View Full Version : Growing Popularity of RFF
CameraQuest
06-21-2007, 09:51
In January 2007 RFF had just under 9800 registered members. Today we have 13,850, an increase of about 40% in six months. In January during the day, there were usually about 300 people visiting RFF (though of course this varied throughout the day). Lately 400 people on RFF has not been unusual. This morning at 7:19 AM Pacific Time, RFF had 513 people online. Amazingly this growth was accomplished with an advertising budget of zero.
It seems our little rangefinder community is growing, even thriving, in this digital SLR and Point N Shoot world. I would like to extend a big thanks to everyone, and ask you all,
How we can make RFF even better?
Stephen
How we can make RFF even better?
Stephen
Free Bessas? :)
That's cool. Yay for non-conformity!
dazedgonebye
06-21-2007, 09:58
Word of mouth...does it every time.
Jamie123
06-21-2007, 10:01
Word of mouth...does it every time.
that or a digital Leica M :)
NIKON KIU
06-21-2007, 10:03
Look at it now:
Currently active photographers: 545 (115 members and 430 guests)
Yesterday we averaged around 450 to 500!!, I saw 576 people on the site two days ago when I had nothing to do at work :)
Lots of guests!
Kiu
One negative: I think the prices for rfs on evilbay are rising.
I fact I beleive film camera prices in general are on the rise on the bay. Long live film?
BillBingham2
06-21-2007, 10:48
While we are still a niche, we are becoming a bigger and bigger niche. I would love to do some research as to why people are coming back to film and rangefinders. Maybe something in SurveyMonkey for my marketing class next fall?
I have to admit I do like the free flow of opinions and ideas that I see here. The format of the forum seems to have expanded nicely (good job Stephen & co.). It lends itself to targeted updates when you compare it to lists.
One of the other things is that you see sponsors posting comments and answers from time to time too (e.g. Tony and Tom A). To me, that is something that sets this place apart for just about anywhere else. The folks supporting us love this stuff almost as much as we do. They are not just pushing stuff because this is another market for their stuff. I saw a thread the other day where someone was getting on Tony for not lowering his price, several folks pointed out that what Tony does standing behind his product is well worth the $10 delta. I think Tony checked into things and ended up lowering his price (not sure how much).
We had some projects for folks in need in different areas and I hope we will have more. It’s a good circle we have here, wish I had an idea to make it better, but I don’t.
B2 (;->
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I'm with Frank.
It ain't broke.
Finally bring back random gallery pics. I loved it.
Maybe there's a backlash against the plastic electronic battery dee-pendant digital age .. has anyone checked the generations that are logging on - are they pre 30s or ancient monuments ?
Me , I stumbled on rangefinders as a dee-ranged finder , but even so , my other cameras are old Minoltas rather than digi watsits .
And the cult or the Cold War still looms for me - my father was Assistant Secretary of State for the Air Ministry , and a red tie for a 5 year old was just not done !?
However I am quite prepared to set aside my prejudices against digital for the sake of an M8 !!! .. though I am told it is broke and ...
We need more chicks......er, I mean women.
I'm with Frank.
It ain't broke.
A second, second.
Don't mess with happy.
cpborello
06-21-2007, 11:25
I'm relatively new here. My photography interest started with a dSLR, and I stumbled upon rangefinders looking for the latitude of B&W film (as compared to that of a dSLR sensor), because I can't stand spending time in photoshop, and to combat low-light focus hunt of AF cameras. So, I guess I'd fall somewhat into that "backlash" group.
We need more chicks......
Arkansas has plenty. You can't drive 10 miles without seeing a chicken farm...:D :D :D :D
shutterflower
06-21-2007, 11:33
In January 2007 RFF had just under 9800 registered members. Today we have 13,850, an increase of about 40% in six months. In January during the day, there were usually about 300 people visiting RFF (though of course this varied throughout the day). Lately 400 people on RFF has not been unusual. This morning at 7:19 AM Pacific Time, RFF had 513 people online. Amazingly this growth was accomplished with an advertising budget of zero.
It seems our little rangefinder community is growing, even thriving, in this digital SLR and Point N Shoot world. I would like to extend a big thanks to everyone, and ask you all,
How we can make RFF even better?
Stephen
and such is the magic of the internet. Social networking, bulletin board, and blogging sites are the most cost effective list building, marketing research, and advertising channels in the modern communications universe. This is because they require nothing to grow but human nature in action.
I suggested to an employer once, that placing a banner on RFF would be a very good idea. 13K viewers, maybe 40% of which have never heard of the company. I noted, to top management at the company, that their marketing presence on the internet was nearly zilch. I noted that the audience here on RFF would be a high-efficiency audience since we are almost entirely film/traditional users and are strong consumers. How else could a company serve ads to such a highly concentrated market with so much potential for business development and sales? No other way. Beats TV, radio, paper mail, magazines, and any kind of advertising on broad audience websites such as MSN.
Well, I would hate to see it become an advertising server, but I simply suggested that the company would try for a spot on RFF and watch its sales grow in the following months. "just go to the yellow sponsor link and check it out". Nothing. oh well. We ARE the market they want. It's their loss, and as the hit-rates and unique visitors numbers gradually increase, the value of advertising on RFF will climb expotentially. Harness the value of adspace on RFF to finance this.
