Bought a Konica Auto S2. What can I expect?

[Jeremy Z]

Hi fellas. I just bought greyhoundman's Konica Auto S2. I'm kind of excited, as many of you have praised this camera's lens & feature set.

For those with cameras for comparison:

How does it feel compared to a Yashica GS series camera? (handling, mechanics)
Compared to an Olympus SP?
Compared to a Canonet GIII?I believe I know of the features, just curious about how it feels, sounds, and performs compared to other benchmark FLRFs.

Thanks!

[yankeedoll]

Big as a Yashica GSN.
A little heavier.
No comparison to SP or GIII. It's lens is better, IMHO. And the meter works in manual.

[SolaresLarrave]

It is very nice camera... and since it's a Greyhound's Man job, you'll have a really neat tool. To make you drool... it's the closest thing to a Leica viewfinder I've seen in non-Leica cameras.

If I remember correctly, this one has a kind of AE system (you set the shutterspeed and the meter suggests or sets an aperture). I just can't recall it. I had one for a few months and liked it... but then, in terms of size, it was too big for me because the Canonet really spoiled me.

Which leads me to the comparison question. In regards to the Yashica, this one is about the same size, but in ergonomics it beats the Yashica fair and square. As for a Canonet comparison... the Canonet is actually small and cute; this one is large, not so cute, but very elegant. I think you picked the best of the lot. The Minoltas for sale are nice, but this one is efficient. Congratulations! :)

[thorirv]

greatness. nothing less!

[SolaresLarrave]

Yankeedoll is right! Unlike the Canonet, whose meter "dies" (it's actually turned off) when you switch it to manual, the meter in this Konica stays on.

Which reminds me: get a nice 55mm lens cap to keep the lens covered at all times. I'm not sure but I believe this is one of those that need a lens cap on always, when not in use.

Am I right, YD? :confused: Again, I had one of these for too short a time, and didn't use it enough either, but liked it nonetheless... <bigh sigh> :rolleyes:

[yankeedoll]

It will come with a lens cap. :)
It needs the cap to shut off the meter.

[KoNickon]

I'm awaiting the arrival of an S2 myself -- I had one and sold it but realized I should have one. One thing that will impress you is the viewfinder, specifically the framelines, which not only shift for parallax but also shift to show the change in the field of view as you change the focus toward infinity. Quite sophisticated, and I'm not sure what other cameras do this except one or two earlier Konicas. The focusing lever is actually a small cylindrical knob that spins; very comfortable and something that I'm not aware of any other camera having. You'll be very impressed with the lens; Konica optics, as I'm sure you know, are as good as anything else out there (a view not all share, I bet).

[vrgard]

And there is a meter display on top of the camera which is great for setting an exposure discreetly before raising the camera to your eye for framing & shooting. Enjoy it!

[shadowfox]

No comparison to SP or GIII. It's lens is better, IMHO. And the meter works in manual.

If the hexanon in it has the same quality as the hexanons in its descendants the Konica Auto S3, I have to disagree that it's "better" than the Zuiko on the Oly 35 SP.

I would say it's different.

The Hexanon is not super sharp like the Zuiko, but it has a very nice 3D effect (clear separation between fore and back-ground).

The GIII on the other hand is overrated, overpriced with mediocre performance. Before you ask, yes I have one and it's been CLA'd :)

[Jeremy Z]

Top deck meter
Nice viewfinder
Swivel focusing knob
Sharp lens
Heavier than a GSN (must be a TANK)Sounds like good stuff. Thanks!

[daniel~]

Congratulations! I'd just add that, your Auto S2 should come with a BUILT-IN lens hood--virtue seldom found on other RF. This Konica should be an excellent performer---I haven't bought one only because of its size & weight.

As for comparison with Canon and Olympus rangefinders, here's a bit of my experience: I own a Konica Auto S3 and absolutely love it. I also own a Canonet G-III and an Olympus RD--also very solid & attractive cameras, but their photo results don't quite impress me as those from Auto S3.

