View Full Version : M8 or M7
intinsifi
06-25-2007, 16:16
Hey, I am looking to buy a Leica. Currently, I have a Nikon D200. I don't know whether to buy a M8 or M7. I've never really shot film before because I am young. I already have a digital camera, and it would be nice to have a film camera. I am worried that if I get the M7, it will be a hassle to get negatives developed. I am also worried that it will be hard to find good film in the coming years. I don't know much about the different types of film. I've only shot one roll of film, and it was with a Minox GL. I liked the look of film a lot so I am sorta leaning towards the M7. I like the M8 because it would be convient to get the images onto a computer, and I am also used to shooting digital. I am used to being able to see my pictures right away and being able to delete. I feel that getting a film camera would make me a better photographer because I would have to be more careful about what I choose to shoot. My other worry about the M8 is its value. Digital devices get outdated quickly, and I feel that I would be somewhat upset when Leica relased an M9. I don't know what to do, and I would really appreciate some advice.
This is tricky, I would say go with the M8 now, then get a used M6 in the future, you'll have the best of both worlds. In my opnion, nothing compares with shooting a film M, but the M8 just made life so much easier for me.
And what's with all these kids buying M8's!
Hah:p
Joop van Heijgen
06-25-2007, 16:45
The choice has to be: the Nikon D200 camera and a Leica M 6.
For shooting digital you have already the Nikon.
As you said: digital devices get outdated quickly. Also the M8 centainly!
The M6 Leica (the famous Leica M 4 with meter) is the standard film camera for negatives and slides!
I advice you to buy this camera. A pleasure to photograph with it. It is one of the best cameras ever made!
I still work with this camera since 1984!
You can get plenty enough films as long as people want to make photos with film!
intinsifi
06-25-2007, 17:09
I thought about getting a used M6, but I am going to buy new so that means M7 for me. I like the M8, but I think the images would be too similar to my D200's images. Is it going to be hard to find film or will it be around for a while? Is it hard to setup your own darkroom? I know my school has one, but I don't know if I can access it or not. I don't shoot a lot. I mostly shoot on weekends, so the cost of film doesn't seem to be too much of an issue.
i think i can help here.
I started with film but after I got my first job, I got a digital camera ( a crappy point and shoot ). Liked it so much then I bought one of the best digital cameras available ( and still of the best I've ever shoot with ) : Fuji S2 PRO.
I then changed frequently. Fuji S2 PRO, Nikon D100, Nikon D1X, Canon 1Ds, Nikon D2x.
Then I changed to a Leica M7 which was stolen. Now I bought a Leica MP to replace it.
I loved my M7 and I recommend it over a MP, for someone who never shoot film, its easier to get good results with it. MP is rather different, I got used to it quickly, and now Im completely in love with it but I wouldn't recommend it for someone who never shoot film.
I love film, I dont love its processing time and hassle. Why its better ? Better quality ? Better this and that ? No.
For me its just because its more disciplined. You dont have 239084230984 memory cards. You just have half of rolls of film. And you have to make them count. Forces you not to shoot more carefully and think. Thats for me a big plus.
With digital its easy, you just shoot away and then delete. This is bad. Very bad.
You loose focus, you dont compose carefully , you dont look OUTSIDE the picture to see if there is anything interesting. You just shoot.
Film vs Digital is kinda like Sniper vs Machine gun.
You, in theory could do the same if you limit yourself to 2 or 3 memory cards, but its not the same. You still have a good FPS and chimping.
With a MP you have the felling that the thing will last forever and that everything its manual : you selected the focus, the exposure, you pushed the button. The photo is all yours, you made it from top to bottom, its your magic, not some fancy CCD or CMOS with an elaborate CPU. Takes time to master though, im still in the very learning phase but my processing lab appreciates that very much.
Plus correcting silly color shifts from velvia scans in Photoshop means that you still have some use for your digital software :)
I have to disagree : D200 and the M6 doesn't seem a good idea. You will quickly hate the M6 : you will not chimp, you wont learn the beast. I traded my Nikon D2x for a M7. Its the only way. You can later one come back to digital, but you have to force yourself to use the leica, you have digital habits. Bad ones I have to say .)
Use it, force yourself and you will reap the rewards : the first rolls will be frustrating, you will try to cope with the meter, the adjustments, the fact you dont have a LCD to check , should you or shouldn't bracket that shot and just get familiar with the camera and films. Its a bit of a pain but once you find a film that give you the colors you like ( try slide film ) or even just plain black & white and once you are familiar with the camera you will enjoy it immensely.
