Colorskopar 28mm Vs Ultron 28mm

[Fabri970]

Hi,

i want to buy a 28mm for my R2 ( and soon my R4A), i'm undecided if buy the Ultron or the color Skopar.

For the Ultron there's the largest aperture and the fastest 28mm on the market.

The color skopar is more little and more slow , only 3.5, i prefer the size of the Skopar but only 3.5 is that the stop me from purchase.....

I've seen a lot of shots and the quality of color skopar has impress me , i'll thought that the Ultron was better but i'm not really sure......

Please give me your opinions.

[back alley]

i've seen some very nice shots from the slower 28 but the ones that knock my socks off are usually from the 1.9

[nightfly]

If you don't mind the size get the faster one.

For me the faster one is just over the line for too big although I'd like a fast 28.

The slower lens, which I currently own, is really small and well built. Short focus throw and very easy aperture adjustment make it a great street lens. It's slightly more contrasty than I might like for black and white, but otherwise, no complaints. It really pops with color slide film.

[summilux]

the 28/3.5 is discontinued, just announced by cosina.

[dostacos]

I have the 28 and I use it alot when I might be needing the extra stops, otherwise i will use the 35MM classic or go wider and use the 21, I am looking forward to the new coupled 25.....

[BrianPhotog]

The 28 Ultron is my favorite lens and sits on my R2a most of the time. It's not really the extra speed but the way it renders images (tones). The only "downside" is the size and the hood that no lenscap will stay on (although it looks cool).

I have a more in-depth review about it at: http://www.cosina-voigtlander.com/content/view/33/28/

[Ken Ford]

I've owned both - I had the 28/3.5 for several months, but found it too slow for what I was trying to do (night shooting). I sold it and bought a 28/1.9 and have been very happy with it.

I had no issues with the Skopar beyond the speed - the build and image quality were both exemplary. However, the Ultron has something more - I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's an amazing lens. It really isn't very large at all IMO.

[Ken Ford]

I've owned both - I had the 28/3.5 for several months, but found it too slow for what I was trying to do (night shooting). I sold it tp buy a 28/1.9 and have been very happy with my decision.

I had no issues with the Skopar beyond speed - the build and image quality were both exemplary. However, the Ultron has all that and something more - I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's an amazing lens. It really isn't very large at all IMO.

[Fabri970]

Thank's to all for the replies...

I'll use the 28mm when the 21mm is to wide and the 35mm not much , i shot only Black & white and the most part of my shots 're made in street where there'is not light , like narrow street in the old town of Genoa, and here the f1.9 it's very convenient, the only thing that let me confused is the size....

I've already the Nokton , is the Ultron bigger than the Nokton?

[BrianPhotog]

I've already the Nokton , is the Ultron bigger than the Nokton?No, it's not. :)

[oscroft]

the 28/3.5 is discontinued, just announced by cosina
Oh dear, where did you hear that?

[Fabri970]

My fear is that with R4A the Ultron takes up a lot of the viewfinder and this concern me.....

Someone have already try the couple?

[BrianPhotog]

My fear is that with R4A the Ultron takes up a lot of the viewfinder and this concern me.....

Someone have already try the couple?
Yeah, I have the same fear...especially since the 28 Ultron is my favorite lens. I wrote my thoughts down in an article (Re)Considering the R4 (http://www.cosina-voigtlander.com/content/view/39/1/).

[Huck Finn]

I've already the Nokton , is the Ultron bigger than the Nokton?

Which Nokton?

The 28 Ultron is longer than the 50 Nokton, but the Nokton is slightly wider. The 35 Nokton is much bigger than either of them.

The Zeiss ZM 28/2.8 Biogon offeres a compromise. Much smaller than the CV 28 Ultron (which is basically an f/2 lens), but not as slow as the CV Skopar. It is of course in a different price range than these.

[BrianPhotog]

Which Nokton?

The 28 Ultron is longer than the 50 Nokton, but the Nokton is slightly wider. The 35 Nokton is much bigger than either of them.

The Zeiss ZM 28/2.8 Biogon offeres a compromise. Much smaller than the CV 28 Ultron (which is basically an f/2 lens), but not as slow as the CV Skopar. It is of course in a different price range than these.
The 28 is only slightly longer then the 50 (exaggerated by the hood), but the difference in diameter is more noticeable.

[rpsawin]

If you find the Ultron too big (and it is a beast, but a real beauty as well) you might consider the Konica 28/2.8. It's a very well built, compact lens that performs very, very well. And the additional stop makes it very useful.