[Bingley]

As it happens, I was out shooting w/ my S2 this afternoon. It has a great viewfinder, in addition to a great lens. I'd also add that it has a pretty quiet shutter. It would make a great camera for street shooting.

[Jeremy Z]

Congratulations! I'd just add that, your Auto S2 should come with a BUILT-IN lens hood--virtue seldom found on other RF.
This one doesn't; the ad said it is missing. I'll find a screw-in one, if I can.

This Konica should be an excellent performer---I haven't bought one only because of its size & weight.People talk about this, but I dont' think it should be as much of a concern as it seems to be here, really. Today, if one favors a smaller camera, there are nice digitals available that make even our smallest 35mm cameras seem big & oafish. We think too much here. ;) (My post was a good example, I guess)

As for comparison with Canon and Olympus rangefinders, here's a bit of my experience: I own a Konica Auto S3 and absolutely love it. I also own a Canonet G-III and an Olympus RD--also very solid & attractive cameras, but their photo results don't quite impress me as those from Auto S3.Good stuff. One thing I'm getting about this camera pretty consistently is that it has an almost magical lens, viewfinder, and heft. Every camera (especially fixed lens RFs) have their own personality. Little details that make them stronger or weaker than others in certain areas. That is what I was looking for in this thread.

[Jeremy Z]

What about weaknesses? I've read elsewhere that it has a cheezy battery cap that strips easily. Anything else I should watch for?

[oftheherd]

If the hexanon in it has the same quality as the hexanons in its descendants the Konica Auto S3, I have to disagree that it's "better" than the Zuiko on the Oly 35 SP.

I would say it's different.

The Hexanon is not super sharp like the Zuiko, but it has a very nice 3D effect (clear separation between fore and back-ground).

The GIII on the other hand is overrated, overpriced with mediocre performance. Before you ask, yes I have one and it's been CLA'd :)


shadowfox
Zuikographer

I guess that says it all. :D :D

Konica lenses were always known to be super sharp in the orient amoung pros there. They just never got noticed elsewhere in their time. Sort of like Fujica lenses.

[raid]

I like the S2 a lot. Here are five shots taken on color film with the S2 last summer:

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=611665

[jkelly]

The Auto S2 is the only fixed lens rangefinder I own (I have 2 Leicas), but I like it a lot. I wish the auto exposure was aperture priority instead of shutter priority. And, the film advance lever makes a cheesy ratchety sound, which is totally unecessary and distracts from its stealth value. Other than that, no complaints whatever. Here's a landscape photo I took with it recently. I'm anxious to try some B&W film with it.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/182/413333864_3f58bbb248.jpg

[zuikologist]

Raid and J Kelly - nice shots.

Raid - resolution looks great, you can see the grains of sand in the beach shots

[shadowfox]

shadowfox
Zuikographer

I guess that says it all. :D :D

<cropped>
Hehehe... :cool:

But seriously, I am being objective here. The results from the Canonet is not as sharp and not as contrasty compared to the one from the Konica S3 or the Oly SP.

Back to the topic, here's one shot from the Konica S3:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/152/396132440_c0c168d9a1_o.jpg

[raid]

My Canonet has not been used in ten years or so. It looks too flimsy (plastics) for my taste.

Raid

[HansDerHase]

Just got a Revue Auto S22 (which is a rebranded Konica Auto S2; see here (http://www.erikfiss.com/foto/cams/konicas2/index.html)).

On arrival I was almost shocked by the size and weight of this thing. It's bulkier than my Sokol Automat, which I considered quite bulkie with its Industar-70 lens.

On the other hand. It feels very solid. And the moving framelines are just amazing. The Viewfinder of mine need some cleaning though.

After cleaning I'm looking forward to show the cutie a litte bit of my world..

[ChrisPlatt]

The Konica retractable hood is held on by a 55mm retaining ring
screwed into the filter thread, also threaded to accept 55mm filters.
No tools are required, which may account for so many that are missing.

