View Full Version : If I were to buy a TLR...
What would you recommend? I'm a complete novice about this camera but I love the way they look and the idea of a large negative appeals to me. I don't want to break the bank and I generally like wide angle lenses (but not too wide 35mm for 35mm). I would appreciate your recommendations (my wife's going to kill me!).
Cheers,
Alex
Wayne R. Scott
04-03-2007, 05:51
Minolta Autocord.
Wayne
KoNickon
04-03-2007, 06:07
Alex, these cameras are a lot of fun, indeed. You will enjoy using them. But you should be aware that other than the Mamiya TLRs, which have interchangeable lenses, and the very rare and expensive Rolleiwide, these cameras' lenses are the 35mm equivalent of 50mm or thereabouts.
Of course the Rolleiflexes are great cameras to get -- but I sense from your note that your wife won't be happy with you spending a lot of money. So I won't even suggest those. Instead, here are a few worth considering, all of which have excellent lenses, 4-element Tessar-type designs, and which should be pretty reasonably priced:
Yashicamat 12, 124, or 124G -- the latter two have a meter, but that isn't critical; most folks use handheld meters. These have the film/shutter cocking crank, which is very quick to use (Rollei pioneered this). Focusing knob on the opposite side.
Minolta Autocord -- wind/cocking crank; focusing lever below the lens.
Ricoh Diacord -- focusing levers on either side of the lens (very convenient). Knob film wind and separate shutter cocking lever.
Yashica D -- later models with Yashinon lens (NOT the Yashikor). Focusing knob and film wind knob; separate shutter cocking lever.
Rolleicord V, Va, Vb -- similar features to the Yashica D. Rolleicords have a lever below the lens that you push one way to cock the shutter, then pull back the other way to trip the shutter. A little odd but you get the hang of it.
A bright image on the focusing screen is a real benefit when using a TLR. Having a fresnel screen makes a difference; also, having a wider aperture viewing lens makes a big difference too. The best of this list in this regard are the Yashicamats and D, and the Autocord.
In terms of build quality, the Rolleicords and the Autocord are best, but the others are good too. Yashicas have been known to have problems with frame overlap -- the film transport gearing isn't the best. But many people use them with no problems.
In terms of an overall combination of build and picture quality and ease of use, I'd recommend the Autocord, but you can't go wrong with any of them.
I'm going to suggest a minolta autocord or a ricoh diaflex. And I'd suggest contacting Karl Bryan--his specialty is autocords. For between $100-$200, he can outfit you with a CLA'd auto or diacord. The autocord has a better reputation mechanically than the ricoh, but the ricoh has a great focusing system. Both have excellent optics comparable to the Rolleiflex tessar or xenar--which is very nice indeed.
Karl can be reached at kabkos2 <karl.kathy@verizon.net>
This thread continues this conversation, too: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22832
My second choice would be a Rolleicord. I'd go with a III myself (that's what I have...well made and simple) but IVs can be great, V's are starting to get pricey. Again, buying from someone who sells them CLA'd is a good idea, better than the Ebay roulet, try Mark Hansen, the Karl Bryan of Rolleiflex/Rolleicords (or is the other way around?) They both know each other and are great to deal with, I personally recommend them!
Mark is at FastCombat@aol.com
cheers
doug
c
I'd say go straight for a Rollei. You'll want one eventually.
I have a Rolleicord III and it's great. The Rolleiflex Automat didn't suit me. I'm not so keen on the other brands of TLR. I'm just a Rollei-snob in this dept :)
Joe Vitessa
04-03-2007, 06:27
Yeah, I'd place another vote for the Minolta Autocord. It's a pleasure to use, the price is right and the images from a clean specimen are wonderful. The Rolleicords have focusing screens that are just too dim. The Yashica 124G has the best out-of-box screen, but the Autocord has the superior build quality--and a very usable screen.
The Rolleiflex is the Leica of TLR's.
pesphoto
04-03-2007, 06:42
"(my wife's going to kill me!)"
What you need to do is rent yourself a tiny, cheap apartment where you can have your stuff shipped to. I guess you could store them there also.
Hmmm...maybe I need to do this too.
Pherdinand
04-03-2007, 06:46
You like wides...
Then i suggest a Mamiya Cxxx, preferably a 330(f) but 33, 220 or 22 will do as well, and get a 65mm or even an 55mm lens with it (the black version).
