View Full Version : Why Leica charge $500 more in the US?
bluepenguin
04-11-2007, 14:56
Most of camera equipments in the US have a better price than Asia.
However does anybody know why Leica M8's price is $500 higher in the US?
US price: $4700~4800
Korea: $4200 (If you pay cash, it will go down to $4000)
Japan: $4750 (But there is 10% discount bonus ....)
Leicabug
04-11-2007, 18:26
Wow! It's hard to believe that Leica is selling M8 cheaper in Japan than in U.S.
grduprey
04-11-2007, 20:07
I suspect it has to do with import fees and what the market importer feels they can charge for the item. When I checked the prices in Germany last year they were much higher there than here.
Two Words: EXCHANGE RATES. The dollar is very sick and probably not getting better anytime soon. That's what happens when you borrow money from China so you can fight stupid wars.
Two Words: EXCHANGE RATES. The dollar is very sick and probably not getting better anytime soon. That's what happens when you borrow money from China so you can fight stupid wars.
woo, go us....but really, the m8 here is about 40000 yuan which is about the same as a down payment on a house or a small car at 5125 dollars, or 8 months of my salary...
Jim Watts
04-12-2007, 02:38
[QUOTE=bluepenguin]Most of camera equipments in the US have a better price than Asia.
However does anybody know why Leica M8's price is $500 higher in the US?
US price: $4700~4800QUOTE]
Still more than a $1,000 lower in the U.S. than the U.K. where they are £2990 or $5,910 at todays exchange rate.
ClaremontPhoto
04-12-2007, 02:42
Does the German price include sales tax (VAT)? This could be about 20%.
Does the German price include sales tax (VAT)? This could be about 20%.
It does and it is 19%, that's what you pay at Leica bei Meister in Hamburg.
So German price is about the same as US before tax, as prices in US are generally quoted without sales tax.
Then you pay more in the end as you live in a country where more tax is collected (hopefully) for the benfits of the people.
/Håkan
Pretty much the same as in Norway, approx 42500SEK incl 25% VAT ($6175 USD! :eek: )
$4900 is still a lot of money...
How big is your fund? :)
Sailor Ted
04-12-2007, 05:31
\Then you pay more in the end as you live in a country where more tax is collected (hopefully) for the benfits of the people.
/Håkan
Your kidding right?
shadowfox
04-12-2007, 07:58
That's what happens when you borrow money from China so you can fight stupid wars.
Wow, be careful there, unless you have a solution that is less stupid than wars AND are prepared to carry it out, don't bite more than you can chew... or digest.
In the U.S. if you buy via the internet or by phone or mail from a vendor in another state you are not charged any sales tax. This infuriates state officials and they are contantly proposing legislation to end this practice, but so far without success. Our Scandinavian friends must remember that the U.S. is not called konsument samhalle for nothing.
Kurt M.
Sailor Ted
04-12-2007, 19:33
we have free health care, free nursing homes etc etc.
Free?
http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/byprice.exclude.html
Norway retail price index 167, 100 represents average while Norway pays the highest prices for new cars in Europ link: http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_10005755.shtml
That said it's comforting to see how a responsible oil rich nation conducts it's self and how it cares for it's people.
Ted: Those CNN gas price figures are not quite comparable. What do you think the average income is in Caracas compared to Oslo? A quick google search revealed $240 and $53000 respectively, a difference of 220♦x. Hence, the Venezuelans pay almost 4 times as much as the Norwegians for gas...
IIRC, Norway has the cheapest gas in Europe when adjusted for income. Unfortunately the road network maintenance is not what it should be, nor is the health care. But I dare say that it is a lot cheaper and better than in Venezuela...
Sailor Ted
04-13-2007, 08:46
My point was nothing is free- nothing. Also, fuel is a commodity so adjusted for income has nothing to do with it from the perspective of a free market. Norway is taxing the hell out of its citizens to pay for programs people who make enough money do not take advantage of anyway. As you stated health care is not what it should be- do you think the Leica M8 crowd is having their cancer surgeries performed at the public clinic or from a private physician not covered under the umbrella of social medicine? It sounds like you first pay for free medicine and then you pay again when you go to your private clinic- not a great deal in my book.
