View Full Version : Shopping for Leica Ms / camera store etiquette.
caffeineshutter
03-29-2007, 23:38
Hello All,
I had an experience recently at a camera store that left me a bit perplexed, and slightly irritated. I'll cut to the chase:
While I was handling an M3, the store owner helping me said "No. Don't do that..."
According to him, Leicas need to be handled "like jewelery", and a photog should NEVER let the wind lever rachet back when advancing to the next frame. The wind lever needs to be guided back home with the thumb that just performed the winding action. He demonstrated as he spoke...
During the course of these minutes of tutelage, I acted good-natured, enthusiastic, and eager to learn something new.
Next, I inquired about the speed difference between using the M3 & M2 knurled rewind knobs versus the newer (i.e. M4) rewind lever: "Do find it takes significantly longer to rewind?" I casually asked, (thinking that the bottom loading procedure would take long enough for a noob like me, to say nothing of twisting the knurled rewind knob.)
He paused, looked at me, and said: "You're the first person to ever ask me that question." Then he added: "A real Leica owner would NEVER ask that question."
I looked back, wide-eyed, disguising my distaste for his apparrent snobbery.
"Really?" I said.
"You see," he replied, "a Leica owner treats the camera like fine jewelery; they ENJOY the fine feel (sic.) of the camera..." He went on to say, with a bit of derision in his voice: "(If) you have a digital camera, you just point and shoot. With a LEICA, you COMPOSE the photo: Is it horizontal? Is it vertical?" he gestures with an M3 body in his hands.
Thank you very much, Mr. Eisenstadt.
The M3s in his shop were 'users', in fair to good condition. They were priced at $1,000 each, with the exception of one at $750. Apparently his guy hasn't discovered the Intarweb yet.
So I'm compelled to ask: Is treating the M wind levers with fanatical gentleness an accepted way of using a 'user' M? (i.e. the non "250 Borscht"/"Obi Wan Limited Edition"/"Aboriginal Lesbian Wedding Anniversary" or "catipillar hide covered" edition Leicas?) The one I was holding was a single wind model. Perhaps these grow fragile as they age?
Furthermore, is the difference between the M3 and M4-style rewind inconsequential?
As far as real Leica users maybe he could see Gandy's write up on Winogrand's camera...
http://cameraquest.com/LeicaM4G.htm
LOL, what a snobbery. For f***s sake, Leicas are just cameras, not jewelry. (Unless we are talking about some real collectibles.)
I got once almost kicked out of a camera store when I looked at D200 Nikon digital body. I wanted to see how the viewfinder looks like. Well, it had body cap on, I took it off and the salesmen went to panic, grabbed the camera out of my hands and said that "don't do that! The sensor is getting all dusty if you remove the cap!" ....me: "well, how am I going to see how the viewfinder looks like if I can't remove the cap? Can you attach a lens to it?"... The salesmen had his death stare going and refused to co-operate anymore with me. No need to say that I bought my D200 elsewhere.
Post deleted by posters request
Oh crap, now I need an Obi Wan ltd. edition M3...... thanks man.
mfunnell
03-30-2007, 02:12
Hmm - I use the rewind knob on my M3 to, um, rewind film. Fast. So I can put more film in to take more photos. I like a nice-looking camera well enough - as long as it can take photos, and is designed to help that process rather than get in the way. Same as, first and foremost, I figure I ought to be able to tell the time by looking at a watch. Part of the appreciation of fine machinery, IMO, is that it works and works well.
If Leicas had to be treated like delicate flowers then photographers wouldn't have used them.
And if some drop-kick carried on like that, I'd tell him to keep delicately stroking his, um, lever while I head off to a camera shop.
...Mike
Post deleted by posters request
Amazing.. stories like that make me appreciate the store we have in this town.
The owner is very welcoming and was content with me playing with his Leicas almost every time I came to get some film. So couple of weeks ago I brought a friend of mine there, who bought an M6 with 50 cron (price was great too). Hoping to get an M4 there myself tomorrow :)
And there's me seeing how fast I can have the wind lever sling back every time I wind on with my M2. It's a challenge.
I hate snobs like that. Ace Cameras in Bath were really friendly and helpful, not minding when I fired a few shots through with a minty IIIg, and played with a Contarex/Contaflex from the cabinets.
I have occasionally come across shop clerks with such snobbery, but then I usually talk them down and thrust my young physique and bad breath their way and they give me my space ;)
...i don't really have bad breath.
Isn't there a story (or urban legend) about US Leica salespeople throwing M3s against a wall to show how durable they were?
mfunnell
03-30-2007, 04:21
BTW...
