Bessa R, Kiev 4am?

[Fedzilla_Bob]

Ok- here is my delima. I have FSU lenses and bodies. I have sold off a lot of techno crap on ebay and now I have a choice... Bessa R for my lenses? Or... A Kiev 4am and a Minolta Dimage Dual Scan IV. Of course film is in with the purchase of either choice.

I have been dreaming about this and it's starting to screw up my rest.

Any opinions are welcomed.

Thanks

[rover]

For a main user camera, something that is easy to shoot, carry and handle in all conditions, I don't think the Kiev can compare to the Bessa. The big bright viewfinder is the deciding factor for me. I enjoy my Kiev, but it can't be my main shooter.

Then sell some more stuff for the scanner.

[Fedzilla_Bob]

For a main user camera, something that is easy to shoot, carry and handle in all conditions, I don't think the Kiev can compare to the Bessa. The big bright viewfinder is the deciding factor for me. I enjoy my Kiev, but it can't be my main shooter.

Then sell some more stuff for the scanner.

This is the part that screws up my sleep, Bessa with the 35mm? Or Not. Or not gets me in range of the scanner and the Bessa R. I hear the 35/2.5 lens is great. and the pirce is right when sold in combination with the body. Sheesh.

[wlewisiii]

My Kievs are my main shooters. I have never been accused of sanity in photography, however. :eek:

It is a hard choice though - I had to consider hard and long before going the Contax/Kiev route over the Bessa R or similar. I enjoy the fully manual operation and loading, while not the easiest, is still better by far than a bottom feeder. There are fewer lenses available for the contax/kiev, OTOH what lenses are out there are all excellent and the odds of getting a good FSU lens are far better, it seems, than for the same model in LTM. You place your bet and you take your chances...

Personally I like my Kiev 4a better than any camera I've had previous to it (well, maybe except the Iskra, but MF folders are a quite differnt form of insanity). I really _really_ like my Kiev 5 because it's almost the best of both worlds - a big bright corrected brightline finder with lever advance and rewind as two big pluses. Now hopefully it will turn out to be as robust as the rest of the Contax/Kiev family; if so, I'll probably be shooting it for a long time to come.

William

(edit - the 35/2.5 is a really great lens... and it's availble in Contax mount... at closeout prices... :angel: )

[ruben]

In my opinion, it all depends upon the temperament and needs of the photographer.
Kind Regardsl,
Ruben

[rover]

This is the part that screws up my sleep, Bessa with the 35mm? Or Not. Or not gets me in range of the scanner and the Bessa R. I hear the 35/2.5 lens is great. and the pirce is right when sold in combination with the body. Sheesh.

What focal lengths do you normally shoot? What FSU glass do you have?

[tedwhite]

I have a lot of cameras, a Maxxum system and a Pentax Spotmatic system. In RF I have the Yashica GSN and the Olympus XA. I make money with the systems. I play with the RF's.

A friend recently loaned me a Kiev 4A with the Helios 103 for a few weeks and I had a lot of fun with it. In Southern Arizona is was certainly a conversation piece. However, although I really liked the quality of the images, I did not like the not-so-bright viewfinder/rangefinder, the twist the knob film advance - and most of all I did not like the archaic film loading system.

But I did like using a really solid RF camera and decided to order the Bessa R with the 35/25
lens, which I did yesterday.

I felt that if I was going to get seriously into RF photography I might as well get a camera as close to a Leica M series as possible without having to mortgage my house and sell my girl friend into slavery.

[Doug]

Congratulations on your soon-to-come Bessa-R package, Ted! Sounds like a good choice to me, and well-reasoned too. :)

[Fedzilla_Bob]

What focal lengths do you normally shoot? What FSU glass do you have?


I typically shoot 50mm. But, I am just getting back to film away from digital and it's quirks. I haven't shot film for a very long time.

I live in the San Diego area (Mira Mesa). I am new to the area and I love the scenery and the city of San Diego visually. So having a wider lens would be great.

I have an Industar 50mm collapsible, an industar 61 lanthanum, and an industar 26 that needs attention. I am searching for a Yoopeetor 8 (sorry, love the way it sounds in Russian).

Iknow that the 50mm collapsable shouldn't be used with the Bessa.

BTW- Just dropped into Bob Davis Photo in La Jolla to look at a Bessa R there. I had seen it before and went back to look. Still there a very nice 50mm on it. They keep it next to a Minolta CL and a CLE.

In a case very near it was a Zorki 4 (engraved) with a Jupiter 8 on it... $65.

Also noticed that the M2 that was there a week ago is gone. It is La Jolla after all ;). The Zorki and the Bessa probably won't hang with the Jags there.

[tedwhite]

Went to San Diego State University, lived in a servant's shack behind a rich man's home high in the hills above La Jolla in exchange for making sure his exotic cars got serviced, washed, etc.