BTW, what does an M8 cost in Norway, $6175? What about high-end audio components and cable compaired to the US or the rest of Europe? Amusingly someone stated the US cannot build even one good car a while back to which I followed what about the new Corvette? They responded that the Corvette is a rip off due to it’s cost in Norway- something approaching $200,000 USD as I recall. Cost in the US? $60,000. The fact is taxes in Norway are extremely high to pay for "free" programs.
Ted, we just found something else we can agree on. You're absolutely right. There's no free lunch. People seem to think stuff is free if their taxes pay for it. No government has any money of its own. Guess where it all comes from...
I like your M8 fund Håkan. How many Svesetas does a M8 cost in Sweden?
Hi, in Finland M8 is 4200 EUR (incl. 22% VAT). And we also have free shcools, health care etc. Just like in Sweden and Norway.:)
Stop comparing a tiny country like Norway with its measly population of 4.5million to a giant like the US.. It's much easier to manage a country like Norway.. Do we really care whether people in Luxembourg live a good life? No, because what they do there is insignificant
In most states w/sales taxes, residents are actually liable for sales/purchase taxes on items purchased from out of state. The problem is that those states have no easy way to collect it as they have to get out-of-state retailers to collect their taxes for them (hence the periodic proposals for a federal internet sales tax); some states rely on taxpayers to voluntarily pony up the cash in their annual income tax returns, w/understandably paltry results. Some retailers, like the on-line Apple Store for example, do routinely charge sales taxes even for out-of-state sales.
In the U.S. if you buy via the internet or by phone or mail from a vendor in another state you are not charged any sales tax. This infuriates state officials and they are contantly proposing legislation to end this practice, but so far without success. Our Scandinavian friends must remember that the U.S. is not called konsument samhalle for nothing.
Kurt M.
Sailor Ted
04-13-2007, 13:12
Population numbers for the worlds 50 most populated cities:
1. Tokyo, Japan - 28,025,000
2. Mexico City, Mexico - 18,131,000
3. Mumbai, India - 18,042,000
4. Sáo Paulo, Brazil - 17, 711,000
5. New York City, USA - 16,626,000
6. Shanghai, China - 14,173,000
7. Lagos, Nigeria - 13,488,000
8. Los Angeles, USA - 13,129,000
9. Calcutta, India - 12,900,000
10. Buenos Aires, Argentina - 12,431,000
11. Seóul, South Korea - 12,215,000
12. Beijing, China - 12,033,000
13. Karachi, Pakistan - 11,774,000
14. Delhi, India - 11,680,000
15. Dhaka, Bangladesh - 10,979,000
16. Manila, Philippines - 10,818,000
17. Cairo, Egypt - 10,772,000
18. Õsaka, Japan - 10,609,000
19. Rio de Janeiro, Brazil - 10,556,000
20. Tianjin, China - 10,239,000
21. Jakarta, Indonesia - 9,815,000
22. Paris, France - 9,638,000
23. Istanbul, Turkey - 9,413,000
24. Moscow, Russian Fed. - 9,299,000
25. London, United Kingdom - 7,640,000
26. Lima, Peru - 7,443,000
27. Tehrãn, Iran - 7,380,000
28. Bangkok, Thailand - 7,221,000
29. Chicago, USA - 6,945,000
30. Bogotá, Colombia - 6,834,000
31. Hyderabad, India - 6,833,000
32. Chennai, India - 6,639,000
33. Essen, Germany - 6,559,000
34. Hangzhou, China - 6,389,000
35. Hong Kong, China - 6,097,000
36. Lahore, Pakistan - 6,030,000
37. Shenyang, China - 5,681,000
38. Changchun, China - 5,566,000
39. Bangalore, India - 5,544,000
40. Harbin, China - 5,475,000
41. Chengdu, China - 5,293,000
42. Santiago, Chile - 5,261,000
43. Guangzhou, China - 5,162,000
44. St. Petersburg, Russian Fed. - 5,132,000
45. Kinshasa, DRC - 5,068,000
46. Baghdãd, Iraq - 4,796,000
47. Jinan, China - 4,789,000
48. Wuhan, China - 4,750,000
49. Toronto, Canada - 4,657,000
NORWAY
50. Yangon, Myanmar (Burma) - 4,458,000
Perhaps the reason it is easy to manage Norway is they did not have the option of a moron or a robot to run the show. And if you were paying up front for the piper, rather than using a credit card, you might notice the tax, we are noticing the tax.
