of happiness, etc.
But a bad image maker photographer will remain as such no matter what camera he uses. A weak character will remain weak, no matter how money wealthy he is.
All these don't speak at all about the good intrinsic qualities of Leica gear. Unfortunately this interesting discussion is very often too much cluttered by the mythos built in around.
Leica cameras and lenses have well served much of the best photographers, that's true. But it is no true for me. There is nothing attractive to me in fooling myself with the belief I will be as powerful as a bear if I buy the skin, be it the expensive original or a cheaper synthetic. It is of much more interest to me to be creative and charting my own way in all orders of life.
Cheers,
Ruben
PS
As a personal story, I would recall my first good camera was an OM1 given to me as a gift, around which I started to build my OM system. At those times of high ignorance for me, my menthor was a Jerusalem seller, whose veiled mantra was that either I go for Nikon AF or I am nothing. At the same time I was depending on him for info, I had to struggle within myself against his concept for several years. I still remember his face expression the time I told him I bought a new OM4ti, not from his shop but from Olympus USA...
Later on, unrelated to this story, he went to sell motorcycles.
PS 2,
Upon thinking about all these, we can get a good angle about our Bartender unique character, in his bussiness occupation.
NickTrop
07-10-2007, 18:42
Hi Ruben,
I would counter by saying it seems to me you're reading a bit much into a common expression. But, as always, a thoughtful, well-written, and provocative post.
Cheers,
Nick
The consummerist concept is that by owning the ultimative camera you either are a better photographer, or someone standing out of the "crowd".While true, I'm not so sure this statement really applies in the context of this thread. The Leicas we Po.Men are attempting to [cheaply] emulate here were maybe some folks idea of "ultimate cameras" 50, 60 and 70 years ago. Not really the type of high-end gear that one would lust after to augment his social or creative status in this age. I think this thread is more about a bunch of guys just piddling with old cameras that they’ve, just for fun, nick-named Poor.Man’s.Leica. And hey, a hundred and twenty bucks worth of FSU and Summar isn't exactly diving mindlessly into the deep end of egotistical consumerism, now is it?
But that's just my dos pesos. Now I'm off to work on the bear skin half-case for my lowly leedle Zorki… so he’ll think he's an M8.) ;)
I read/heard that the Canon P is a good substitue for a Leica.
Sorry to hi-jack the thread (lies) but what think ye of the humble Summitar in comparison to the Summar. I have numerous Summitars due to the fact that every screwmount Leica I have ever bought has had one on it. I like the sound of the Summar's softness because sharp is not my prefered look ... and since I took some shots recently with a dusty old 35mm Summaron I'm hooked on the quality it gives to images!
Methinks I will sell one of the four idle Summitars that languish on the shelf and seek out a Summar. :)
Or as Zhang might say "the Contax is the capitalist Kiev!" :D
shadowfox
07-12-2007, 09:12
I prefer to think about the Kiev as "Contax for the discerning photographer" :)
Nick, good luck on your Zorki/Summar combo, looking forward to the pics.
Ho Nick,
Just yesterday I happened to pass by a site called "camerareview.com" looking for users commentaries about the Lynx 1000. Upon not finding them I went to the Lynx 14e, where 14 reviewers rated it from from 4 to 5 out of five, averaging 4.71
Ok, but who are these reviewers ? I looked looked looked and finally found the corner where the names are.
The first review, and the most eloquent one, is yours'.
What a sad moment to find it !
Real Poor Man's Leica ?
What is poor? what is a man ? what Leica ? is all these for Real ?
What is happening to the Real man, spiritually Reach & sentimentally Proud Yashica Owner ? If he is sleeping, do him a favour.
Cheer up !
Ruben
Ho Nick... What a sad moment to find it ! Real Poor Man's Leica ? What is poor? what is a man ? what Leica ? is all these for Real ? What is happening to the Real man, spiritually Reach & sentimentally Proud Yashica Owner ? If he is sleeping, do him a favour.ruben, I always enjoy your views and posts. But please forgive me here - I really don't get this.
ruben, I always enjoy your views and posts. But please forgive me here - I really don't get this.
Thank you, CVBLZ4. By now let's be patient and wait for Nick's reaction, or no reaction. There is a chance he does understand me.
Ok, I will explain mayself a bit. For me going leica or not, is a basic issue. Not an issue of moral principles of course, as there is nothing unmoral there. But all this fiddling with the poor man combo, sounds to me as a not here and not there compromise, not advancing the good initiatives Nick took in the past with his Yashicas.
Of course Nick is a grown boy and a free man by birth. But i will be missing him more in proudly advocating the Yashicas than by proposing poor man's combos.
And of course, these are my feelings, not Nick's. Nick is no less entitled to have his own feelings and initiatives.
Cheers,
Ruben
Ooookay there, ruben. Well, I'd concur with Nick's earlier re:"... it seems to me you're reading a bit much into a common expression."Cheers.