"catipillar hide covered" edition Leicas?I gotta get me one of them :rolleyes:
...Mike
The folks who've sold me Nikon RFs have always been a much nicer bunch.
caffeineshutter
03-30-2007, 04:27
It's been great reading all your reactions, comments, and anecdotes about camera retail.
Incidentally, this owner/salesman runs the aforementioned shop in a very moneyed suburb of the Boston metro area. For kicks, I Googled his name and shop. The results I got were almost exclusively M8 owners gushing over his "great" demeanor and "lightnin' fast" (which I read as "boot licking") service. I can't help but think this guy knows his clientele well enough to be able to cherry pick the well-heeled dilettante photogs when they come through the door.
KoNickon
03-30-2007, 04:35
Well, I tolerate the M3's wind knob, but a rewind crank (a la the M4 and almost any other camera of the 60s and 70s) is much more convenient.
endustry
03-30-2007, 04:36
This dealer would make a good character for an SNL skit.
KoNickon
03-30-2007, 04:36
Hmm -- a town that begins iwth an "N"?
mfunnell
03-30-2007, 04:42
Well, I tolerate the M3's wind knob, but a rewind crank (a la the M4 and almost any other camera of the 60s and 70s) is much more convenient.And the Hexar RF of the late 90s is pure luxury :D
...Mike
"One week later I go back to the obnoxious shop, brand-new MP in hand. I walk in, approach the idiot and, with the greatest enthusiasm you can imagine and my friendliest smile exclaim: 'I got it, I finally got it! Now I'd like to buy that copy of Dennis Laney's / Erwin Puts' Leica Pocket Book, please' (approx. 20 euros)."
Touché :)
wyk_penguin
03-30-2007, 05:10
A friend of mine who has an M3 uses the "twirl-a-whirl" rewind method, i.e. pulls up the crank, holds it in his left hand and twirls the camera around. He's been at it for quite a while and the camera's still going strong. (I wonder if he ever lost his grip.)
Robert Price
03-30-2007, 05:19
AHHH. Leica snobbery. We have two camera shops that "actually" have leica's to sell. One is a dealer, the other has only used Leica's. The Dealer shop is great. I got there to get all of my Leica goodies. The other used camera dealer likes to diplay his Leica's like fine jewelery. It erks me every time I go there, but I can always get him down on price. I just play his game and get him every time.
He's an Idiot to be sure, always thinking he has the market cornered on cameras of antiquity but he is just a pawn shop when it comes to buying cameras, and selling them. I just got a M3 from him with 50 and 90 mm lenses. He wanted $1500.00 for it all. I just wanted the body, long story short, I ended up with it all for $750.00.
Lesson to be learned, some times it can be to your advantage to play along with the snobbery, it could get you a better deal.
Post deleted by posters request
If the town begins with "N" that dealership recently lost a very long-serving manager who ran the camera sales desk. He is a great bloke and also a Leica user and I'm sure he took most of his clientele with him.
The owner is out to lunch.
Post deleted by posters request
If I'm thinking of the same place Peter_N is, the ex-manager is alive and well at another store in Boston - or so I've heard via the grapevine...
bobkonos
03-30-2007, 08:41
I am with Magus on this one. I hate poor customer service. Customer sevice is the most important thing to me when I purchase anything, especailly a big ticket item. I'd chalk your experience up to someone who is mixing the collector world with the user world, and has no idea of customer service (or the need to sell something when you are a salesperson). So many salespeople today do not know how to sell, which combines friendliness and inquisitiveness with the ability to make the customer feel part of a bigger world (in this case, Leica photography and ownership). Make the customer feel special-how hard is that?
I am lucky: I bought my MP new from a local dealer who was also a friend and fellow Leica nut, and he was more than happy to let me put a roll of film through it before I bought it-which I did not but appreciated anyway. But he is an exception, I think. You'll do a lot better dealing with a number of RFF folks when it comes to getting your Leica kit together.
By all means, when you get your Leica, bring it back to this guy and show him how much you like your camera. Best of all, get an M3 or M2 and an M4 and tell him you decided to try both types of film rewind. Heh, heh, heh...
When I was a kid I lived in a town called Hull, in the north of England. There were a few music shops there. In one of them, the salesmen were suited and snooty, and wouldn't let spotty upstart kids touch the stock. In the other one, the salesmen were all musicians, really knew their stuff - and would talk to you all day, giving advice. Even when I bought my first Gibson down in London, one particular salesman was still friendly and commended me on my choice.