Lux is ok too, real nice to visit, nice to work in.
Noel
in terms of how well/bad some place is governed, would it be better to compare Norway e.g. to State of Maine?
The Sc peoples are worried about global pollution, all the light bulbs are high efficiency, all the glasing triple, the typical auto runs on 85% C2H5OH (efficiently) and they have detected the Br C2H5OH is not earth friendly.
So no they are much better than us.
Noel
I can't really decide whether to take these last 10 posts seriously or not...
FWIW, the taxes are even higher in Denmark (4 million people) and Sweden (9 million) than here in Norway.
bluepenguin
04-13-2007, 21:30
Wow..
I guess all other places have high price for M8.... except Korea and Japan.
in terms of how well/bad some place is governed, would it be better to compare Norway e.g. to State of Maine?
HAHA tru dat, tru dat.
Thinking high about ourself are we? Its strange that a giant like the US cant even fix their own country. Just look at New Orleans? A year and a half after the disaster and Oprah has to get all her celebrity friends to do charity so that someone can restore the city. "Its much easier to manage a country like Norway"?. What do you know?
Things get harder when you say that you are fighting a war against terrorists and bring 14year old boys to a torture camp like Guantanamo. Magnum Photographer Paolo Pellegrin said after being in Guantanamo: "If they werent radicals before, they probably have become so in the prosess".
Hey keep the political spin out of the conversation okay? What kind of reasonable logic would compare the management of a 4.5 million population country against that of 300million+ country? hilarious.
Whatever man. Turn of Fox news and go explore the world or reed a book.
fact is, my argument makse sense, while there is no argument on the other side. It is obvious whose judgement is being convoluted by his political views. I have nothing against Norway, you're making me have second thoughts though.
Its strange that a giant like the US cant even fix their own country. Just look at New Orleans? A year and a half after the disaster and Oprah has to get all her celebrity friends to do charity so that someone can restore the city. "Its much easier to manage a country like Norway"?. What do you know?
Things get harder when you say that you are fighting a war against terrorists and bring 14year old boys to a torture camp like Guantanamo. Magnum Photographer Paolo Pellegrin said after being in Guantanamo: "If they werent radicals before, they probably have become so in the prosess".
EDIT:
On second thought, lets play your game. Norway is run so well huh? Yeah it's great that the government creates a national economy based on a non-renewable natural resource. It'd be interesting to see how they keep up all the freebies when the oil wells are sucked dry.
fact is, my argument makse sense, while there is no argument on the other side. It is obvious whose judgement is being convoluted by his political views. I have nothing against Norway, you're making me have second thoughts though.
I'm stunned ... do your job please mods!:)
A Leica M8 is 42500 swesetas. It sorts of annoys me that we have to pay about 10x euro price, when the exchange rate is more like 9x. Ripped off 10% just becuase the majority here thinks Euro is not good, even though the currency more of less follows the Euro...
My Leica M8 account has been quite steady for a long time. I managed to start saving, then I felt a desire to buy Photoshop CS2 and a continous flow system for my B&W printer... I have not fully recovered from that yet.