Bob

[RayPA]

I've got both, and like both a lot. The build quality is great. Because I prefer shooting on the street, the one that ends up on my camera(s) more often is the slower 28/3.5. The size is incredible, combined with a CLE or even an Leica body it is very light and pretty much pocketable. It doesn't seem as contrasty as the 35/2.5, either (my other "street" lens).

The 1.9 is really a beautiful lens, too. I like the 28 FL, so it was easy for me to justify both lenses based on the speed difference. I've several 28/3.5 shots in my Flickr gallery. Here's one:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/132/356000829_f131578645.jpg?v=0

.

[rover]

My fear is that with R4A the Ultron takes up a lot of the viewfinder and this concern me.....

Someone have already try the couple?

I screwed my 28 Ultron on the R4a again this morning.

The lower right quarter of the 28mm area in the finder is effected by the Ultron. I estimate that with the standard hood on 2/3 of this quarter is blocked, without the hood 1/2 is blocked.

[ferider]

Like Ray, I have both, they are both very good. Beside speed, there is a significant difference
in color rendering, the 28/3.5 has more punch when compared to the 1.9. 28/3.5 + CLE is a great combo !

A 3.5 shot:

http://ferider.smugmug.com/photos/11876432-L.jpg

A 1.9 shot:

http://ferider.smugmug.com/photos/68973548-O.jpg

If you replace the 1.9 hood with a simple filter ring, it is quite compact.

Here are flickr collections for the two lenses:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/86731438@N00/pool/tags/VoigtlanderUltron28mmf1.9Aspherical
http://www.flickr.com/groups/86731438@N00/pool/tags/VoigtlanderColor-Skopar28mmf3.5

Best,

Roland.

[RayPA]

Wow, Roland. Beautiful samples/examples!

Good point on the color saturation. I'm finding that, and maybe this is the world's biggest forehead-smacking-duh!, the Color Skopars are great for color photography. I think I prefer shooting color with my 35/2.5.


.

[vrgard]

Ray & Roland, once again you guys have humbled me. Ray, your street shot with the framing of the woman in the truck is a great shot. And Roland, that reflective sunset shot is simply amazing. I need to hang around you guys more and hope that some of your magic rubs off on me! And now I've gotta get one of those CV 28/3.5 lenses for my CL (anybody out there listening?).

-Randy

[ferider]

Thanks a lot, guys !

[Fabri970]

Thank's for the replies and the beautiful images.

I think that i'll buy the small one, it'has a great image quality and ,more important is not too big, i've already the Nokton , it's a great lens but for me too big, i don't want another fat brother.

[Doug]

Hope you like the 3.5/28 Color Skopar; it's a gem! I sold mine because I was doing interiors and needed more speed. I still have the 4/25mm which I think is the same size, and just put it on the Bessa 4 (which arrived today) to check viewfinder intrustion. With the frame switch set to 21/35mm, the edge of the 25's little hood just touches the lower right corner of the 35 frame, and (switching to the 28 frame) sticks into the 28mm frame only a little.

The location of the Bessa's VF window closer to the lens results in more VF intrusion than with the CLE and Zeiss Ikon for instance because those two have the VF notable farther from the lens centerline. More parallax, less intrusion...

The Leica 2.8/21mm, even without the hood, SERIOUSLY blocks the lower right quarter of the R4's 21mm framelines. I am leaving the hood off and the accessory finder on top for now, and I'll see how it goes. I'm sure the new 21mm Skopar will stay out of the view much better!

[nightfly]

Get it quick. They just stopped making them. (See numerous other threads from today)

Not sure if they are coming out with a new "M" mount equivalent. Personally I'd love to see something around 2.8 (or faster if possible) that retains the small size. Otherwise I'll probably save for the new Leica ASPH Elmarit. Seems like the best compromise between size and speed although cheap for a Leica product, it's still many times the cost of anything CV makes.

[ferider]

Get it quick. They just stopped making them. (See numerous other threads from today)

Not sure if they are coming out with a new "M" mount equivalent. Personally I'd love to see something around 2.8 (or faster if possible) that retains the small size. Otherwise I'll probably save for the new Leica ASPH Elmarit. Seems like the best compromise between size and speed although cheap for a Leica product, it's still many times the cost of anything CV makes.

A new small M-mount CV 28/2.5, wouldn't that be cool ?

:)

[vrgard]

A new small M-mount CV 28/2.5, wouldn't that be cool ?

:)

Would be very cool. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

-Randy

[nightfly]

Me too if they could keep the size down.