Leica M6 or M7 ? well one problem that M6's suffered was the viewfinder was prone to flare.. a good M6 with a M7 upgraded viewfinder will be close a M7, so shop around and see.
If you sell your D200 and lens you can get a M6 and 35 ASPH f2 for example. Fantastic lens but if you love bokeh ( i do ) , go for a 50mm 1.4 summilux ( pre asph ) , just have bokeh that makes you scream. And trust me, I had nikon and canon finest : L, AFS, etc .
One thing : Leica is a big world and it will take a while to get into. Leica items are VERY costly. Lens, cameras.
My final advice is : take a step back. Dont rush to buy. Read. Get all the info you can about the cameras. I advise you a M6/7 or even a MP, all depends on what you want. Lens ? Too many to list. Lurk and read forums, buy a couple of books. Then buy. Just rest assured that leica items are so costly in second hand because they hold they value extremely well. I started with the 35 ASPH F2 but this lens wasnt really for me, I wanted something much more creamy and with a smoother bokeh. Leica stuff depreciate much slower but still they cost humongus amount of money. So again, take that step back and see what you want. If you go to a shop, they might even let you play with the cameras / lens. For example, I wanted a 75 1.4 badly and after playing with one, isnt the lens for me. Too big and heavy ( in leica standards, lens are much smaller than "normal" 35mm ) . Although its a gem in picture department.
Good luck
Here's what you do:
Get rid of the D200.
Purchase a M8 w./ Lens
When you have enough funds, look for a decent M6. If you have some serious cash, look into gettting a MP. You can share the lens between the M8/MP/M6. Now you have the best of both worlds!
It's true that technology and always improving and getting cheaper, but I find the M8 is more then enough for my simple style of photography.
Don't worry about film going obsolete. It will be around for a long time to come with the more 'artistic' or 'traditional' crowd.
John Camp
06-25-2007, 17:23
Basically, you don't set up a darkroom. You can develop B&W film to a level of exquisite goodness with about $100 worth of gear and chemicals, and you can do it in your bathroom at night, and do it better than it'll get done at most pro labs. Color film you drop in the mail and get done professionally (Look up Dwayne's). Then, you scan the negs and do the rest of the work digitally.
If I were just starting out, I sure as hell wouldn't spend as much money as you'd have to spend on an M8 outfit. I've got an M8 and it's a great camera, but it's a camera for people who have developed a certain style of shooting and want to push that to the extreme. Right now, getting new equipment, a decent M8 outfit starting from scratch could cost you $20,000, and you wouldn't have either macro or tele capability. I would say if you're just starting, stick with a DSLR until you completely understand what kind of shooting you're committed to; and that's a lot easier to do when you can work and understand a whole range of lenses.
JC
mervynyan
06-25-2007, 17:24
I think M7 is a better fit for you.
MP is great but I am afraid you will be impatient about manual dial control, speed->aperture->composition 3 workflows have to be performed. M7 at least save you the trouble of speed dial change and much faster.
Joop van Heijgen
06-25-2007, 17:25
I thought about getting a used M6, but I am going to buy new so that means M7 for me. I like the M8, but I think the images would be too similar to my D200's images. Is it going to be hard to find film or will it be around for a while? Is it hard to setup your own darkroom? I know my school has one, but I don't know if I can access it or not. I don't shoot a lot. I mostly shoot on weekends, so the cost of film doesn't seem to be too much of an issue.
The M7 is an automatic camera. The working depends on batteries!
The M 6 is completely mechanical and need in fact no battery, except for the meter!
To find film is no problem! In the USA and in Europe you can find enough film of every kind!
To find and to make your own darkroom is at the moment cheaper than ever!
When you don't shoot to much, than is it an option to bring your negatives to a 'prof. lab'.
Your slides have you always to develop with a lab.
You can also scan your slides and negatives!
With a digital and 'analog' camera you have in fact many opportunities!
I say go for film, although it seems a little hipocritical as I am buying a dslr soon.
Film makes you take your time, and it will help you learn. Your digital shots will also improve as well. I don't have a Leica, nor tried any of them, but I think that you would really benefit from shooting film.