Hello all. It is fantastic to come back here after so long and see so much enthusiasm. On the subject of the incompatibility of leica –FSU and vice versa you should read Dante’s article if you haven’t yet:
http://www.dantestella.com/technical/compat.html
I have lots of cameras most are FSU Rangefinders except for the medium format gear. I have no Leica lens but have a wide range of FSU. Including Jupiter 3-8-12 orion 15 industar 61- 26- 50. I own 4 bodies- 2 FED2s, FED 3a and Zorki 3M. The point about using the rangefinder is that it is easy to focus and have pin sharp pictures. When I started taking pictures wide open to exploit the out of focus background I had a lot of out of focus pictures. It only takes a couple of inches out and the ear is in focus instead of the cheek! No good.
So I got a Rangefinder to mount on the hot shoe and proceeded to test my cameras with all different lenses. Took measurements with the cameras placed on the tripod and used a newspaper on the wall. I was horrified. All cameras gave me different distances! I love tinkering with my cameras, but back then, almost a year ago I almost resorted to… dare I say- Go digital completely! After a lot of pictures on the screen and no prints, I finally decided I would attempt to fix them myself. It is easy to shift the bit that couples onto the lens rangefinder lip. However it is sensitive and a little too much I was out by miles wow. Pictures are sharp now, I have checked it a couple more times just to make sure it hadn’t gone out from changing lenses and all cameras are keeping calibration.
Just to finish off, my “poor man’s leica” is Zorki 3M and Fed 3a with a Jupiter 3 f 1:1.5
Main thing is to calibrate the camera to the lens you are using.
Thank you for this post. I want a Summar too!
NickTrop
07-19-2007, 09:39
Hi Ruben -
Your posts are always fun. Even when they leave me scratching my head sometimes. I'm not forsaking the three Yashicas I own (the GSN. Lynx 14, or CC). I shoot them alla time - especially the GSN. I haven't bought a camera in about a year! I couldn't stand it anymore!!! I broke down!
Actually, I get more "GAS" attacks from lenses than camera bodies. I bought the Summar because of pics like Raids. It seemed to have a unique "painterly" quality and a look I really like. I also buy cameras because they "give me something unique"...
- Lynx 14 only fixed-lens rangefinder with 1.4 lens
- CC only fixed-lens rangefinder with 35/1.8 lens
- Panasonic FZ1v2 (digital) - 12X optical zoom with 2.8 consistent throughout the zoom range, can hand-hold at equivalent of 400mm zoom in 35.
- GSN - unique low light metering capabilities, aperture priority capability
- Konica Auto S3 - outstanding 38mm lens "the best ever tested" according to Modern Photography (lives up to its billing...)
SOoooooo, just in today, sitting on my desk is my VG condition Summar and attached to it an absolutely Excellent ++ Zorki 4k. What a beautiful kit. I also found a 36mm slide on lens hood. I've loaded her up and snapped three frames (hey, I'm at work...)
Yeah to new photgraphic toys!
Spider67
07-19-2007, 10:44
OK ....Leica...means for me BW......then some situations you see in everyday life but who contain that decisive moment.......all that also can be taken with 35 RC.
That would have been my answer.
It's interesting as the words nowadays used in German for "poor man's Leica" would be "Leica für Arme" ("Die Leica des armen Mannes" or Leica des kleinen Mannes" would sound rather antiquated and out of place -"hey we are in Austria/Germany there are no poor peiple here!" would be a reaction of using that version). But "Leica für Arme" has the undertone of being a knockoff, a wannabe of a Leica and therefore also a wannabe photog.
Strange how words shape opinions. Besides "Die Leica des kleinen Mannes" (Little man's - meaning of an average level of society - also implies for most of us a god given order where everyone should know his place and the humble worker lifts his hat before his factory's bookkeeper who just nods curtly in answer, and he lifts his hat to his boss who.......
...just in today, sitting on my desk is my VG condition Summar and attached to it an absolutely Excellent ++ Zorki 4k. What a beautiful kit. I also found a 36mm slide on lens hood. I've loaded her up and snapped three frames (hey, I'm at work...) Yeah to new photgraphic toys!Congrats, Nick! Glad you're pleased. Look forward to your reviews here.
To me, a poor man's Leica is an old LTM Leica (other than the IIIg). I bought a Leica IIIf and three Leica LTM lenses last year on ebay for $400. And I am pleased with their performance to date.
Eric
NickTrop
07-23-2007, 18:45
First impressions:
Kit assembled - kit consists of:
1. Zorki 4K
2. Leitz Summar
3. A cheap 36A clip-on circular lens hood (that seems to do the job just fine, thankfully!
Camera -
The Zorki 4K sample I have is quite nice. The shutter speed number aren't faded as I feared. It's heavy with a nice feel and a bright rangefinder, though not as contrasty as I'm used to, it's still very usable. I do NOT like the way the camera functions after rewinding film. The shutter acted erratically after I rewound the first roll. I think I will forgo the last frame so I don't get that stuck-half-way shutter release. However, I shot the shutter a few times w/o film and it seemed to correct itself... weird.
But all together not a bad user.