It was maybe five years later that I bought a Gretsch Chet Atkins 6120, from 1964, from him, when he finally had his own store. When my band got a record advance, it was wasn't a huge amount, maybe $5,000, we spent all of it there. ANd around 10 years ago, when I was back in town, from my home in London, I bought a 1952 Fender Telecaster from him.
Any salesman who thinks he can afford to ignore a potential customer is not really a salesman.
Damnation, I have been to so many camera shops that has a-hole's working in them, what is it with some places? Back in Washington state there is this place called Robi's or something like that in Tacoma. There is this bald SOB in there that couldnt clean my canon 20D's sensor right after bringing it back to him on a 3rd time he said he couldnt clean it any better. I bought a visible dust sensor brush and it cleaned the sensor better and everything then he did for cheaper and I can use it for cheaper and whenever I want without leaving my camera with some nut.
To make things worse a year and a half later I found myself in that shop again and he was bragging about how their scanner is so good and how it makes a 40 meg scan and costs 120 dollars a scan, and I told him that I get pro scans bigger and better then that done in china for 80 cents each. Luckily I talked to another guy in there, an nice older man who sold me my 50 elmar redscale for 90 dollars. Great deal. Other then that I would never ever go back to that place again. Even the guy who sold me my lens suggested I should to to Glazers in seattle. Glazers is great, love that place, I went in there twice to fondle the leicas (m7, mp, m8) and lenses, even stuck a few lenses on my bessa to see how they fit with me etc etc and the Mark guy in there was nice and patient and in the end helped me buy a screw to m mount adapter and showed me how to use it and screw lenses on and whatever without any fuss.
I've used a round rewind knob on a Kiev (Contax II derivative). It's a tiny bit slower than using a fold out rewind knob on later cameras. But not a huge issue. I developed a variation of the technique described above ... I'd hold the camera in one hand and the rewind knob in the other and turn both in opposite directions at once. That sped up the rewind process.
I spent 20 minutes in my local vintage camera shop. I wanted to get a few obscure pieces. I pretty much got what I was looking for. The man and woman in there probably don't know my name but they'll never forget my face. Whether I spend £1 or £100, if they have it in that shop, I'll buy it there rather than anywhere else.
That's only because the people in there are so friendly and always greet me with a smile.
Compare that to the other 3 or more camera shops in swindon that are all money-grabbing.
Same as Paul-T I guess. I refuse to enter one of the music/instrument shops in swindon because they are so rude.
Well from the camera sales man's point of view, there have been more than a few customers I have wanted to smack and several that I have told to leave the store. Of course, there is really no excuse for being rude from either side. I question whether the sales men in question even want to sell cameras!!
Have I asked for a camera back before. Yea I have a couple times because they had no idea how to even put a lens on, but were trying to jam it on as hard as they could so it was either grab the thing quick or end up with a destroyed 5D and lens. Sometimes you just can't help it.
You try to be nice to the customers and show them, but you'd be amazed how many customers walk in with a chip on their shoulders and automatically assume I don't know a thing and they know everything. I take great delight in proving they know nothing. Not because I am an ass, but because they are! ;) If they are polite to me then I will spend all day helping them.
I don't know everything about every camera, but I try my best to find an answer if I don't know. I don't just make stuff up to make a sale.
Now for my story about a watch shop ;) I was in the mall one day and happened to have about $1000 cash in my pocket. I wasn't using for some reason, I had just failed to go to the bank as I was supposed to! I noticed the nice watches in one store and asked to see one. The salesman looked at me and said no you can't see it, you can't afford this watch. He then turned around and went to the other customers that were there. I kindly walked over to him, pulled out my $1000 and set it on the counter in front of him and the customers and said well, I guess I will just go elsewhere for my purchase. You should have seen the look on the customers faces who had heard all of this!
The guy tried to apologize to me but I just walked out saying something to the effect of I don't deal with rude a**holes. I had no intention of buying a watch anyways, but just the way he treated me, I wasn't going to let that slide!
So as I was typing all of that. A customer just walked in and said I have a camera I want to give to you. I don't use it and want you to find it a good home. I told the gentleman we would buy the camera but he said no thank you, he didn't want any money.
It's a Nikon F with 50 f1.4 and prism finder.
Someone pinch me!
If I'm thinking of the same place Peter_N is, the ex-manager is alive and well at another store in Boston - or so I've heard via the grapevine...Except that he didn't go there as manager, he bought the store with a partner. He's the Boss now! :)
Except that he didn't go there as manager, he bought the store with a partner. He's the Boss now! :)
Ah, good for him. Funny you should mention that - I was on the phone with the man himself half an hour ago looking for an eyepiece correction lens for a Leica[non-RF reference deleted] SL2 (no luck). I remember old EPL...now THERE was a camera dealer.