Film isn't dead yet, and it isn't going anywhere for a while. As for using the school's darkroom, I did it this year at my school. I wasn't taking a photo class, but I was freindly and asked the photo teacher nicely, and she was happy to let me use it. I had to pay for paper, but that isn't unreasonable at all.
intinsifi
06-25-2007, 18:45
I will probably get an M7. I don't know what an MP is so I will have to look into it. I am not selling my D200 though. I have a 17-55 and 70-200 for my Nikon. I am only looking to get a 50mm Summilux for my Leica. I mostly do street shooting, and I find that my Nikon is too big for it. I can't decide whether to get a 50mm or 35mm for the Leica. Any advice on that?
Great post proenca! :) intinsifi I use M7s and I think it would be a very suitable cam for you. You've got aperture priority automatic exposure so you don't have to worry about the shutter speed for a bit, then you can also go fully manual when the fancy strikes you. It's a great camera I use two of them 0.72 mag & 0.85 mag and I started off with an M6TTL but much prefer the M7. Give it serious consideration. You live in Boston go to EP Levine's in the dock area and talk to Mike Bard and try out an M7. He will cut you a deal.
Oh I see you already decided. Too much going on here... I would say start with a 50 and use it for a while. Maybe a better transition focal length from a digi rig.
intinsifi
06-25-2007, 19:05
I just read about the MP, and I have changed my mind now. I'd rather get the MP over the M7. I like both cameras, but I dont need aperture priority. I use aperture priority way too much on my D200, and I feel disconnected form my pictures. There aren't that many shutter speed settings on the camera; therefore, it can't be that hard to manually select them. I also like the look of the MP better. It is more discrete. Does anyone have any advice about the MP?
I've used both AP and fully manual cameas and in the heat of the moment or very variable lighting conditions it can be great to have AE. Allows you to focus on the important things; light source and your position relative to it, composition, and DOF. At other times fully manual is perfect. The M7 gives you both.
Coming form digital (D1x, 17-55, 70-200 VR) but having shot film for almost 20 years with Nikon MF lenses and F3HP / FM, I would suggest "the tough way" ... Get yourself a meterless (!!) M4-P and two lenses like 2.8 28mm Elmarit and 50 mm Summilux pre-asph. Together with a small hand-held meter you can learn shooting film from the scratch and don't have to spent that much money on the M body. After some time - and if you really think that a M rangefinder is the way to go for you - sell the D200 with the Nikon lenses and then decide which second M body to buy, either a film MP, M7 or a digital M8 (if you don't like the idea of film).
I sold my D1x together with the zoom lenses because the 70-200 VR did never make it for me and with the Leicas and Leica glass I get better results compared to the D1x / 17-55 combination.
- Gabor
I wouldn't sell the D200. That camera is just way too good to let go. Of course, over here on RFF we're all RF biased, but in reality selling it is not really sensible. It's not sensible photography wise (macro? zoom? tele?).. and it's not sensible as the money it raises will be not near what you paid for it..
Getting used to manual exposure setting isn't a problem IMO, an M6 is so different from a D200 that you'll have to adjust to another way of working altogether. The exposure thing is just one of them.
thank you for all the kudos on my post :)
but I again emphasize two things : selling the D200 and get a Leica, but most important, take a step back and read.
For example, you did not know what a MP was. If you rushed to buy the M7, you will be lusting for a MP. You could change , but it would take you a few hundreds ( dollars, euros,pounds ), so its better to do it right at first time or try to, rather than cutting corners and do it later at a much very costly option.
I learned this with digital. I was happy with my S2 until I slapped a 17-35 2.8 AFS on it, loaned from a friend. ( this was a few good years ago, 17-55 wasn't even on plans ) It opened my eyes - it seemed a new camera. So instead of buying junk or inferior grade lens to TRY to archive what I wanted , I tried to buy what I really wanted , within limits of course. The 500 F4 L from canon was always a wet dream than a necessity, etc.
So dont rush to buy because you have to. Again, step back ( its the most difficult part ) and think. Take a few shoots more with the D200, see what focal lengths you use the most.
You like the MP ? Fine, use the D200 for a couple of weeks ONLY in manual mode. Did you like it ? No ? Back to the M7/6, they have aperture priority.
For almost a decade, I used aperture priority on my cameras and was a slave of it. Was tough to get out, but now its pure joy : I setup the speed in my brain before I raise the camera and then point and make adjustments. Its just brings a smile when I see that I choose, without a meter, a correct exposure. It was the better cpu of all time : my brain
Again, I think going over a D200 for a MP is a giant step. Can be done, but it requires tough self discipline.