At the moment I am more thinking about using that fund for something else. I am not really sure I want a Leica M8 after all. I kind of prefer working with film.
Regarding taxes and such, well I hope the money is sort of well used and that everyone can have decent social welfare whether they have a job or not.
/Håkan
Hi, in Finland M8 is 4200 EUR (incl. 22% VAT). And we also have free shcools, health care etc. Just like in Sweden and Norway.:)
[...] EDIT:
On second thought, lets play your game. Norway is run so well huh? Yeah it's great that the government creates a national economy based on a non-renewable natural resource. It'd be interesting to see how they keep up all the freebies when the oil wells are sucked dry.
That's why they don't cut down the taxes to 0 but stack the money from the oil industry in the Norwegian Government Pension Fund, currently at $350 billion. Considering that this fund is about 40% larger than the Californian pension fund (CalPERS) and the population is 1/8 of California's, I think Norway should be pretty well off for a long time post-oil...
Ronald M
04-14-2007, 03:28
Right on Ted.
Government is the modern Robin Hood
hmm Looks that I need to find a better place to live.... too many taxes and no benefits...
Hey keep the political spin out of the conversation okay? What kind of reasonable logic would compare the management of a 4.5 million population country against that of 300million+ country? hilarious.
Per capita calculations of life expectancy and standard of living would.
Or are you going to reveal on us that China's better run just by the virtue of overpopulation?
Gabriel M.A.
04-14-2007, 09:23
Norway is taxing the hell out of its citizens to pay for programs people who make enough money do not take advantage of anyway.
This is the logic that escapes me. If you pay $1.00 for bus fare, are you going to calculate how much that dollar actually stretches for 100% of the ride, and if you're not going to "take advantage" of 100% of the bus ride, will you demand a pro-rated refund of that $1.00? If you buy a Big Mac combo, and you only eat half the fries and threw away half the lettuce, are you going to ask for a partial refund? Whether you use something available to you when your social contract says it's available to you as you've paid it...it's up to you...
Taxes for a responsible government are for the distribution of resources among the population. When government becomes irresponsible and convinces its population that they ought to pay only what they use, forget the poor, not care about education for children they don't have, not repair roads they don't use, and not clean air they don't breathe, and start counting their pennies while they run up a magical credit card to keep the Ottoman Turks from storming the walls of Vienna, we have lost all sense of civic responsibility and duty and more concerned with our own powerless wallet.
Reality is, after you do the math (and I've compared stubs from friends over there, and mine, and trust me, it's stomach-wrenching), there really isn't much difference left between what's deducted from a middle-class level paycheck in the U.S. from that in France, U.K., or the Nordic countries. There is, however, a much more discernible difference in their quality of life, transportation infrastructure, social interaction, and politicians' accountability.
I'll pay the extra $200 a year. It's worth the $5000 otherwise.
Per capita calculations of life expectancy and standard of living would.
Or are you going to reveal on us that China's better run just by the virtue of overpopulation?
I repeat - Norway's economy is entirely that of the oil which it sits on. It is government managed and requires no input from its citizens. Norwegian government can save and build the funds all they want but it is a finite resource none the less. If Norway has a short outlook on the future, then this plan is great. However, I think most countries will take a pass on that, and would rather prefer an economy based on diversification and the resourcefulness of its own people.
I think that you was pretty condescending in the first post I reacted on and that is why I reacted the way I did. When you use strong words like tiny, measly, giant and insignificant you are acting like a man that doesnt know that there is another world outside of his own country.
My post was not intended to be condescending but just to emphasize my point that people were comparing a country with small population like Norway to a much larger population of the U.S. It's an apple vs. orange comparison on many levels. I never thought that saying "Hey your country has low population!" is hurtful.
I repeat - Norway's economy is entirely that of the oil which it sits on. It is government managed and requires no input from its citizens. Norwegian government can save and build the funds all they want but it is a finite resource none the less. If Norway has a short outlook on the future, then this plan is great. However, I think most countries will take a pass on that, and would rather prefer an economy based on diversification and the resourcefulness of its own people.