Making RFF better would include increasing the bandwidth and storage capacity so we can upload larger images. This is a big one for me. It would include more contests to get people shooting. A batch uploader function for the gallery would be REALLY NICE.
That's excellent news :D
I'm honestly not sure what can make it even better here. I use a number of different forum sites for different things and I've been professionally involved with sites that host forums, and I have to say that compared to many, this one is a beacon of civility. I can certainly understand the ideal of free speech (and strongly support it), but I do think some moderation is occasionally needed, and I generally think that the moderators here have it just about right - gentle moderation with rare intervention.
Someone suggested speeding up the servers a bit - yes, I do sometimes find the site to be a bit slow (but not that often really). Faster servers would hopefully get us the random photos back? I really liked that.
Oh yes, disable the software that automatically censors specific words (and rely on moderators to remove anything that is genuinely offenisve, racist, etc - it will be extremely rare) - it's crazy that the name of a garden implement that isn't quite the same as a shovel (a ***** - just testing) should be prohibited.
But really, I agree with those who say it ain't broke.
pellothed1
06-21-2007, 11:38
As one of those new members (this being my first post since joining), I found this "place" looking for info on changing the vertical alignment of my R2A. I decided to join and keep coming back because this "place" is much friendlier than other forums and despite all the gear talk, people seem to concentrate more on photography than cameras.
shadowfox
06-21-2007, 11:51
Free Bessas? :)
Don't push it :)
How about a Bessa/Leica rental?
or
A discount for supporting members (kinda like corporate discount on cars :)
or
A booth in camera shows
or
...
And welcome to the forum pellothed1! :) It's interesting because the Leica & Rangefinders forum over on PN seems to have almost died. Very few new posts over there compared to what it used to be like.
I believe, with the demise of the Pnet Leica forum (it's really really really gone down hill imho) a lot of folks will be flocking / coming here - that said.. I'd like to toss my name into the "it ain't broke, don't fix it" hat.
Dave
Bring back the sample gallery photos on the front page to get a good balance between the actual photos, the discussions and the classified section!
Jon
And welcome to the forum pellothed1! :) It's interesting because the Leica & Rangefinders forum over on PN seems to have almost died. Very few new posts over there compared to what it used to be like.
I think this is because of the difference in "tone" between here and there. The difference in tone is attributable to the moderation at the respective sites. Thanks Joe, Ralph, and Kim.
pellothed1
06-21-2007, 11:56
And welcome to the forum pellothed1! - Like I said, friendly place. Thanks Peter.
I meant to say welcome too, sorry! ;)
Semi-Professionally done and documented rangefinder lens tests, very much in the manner raid does them, Not brick walls or MTF charts and endless diiscussions about LPM etc.... but common "everyday" examples
I think this is because of the difference in "tone" between here and there. The difference in tone is attributable to the moderation at the respective sites. Thanks Joe, Ralph, and Kim.
I agree ..... BUT .... a bit "up the naught" at times though.....
pesphoto
06-21-2007, 12:04
My only thing is the banners. Could we maybe have one on the main page that rotates between each sponsor and then have a separate page that shows them all at the same time so we dont need to have them all on the main page at once? I just get turned off by too much advertising, just me. Though I understand their importance to the site.
bob cole
06-21-2007, 12:15
Congratulations, Stephen, on stepping in at an opportune time... As for improvements, if it ain't broke, don't fix it...
Beef up the server if necessary and bring back the random photos!
Ian
I am one of the late comers here, and what I like, is a high content of no nonsense posts, a high general level of the photos shown and... an occasional lightweight topic that breaks the routine...
What I think should be improved asap, is the search engine capacity to extract past topics, because at present it really is dispersive and does not rank the relevance of the findings, and therefore myself and surely lots of others, keep on asking the same questions over again.
visiondr
06-21-2007, 13:06
I'm just here for the free hot dog.
charjohncarter
06-21-2007, 13:12
I'm glad RFF is thriving. One facet of RFF that isn't very well represented in other forums is the discussion of film. Some of the members may not do much rangefinder photography, but are interested it film, developing, printing threads.
visiondr
06-21-2007, 13:12
But, seriously, Frank is right to thank the moderators. I have found the tone at other sites just a bit too "uppity" or "holier than thou". The tone here is more civil and forgiving.
BillBingham2
06-21-2007, 13:15
The free beer is good to..........
OOOOPPPPSSSS, was I not to share that with everyone?
Gabriel M.A.
06-21-2007, 13:17
I have found the tone at other sites just a bit too "uppity" or "holier than thou". The tone here is more civil and forgiving.
I second Ron's sentiment.
And don't get me started on PNut. I like roasted cashews and almonds better ;)
How we can make RFF even better?
Free CV 21mm f/4 Color-Skopars for all? :D
markinlondon
06-21-2007, 13:37
Frank shows us the way as ever. The moderation on this forum is wonderfully unobtrusive.
Oh, and I'll second Gabriel's suggestion too, 21/4's all round.
Cheers.