I see that your lens lineup is a 17-55 and 70-200 , both very fine lens in the Nikon camp ( had them both ) but one things "worries" me : they are long.
Ie, 17 * 1.5 = roughly 26mm. Thats close to 28mm , the widest supported in the viewfinder for a Leica M ( wider can be user with optional viewfinders )
Than you have that 70-200, guessing that you use from 120-to-170mm , theres no equivalent in Leica land ( M that is ) for that focal lenght.
Are you sure will be happy with one lens that has no zoom ? 50mm aint a bit shorter ? 75 1.4 is tough to find used and there goes the small camera and lens thingy. 90's are big and fat as well.
My last advice ? Read and read. Use your D200 manually for a couple of weeks and get a cheap 50mm 1.8 Nikkor if you dont have one yourself : precious little gem. Avoid the zooms. Remember, you will have a new zooming option : your feet.
It will force you to interact with the picture, you have to get up and close to take a picture. No more tele with zooms. Go there, ask, can I take a picture or simple smile and take away. Dont chimp. Turn off AF. Manual focus.
If you did not like it, avoid the MP, repeat for next two weeks in aperture mode, but still with the 50mm, AF off and manual focusing. Liked it ? Go to a store say that you will buy a M6 or M7 but would like to take one off for a spin, even just one afternoon. Leave your D200 and VR lens as guarantee and take a M6 for an afternoon. That's what I did when I bought my M7.
Still did not like it ? Stick with digital. No pun intended. RF is a specialized camera , not a "all-types-possible" camera, like a DSLR. Maybe its not for you. Maybe it is.
Just dont jump on it because its a trend or fashion or just curiosity. For that you have much cheaper RF available.
And one last thing : if you do buy a Leica, my last ( ok ok, this time is the last ) advice is to get ONE lens only for the next 6-7 months. Yes, tempting will be to get a couple of lens to get a lineup. But one lens means that you will be more into getting a picture rather than changing lens, wishing that you had another focal length, if the 28 or the 35 are better here, etc. It simplifies things.
All the best in your quest,
Joe Mondello
06-26-2007, 05:56
I have a D200 -- then I got an Epson R-D1 (which led to an M8).
I suggest it as an alternative. I have little interest in going back to shooting film whether it be with a Leica, a Bessa or my Nikon F3 or my Nikon N8008 (both of which are just sitting on the shelf). Although I do plan to run a few rolls though my old Rolleiflex TLR -- one of these days!
A used R-D1 would be a great camera for you. Get a 35 (eff 52) for it. You'll definitely find it slows you down but with the flip screen you can decide whether or not to chimp or ignore it.
That's my take FWIW.
BTW, I still have and use my D200 (I have the same lenses, + others, as you do).
My last advice ? Read and read. Use your D200 manually for a couple of weeks and get a cheap 50mm 1.8 Nikkor if you dont have one yourself : precious little gem. Avoid the zooms. Remember, you will have a new zooming option : your feet.
It will force you to interact with the picture, you have to get up and close to take a picture. No more tele with zooms. Go there, ask, can I take a picture or simple smile and take away. Dont chimp. Turn off AF. Manual focus.
If you did not like it, avoid the MP, repeat for next two weeks in aperture mode, but still with the 50mm, AF off and manual focusing. Liked it ?
That's a bit like pushing the car around for a week to see whether you like cycling.. :eek:
The DSLR is so different from an M, that it doesn't tell anything about the strengths of an RF. What's worse, the 50/1.8 AF isn't exactly representative of any RF 50mm. The image quality at f5.6 is less than any of the Nikon f2.8 zooms wide open, the manual focus feel isn't there, it doesn't have a DOF scale, and the field of view on a DSLR corresponds to a 75..
Also the M8 centainly!
Where did you find that opinion? As it is the general consensus is that an M9 is a considerable number of years away, as is a ZI DRF. A case in point is the Digilux2, which is arguably totally outdated, but there is no successor and it commands premium prices on e-bay, totally against the general "digital" trend.
I can't advise here, because I don't own an M8, but all I can say is that I wish I'd had the contemporary equivalent of $3500-4800 to spend when I was 18 and that a camera purchase was the most pressing thing on my mind. At that time I was scrounging to buy a new carburetor for my 20 yr old car so I could get to one of my 3 jobs so I could come up with next semester's tuition for college, and wondering when Uncle Sam would be sending me a ticket to Saigon :(
Why buy new?