Chris

[dgriff2]

I've shot with the Konica s2, oly 35 sp, and the yashica gsn. Hopefully these pictures will post in this message. All three produced excellent images, but to my eye, the konica and the oly have more contrast. This is definitely not a good comparison because when I took these, I knew absolutely nothing about rangefinders, and some were out of focus. In fact, I took quite a few pictures of the inside of my lens cap on the Oly.:o The Konica feels better in my hands because of it's size and weight (could be a weapon if needed). The Oly is a keeper, but I dislike having to keep it in it's case to turn the meter off. The Yashica is amazing as well, but the leds and the triangle shaped rangefinder patch turned me off. These shots were taken using the auto features of the cameras. I have checked them with my Minolta IVf and they are very close to one another. I had to see how they would come out on auto, sometimes in the quick of things, you don't have time to make a lot of adjustments.And that is my last $.02 worth tonight. Oh yea, film used was Kodak 200 color film, developed at (sic) Wal Mart. 1. The tomato plant shot is the yashica, 2. The flower bed shot is from the Konica Auto S2, 3. The big leaf philodendron is from the Olympus 35 SP. 44112

44113

44114

[SolaresLarrave]

Well, Jeremy... are you happier now? :)

[Jeremy Z]

Well, Jeremy... are you happier now? :)

Happy to have all the little tidbits & comparisons. Haven't received the camera yet. They may try to deliver it today, but I won't be in. Probably Monday.

[Jeremy Z]

I picked up the camera from the post office on the way home tonight. It is VERY nice.

Here is a shot of it, and links to more shots. (so as not to give slow page loads)

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q112/jzorns/Cameras/AutoS2_6.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q112/jzorns/Cameras/AutoS2_1.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q112/jzorns/Cameras/AutoS2_2.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q112/jzorns/Cameras/AutoS2_3.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q112/jzorns/Cameras/AutoS2_4.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q112/jzorns/Cameras/AutoS2_7.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q112/jzorns/Cameras/AutoS2_8.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q112/jzorns/Cameras/AutoS2_9.jpg

First Impressions:

Top deck light meter: AWESOME. This is one reason I really like my Rollei 35, it is a really nice feature.
Film advance lever has a very nice shape: nicer than the Yashicas; more natural.
The film advance ratcheting sound is louder than the Yashicas. It sounds rougher, but really isn't.
I like that they put the little plastic nub on the body underneath the film advance lever, so it doesn't dent the body up if the user lets it snap back. (I never do this)
Very nice viewfinder, on par with Yashica GS series.
Full manual: Advantage Konica
Lens coatings look state-of-the-art & better than Yashica. I'd bet this is one reason people like this lens so much; better coatings yield better contrast & less flare.
Takes an odd battery, but not as odd as Yashica! They're both easy to adapt to modern batteries. Any word as to whether this will run accurately on the wrong voltage, like the Yashica GS' will? I would think probably not. No biggie.
The shutter speed dial is great, as is the focus handle. But the aperture ring is hard to turn without disturbing the setting of the focus. The only FLRFs I've used that don't have this problem are the Olympus 35RC (because it has shutter speed on the top deck) and the Olympus 35SP. (because the rings are staggered diameters, with the smallest on the outside of the lens.) Konica put so much thought into so many things, but ultimately dropped the ball on this one detail.
The shutter release is very smooth. It has a long stroke, like the Yashica GS', and no stacking, also like the Yashica GS. I much prefer this over the short stroke with lots of stacking like the Canonet GIII has. (stacking is when it gets harder to press the further down you press the button)
DOF scale next to the focal distance is also an AWESOME feature. This, with the top deck light meter will make for an awesome grab shot camera.
Cold shoe. Can't have everything! (who needs a flash anyhow?)
The knurled focusing knob is a nice touch, but I kind of thought it rotated on its base. That would have been nice, but no biggie.
One nice thing about these big brutes is that they have normal size filter threads. I'll have no problem finding filters & lens caps for this!
I really like the size & heft. It is big enough to fill the hand, and feels a little less hollow than Yashica GS'.
Although it looks hokey in picures, the 'KONICA' in raised letters is very class in person. Much nicer, more subtle, and more subdued than a painted-on brand.
The battery cover is indeed cheezy.
The leather is nice & grippy, but not as classy as the more typical texture of the Yashica GS'.
The fit & finish are not quite as good on Yashica GS', but it is close!
The viewfinder doesn't show as much outside the frame as Yashica GS.
Yashica GS is still the low light king, with the lower shutter speeds available. (30 + seconds)
ASA only goes up to 400. Boo. I think they only had up to 400 film in those days. This was an amateur camera, so they didn't expect people to push or pull like Leica anticipated.Between the Konica Auto S2, Yashica GS and Olympus 35SP, here are some more comments:


Olympus SP has the best build quality, and the best mechanical feel. It also has the most well thought-out controls. The lens is probably also the sharpest of these three, but I'm sure they're close. It's slightly smaller, but just as solid. Still big enough for a tight four-fingered grip. Its metering is clumsy compared to the Konica, and especially to the Yashica. The SP also has the loudest and most vibey shutter. It is a punch in the face compared to the S2 and GS.
The Yashica GS is the best low light shooter and probably the easiest & quickest automatic shooter. Everything is nice. The fit & finish are the best of these three, but the Olympus mechanics feel nicer. The lens is less contrasty than Olympus and probably Konica due to the slightly inferior coatings. If this camera had an exposure compensation or manual mode, it would be near perfect. As-is, changing the ISO to bias this is finnicky. That tiny dial is hard to turn, especially in a hurry. The film advance feels a little "tin canny", but is actually very smooth & precise. Not as nice as the SP in this area. This one has the best frame lines. This one has the quietest shutter, as it is fully electronically timed. It has half as loud as that of the Konica, and the Konica's is quiet.
The Konica feels better in the hand than any of these. It has room for a full four-finger grip, and is a little less slick than the Yashica. The SP is a bit tight of a tight grip, and if you squeeze the Yashica, you can feel it flex a bit. This one also has the best yellow patch of these three. (they were all clean too) This one has great frame lines too. Not as roomy as Yashica. The SP's don't auto correct for parallax like the other two do.I haven't shot any film yet or even tested the meter, but I think I will like the metering system on the Konica better than the slower Olympus and the more electronic Yashica.

More later, it's time to turn in now.

[zuikologist]

Jeremy - thank you. A good summary. For my part, I prefer the SP to the GS for the smalller size and more manual control.

You might also be interested in the Yashica 35CC which is probably about the same size as the SP and feels better than the GS. It has an excellent 35/1.8 lens but only 1/250 top speed. The ergonomics are otherwise similar to the GS series.

[Bill58]

I used mine (S2) the other day w/ 100 color print film and I got great results.
However, a question--do you really have to put the lenscap on to turn off the meter?

Thanks,
Bill

[Jeremy Z]

I just checked the meter. I thought it was off, but then I remembered yankeedoll saying that it was calibrated for modern batteries. I popped an alkaline 625 in there, and it is on the money.

An anecdote from our household today:

We have a very spoiled doglet named Floyd. He's 1/2 Chihuahua, 1/2 Miniature Pinscher. Kate talks to him ALL the time. "Are you hungry Baby?" is a very common thing to hear around here. (and she's not talking to me)

So today, I had just finished developing a couple rolls of film from the GIII and had hung them up to dry.

Kate was laying in bed reading an anesthesiology textbook, and I walked by the S2 on my dresser and said: "Are you hungry baby? I'll feed you soon." (as soon as a wind up a roll of T-Max for you) That really got Kate, she had a good laugh.

It has a cheap nylon wrist strap on it that came with a Sears infrared thermometer I bought.

It has a (more or less) 12 exposure roll of TMY in it.

I used that one guy's trick (can't remember who at the moment) of shooting the first shot of the roll of myself in the mirror with the camera clearly visible. (so I can later ID which camera shot the roll just by looking at the negs) I can't wait to try this out tomorrow.

[SolaresLarrave]

Kate sounds like Frances, my wife. If I say something to either of our cats, she replies.