SteveM(PA)
06-21-2007, 13:40
Moving the pnet classifieds didn't help them either. How 'bout we get a link section to some of the stuff members have put on youtube (or even host it here)? Since rangefinders are so much about how the photog is perceived when using them, how about more members do some video presentations of your gear, how they fit in your hands, and let us hear those shutters (well, some semblance of it), and how you shoot with it, with or without ninja gear. :) Oh, and we could use some definitive videos of loading techniques (barnacks etc). I'm still haunted by how fast Annie Leibovitz loaded her M7 in that PBS documentary. :eek:
I like the way this forum is, maybe some improvement can be done but it's the "atmosphere" that's great here, thanks to the self control of people but also for the job the mods do.
Then, since I join I learned lot of things about photography ...
thanks everybody :)
ciao
I'm with Frank.
That should be the unofficial RFF t-shirt! I'd buy one.
traveller
06-21-2007, 13:49
Free CV 21mm f/4 Color-Skopars for all? :D
I support this too :D
And for the rest? Beef up the server, bring back the random gallery and keep a light hand when moderating.
danwilly
06-21-2007, 14:01
Making it better?
Free ice cream.
kshapero
06-21-2007, 14:22
Wholeheartedly agree. The heavy hand of censorship here stifles debate like a layer of sago. Controversy is not a sin. Lively debate informs and stimulates. This is a forum not a reading room. By all means nip personal attacks in the bud, but let other weeds come to fruition.
Regards,
Bill
I, for one, do not agree. RFF is lively and civil. I like it that way.
"How we can make RFF even better?
Stephen"
If the issue of the Random Gallery is solved, this will balance the site beyond the gear side, and attract more people with interest in the artistic side of photography.
Image making photographers are in deep need of feed back. Dennying them the Random Gallery is like dennying them oxygen.
Cheers,
Ruben
foto_fool
06-21-2007, 14:24
Congrats to Stephen, Jorge and the mods - I think you guys are doing a great job.
People come here because when they google a rangefinder question - ANY question, I have found - a post from RFF pops up near the top. And the threads have useful, real-world information from users at all levels of skill.
People stay for the free beer - oops, sorry! - I mean, they stay for the inclusive tone and generally tolerant atmosphere. This is really a big tent. Newcomers are acknowleged (welcome pellothed1) and the folks who have been here the longest are cool with them jumping into long-running discussions.
There is very little personal sniping, especially in the technical discussions but even in the OT threads when they get really inflammatory. And as others have noted, if someone is so thin-skinned that they can't stand the heat, they are welcome to get out of the kitchen.
I have no problem with the banner ads - I don't feel like I am being sold to and the sponsors participation in threads makes it clear that they are not here just to flog their wares.
RE: site improvements - I'm in the "if it ain't broke..." camp. Sure a bigger, faster server would be great - but expensive. And if you have never migrated a site this big to a new server, don't go suggesting it unless you are willing to do the work yourself :bang: i mean...:D .
I say, thanks and keep up the good work! Cheers! - John
kshapero
06-21-2007, 14:27
My only thing is the banners. Could we maybe have one on the main page that rotates between each sponsor and then have a separate page that shows them all at the same time so we dont need to have them all on the main page at once? I just get turned off by too much advertising, just me. Though I understand their importance to the site.
pesphoto, lets look at from the other end. I am damn glad Stephen doesn't put any dumb a-s Google ads up there or ads for Casino night, etc. At least the ads are about our lust, so I am ok with that.
I am a latecomer to this site as well. I happened upon this site after digging out my old Olympus Ace and shooting a roll. I wondered if anyone else even remebered this camera! Enter.....RFF Forum.
I have not only enjoyed the quality of conversation and information but also reading back through older topics.
I am proud to be a member here. I wouldn't change anything for now, if it were up to me. Some RFF gear would be nice, hats, tshirts, and the like.
I think the forums work very well, in part because the tone is civil and moderators are doing a good job.
NIKON KIU
06-21-2007, 14:56
More RFF pass the camera projects, may be a rental program to have members try other gear, more photo projects,more,more more.....
Kiu
David Murphy
06-21-2007, 15:11
I would like to see premium memberships return (i.e. paid memberships) and their associated ability to post classified ads free of the $2 fee. I would rather buy and sell here than at Camera Gas (it's policies are too slanted in favor of buyers).
Personally, I am a pre-30s user (21) who just got into film for the first time (taking courses on developing, etc...) however I have been a digital SLR user for quite some time. I felt that I wanted to find something more to photography that would give me a much better understanding and enjoyment out of the process.... I tend to get bored with the digital area of photography. I know all of the ins and outs of photoshop and can do any sort of processing I would ever want to do in it, but I just get bored with the fact that its just so easy... with film it seems more magical and mysterious as you dont know what you got until you start developing and printing, etc.
So as for the forums go, I enjoy how they are quite a bit so far. Ive mainly been sticking around the FSU RF area, but Im extremely interested in medium format photography, etc.