Get a used M6 and a lens for starters, try it for a couple of weeks/months and then sell it. If you liked the way of shooting, get an M7/MP/M8, if you didn't like it you haven't lost too much money.
A brand new M7/MP is $3500, a 2nd hand M6 $1200. Don't worry about warranty, the chance you'll ever use it is very small. A second hand M7/MP is approximately $1800-2200 so if you don't like RF, you lose $1300-1700 selling it compared to a M6. I know lots of funny things you can do for $1700...
jamiewakeham
06-26-2007, 10:09
I'd be scared about spending this sort of money on a camera system I'd never tried before! People generally start off by trying a $50 Canonet or similar... if you decide you don't like the RF way (irrespective of how you record the image) you're going to take a huge depreciation hit.
You obviously want something now to play with. No problem - I get like that. I'd suggest going to the local leica dealer and picking up an M2 or an M3 with an older 35mm or 50mm 'cron - whatever they have in stock - and a cheap handheld incident light meter. Spend some time with these. Marvel at how different to a DSLR they are.
Then, you can choose to get an MP/M7/M8. You can sell the M2 or M3 for what you paid for it, near enough, and the lens will be useful.
Meanwhile go read everything Stephen has to say at www.Cameraquest.com...
Jamie
shadowfox
06-26-2007, 11:02
I can't advise here, because I don't own an M8, but all I can say is that I wish I'd had the contemporary equivalent of $3500-4800 to spend when I was 18 and that a camera purchase was the most pressing thing on my mind. At that time I was scrounging to buy a new carburetor for my 20 yr old car so I could get to one of my 3 jobs so I could come up with next semester's tuition for college, and wondering when Uncle Sam would be sending me a ticket to Saigon :(
Ben, THANK YOU for bringing us back to earth... (well, the earth that *I* knew, at least :) ). All this talk about D200 this, M8 that, MP there, is spinning me out of orbit.
I'm not too old yet, but I am old enough to remember the question being "A utilitarian beat up truck" or "A more comfortable cheap used car" when I was in my 20-ies on my first "real" job.
Guys, I'm not ragging on you being young and can afford an M8, I just hope for your sakes that you have earned at least some major portion of the fund going into the camera, and I'll tell you why... because it will make the camera, whichever you chose, *that* more meaningful and fulfilling.
As for the choice, M3 or MP, accept no substituition :D
I paid for my M8, my M4P and all my glass, I also paid for my Hassy System and my Fuji S3 and it's glass.
I grow up in spoiled america but the camera gear is all bought with my hard earned green.
I took the year off and worked my tail off to pay for what I wanted, I would except no compromise, if I wanted it, I worked for it, and bought it.
Joop van Heijgen
06-26-2007, 11:50
Where did you find that opinion? As it is the general consensus is that an M9 is a considerable number of years away, as is a ZI DRF. A case in point is the Digilux2, which is arguably totally outdated, but there is no successor and it commands premium prices on e-bay, totally against the general "digital" trend.
Within 3 or 4 years the M8 is an 'oldfashioned' camera!
Digital techniques are developing faster than you can buy a camera!:confused:
BillBingham2
06-26-2007, 12:42
I saved money from jobs and birthday gifts to afford a Nikkormat FTn and two Nikkors. From where I lived then, that was like $5K is for hardworking (or well off) kids today. I can find no fault in his wanting an M8 or M7, why not?
The comments towards the M7 or MP are very valid, for the most part. I think the discipline that has been spoken of is just as valid on an M8 as it is on my M6. It’s how you use the tool that counts. Digital has advantages in that you can take the camera home, develop the RAW images on your computer and never worry about what is being flushed down the drain. Or if you even have access to a darkroom. I’ve seen tons of film photographers over the years with very fast motor drives trying to get that moment in time that is the photograph. While the M motor is not as fast, you can do the same thing there. If you can handle the initial outlay, go with the M8 or an Epson RD-1. Enforce the discipline yourself, but have the extra tools at your disposal.
You will not do yourself wrong by going with an MP, M7 or even an M6, but digital is a lot easier and in the end, costs less. Do not get me wrong, I have rapidwinders for both Ms and a motor for each of my F2s. There are times when I am shooting stuff that happens too fast and I do not know the flow well enough, it’s just handy. But for 99% of my street shooting, no winders, just me and my camera.