They are a bit big and heavy, though.
Hey, what about the GOWLAND TLR?? :D
http://www.petergowland.com/camera/CameraPageImages/GlamourCamera4x5.jpg
THAT'S what I'm after next :D
ibcrewin
04-03-2007, 07:16
If you want to get something that is cheap.. I say go Lubitel 2!
In some respects it's a total POS. But at $20bucks a pop. you can't go wrong.
Not exactly the greatest scan but I'm pretty happy with the prints.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/163/439289714_862d866e1b.jpg?v=0
Well ibcrewin, you certainly couldn't do worse than a lubi, but other than the occasional cool-look of the cheap lens - they're crap. I was put off TLR's after using one. The saving grace was having a proper tlr that worked!
motosacto
04-03-2007, 07:27
You like wides...
Then i suggest a Mamiya Cxxx, preferably a 330(f) but 33, 220 or 22 will do as well, and get a 65mm or even an 55mm lens with it (the black version).
They are a bit big and heavy, though.
Actually, the C220 is significantly smaller and lighter than the C330. Significantly cheaper, too. Nice condition copies can be had from, for example, KEH for not very much $$$. The 55 and 65 lenses are nice too.
If you get bitten by the TLR bug, you WILL eventually get a Rollei, however. That just how things work.
ibcrewin
04-03-2007, 07:33
Well ibcrewin, you certainly couldn't do worse than a lubi, but other than the occasional cool-look of the cheap lens - they're crap. I was put off TLR's after using one. The saving grace was having a proper tlr that worked!
LOL... I couldn't agree with you more!.. The lens isn't anything to write home about.. They take forever to set up properly and focusing with the thing is a PITA. But they ARE cheap! :)
I fondled a Rollei at the shop and it's true they are soooo much nicer!
The Rolleiflex is the Leica of TLR's.
The Leica R, perhaps Frank? :)
My vote is for the autocord - I've seen what it does in good hands!
And Ash - Inhale! Go for the really big one - three foot of manly engineering! - the camera that makes Kiev 60s quake!
Cheers, Ian
Michael I.
04-03-2007, 07:42
on Alenby street in Tel Aviv(near the sea-oera towers area) there are a bunch of stores where you can handle a few and see what do you like(rolleis mamiyas and minoltas are common there - prices vary).
Ian, the 8x10 is plain MASSIVE. I'd prefer to use a tailboard camera at that size :D
physiognomy
04-03-2007, 08:00
I haven't been watching Rollei prices for a while now, but I 2nd(3rd, whatever) the suggestion that you hunt for a late R'cord (IV, V, Va/Vb) or R'flex MX-EVS etc... You will inevitably want to get the best, so get it first & save yourself some money in the long run. If you are worried about the $$$ for accessories, I suggest you stick with the bay I models (Xenar/Tessar lenses)... Good luck with your choice!
Peter
oftheherd
04-03-2007, 08:17
Consider one of the Welta models. They are nice and should be cheaper. Now of course, everyone knew I would say that.
Now that its been said, I would probably listen to those mentioning the Autocord or Rolleicord. I have never so much as handled one, but too many here tout them. They must be worth it. A CLA'd camera does have its advantages too. For the little extra money you know for sure it will be as advertised. If you demand interchangable lenses, then the 220/330 are where you want to be. They are more money, but so much more versatility. Only you can decide on that. Try to use a friends first if you can. I loved the Yashica 124 MAT G I had, and sometimes wish I had another. But I doubt I would use it. I have a Super Press 23 and can't see much to TLR's after it. Still, they can be fun and have bigger negatives.
Good luck.
Thanks everyone! I really appreciate all the advice (that's why I love this community!). Now to do some serious looking - I've never even heard of the Minolota Autocord! Cool. With a Leica M6TTL and MP it'll be very difficult to convince my wife that I need the most expensive TLR, even if that's what I wind up with a few years from now. Best to ease into these things!
Thanks!!!
Alex
As been said earlier in the thread, a CLA'd camera is a very good thing. Now, looking back at the cameras I've sent off for CLA - it's been worth every penny! Other than that, it's pretty much subjective what model or make you like. I prefer the Rolleicords. A III or IV is cheaper, but I think the Vb is the best of the bunch. They can be hard to find and/or pricey, though.