Rodinal Addict
06-21-2007, 16:00
Nothing really to change, I like it just the way it is. But you could add a feature, to make our photos earn an income. How about a RFF stock photo agency, where anyone can view our photos, and can buy usage for a set or negotiable fee. We can upload as many or as few images as desired, RFF could keep a small percentage as a brokers fee, to keep the ads and banners away. I'd be more apt to post more photos if I knew someone might like my images and have a use for them, and would pay for them.
Robin
Free ice cream would be nice.
What would make it better for me:
Get much more bandwith and storage space, so we can upload large high quality images.
It's probably not the users bandwith which is the bottleneck here. Shame for a photography website.
Please don't change anything especially when it comes to censorship of controversial topics, such as religion and politics. While discord is healthy, it could lead to vitriolic disagreements, that has plagued other internet fora.
RFF, is perhaps one of the friendliest fora, in this age of information superhighway.
Gray Fox
06-21-2007, 17:25
I'm a relative newbie here, a year or so, but have been a photographer for about 40 years (unfortunately I didn't start at age 10, either). I have been a volunteer officer in various organizations and can appreciate the time, work and patience that must go into being a moderator. Would that I had such lack of ego at times. I really appreciate the tone when in response to a newbie question the reply is usually to the effect that one might do a search for such and such or one of so and so's threads on it. There is none of the "if you'd just pull your head out and use the search engine you'll find more than YOU will ever understand about it" attitude from anyone. This as much as anything keeps new folks staying on. Now, if I ever get a DSL connection I'll try uploading some things from the Moskva 5 and Yashica GS that I didn't have before I found this place. Thanks to all for the continuing hard work.
Stephen thats great news to here and hope that your business is prospering as well because of the growth. For the most part i'm with Frank, If it ain't broke don't fix it. But Reuben and others are right about the gallery. But the thing that most people need to do is start sharing more photos for us to enjoy. Since I got my Bessa R & 35/2.5 CS lens from you I have started posting and spending more time in the gallery & I like seeing others work. That challenges me to get out more and enjoy my bessa and thats what it's all about.:)
Greg
Al Patterson
06-21-2007, 18:45
Please don't change anything especially when it comes to censorship of controversial topics, such as religion and politics. While discord is healthy, it could lead to vitriolic disagreements, that has plagued other internet fora.
RFF, is perhaps one of the friendliest fora, in this age of information superhighway.
What he said. Also, what FrankS said. On other fora, the level of civility when discussing the aforementioned topics tend to head in one direction, and not a good one.
I don't have any major complaints at this time, and I think mostly "it ain't broke, it don't need fixed" applies.
A couple minor issues ...
1. To put this in geeky terms, go back to absolute time in the display of recently posted messages. Some of us will do a new message command, get distracted or have to do real work, and return minutes to hours later. A time of "7:15am" is correct all the time, but "7 minutes ago" is not.
2. Random gallery photos. :)
3. Here's an idea that I've seen on other systems. Make a user's first post subject to approval by moderators. This gets rid of those who use scripts to post spam on these systems.
As for moderation, I agree that genuine sincere debate should be allowed, even if it starts to degenerate into the same old red/blue left/right drek. However, personal attacks need to be stomped on immediately. (Apply Godwin's Law?) :)
Now, for my major rant of the day ...
I would like to see premium memberships return (i.e. paid memberships) and their associated ability to post classified ads free of the $2 fee.
Let's see, how do I say this without using some very salty language ...
Gag me with a fork! Let's kill this one before it starts to spread! :(
I have had very few major gripes with this system since I joined, but this was one, probably the only one. The two-class system is not what we need. I'll speak freely.
When the two-class system was in force, I felt less valued for my participation in the gallery and in the forums (fora?). It's the users who make this system what it is, and we need to value all for their participation.
If there's a demand, set up some kind of an all-you-can-post buffet ad pricing for those who want to trade gear, but please don't start again with such nonsense as "gold membership", stars by the name, relaxed gallery rules, etc.
If you go back a year or so, you'll see that there was a down-hill trend when the two-class system was imposed.
You'll also notice that several of those who left during the rocky days are now back.
Please don't make that horrendous mistake again! :)
Thanks :)
I absolutely agree with dmr's thoughts on the 2 class member system! Please not again!
A suggestion for a minor tweak is to make email or PM notification of a gallery comment the default setting. That way one knows when someone has made a comment on one's photo in the gallery and one can respond. This would increase the functionality and interactiveness of the gallery part of RFF, which I think would be a good thing.
Peter_Jones
06-22-2007, 05:28
RFF is now my favourite camera forum, I came here as a confirmed film enthusiast and what i found was refreshing ; everyone can voice their opinions or photographs without fear of ridicule or scorn, and there are some real experts on here and none of them have a superiority complex and will exchange ideas and information with any forum member. The atmosphere is one of trust and friendship, nurturing ideas. Looking through the gallery gives me inspiration to get out and shoot (just need a scanner now so I can post a few pics).
That's enough sucking-up :D
I find the use of the forum , although slower than some, is still fast enough for me, and the advertising is not intrusive. Some of the sub-forums take a bit of navigation but I can find my way around this site OK now.
I thing being a worldwide forum increases the appeal, especially with the galleries - seeing real life in places i have never been is fascinating for me.