If you really want to try street shooting at its bare minimum, pick up a black Bessa L and put a black CV 25/4 with a finder on it. Small, no rangefinder, built in meter with LEDs on the top of the camera, your camera is almost invisible to people. It is a fun combination that I love. I use it as my walking around camera. When I am not carrying my M6, a Bessa L is at my side.
Another option is to look at a Bessa, the new R4A is a great street camera. Not built as well as a Leica, but costs a lot less (you can buy about six of them for the price of a M8). They are not Leicas, something about Leicas that you can not put into words.
Read http://www.cameraquest.com/classics.htm for some great info.
Lens wise, while Leica glass is wonderful, not sure it’s worth the cost unless you are selling big enlargements of your pictures. If you go M8 or RD-1, go with a CV 28/1.9 and then a fast 50mm. I am not a 50mm person, so I’m not sure which one. If you go R4A, get a ZI 25/2.8 (Tony at Popflash has great prices on them). As a second lens, look for a used black Nikkor 85/2 (black is lighter and newer) in LTM and get an adapter or get a new Leica 75/2. If you go M7 or M6, the CV 28/1.9 is a great first lens and then either the 85 or the 75. The 75/2 is much smaller than the f1.4 version and costs less.
In general CV lenses are a great place to start. Very sharp and many of the new ones are built to a much better standard. Again, not a Leica lens, but close. There are dozens of great LTM lenses from yesteryear that you can use (e.g. Nikkor 105/2.5, the mother of all short telephotos) on just about any Leica body.
Read all you can here, search through old threads in the forum lists, ask questions (like you have) and find a store to go touch and feel the cameras. I do not know any in Boston, but I’m sure this is still a good one or two out there.
Think before you shoot, look for the best angle to tell the story and go there. Think sniper not machine gun, one or two pictures of a scene max. Not everything that looks interesting is, with work you can make it an interesting picture. Use your light meter as a recommendation not the law, not everything is an 18% gray card think of what and how you are metering. The best way to become a great photographer is practice.
B2 (;->
intinsifi
06-26-2007, 13:12
Hey, thanks for all the adivce everyone. I am not in a hurry to buy, so don't worry about that part. I've played with an M6 and and M7 before. I know that I like rangefinders, and I know that I hate using my D200. I pull great pics from the D200, but even on manual I don't feel like I am doing anything. There are no depth of field markings on the lenses that I own, so I always use autofocus. There is no reason to use it on manual, because I usually shoot wide open. I use AE a lot, and the meter is good so there is no reason to set the shutter on the D200. I want a camera that I am forced to set the shutter. The only thing I am afraid of is missing certain moments. Is it hard to set the shutter on an MP to get the correct exposure? I know in digital, it is easy to overexpose or underexpose. I heard that you don't have to worry about it as much as you have to on digital cameras?
The only reason I would buy the M7 is because of the AE. My main priority is to find out whether or not I can shoot efficeintly without it.
BillBingham2
06-26-2007, 13:32
Rent an M6 for two weeks. Rent a 50mm lens with it. Perhaps even a 35 or a 28 if you can. Run some film through it and see what you think.
I can let you barrow two lenses for that time if you would like. A 35mm and a 105mm, both Komrua, a bit slow, it may give a bit more experience.
B2 (;->
intinsifi
06-26-2007, 14:52
Rent an M6 for two weeks. Rent a 50mm lens with it. Perhaps even a 35 or a 28 if you can. Run some film through it and see what you think.
I can let you barrow two lenses for that time if you would like. A 35mm and a 105mm, both Komrua, a bit slow, it may give a bit more experience.
B2 (;->
Renting can be expensive. I've rented some primes for my Nikon, and I can't imagine renting a whole camera.
Or, you could get a used M6 and a used RD1 and make everyone happy.
Use the leftover money to stock up on a bunch of CV lens and you're dialed.
intinsifi
06-26-2007, 16:50
Or, you could get a used M6 and a used RD1 and make everyone happy.
Use the leftover money to stock up on a bunch of CV lens and you're dialed.
Nah, I'm going to buy new regardless. Its just between the M7 and the MP. I am going to get a 50mm Summilux for whatever body I get. I don't need a telephoto for street shooting because I like the thrill of being close to the subject. The only other lens I would consider getting is a 35mm. I would either get the 35 or the 50 now, and then I would get the other later. I want the MP or an M7 as a collectors item also.