Interesting - the Russian pronunciation of Jupiter. Almost the same in Spanish: "yoopitair."

[gabrielelopez]

Just don't think that the Bessa R is all that robust....full of plastic, mine broke twice..I ended up getting a Contax G, a Canonet, and I'm seriusly thinking about a Fed/Zorki...Voigtlander lenses are good, instead!

[rover]

Tough call, I walk around with my cam, 35 and 50 in a bag. I have been shooting B&W saving $ by not having prints made, and sometimes processing the negs myself. My scanner is pretty important right now. Knowing myself, I would end up charging the cam kit with 35 and scanner and paying off the few hundred $ difference in the next couple months in this instance.

[Richard Black]

Question: do you already have Kiev/Contax lenses? If not, will you be able to replace the ltm ones with K/C lenses? I have a R with the Jupiter 3 and 8, would like a nice 9, and a CV Color-Skopar 28mm. The bright viewfinder, built-in lightmeter, and weight made the decision for me.

[Fedzilla_Bob]

Question: do you already have Kiev/Contax lenses? If not, will you be able to replace the ltm ones with K/C lenses? I have a R with the Jupiter 3 and 8, would like a nice 9, and a CV Color-Skopar 28mm. The bright viewfinder, built-in lightmeter, and weight made the decision for me.
Hi Richard- No, all my FSU lenses are LTM. That is why the Bessa R is attractive to me. The qualities you list are what's keeping me up at night. Plus the fact that the shutter is a very nice metal electro/mechanical one.


Rover- I like your point of view. The scanner would allow me to show my work globally, on the web. That way I can get pointers from others with experience.

I can also put work onto a DVD in a video presentation. I can do that with my Canon G2. But film offers other qualities that digital doesn't. Like long night exposures. In order to have more fun with that digitally I would have to invest a much more expensive digital camera and still the results don't match that of film. Plus I find rangefinder cameras less "fiddly." Even less than my old Canon T70 slr.

Having the ability to wonder around downtown San Diego with a light RF appeals to me. SLRs and digital cameras invite questions. Or people tend to avoid the camera. With an RF I can just do my thing and get a shot. Move on. Once too often a shot has slipped away while the G2 decides if it likes what I have asked it to do. Which is why I shoot with it set to manual 75% of the time now. And, even then it still stalls before shooting from time to time. I haven't nailed down why that is. The G2 is "clever" but it ain't smart.

I figured since I am using the G2 manually the only advantage it is offering over a rangefinder is that I can just download the images. With the rangefinder and a scanner it is more work but better resolution.

Rover- which scanner do you have?

Jeeeeeeez - I am longwinded

[rover]

Flatbed Epson Perfection 3200 Photo. It is discontinued but the new one is really friendly to film. I bought it because I shoot 120 too. If you don't shoot 120 get a dedicated film scanner instead, scan quality is better. The Minolta Dual Scan IV is actually cheaper than the fancy Epson too. There are less expensive flat bed choices too.

[Fedzilla_Bob]

There are less expensive flat bed choices too.
Yeah, I have a Canoscan LiDE 35, which is ok for copying a print at web resolutions.

I definitely have my eye on the Minolta.

Thanks!

[einolu]

What about a Zorki 3? I hear the quality on the early models is very good and if you get one in good shape it should last you a while. Just a thought.

PS: Kievs arent really the staple of reliability, the shutters are a pain. I had one that worked for a while and then it started doing this weird thing where the lower half of the shot was being over exposed and then it stopped working all together.

[Fedzilla_Bob]

What about a Zorki 3? I hear the quality on the early models is very good and if you get one in good shape it should last you a while. Just a thought.

PS: Kievs arent really the staple of reliability, the shutters are a pain. I had one that worked for a while and then it started doing this weird thing where the lower half of the shot was being over exposed and then it stopped working all together.


Hi- I already have a few Soviet classics (FEDs). Wanted to get something with a non cloth shutter. That drives the consideration for a Kiev with a nice Helios 103 or Jupiter 8.

At this point the Bessa R is looking pretty good so far. I can stick LTm lenses I tend to only work one lens to a camera and not take them on and off a lot.

[Fedzilla_Bob]

Rover- is that red cat a burmese?

[einolu]

I would get the bessa. It has a nice finder, a modern shutter design and $250 isnt that big of a price to pay for a well designed camera. Even though the build qualiy might not the best I think it would be more reliable than a kiev.

[sockeyed]

I have a Kiev 4 and a Bessa R. I love my Kiev 4 kit (J-8, J-9, J-12 and H-103), and I love how it's built, but to be honest, I am sure to put a lot more film through my Bessa in the long run. It's hard to say no to a built-in meter and a huge viewfinder with multiple framelines. It's surely lighter too.