I have also seen some snob-leica-sellers, who first of all check you out from head to toe to see if you are worthy of their camera, and dont let you even touch them because they think you might not have enough money or experience to deserve on. just ignore them and get your cameras from people who treat leicas as cameras and customers as people.
bd the guy has never even taken a photo with a leica before, he just prefers to "fondle" them in his storeroom, the guy sounds like a super freak ;)
I have also seen some snob-leica-sellers, who first of all check you out from head to toe to see if you are worthy of their camera...
I wear my nice clothes to funerals, and basically live in rumpled jeans and a collection of identical twelve-dollar T-shirts, so I know the type. They usually hand me a five-dollar note and expect me to wash and squeegee the shop windows.
Made fifteen bucks one day, out looking for a fast M-mount fifty. Thank goodness my Rolex is waterproof.
Berliner
03-30-2007, 14:39
Is this shop in N ville perchance? I have hade some similar experiences there. Where did the guy with the beard (blond) go to in Boston? I am looking for a well stocked Leica dealer in bos...
Yes it is, at least that's the shop we're talking about. Mike has bought (with a partner) EP Levine at 23 Drydock Ave in Boston.
Berliner
03-30-2007, 15:08
Well, I guess I am going to Southie tomorrow..
It's been great reading all your reactions, comments, and anecdotes about camera retail.
Incidentally, this owner/salesman runs the aforementioned shop in a very moneyed suburb of the Boston metro area. For kicks, I Googled his name and shop. The results I got were almost exclusively M8 owners gushing over his "great" demeanor and "lightnin' fast" (which I read as "boot licking") service. I can't help but think this guy knows his clientele well enough to be able to cherry pick the well-heeled dilettante photogs when they come through the door.
You've already answered your own question. This person looked at you and bet that you were just "kicking tires" and weren't going to spend a dime. Young guy with no money. This is by no means an excuse for his behavior, but if he has as many well healed clients as you think he does he could care less about you. Exercise your right and go to another dealer. I wouldn't even waste my time worrying about this shop, who the owner is, or what the name of the camera shop is! Truth be told the majority of us don't buy our equipment from these dealers anyway. I'll go out on a limb and say that most of us buy online / gray market/ or from our own classifieds. We all at one time or another have bought a piece or two from a dealer but the majority of the equipment wasn't acquired this way. Look at the demographics of Leica owners if they have such a thing and half of us would probably receive the same treatment as "caffeineshutter".
Now if you've got some spare $$$ I've got a RF with your name on it :D
caffeineshutter
03-30-2007, 15:09
I've never purchased anything substantial at his old shop (and never had a problem there, FWIW), but Mike seems like a nice guy. I wish him well at the helm of Levine's. BTW: I've never bought 'big ticket' at Levine's, either, but I've been a long-time customer there, and Cole and the rest of the sales/counter folk are good people.
If the town begins with "N" that dealership recently lost a very long-serving manager who ran the camera sales desk. He is a great bloke and also a Leica user and I'm sure he took most of his clientele with him.
The owner is out to lunch.
caffeineshutter
03-30-2007, 15:15
Best of all, get an M3 or M2 and an M4 and tell him you decided to try both types of film rewind. Heh, heh, heh...
I LOL'd. Well said. :-)
I guess you guys have never been to any boutique on Madison Avenue in New York. They have locks, you have to be buzzed in, and they often don't let in people of the "wrong" color.
nooooowww i get that episode of punk'd...hehehe.
caffeineshutter
03-30-2007, 15:28
Do fat plain Jane chicks get the same service from you as knockout babes with apple-firm breasts?
YES. Because in my experience, they're better in bed. Beautiful chicks coast on their looks, and tend to be boring. (I don't have a history like Ron Jeremy does, but that's the way it seems to be.)
Sorry to editorialize there. :-D
tetrisattack
03-30-2007, 16:54
Somebody mentioned Glazer's in Seattle earlier.
I'll never forget this:
Standing there as the checkout clerk scans my items in, I asked him what the difference between velvia 50 and 100 was. There was an older, more grizzled salesman taking a break, sitting on some stairs behind the counter, and he chimed in:
"You probably won't notice the difference."
Jeez! Everything's been better since they put lighting and supplies across the street. I can go in there and buy paper and chemistry without ever seeing a "Canon" logo.