Man... a friend of mine recently bought a Contax G1, and now you have a Konica S2. I used to own both cameras, sold them to fund my addiction and now I'm feeling like I made a mistake. Moreso after seen the picture you posted in the previous page! :eek:

Heck, congratulations, Jeremy! :)

And if you ever sell it, I want first dibs! :)

[Jeremy Z]

When I bring this up to my eye, my trigger finger naturally falls to the shutter release, and my thumb falls naturally at the outside edge of the film advance lever.
Boy, do I like that top-deck meter! The analog needle is ever so much more classy & old-timey than the LEDs of the Yashicas. (though the LEDs are quicker & easier to see in darker locales, if it comes to that)
When I bring the camera up to my eye, the finder is right about where my eye expects it. The only two cameras that feel better at my eye are the Rollei 35 (since the finder is all the way at the left edge of the camera body) and the Olympus OM1n with the hot shoe removed. (since the prism tapers back to fit one's eye socket) Both of those cameras aren't as comfortable to hold as the S2 on account of their smaller size.
This camera makes all my others, with the exception of the Rollei 35, feel plasticky. The GIII has that nice, solid body, but the film transport mechanism feels plasticky & cheap by comparison. The Olympus 35RC feels REALLY cheap in comparison. The XA, less so. The Pentax K100D feels ultra-plasticky, which it is, but not cheap. The Yashica feels kind of ... hollow... in comparison. Not cheap, not plasticky, just a little hollow.

[ndnbrunei]

Jeremy, pleased to hear you like the S2.

Did it come with a case? If not, it is worth watching out for one so you can enjoy the 'total experience'. They are beautifully made and of a quality you don't see today.

I just found this thread, so I am a little late ... but I'll add that I find that the size of the S2 fits my hands quite well (I have big hands) and the weight gives you a very stable 'shooting platform'. By that, I mean the weight / mass offers an inertia that allows you to squeeze off shots at low shutter speeds without camera shake. With practice, I suspect you could probably push the lowest usable shutter speed below what is workable with other FLRFs. Anyone have experience with this? (I can only talk from experience with a Konica Auto S3 and a Yashica Electro 35 GSN).

Another dimension to the successful use of low shutter speeds comes from an observation of HCB's shooting technique. It seems he held his elbows out from his body rather than pushing them against his body when using lower shutter speeds. (saw this somewhere on the internet?).

Enjoy your camera! Post some pictures soon.

Andrew.

(thumbnails are from my S2 test film; taken at a Chinese temple in neighbouring Malaysia)

[Jeremy Z]

ndnbrunei, those second two pictures are pretty disturbing. What is the story behind them? It isn't the sort of thing I think of when I think "temple".

[ndnbrunei]

My understanding is that on the day of reconing, if your life is found wanting, this is where you will end up!

This temple is a little unusual in that it has these murals painted on the outside walls. After 15 years of travelling through SE Asia and parts of China ( i.e. when I have holidays) I have never seen art work like this anywhere else.

Outside the temple near the main entrance are two shelters / 'pagodas'. A black dog is tied to one and a white dog is tied to the other. Very yin and yang I presume. I have not seen this anywhere else either.

[Jeremy Z]

I hope you guys aren't getting tired of these, hehehe.

I brought the S2 to Chess Night yesterday night and shot some pix there. As expected, the top-deck meter & pre-focusing helped enormously with grab shots.

The camera feels so solid, I can't believe it. It probably isn't actually more solid than many other cameras I have, but it just feels that way. For example, it feels more solid than my OM1n, than my Nikon FM2n (when I had it). It is on par with Nikkormats and Canon FTbs from the 1970s. Ergonomically, the camera is perfect except for one thing: I still prefer the "correct" location of the shutter speed dial on the top deck, as on the Olympus RC and most 1970s SLRs. Having more than a focus & aperture ring on the lens makes it damned hard to adjust the camera while it is still at eye level.

Side thought No. 1: Nikon missed the boat with FLRFs. Just think of what we are missing because they skipped that genre! It's kind of like speculating what masterpieces Mozart might have written if he hadn't died at the tender age of 34.