I've order a Dual Scan IV, too, but it hasn't arrived yet, so I can't comment. I got a great price on it at etronics.com, but it's been 2 weeks and no scanner.

[tedwhite]

I don't know if I already said this, but Friday I ordered the Bessa R w/35/2.5, so don't stress me and give me anxiety by telliing me they fall apart. Every time I read something like that I have to go ride my motorcycle through the desert at high speeds on cow trails in order to calm down.

[back alley]

deep breaths ted...

it's not gonna fall apart.

joe

[Richard Black]

:) I am happy with the Epson 3170. It handles 120 and 35 acceptably well for me. However, if you are in the US you could have the film developed and scanned on CD at the same time, saving you some time and upfront money. I like the Bessa R and I am not hard on my equipment. I have a Minolta X370 since the early 80's and it works well enough to take pictures at my daughter's wedding. The bright viewfinder is wonderful as is the rangefinder spot. I have a Zorkii 6 and a Leica IIIc with dim viewfinders. I use the Bessa R 90% of the time. I can't say more.

[einolu]

I don't know if I already said this, but Friday I ordered the Bessa R w/35/2.5, so don't stress me and give me anxiety by telliing me they fall apart. Every time I read something like that I have to go ride my motorcycle through the desert at high speeds on cow trails in order to calm down.

I just mentioned that because gabrielelopez mentioned it. I dont have any personal experiance with the camera. It looks great to me and I would love to own one, heh.

[Fedzilla_Bob]

:) However, if you are in the US you could have the film developed and scanned on CD at the same time, saving you some time and upfront money.

The CD idea is a good one I have good and bad results with those. The CDs obtained through Kodak have been my favorites. The local drug stores and mom and pop 1 hour shops tend to do wierd stuff with them. Long's Drug Stores here in California do something that looks a hell of a lot like a bad newspaper 150 line screen effect for some reason. Go figure.

Sockeyed- I have dealt with etronic for video equipment before. They are hard pressed to say when they have something in stock. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. They do eventually deliver.

[rover]

Orange Tabby. Just a regular old cat, 13 years old now actually.

[tedwhite]

BackAlley: Deep Breaths are good.

I made up all that stuff about stress and anxiety. Really, I just putt around in the desert. Honest. As a fiction writer I get paid to make stuff up, but sometimes I forget. Maybe the relentless sun in this blasted desert....these endless vistas of thornscrub and creosote bush...but I digress.

And anyway, I got on some site last night wherein owner's evaluations of their experiences with various cameras are posted. The average for the Bessa R was 4.06 out of a possible 5, 5 being the best, and the number of evaluators was about 25-26. One poster hated it but his reasoning left a bit to be desired in terms of logic. He obviously was a klutz who should never be allowed in the same room with a camera.

Another poster didn't like it because he couldn't see through it, but later, in an aside, confessed to dysfunctional vision. So you take two '1's away from a bunch of '5's and a lot of 4.6's and there you are.

Ted

Tomorrow's the day.

[Fedzilla_Bob]

Ted- I'm hoping you will let us know about your new R when it gets in. I can get some vicarious satisfaction that way.

[tedwhite]

Off topic a bit, but I've had consistently abominable results from CD's made from my color negs in places like Target, etc. When you stick them into your computer for a look it appears they were made at the lowest possible resolution. On one print, where I had rich cloud detail, the clouds now look like pure white cotton balls. In street shots, people's faces all look as if they were heavy smokers - that sort of reddish-purplish skin tone. While the prints are tack-sharp the same images on the CD look as it they were taken with a disposable camera.

Ted

[sockeyed]

Thanks, Fedzilla_bob re. etronics. They said it was in stock, but I'm having my doubts.

One thing that I didn't mention about the Kiev, a definite plus, is the HUGE rangefinder base, which gives one a good chance at focusing a longer lens, like the Jupiter-9 (85/2). I have doubts if my Bessa could handle something like that.

In terms of scanning, I've had good results from scans done on a Fuji Frontier. The attached picture was scanned on a Frontier (but it wasn't shot on a rangefinder. (Instead, a Canon T-90 w/ 135/3.5 on NPH)

[wlewisiii]

Just as a point of reference, re the long baseline, I use my Jupiter 9 85/2 and Jupiter 11 135/4 wide open on a regular basis. No problems with focusing. The portrait "Pretty Woman" in my gallery was with a Jupiter 9 - f2@1/25th - on my Kiev 5 which has the shortest RF of any Contax/Kiev model. No problems.

William

[Fedzilla_Bob]

(Instead, a Canon T-90 w/ 135/3.5 on NPH)
OOOOOOoooh the canon T90. A Colani designed masterpiece. If I were to chase after SLRs that would be the one. I have a T70 - the baby brother to the T90. I love the Canon FD lens system.