Oil is a finite resource, we all agree on that, but are loans from the Chinese government an infinte resource? I doubt that...
footnoteblog
04-14-2007, 13:34
This opinion does not reflect some of ours here.
Stop comparing a tiny country like Norway with its measly population of 4.5million to a giant like the US.. It's much easier to manage a country like Norway.. Do we really care whether people in Luxembourg live a good life? No, because what they do there is insignificant
Anyway, I'd like to know how it works out with comparable situations:
a) U.S., average income for a photographer in a similarly populated city, cost of M8, cost of Big Mac (gross), and the cost of a bottle of water, and a mortgage on a comparable house, and general personal income tax rate; or whatever financial gauges people use to compare person to person.
b) repeat with other countries, in U.S. dollars.
Then, at least we'd have a gist of what it really costs.
NIKON KIU
04-14-2007, 13:53
I love how these M8 theads turn into arguments about Taxes and population!
You guys NEED a Nikon SP limited ;)
Kiu
Oil is a finite resource, we all agree on that, but are loans from the Chinese government an infinte resource? I doubt that...
You're avoiding the point of the argument. The source of the U.S. economy is not based on finite elements. It is diverse and can change with the time. Loans suck, but as long as you can produce enough cash to pay it back, then it's okay.
You're avoiding the point of the argument. The source of the U.S. economy is not based on finite elements. It is diverse and can change with the time. Loans suck, but as long as you can produce enough cash to pay it back, then it's okay.
In the year of 2000, oil and gas accounted for 46% of Norwegian exports. In 2007 it is likely more, mostly due to your country driving oil prices through the roof.
So, nearly half of the exports in 2000 were non-renewable natural resources, but there's still the other half, not bad for a nation with as you say tiny population of 4.5 million, considering the overwhelming volume of oil exports.
Victory is yours. I have added both to my ignore list. Have a good day.
gents. lets learn something from this (me incl.), clear those ignore lists, and let this thread sink deep into sea of oblivion?
footnoteblog
04-14-2007, 22:55
Anyone? At least I'm on topic... :P
...
Anyway, I'd like to know how it works out with comparable situations:
a) U.S., average income for a photographer in a similarly populated city, cost of M8, cost of Big Mac (gross), and the cost of a bottle of water, and a mortgage on a comparable house, and general personal income tax rate; or whatever financial gauges people use to compare person to person.
b) repeat with other countries, in U.S. dollars.
Then, at least we'd have a gist of what it really costs.
foo...
I dont think a survey will help you, when I was last in US and tried walking across the road to the ('Irish') bar opposite the hotel, the lobby staff ordered a taxi instead, - they were quite insistent, (StLouis), they could tell we were aliens from our strange english, and quaint sucidal ways.
When I was last in Sc the ladies on bikes nearly killed me each time I stepped off the walkway on to the cycle lanes for a 1/100 Zorkiness, if they missed me with a pedal they were going to get me with a Stilleto (they were all dressed to 'the nines' including the pointy high heels), the Ladies were used to photogs, they did not even bother with a bell, just a quick sway, their 1st pram was a tricycle.
There were Big Macs most towns/off road stop areas, but we eat in Sc style cafes as their food was nicer, and we can get a Big Mac anywhere.
Beer was >>$, 2nd hand cameras astronomical a 2nd hand Ru panoromic was 3X(!), and all the gas stations with high turnover were required to sell high % C2H5OH for the 'gas tank'.
It was a different world from the UK, recc for a holiday break before the $ slides some more - the whole point, the exchange rate and how they spend money are both variables.
In the UK the tap (faucet) water is frequently better than the bottled water, very few people drink Bud.
Noel
gents. lets learn something from this (me incl.), clear those ignore lists, and let this thread sink deep into sea of oblivion?
How about we close this for a cooling off period. I can reopen it in a bit once we all calm down.
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