Long may it continue :D
Pete
sepiareverb
06-22-2007, 06:26
I've been so surprised at just how much fun this site has been since I stumbled across it somehow. I'll say that I find things are great as they are. I've learned more in the last few months than I would have ever imagined, and hope I've passed on some just as useful info to others.
THANKS! to all of you.
canonetc
06-22-2007, 18:24
How about downloadable RFF movie clips or video of RFF'ers doing their thing?
An "RFF Video Blog" perhaps? But, nah; we'd spend all out time watching movies instead of shooting....but for lessons, tips, sharing GAS (phew!), or just interest-sake, it might be cool....
Chris
canonetc
ChrisPlatt
06-22-2007, 18:29
I agree that the moderators are too quick to cut off discussion of controversial topics.
We are more than cameras...
Chris
I'd like to see the RFF logged-in session not expire (log you out) as quickly as it does now. At least an hour would be nice.
sepiareverb
06-22-2007, 19:35
I agree that the moderators are too quick to cut off discussion of controversial topics...
Some of those threads can just seem interminable to me- I think the mods are usually pretty balanced.
Congru on getting more popular. I suggest Stephen could launch a series of RFF souvenir exclusivly for members, like cap, softrelease etc.:rolleyes:
yeah, the m8 probably caused the jump.
a konica hexar af/rf forum is long overdue, and maybe you could hire raid to do more lens tests. and how about rangefinder workshops worldwide?
ClaremontPhoto
06-22-2007, 23:51
I absolutely agree with dmr's thoughts on the 2 class member system! Please not again!
A suggestion for a minor tweak is to make email or PM notification of a gallery comment the default setting. That way one knows when someone has made a comment on one's photo in the gallery and one can respond. This would increase the functionality and interactiveness of the gallery part of RFF, which I think would be a good thing.
I agree with FrankS two times.
alan davus
06-23-2007, 01:46
As something of a hopeless Luddite, I've only really learned how to use the internet in the last year or two. What never ceases to amaze me is I can get on Rff and speak to, or voice opinions with people from the 4 corners of the Earth who share a common interest with myself. And even the divides here between analogue and digital are greeted with a fair amount of mutual respect on each side. Well done to all those responsible for running and overseeing the site. And thanks to all those members who input I so enjoy.
David Murphy
06-23-2007, 23:09
I'm just curious as to why some very active members get so bent out-of-shape at the prospect of paying a nominal (yes very small) fee to support the site via memberships. It always struck me as quite a bargain. Many members spend a hundred times that fee or more on camera gear every year.
I'm just curious as to why some very active members get so bent out-of-shape at the prospect of paying a nominal (yes very small) fee to support the site via memberships. It always struck me as quite a bargain. Many members spend a hundred times that fee or more on camera gear every year.
I guess it's more a dislike of the idea of showing publicly who is a site sponsor and who isn't. That's something I wouldn't like either, because it creates a two-tier system of members where some members are better than others.
I guess few people would have a problem with premium memberships if it wasn't publicly shown. That way, if you want to support RFF, get a premium membership and free ads. Then again, this is less profitable for RFF vis-a-vis the $2-for-everyone ads, so in effect RFF would have less money, so a premium membership with free ads creates more problems than it addresses.
If people just want to support RFF, a simple PayPal button would do the job. If people want to place lots of ads, maybe a reduced "bulk fee" (pay $20, get 15 ads) would be less disruptive.
David Murphy
06-24-2007, 00:12
I guess it's more a dislike of the idea of showing publicly who is a site sponsor and who isn't. That's something I wouldn't like either, because it creates a two-tier system of members where some members are better than others.
I guess few people would have a problem with premium memberships if it wasn't publicly shown. That way, if you want to support RFF, get a premium membership and free ads. Then again, this is less profitable for RFF vis-a-vis the $2-for-everyone ads, so in effect RFF would have less money, so a premium membership with free ads creates more problems than it addresses.
If people just want to support RFF, a simple PayPal button would do the job. If people want to place lots of ads, maybe a reduced "bulk fee" (pay $20, get 15 ads) would be less disruptive.
Sounds good to me. The problem with $2 ads is that it's not worth it to post items less than about $50 or so. For example you will see a lot less FSU gear, film, etc. posted here with the $2 ad rate. If there were a block rate for ads I'd snap at it immediately;
I'd like it would be possible to upload pictures directly through apple i photo, as on Photo Net.
More discussions on pictures than technics.
No discussion on Leica M8.
Amicalement RFF c'est super !:angel:
Making RFF better would include increasing the bandwidth and storage capacity so we can upload larger images. This is a big one for me. It would include more contests to get people shooting. A batch uploader function for the gallery would be REALLY NICE.
This is good one.. but cost money.. regarding more of Free expression it's cheapper (so to speak) but will cost Mods time on where to step in and ask for people not speak so loud! But do not silent them. Avoid the "political correct" atitude.
And Congrats to All.
ChrisPlatt
06-24-2007, 05:42
If people just want to support RFF, a simple PayPal button would do the job.
But not everyone uses Paypal. I don't, so I can't place
a pay-as-you-go ad, nor could I make a contribution.
Chris
kshapero
06-24-2007, 05:47
I have been using Paypal forever and it works great for me. Why not to use it?