The Lens
I think I love this lens - straight up. I think I got a very nice sample, virtually free of scratches and no haze that I can detect but it does have what appears to be a bubble or somthing(?) at the very very edge of the right side the lens that doesn't effect anything - whew!
I totally agree with this assessment of the lens by Alfred Bruell:
2/50 Summar:
It shows it's best results between f 3.2 and 6.3. In this range, it is comparably sharp, like my Kodak Retina Ia 3.5/50 mm Xenar from the 50ies. In this range, it is a "high contrast lens", but different than we use the phrase today. Here it means, that the lens shows clear colors but hardly shadow details. To give an example: When you look at a tree at dawn or sunset, you clearly see the colors of the bright parts, but the shadows are gone and almost black. That's what the lens does, even in bright daylight. Additionally, the unsharp areas are more unsharp than in a "usual" 50 mm, almost like from the 2/90 mm M Summicron. Both effects (suppression of shadow details and "increased" unsharpness) result in the most impressive 3D or pictoral effect I've ever seen from a 50 mm, incl Noctilux. The highlights are over-pronounced, which gives an additional impression of light in your pictures (like in impressionism). At f 2.0 the corners tend to be dark and the colors are almost gone. It is a warm to neutral lens.
http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/ll.htm
Even this is an old lens, and not the upper echelon of the Leicas... I kinda "get it" with the Leica mystique. This lens renders images like no other lens I own. I really blurs the OOF areas beautifully and seemingly at smaller apertures than other lenses I own. The highlights glow, and as stated it's hard to get shadow detail sometimes but no other lens I have has a 3D "pop" to match this one. My sample is reasonably sharp - sharper than I expected and certainly acceptable. Everything I shot was with a lens hood and there were no issues with flare at all.
This lens has a very unique and pleasing signature and is a different animal altogether from any other 50 I have used.
I just got my first roll back and am going on vaction tomorrow. I think I'll just bring my "Poor Man's Leica" set-up, along with my recently restored Iskra for MF. I will scan some pics and post them when I get back in a week.
I dont know if you know this or not... but The erratic shutter you are getting is because most likely you have changed the shutter speeds before winding/cocking the shutter.
You should always wind the film crank before you ever try to change the shutter speeds. You can do serious damage to the shutter mechanism (and slow speed mechanism).
Even now I occasionally end up changing shutter speed by mistake before i wind the shutter but so far ive been ok...
but you have to be very careful.
Nick, is your Summar adjusted for the FSU lens mount to film plane distance? According to Dante Stella that might be a problem when close focusing. Regards.
I dont know if you know this or not... but The erratic shutter you are getting is because most likely you have changed the shutter speeds before winding/cocking the shutter.
You should always wind the film crank before you ever try to change the shutter speeds. You can do serious damage to the shutter mechanism (and slow speed mechanism).
why is that? what goes on inside the camera that causes this erratic phenomenon?
Sounds good Nick. I can't believe you're going to leave us hanging on the edge for a week. Where are you going for vacation; we can meet you there. ;)
Have a good time, enjoy the fam and gear, be safe. :)
NickTrop
07-24-2007, 06:37
I dont know if you know this or not... but The erratic shutter you are getting is because most likely you have changed the shutter speeds before winding/cocking the shutter.
You should always wind the film crank before you ever try to change the shutter speeds. You can do serious damage to the shutter mechanism (and slow speed mechanism).
Even now I occasionally end up changing shutter speed by mistake before i wind the shutter but so far ive been ok...
but you have to be very careful.
Thanks. I am acutely aware of this and was absolutely certain I did not. In fact, I check every time the shutter was cocked to make absolutely sure. The issue I encountered is when I reached the end of the roll and the crank "stuck" mid-way as it often does. The camera isn't broken, but - like I said, I think I'll forgo the last frame for the sake of the camera.
NickTrop
07-24-2007, 06:38
Thanks CLVLZ4 : )
NickTrop
07-24-2007, 06:39
Nick, is your Summar adjusted for the FSU lens mount to film plane distance? According to Dante Stella that might be a problem when close focusing. Regards.
Seem so be fine. Pics in focus and sharp to my eyes. Thanks for the tip, though.
foto_fool
07-24-2007, 06:54
Nick - looking forward to some pictures with the Summar. If FedEx is good to me today I may have some shots to post from the Summar on a IIIf - at $325 (2 seperate eBay deals) not as inexpensive as your rig, but still pretty cheap in the grand scheme. With the Summar starting to get all this love the prices are going to go up. Thanks Raid for giving me the bug to get one some time back.
Keith - In my experience the Summar is softer and more prone to flare than the Summarit. For me the knock on the Summarit is its size - it completely overbalances the IIIf, which handles perfectly with the Summar, and OK with the Nikkor SC or collapsible Summicron. I'm probably selling the LTM Summarit.
My most recent inexpensive kit is a Konica III - hoping to see the first pics from it today as well. It is built like a tank and sports a 48mm/f2 Hexanon in a leaf shutter so quiet sometimes I'm not sure it fired.
- John
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