Spyderman
04-03-2007, 08:37
When talking "cheap" what about a good old Meopta Flexaret ? These are old czechoslovakian TLRs, with coated 4-element elnses named Belar and Meopta made a lot of accessories for them - like 6x4.5 adapters, 35mm adapters, close-up lenses etc. In czech republic and slovakia they cost about 30-40 $.
Look here (click) (http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Flexaret_VII)
PS: I have 2 :) both were given to me by relatives.
Minolta Autocord. With bells on.
I heeded Fgianni's repeated recommendations, and bought Dreilly's excellent Autocord.
It was love at first focus. My Yashicamat 124G has been relegated to the sidelines, as has my Seagull TLR, which never actually lived up to my expectations. The Autocord is a feast.
Hey Spyderman - thanks! Getting a Czechoslovak TLR would be like returning to my roots - my paternal grandfather emigrated to the U.S. from there in 1920! Still, much research to be done.
Does anyone know any good shops in Berlin? I'll be there at the end of the month.
Cheers,
Alex
Doug - your photo says sooo much! Thanks for the contact info and I'll definitely be looking into your recommendations!
Thanks!!!!
Hi Alex, don't lose track of what you wanted, namely a wide angle option. I enjoyed my Yashica 124 and took some of my best images with it. I found that I liked the slower pace that this system encourages and the ground glass image has more presence than a viewfinder image for me. I find that the larger negs make it difficult to imagine shooting my "serious" images on 35mm. The major drawback was the fixed focal length. I bought a C220 and a few lenses. This kit is very, very capable for a modest outlay. Lenses are widely available from 55mm to 250mm, I have a few from 65mm to 180mm, these give a great deal of flexibility to my shots, provided I can carry them.
Good luck...
Actually, that Autocord is now Lynn's--the one she was raving about. It's a tight family around here! Beautiful camera and very nice, contrastry lens.
Why is it now Lynn's? I just happened to find a basically unused Rolleicord 3 for about $50 on ebay and lucked out in the gamble, and found the one spouse-friendly model for me!
I had a Flexaret VII, loved it. Great Czech cameras and available on ebay cla'd from a guy in Bratislava. But the prices approach the price of a CLA'd Autocord, and the Japanese did make a better product in general, I have to admit.
Hey Spyderman - thanks! Getting a Czechoslovak TLR would be like returning to my roots - my paternal grandfather emigrated to the U.S. from there in 1920! Still, much research to be done.
Does anyone know any good shops in Berlin? I'll be there at the end of the month.
Cheers,
Alex
Hi Alex,
not about cameras, but definitely pay www.fotoimpex.de a visit for some film.
Best regards,
Uwe
I've definitely got lots to think about here - many options that I'd never considered but obviously should. Thanks!
Uwe - thanks for the tip. Sad that in the two years I lived in Berlin ('01-'03) I never made it to Hameln - and I wanted to take my son there, too!
Cheers,
Alex
Alex,
it's not too far from Berlin. Now on the ICE, it's between 1,5 and 2 hours on the train to Hannover and then about 45 minutes on the local train into Hameln.
It's definitely worth a visit. There's a Maccie in the Old Town and they were not allowed to put up their standard red and yellow signs, but only a copper coloured one.
When exactly are you coming to Germany?
Uwe
Edit: here's the website: http://www.hameln.com/tourism/piedpiper/open_air.htm
Spyderman
04-04-2007, 04:49
So, here is one of my Flexarets: the newer VI.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=43288&stc=1&d=1175691050
All this TLR talk reminded me that the older IV needed some cleaning, so I opened it up - and found some BUGS inside the body! It was behind the front plate! And the camera has had a CLA about 2 years ago... I just wonder how deep a CLA it was... :rolleyes:
minmingg
04-08-2007, 03:01
minolta autocord
rolleiflex 2.8
Mackinaw
04-08-2007, 04:27
I faced the same decision you're currently facing about a year back. I decided on a Mamiya C220 because of the option of interchangeable lenses. A great camera that takes excellent pics. I do agree though, that if you get bitten by the TLR bug really bad, you'll someday want a Rolleiflex.
Jim Bielecki
like2fiddle
04-10-2007, 07:48
FWIW: As a result of this thread, I now have a Minolta Autocord from Karl out in Oregon. :D Thanks for all the good tips!
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