In another thread Stephen Gandy said that the 28/3.5 wasn't selling that well. However it seems like they probably could do with another 28 since most of their line has multiple versions of common focal lengths. I would guess perhaps the 28/3.5 wasn't selling well because people figured that if they were going to take such a hit on speed, they might as well buy the 25mm/4. Just guessing here but a 28/2.4-2.8 or so, if they could make it more like the small Summicron style lens rather than the bigger SLR style Ultron, would probably do really well in M mount.

Perhaps this is just wishful thinking.

[Tom A]

I have had the 28/3.5 and the 28/1.9 since they came out. The 28/3.5 is one of the best black/white lenses i have ever used! There is a quality to the images that is different from the f1.9 nokton and the Z1 28/2,8 and the leica 28's.
If you do a lot of low-light shooting the speed can be a problem, but the R4 is smooth enough that you can handhold down to 1/15 with little or no problem. The Nokton 28/1,9 is bigger and i find myself using it less and less. It is a match for the Summicron 28, except when wide open when the corners appear slightly soft. On the R4 you will find that the 28/1,9 does show up in the finder, whilst the 28/3,5 is virtually invisible there1
To put it in perspective, I have 1 28/1,9, 1 ZI 28/2,8, 1 Elmarit 28/2,8 (from 1980 and still a remarkably good lens) and three (3) 28/3,5! One is black, one is chrome and one is in Nikon Rf mount!.
The difference between a 2.8 and a 3,5 in size makes the 3.5 very attractive and in most cases the 1/2 stop speed will not be a problem. The step from a 3.5 to a f1.9 ( let's face it, it is most likely a f2!) does give you some latitude with speeds, but it is a lens big enough to attract attention when you shoot in the streets.
The 28/3,5 looks too small to be "significant" and most bystanders ignore it! Same thing with the 21/2,8's from ZI and Leica. The 21/4VC attracts little attention from the surrounding people and just like the 28/3,5 " packs a punch".

[RayPA]

...The 28/3.5 is one of the best black/white lenses i have ever used! ....

I can get behind this, especially with the "disclaimer" (one of the best). ;) It has a very nice/different quality, especially when compared to the 35/2.5, which by comparison seems almost harsh.

:)

[oscroft]

In another thread Stephen Gandy said that the 28/3.5 wasn't selling that well
I suspect that's because the 25/4 is excellent and so much cheaper (especially as it includes a viewfinder) - most people have gone for that instead, and can't justify having (or simply don't want) both.

[Avotius]

just get the 1.9 and be done with it, the small lens, while yes its very small, can be fumbly to use

[nightfly]

Fumbly to use?

You have got to be kidding. That 3.5 is my favorite street lens because it is so damn quick to use. The aperture ring moves very quickly and smoothly with little effort and the little focus knob and short throw make it so easy to use.

I actually think the image quality for black and white is a little contrasty and I prefer my 35mm Summicron, rendition wise, but for ease of use and that 28mm field of view it's awesome. The reason I'm entertaining thoughts of the new Leica Elmarit is due to the fact that that little bit faster might be all I need and I think the image rendition might be a little smoother but that's a guess at this point.

[biomed]

Just received the 28/3.5 Skopar. It pairs beautifully with the R4M.

Mike

[Huck Finn]

I suspect that's because the 25/4 is excellent and so much cheaper (especially as it includes a viewfinder) - most people have gone for that instead, and can't justify having (or simply don't want) both.

Then why did they discontinue the 25/4?

[nightfly]

Because they came out with a rangefinder coupled M mount version.

This is the direction they are going to match the new R4's.

[Huck Finn]

Because they came out with a rangefinder coupled M mount version.

This is the direction they are going to match the new R4's.

Ahhh . . . but now you lose the economic advantage over the 28/3.5. No finder included with the new 25/4 P & the price of the new lens is much higher than the 28/3.5 ($380 for the 25/4 P vs $330 for the black 28/3.5 & only $285 for the silver version). And you can use the 28/3.5 with built-in frame lines on more cameras than the 25/4 P. Not to mention the superior build quality of the 28/3.5 - one of the best in th CV line-up (but I won't mention it). ;) If the 25/4 was the reason for lagging sales of the 28/3.5, I doubt that it will be any more.

My hunch is that the stellar reputation of the 28/1.9 plus its speed advantage was the greater competition to the 28/3.5. However, I agree with your earlier post, with RayPA, & with Tom A that the 28/3.5 has great features. It is an underappreciated lens IMHO.