Side thoguht No. 2: Even big, hulking RFs like the S2 can seem smaller than SLRs because of their reduced thickness. For example, my OM1n with 50 or 28mm lens is thicker than the S2, even though it isn't as tall. What this means is that it isn't comfy under a jacket as the behemoth S2.

[kellymjones]

Jeremy: I'm enjoying your tale of the ultimate rangefinder quest. Keep it up. My personal quest currently involves a hi-matic 7s, an old Zeiss Nettar folder, a Minolta Autocord TLR and an Oly 35RD. My Auto S2 has firmly secured itself as a go-to camera and is no longer in the quest stage. A camera I've come to rely on for everyday photography is a Minolta srT202 with an MD 50mm f1.4. It's not a rangefinder, but it's a nice reliable camera with a sharp lens and accurate meter. There's an Olympus XA in my future, but that will have to wait a month or two.

[shadowfox]

Jeremy, thanks for the thorough and slightly GAS-sy reviews. I was enjoying the read up until you said it feels more solid than an OM-1(n) ????

Wow!

Now I have to check it out to see for myself :)
Besides, the Konicas and their Hexanons are the only other cameras that caught and retain my attention with their results other than Olympus. I currently have a C35 and an Auto S3.

[Jeremy Z]

There's an Olympus XA in my future, but that will have to wait a month or two. This is going to seem like sacrilege to some, but I'm going to say it anyhow. The XA is a great little camera, but there is something about it that is just not satisfying. It is small. It has a nice sharp lens, Zuiko, f/2.8. It is a proper rangefinder and it is engineered supremely well. The aperture priority autoexposure bothers some, but since they recognized its limitations with a +1.5 overexposure switch, I can look past that. The shutter release is probably the best in the business, if you don't pound on it. (if you shake the camera at all when pressing THAT shutter release, it is "Operator Error" not camera fault)

But it is a tiny camera. The film advance wheel takes up probably 1/4 the space as a single-stroke advance lever. But tactilly-speaking, it isn't satisfying. Ditto with the shutter release. It just doesn't feel mechanical enough.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to part with mine; it's got too many good features. I'll use it too, but compared to a "proper" camera, it just leaves a bit of a sour taste in my grip.

So do get one, but don't expect it to be in the running for "ultimate".

[kellymjones]

So do get one, but don't expect it to be in the running for "ultimate".

It's all fun to me even if it doesn't turn out to be the "ultimate". Someday I would like to see a small digital with manual controls and manual focusing that doesn't involve navigating through a bunch of menus.

[bensyverson]

I have to disagree about the tactility of the XA. Obviously it's purely subjective, but to me, the XA has a great feel. The first thing all of my friends said when they first picked it up is "god, is it heavy!" Of course, it isn't very heavy, but it's rock solid compared to the plastic digicams people are used to using now. The weight makes it easy to keep steady for those 1/4th and 1/8th handheld shots.

I can operate the whole camera while looking through the viewfinder -- now that I'm used to where the F-stops are, I can flip to them extremely quickly using my right index finger. The rangefinder baselength is a bit short, which means you won't nail the focus on every shot, but the focus lever is conveniently located so that I can adjust it with my left index finger.

The shutter release is so smooth and quiet that people I'm photographing often say "did you take one yet?" It's so easy to trip it's almost telepathic. I just put my finger on the release, and just thinking about taking a picture trips the shutter. :)

[NickTrop]

As my fixed lens rangefinder collection has grown, I'm less inclined to pick up more. The XA - while I hear great things about it, never floated my boat. I went with the Konica S3 as my all black stealth shooter. The S2 would be on the list if I didn't have so many already. While I would like to see what that universally praised lens is capable of, the "all manual" FL itch was scratched with the Lynx 14e. The 1.4 + leaf shutter intreagued me. The Konica S2 or an RD or a Hi-Matic 7SII or an SP would be next on the list if I wasn't at the saturation point. Probably the Konica S2 would first on the "next" list.

But I have enough cameras ---- for now.