I like to buy new for things that I really care about; therefore, buying new is a must in this situation.
I don't agree with you in this position, but it's your money and your call.
Hah, and I thought I spent a lot of money, I want your job.
Well ... If you are really into buying a new RF camera and want to go the "all-manual-way" then the only choice is a MP or a M6TTL if you can still find one. About "collectors item" ... when you are going to do street photography and want to be close to the subject you will end up with a camera that has scratches and maybe some dents on it after some time so forget about "collectors-item".
A Leica is either good as a tool but then it is not a collectors item or for fondling and keeping it wrapped in a cabinet but then better never use it...
Gabor
Mshooter
06-26-2007, 21:41
I think you will still have enough money to buy a Nikon 5000ED since you're deciding on an M7, "if ever".
M8 is a good camera if you will shoot professionaly like wedding, b-day's and stuffs. I will always recomed it.
But if you want to be artistic and be creative utilizing varried film signitures and grain characteristics from colored to gray-scale B&W, my vote is for the M7.
Film developing is easier than thought, you don't even need a darkroom for develop and scan process.
Check this out, how a digital shooter with little film experience ventured film and learned to develop so quickly.
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/film-forum/18838-just-joined-film-club.html
Keep the D200 it's a good camera and you will need it for anything that require quick result.
Best,
-Ron
ended up with an M7+summicron 35+Coolsacan V and am having a blast. my D2H is now resting in the closet.
I did try an M6 for some time, basically the same camera as the MP, and missed a lot of shots. in street photography and candid moments, by the time I set the riht exposure and focused the moment was gone. some people can get real fast at it, but it didn't work for me. if you're shooting b&w or C41, you can rely on the film latitude but I like slides (Fuji Astia, Velvia and Provia) and as such have to nail the exposure. anyway, you can always go manual with the M7, just take it out of Auto. mine was used but If I had the budget for a new one I'd get an a'Lacarte with engravings... drools.
I have to say that I do love the MPs look though, maybe someday I'll get one..:rolleyes:
here's some of my pictures with the M7 http://www.flickr.com/photos/8915401@N05/sets/72157601173944235/
usccharles
08-06-2007, 20:45
Nah, I'm going to buy new regardless. Its just between the M7 and the MP. I am going to get a 50mm Summilux for whatever body I get. I don't need a telephoto for street shooting because I like the thrill of being close to the subject. The only other lens I would consider getting is a 35mm. I would either get the 35 or the 50 now, and then I would get the other later. I want the MP or an M7 as a collectors item also.
I like to buy new for things that I really care about; therefore, buying new is a must in this situation.
you should find a good camera shop that carries used leica gear. i love new things too but leica gear is so durable, its pretty ridiculous to buy new stuff when there are plenty of the same items, used, for alot less. and especially with lenses. my new 50 lux is great but i'm still trying to break it in and the focus ring is still so dang tight! my 35 summilux on the other hand, bought used, turns smooth like a babies butt.
new stuff is good, but i would rather spend the extra cash to buy more gear if i can find good used equipment. there are also a ton of mint condition used M7/MP and even M6s out there. save the money and buy another lens, a used one perhaps?
find a good reliable used dealer who stands by their products and your set
just my 2 cents :)
intinsifi
08-06-2007, 23:42
thanks for rhe input everyone. I got my M7 two weeks ago and I carry it with me everywhere. Ive only shot 4 rolls so far, but I think these 4 rolls are some of the best pictures rhat i have ever taken. I will share them with you guys once I get my film scanner.
Within 3 or 4 years the M8 is an 'oldfashioned' camera!
Digital techniques are developing faster than you can buy a camera!:confused:
Well, that is nothing new... Leica M cameras have been oldfashioned since 1972. In the meantime we'll have to wait and see what the market has to offer in digital rangefinders by then. Not much, I wager. Meanwhile the M8 is an excellent camera and I suspect the quality of the prints turned out will be the same then as it is now - so it would only worry me if I were a used camera trader.
thanks for rhe input everyone. I got my M7 two weeks ago and I carry it with me everywhere. Ive only shot 4 rolls so far, but I think these 4 rolls are some of the best pictures rhat i have ever taken. I will share them with you guys once I get my film scanner.
nice. congrats on your new camera.
intinsifi
08-07-2007, 13:22
nice. congrats on your new camera.
Thanks. I am enjoying it a lot. I've had it on me everyday, and it is quite possibly one of the best things I have ever purchased.
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.