I have never heard of the Fuji Frontier. I wonder if it is sold here in the "States." I will look that up. Is it one of the flatbed scanners?

[Fedzilla_Bob]

OK, I have gone and done it. I found a Bessa R Body on ebay with a buy it now price of $200.

Now the scanner issue looms. Suggestions?

[Fedzilla_Bob]

I just received notification that the Bessa R is shipping from Westminster, Colorado.

[tedwhite]

Mine's shipping from cameraquest. How far from Westminster, CO is it to your place?

[Doug]

Do we have a Bessa-R delivery race? :)

[Fedzilla_Bob]

Mine's shipping from cameraquest. How far from Westminster, CO is it to your place?
I'm in San Diego Its coming from Colorado via US Postal Service Priority mail. I sent two items to CO last week and they arrived in 3 days. So, I guess Wednesday earliest. I have some Kodachrome waiting. Except I didn't get the very nice 35mm Skopar. Ill put an Industar 61 on until my Jupiter 8 comes in.

[tedwhite]

Mine came yesterday (the Bessa R w/35mm lens) and I've been out shooting with it.

First impression: a surprisngly small camera. Very bright viewfinder, all controls in the right place, very easy to use and getting easier. In another day or so, when one of the +/- arrows appears, I won't have to stop and think about which way to move the aperture ring.

I DID NOT find the rewind lever difficult to raise, as some people have reported.

[Fedzilla_Bob]

Mine came yesterday (the Bessa R w/35mm lens) and I've been out shooting with it.

First impression: a surprisngly small camera. Very bright viewfinder, all controls in the right place, very easy to use and getting easier. In another day or so, when one of the +/- arrows appears, I won't have to stop and think about which way to move the aperture ring.

I DID NOT find the rewind lever difficult to raise, as some people have reported.

Can't wait to see your images from the new Bessa and lens.

(Bob is turning blue from holding his breath while awaiting the Bessa R he won on ebay) Anticipation sucks.

[sockeyed]

The Fuji Frontier is a digital mini-lab printing system held in very high regard. You can find a lot of discussions about it on photo.net. Since it's digital, it scans each neg/slide and prints from the scan. It can also print direct from digital images, obviously. When you get your images processed, you are also given the option of getting scans saved to CD.

Yes, the T-90 is a bit of a masterpiece. I like mine a great deal even though it's pretty new to me. My uncle, a professional photographer, actually gave me two of them in non-working condition (one had actually been stepped on by a horse). A brilliant photo tech got one in working condition for only $75. I also have an F-1N that I love dearly too.

[Fedzilla_Bob]

The Fuji Frontier is a digital mini-lab printing system held in very high regard. You can find a lot of discussions about it on photo.net... When you get your images processed, you are also given the option of getting scans saved to CD.

After I saw your previous post mentioning the Frontier I learned a little about them and found a processing lab (Chrome) here in San Diego and not very far from where I live. I will have to give it a try

[Fedzilla_Bob]

It's here and the ebay desription was true- never used. Unpacked the camera and put my own nose grease on it immediately. I am sure that in very short time I will give it a patina.

The viewfinder is very large and bright bigger than that of any of my recent SLRs and any of my other rangefinders.

I have the Industar 61 on it and about to load some film for tomorrow.

Picture below.

[tedwhite]

Congratulations. Wow, that's a honker of lens. What's the focal length and max aperture?

Street shot time in old town...

Ted

[einolu]

Nice camera and the 61 actually looks nice on it (it looked horrible on all the russian cameras that featured it). As for view finders Im going to stick to squinty russian ones until I can afford a Bessa of my own.

[Fedzilla_Bob]

Congratulations. Wow, that's a honker of lens. What's the focal length and max aperture?

Street shot time in old town...

Ted

The Industar 61 is a 55mm lens and the max aperture is 2.8I have some filters on order for it Skylight and (would you believe) a polarizing filter. I like the way a polarizer can help saturate color.

Ah- Old town... There is a huge agave there. It may be raining Saturday. Fingers are crossed for good light. Also have job hunting to do. All I want to do is take the Bessa out and shoot.

[tedwhite]

To say nothing of all the people wandering about. And, with a 2.8, who cares if the light isn't so good. I shot some stuff in a coffee shop last week with a 21/4 Super Angulon on a trashed Leica M2 and they came out fine. Of course I had my elbows braced on the chair arms (1/4 second).

[Fedzilla_Bob]

To say nothing of all the people wandering about. And, with a 2.8, who cares if the light isn't so good. I shot some stuff in a coffee shop last week with a 21/4 Super Angulon on a trashed Leica M2 and they came out fine. Of course I had my elbows braced on the chair arms (1/4 second).
True about the people. Another nice area for shooting is down in the Gas Lamp. Also Balboa Park.