ChrisPlatt
06-24-2007, 07:05
I found out the hard way that Paypal's "buyer protection" is but a myth.
Paypal is fine for individuals selling items, but a commercial website
selling stuff should have something more professional,
e.g. accepting credit cards via their own secure server.
Chris
I guess it's more a dislike of the idea of showing publicly who is a site sponsor and who isn't. That's something I wouldn't like either, because it creates a two-tier system of members where some members are better than others.
It's how I feel valued by the site operator. I want to be valued for my contributions to the forums and gallery, not for my financial contributions.
However, for the current time, it seems to be a moot point as the new operator has said that $$$ contributions are not necessary. This is subsidized by a business.
I don't know if I will ever buy a Bessa, but if I do, I know who I will go to first. It's a Good Thing<tm> for the site sponsor.
If people just want to support RFF, a simple PayPal button would do the job.
Quite a few people will not use Paypal.
I'm one of them.
Why?
It doesn't matter. It's nobody's business but the person who chooses to use or not use Paypal.
I'm sure CQ has a "real" merchant account for credit cards. That would work. For those who are shy about plugging in their card number on line, a street address to send a check would work.
But that's a moot point. The current sponsor says no payment is necessary.
If people want to place lots of ads, maybe a reduced "bulk fee" (pay $20, get 15 ads) would be less disruptive.
Yes, make a deal for bulk-rate ads for those who want to trade and trade and trade, but please don't designate those who subscribe to an all-you-can-spew ad buffet as "gold members" or "premium members" or things like that.
good news! RF's need new users to stay alive, but main reason for me join this forum
is relatively mature user base.
but I hope this place wont turn to a play ground for younglings only,
would not like to see new "Whats best Leica-M camera" poll every week, for example.
I've seen that happen one Mac forum I've followed for years,
those zillion "help! my iPod just frozen" basicly alienated from that place..
I prefer shut up and read what more experienced ones have to say.
edit: I do have my sins too, though.. just in case somebody now checks my old posts :D
I'm just curious as to why some very active members get so bent out-of-shape at the prospect of paying a nominal (yes very small) fee to support the site via memberships. It always struck me as quite a bargain.
Yes and no. The success of RFF is due to the quality of its members and, for want of a better phrase, the "intellectual property" value that RFF members contribute to the site. Because of the welcoming climate, I think many longtime members have spent a lot of time answering basic questions that, on other sites, would be rudely dismissed or ridiculed. In this respect, they already contribute to RFF in the form of community service. As was found last year, it is disrepectful to ask volunteers to suddenly start paying for the privilege to volunteer.
ChrisPlatt
06-25-2007, 12:19
I still say it's the black background! ;)
Chris
When we are 10,000 strong, we could start plan to get special deals from insurance companies as a "group". Another way is to get special deals from labs and photosupply stores.
Stephen
You (&mods need a troll button)
A poll thread e.g.
What Stephen could say to Mr K
e.g. small batch of the Nikon F to Contax adapters
whatever, feedback is strange.
Noel
When a thread on informal testing of some lenses gets several thousand views here on RFF, this is simply amazing to me. People here mostly are caring people who can contribute to a variety of topics about life. Without such people, RFF would not be as a good a site as it is now.
When we are 10,000 strong,
While I don't doubt that there are 10,000 entries in the user list, I seriously doubt that there are anywhere near 10,000 active users.
Why do I say this? I don't consider myself to be the most prolific poster there is, but I'm consistently number 40-something on the "top" list. That means that out of 10,000 users, 9960 of them post less than I do.
Would it be possible to get, say, the number of users who have logged in during the past 90 days, or the number of users who have posted either to the forums (fora?) or gallery within the past 90 days?
That might be very interesting, to see how many truly active users there are here. I really have no clue, but I am curious.
Similar things happen at universities when you don't really know how many students are actively enrolled unless you check with instructors to see if their students are handing in assignments or taking exams ... etc. Else, student counts are inflated.
Even if we are 1000 people strong, this is a large number for companies to consider.
At any given time, there are more than 100 "photographers" (registered users) online, plus several hundred visitors. A few forum members seem to be always online, but others come and go.
Al Patterson
06-25-2007, 15:18
While I don't doubt that there are 10,000 entries in the user list, I seriously doubt that there are anywhere near 10,000 active users.
Why do I say this? I don't consider myself to be the most prolific poster there is, but I'm consistently number 40-something on the "top" list. That means that out of 10,000 users, 9960 of them post less than I do.
Would it be possible to get, say, the number of users who have logged in during the past 90 days, or the number of users who have posted either to the forums (fora?) or gallery within the past 90 days?
That might be very interesting, to see how many truly active users there are here. I really have no clue, but I am curious.
That's interesting. I can't seem to find the "top" list. Not that I'm really up on it, but it would be neat to look at...
NIKON KIU
06-25-2007, 16:36
That's interesting. I can't seem to find the "top" list. Not that I'm really up on it, but it would be neat to look at...
Easy,
click on the forum index:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/index.php
On the left side meru bar pull down the "Module Jump" and choose statistics.
You will find it on that page on the right side.