[0bli0]

i bet we do see a lower profile 28 in the not too distant future. i love the 28 3.5 - it just rocks on the street . it's contrasty, sharp, and quick to use.

i don't mind it with the lh-1 on the r4a. sure it covers quite a bit of the finder, but for snapshot on the street there is still so quick to frame and go.

[back alley]

don't forget you need a $55 adapter on the old lens, huck, to make it work on an m mount camera.

[Revolucion Artistico]

It says on Cameraquest that the 28 skopar was discontinued this month. This is news to me. Anybody know anything about this.

[Nokton48]

Well I've had the 1.9 for a while, IMO it's simply great. Been thinking about picking up a 3.5 to have a choice of "looks" in this incredibly useful focal length. Also fits well size-wise on my L's.

[0bli0]

yes it was discontinued. it's been discussed in a few other threads - including the one posted by Stephen.

[Huck Finn]

don't forget you need a $55 adapter on the old lens, huck, to make it work on an m mount camera.

True enough, but that still leaves the silver version at only $340 - still much cheaper than the 25/4 P. The black version with the adapter is about the same cost as the 25/4 P, so no price advantage there either. Unless you have an M4 or use the full finder to estimate, you're also faced with the additional cost of a $125 auxiliary finder for the 25/4 P on all other RF cameras.

[Huck Finn]

It says on Cameraquest that the 28 skopar was discontinued this month. This is news to me. Anybody know anything about this.

I think that Nightfly hit the nail on the head. I'm guessing that they'll gradually replace all of the screw mount lenses with M-mount versions. There's no point to keeping the old mounts now that they no longer make an LTM-mount camera. I'm sure that it makes their manufacturing process more efficient & with the introduction of a new product, they can raise the prices. Sounds like a win-win for them.

[nightfly]

I always buy cheap generic adapters from the B and H used department and have never run into any trouble. I think the Leica guy there gave me the 28 I'm using because it was around and not marked in the inventory system and they were about to close. Never noticed any focusing problems or anything.

[dostacos]

True enough, but that still leaves the silver version at only $340 - still much cheaper than the 25/4 P. The black version with the adapter is about the same cost as the 25/4 P, so no price advantage there either. Unless you have an M4 or use the full finder to estimate, you're also faced with the additional cost of a $125 auxiliary finder for the 25/4 P on all other RF cameras.

but the new 25 is also coupled, and that is the feature that tips the scales, that and the fact that I am using the R4M

[Huck Finn]

but the new 25 is also coupled, and that is the feature that tips the scales, that and the fact that I am using the R4M

Enjoy the 25, Dan. :)

I wasn't trying to make the case that the 28/3.5 is better than the 25/4 . . . Rather, I just don't think that competition from the 25/4 accounts for the reported lagging sales of the 28/3.5.

[Fabri970]

Before to buy the CV 28mm color skopar i'm lokking in the used equipment and i've found a CV 25mm old version with viewfinder at a very interesting price, very strange here in Italy !!, but i've fear to have some problems with the sharpen, it's not rangefinder coupled.

Who 's your experience? :)

[Richard Black]

I do not think you will have sharpness problems with the 25mm. It is zone focus and from the examples shown on this site, it is sharp. The 28 is also sharp and has greater contrast than some may like. I do, it is my favorite lens in my r/f collection.

[lawrence]

I have both the 28m Ultron and the Color-Skopar. I haven't used the Ultron that much so won't comment but the C-S is absolutely brilliant. Certainly the focussing is smoother than the Ultron, which is a bit stiff, and the quality is superlative, with wonderful sharpness corner-to-corner even wide open. My recommendation is to get both if you can and use the Ultron when you really must have the speed but otherwise stick with the C-S. BTW, I only shoot B&W and the negs are beautiful. It's a much nicer lens than the flimsy, contrasty 35mm f2.5 'Classic', which I sold.

[MISH]

Before to buy the CV 28mm color skopar i'm lokking in the used equipment and i've found a CV 25mm old version with viewfinder at a very interesting price, very strange here in Italy !!, but i've fear to have some problems with the sharpen, it's not rangefinder coupled.

Who 's your experience? :)
i have the CV25 and it is a wonderfully sharp lens (i only shoot B&W) don't worry about it not being rangefinder coupled as it has click stops on the focus and by the time you raise the camera you can have the focus set and you will only have to look through the framing viewfinder and not the rangefinder making it superfast for street photography. i can't say enough how happy i am with this system. with all the great comments here on 28mm 3.5 i think i will have to be buying my self one for my birthday in june (in the Contax mount my 25 is LTM) this is the kind of info i look forward to here at RFF i will have to go back and check but i think my avatar was shoot with the 25mm