Kiu
yeah, the m8 probably caused the jump.
a konica hexar af/rf forum is long overdue, and maybe you could hire raid to do more lens tests. and how about rangefinder workshops worldwide?
;)
I'd like to see one too.
I remember day one. I placed a couple of posts on other forums and anxiously sat in front of the monitor for hours just looking at traffic and what people were saying. So many said, We don't need another photo site. There are plenty already. I sure would like to talk to those skeptics today :)
Look at this snapshot from 2003:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030807010934/http://www.rangefinderforum.com/
Only 3 people on line :)
I am hoping the CameraGAS will experience the same popularity as RFF. But, It takes all the members here and in other places to make that happen.
Glad to see my creation come to life :D
http://www.bootstrapme.com/50226711/images/Frankenstein_Satire.jpg
Easy,
click on the forum index:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/index.php
On the left side meru bar pull down the "Module Jump" and choose statistics.
You will find it on that page on the right side.
Kiu
Thanks! It seems that tonight I am Nr.5.
Do I get a medal or something? :D
Raid
NIKON KIU
06-25-2007, 21:24
Reid,
How did you like finding the "Statistics" on RFF??
There is more to it than that! Who has most posts per day?
Kiu
Kiu,
It is a very informative section here. As a statistician, I view statistics as useful information. I saw above me Brian Sweeney, Rover, FrankS and Joe.
Raid
I just counted: 14 out of the 25 top threads were polls a few minutes ago (or 56%).
Food for thought ?
Roland.
Let's poll and poll until we collect so much data that nobody has any clue anymore what was collected!
In January 2007 RFF had just under 9800 registered members. Today we have 13,850, an increase of about 40% in six months. In January during the day, there were usually about 300 people visiting RFF (though of course this varied throughout the day). Lately 400 people on RFF has not been unusual. This morning at 7:19 AM Pacific Time, RFF had 513 people online. Amazingly this growth was accomplished with an advertising budget of zero.
It seems our little rangefinder community is growing, even thriving, in this digital SLR and Point N Shoot world. I would like to extend a big thanks to everyone, and ask you all,
How we can make RFF even better?
Stephen
My grandmother had a saying "a fish starts to stink from the head", the application here being that the tone of a site is set from the top. So you can take a well-deserved bow Stephen, because RFF remains a hospitable place to come, despite a fast influx, mainly because trolling and disrupting for the sport of it aren't tolerated. I'm not the least bit surprised that readership has skyrocketed, I'll bet a lot of them are defectors from " that other" internet photo site where the inmates run the asylum.
NIKON KIU
06-27-2007, 14:37
Currently active photographers: 603 (110 members and 493 guests)
Come-on People,let's get some members in here and break the record!! :)
Kiu
ChrisPlatt
06-27-2007, 16:06
...RFF remains a hospitable place to come...
But sometimes RFF can get just a bit too chummy for me.
It's supposed to a forum, not a mutual admiration society...
Chris
At work we call that "Coorporate Cool-Aid", Chris ...
:)
back alley
06-27-2007, 17:21
But sometimes RFF can get just a bit too chummy for me.
It's supposed to a forum, not a mutual admiration society...
Chris
what's your ideal forum chris?
just curious.
joe
I guess, Chris may refer to cheerleading some people instead of stricter critique and blander comments. PhotoNet has such a ultra critical Leica Forum from which many RFF have migrated to. Insults and/or sarcasm are not abnormal "there". People are different, and it is better to have different types of sites to accomodate different tastes and endurance levels.
Maybe I am mistaken here.
Raid
Not trying to speak for Chris but there are a lot of threads in which we discuss how great we (RFF) are ...
back alley
06-27-2007, 17:38
Not trying to speak for Chris but there are a lot of threads in which we discuss how great we (RFF) are ...
is that so bad?
joe
It's been a while since the last "I'm done" thread :D
back alley
06-27-2007, 17:48
i was just about to start one rollie as i think i actually might be done now!
;)
Gee, I'm sorry if those threads bother anyone. Read what you want.
back alley
06-27-2007, 17:52
it's all in fun frank!
thomasw_
06-27-2007, 18:05
Wholeheartedly agree. The heavy hand of censorship here stifles debate like a layer of sago. Controversy is not a sin. Lively debate informs and stimulates. This is a forum not a reading room. By all means nip personal attacks in the bud, but let other weeds come to fruition.
Regards,
Bill
I agree with these notions, especially about the allusion to a layer of sago :) So, Bill, I see you and I have similar set ups....you just need to lose that m7 and we'll be UK and Canuck mirror images gear-wise. Don't burst the bubble on this symmetrical theory and tell me you are going to hang on to body that has AE!!! ;) good cheer, thomasw.
Gee, I'm sorry if those threads bother anyone. Read what you want.
OK, Frank, I shall stay away from threads posted by the forum owner in the RFF News :)
It might be a cultural thing, you know.
After I moved to California, a German friend once told me:
He: Roland, so now you have to do it se American way
Me: How is that ?
He: Do good .........
.......... and speak about it ! :D
Cheers,
Roland.
OK, Frank, I shall stay away from threads posted by the forum owner in the RFF News :)
It might be a cultural thing, you know.
After I moved to California, a German friend once told me:
He: Roland, so now you have to do it se American way
Me: How is that ?
He: Do good .........
.......... and speak about it ! :D
Cheers,
Roland.
Roland: It would not be cheerleading to state that your contributions on RFF are "good" for the site. :D
Raid
But sometimes RFF can get just a bit too chummy for me.
It's supposed to a forum, not a mutual admiration society...
Chris
I think everyone on these photo sites knows the difference between respectful disagreement and The Jerry Springer Show ;)
Do you mean that statistics cannot tell the whole truth?
David
David,
Mathematicians never got over the fact that Statisticians are higher paid than Mathematicians. It simply refelcts the usefulness of the knowledge. :D
Raid
(The unbiased Statistician)
Stewart,
Statisticians provide politicians with information; the politicians either use the information, use it, or "modify" it and then use it.
Raid
That’s good, the thought politicians got corrupt data in the first place…….well, I wouldn’t be able to sleep!
;)
Stewart,
Statisticians provide politicians with information; the politicians either use the information, use it, or "modify" it and then use it.
Raid
Ich glaube nur an Statistiken, die ich selber gefaelscht habe :)
So, how many statisticians does it take to change a light bulb?
So, how many statisticians does it take to change a light bulb?
1 +- 2 * sigma ?
Ich glaube nur an Statistiken, die ich selber gefaelscht habe :)
Mein Lieber Herr Ferider,
Ich bewundere Ihre gefaelschte Statistiken!
Ja Ja und nochmals Ja!:D
Roland,
You're playing safe ...
Raid
edited: many people have a hard time saying the word "statistics".
Now say it in German.
ChrisPlatt
06-28-2007, 17:53
I am a jelly donut.
Chris
Three statisticians go shooting rabbits. The first misses to the right. The second misses to the left. The third yells: "Direct hit!"
Accuracy without precision! We call this an unbiased estimate, but not minimum variance.
BTW, for some time I am noticing that the number of guest viewers is three or four times the number of active members at a given time.
I wonder what this means.
Cheers,
Ruben
BTW, for some time I am noticing that the number of guest viewers is three or four times the number of active members at a given time.
I wonder what this means.
Cheers,
Ruben
Ruben: If the number of active members stays constant when compared to earlier times, while the number of guests increases, then this is a good sign. This means that the number of potential new members is increasing. On the other hand, if the number of active members is decreasing while the number of guests is increasing, then this is a decline of popularity with a potential of recovery due to the increased number of guests.
Either way, things are getting better here.
Raid
NIKON KIU
07-12-2007, 08:55
BTW, for some time I am noticing that the number of guest viewers is three or four times the number of active members at a given time.
I wonder what this means.
Cheers,
Ruben
Could mean a lotta members are choosing to "lurk" instead of Log-in:o
Kiu
Gabriel M.A.
07-12-2007, 18:46
It is a very informative section here. As a statistician, I view statistics as useful information.
Did Yogi Berra hijack your account, Raid? ;)
Gabriel M.A.
07-12-2007, 18:48
Ruben: If the number of active members stays constant when compared to earlier times, while the number of guests increases, then this is a good sign. This means that the number of potential new members is increasing. On the other hand, if the number of active members is decreasing while the number of guests is increasing, then this is a decline of popularity with a potential of recovery due to the increased number of guests.
Either way, things are getting better here.
So, statistically speaking, lurking is good, any way you look at it?
back alley
07-12-2007, 19:11
if you come to a fork in the road, take it...;)
good news! RF's need new users to stay alive, but main reason for me join this forum
is relatively mature user base.
but I hope this place wont turn to a play ground for younglings only,
would not like to see new "Whats best Leica-M camera" poll every week, for example.
I've seen that happen one Mac forum I've followed for years,
those zillion "help! my iPod just frozen" basicly alienated from that place..
I prefer shut up and read what more experienced ones have to say.
edit: I do have my sins too, though.. just in case somebody now checks my old posts :D "Mature user base" I agree. This observation is confirmed by the recent "What's your day job?" thread. Very impressive, even accounting for a selection bias (in who decided to post).
I'd add that the international user base also makes this forum exceptionally strong (and I wonder if anyone knows of a forum with comparable international diversity).
Finally, I have to say that I'm much more tolerant of simplistic questions and polls (maybe because I'm an RF newbie myself--though hardly a youngling) than I am of the rude or dismissive responses that appear on occasion. Posters who are experienced and wise often manage to answer a naive question while elevating the discourse in a way that challenges other experienced people.
Martin
Creagerj
07-12-2007, 20:36
I agree that there should be less censorship of threads. While I believe that all conversations should be kept civil, there is a purpose for every word and thus in conversation it is necessary to make all words available. I still think posting should be moderated for spamming and aggressive behavior however.
Also I agree that we should bring back the random gallery images on the main page.
Other than that, great job.
So, statistically speaking, lurking is good, any way you look at it?
Gabriel,
There certainly is no loss with lurking here, and there is potentially gain.
As forhaving my account hijacked, who knows ...I could be someone else whom I don't know ... [grin]
Raid [?]
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