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Ken Ford
03-31-2007, 07:06
So as I was typing all of that. A customer just walked in and said I have a camera I want to give to you. I don't use it and want you to find it a good home. I told the gentleman we would buy the camera but he said no thank you, he didn't want any money.
It's a Nikon F with 50 f1.4 and prism finder.
Someone pinch me!
I run a *very* nice home for wayward Nikon SLRs!
well, i might get shot here , but I think everyone is forgetting about the salesman.
I do not treat my camera like jewlery, i take it ( or try to ) everywhere, same when I had my SLR's.. but how many people does the salesman have per day that ask to try out a leica, treat it nonrespectfully ( ie, for example, wind and let the wind clank back and seem to show no care for the camera ) and just leave away ?
sure in one of two of them , is a potential customer. but the guy is a man, and as a man he is entitled to have a bad day. just because you are a customer, doesnt mean that you can mistreat and mock a salesman because you *might* buy something off him. show some repect and have respect in return.
well, according to the initial story, it seems that the salesman was a pri*ck, and if that so, well, be two times a pr*ck, thats my theory at least.
anyway, if anyone is entitled to talk about customer service , i think would be me : i work in a well known hotel top brand were above all, customer is king. our guests pay sometimes up to 300% more than competition for equal or even a bit inferior rooms. what makes the difference ? service. and we and the guest know it. some guests just want to come to the hotel and rest assured whatever the problem is, we fix it or we fix it ( there is really no option here), thats why they pay the surcharge. and no matter what, they keep comming back ( actually, our repeated guest rate is rocket high, around 75% ).
but also take into consideration that a salesman can have a bad day and loads of pesky kids that just come to the store to play with cameras without intention to buy and walk away.
before, i bought everything off ebay. cheaper it is, I thought. but now, Im faithfull to a couple of stores. i pay a bit more but I get a good chat with the sales people. i get to test the equipment ( a store that i most frequently visit, before i bought my first leica , gave a Leica M6 to me for a couple of days for testing, since I never used a RF before - take it and use it, if you like it we talk about the price, if dont, and if its in the same conditino, you just return it ). smart sales move. of course I was hooked. they knew it from the start, basta*rds ! :)
ClaremontPhoto
04-06-2007, 04:46
Well said proenca.
Get to know your shop, and let them get to know you.
If you're into Leica there's probably only one shop nearby anyway. So why shop around and be a foreign face in several shops? Go back to your regular guy. You'll trust him and he'll trust you.
Tell a friend about the good shop, and if they tell the shop who sent them you'll get a really great welcome next time you visit.
Yes, well said Porenca. I think not all the blame should be placed on that salesman. I worked in a very well known NYC camera store for 5 years. Now defunct. My worst experience with a customer, was having that customer tell me quite loudly that since he was the customer, he was my boss, and I had to do everything that he said. I turned around and walked away quietly because I knew it could get ugly. He then went up to my boss and told him I was rude to him. For punishment, I had wait on him. It was extremely painful. He kept telling me, in between barking his orders, that I was too young and didnt know my manners. To make matters worse, this all took place just 15 minutes before closing time. He was from South America, was eating a sandwich, was buying a couple of thousand dollars in darkroom equipment, was paying by credit card, and wanted to have everything shipped there so he could forgo paying taxes. Needless to say, my coworkers become quite testy once we went passed 15 minutes after closing time. I guess you had to be there. It was one of the worst experiences I ever had as a salesman.
georgefspencer
04-06-2007, 08:04
Years ago (in the late 60’s) I worked for a man who owned a tobacco warehouse. He made BIG bucks during tobacco season. One day he had me drive him to the local Mercedes dealer because he wanted to buy a new car. Both of us were dressed for work so we probably didn’t look like your average Mercedes customer. We walked into the store and he walked over to a 230SL (250?). He looked at the window sticker and said, “I’ll take this one.” The salesman didn’t budge . . . but finally the sales manager walked out to see what was going on. Again my friend indicated that he wanted the 230SL but this time he pulled out a wad of cash. He bought the car from the sales manager and the salesman missed a sale.
steve garza
04-06-2007, 10:01
As much as I hate rude service from a salesperson,I would never go out of my to "teach them a lesson." It just shows you let them get under your skin. I prefer to let them remain ignorant and poor. As as a successful salesman myself, I try to quickly discern who is serious and who is not about my product. If I determine that person is wasting my time, I cut him loose in a flash. If someone turned down my product and later came back to brag or show me a similar product they purchased I'd probably be quite rude to that person.
Perhaps you should have grabbed the M3 and 'accidentally' clonked him on the head with it. You could then have demonstrated its perfect operation after the event, proving quite publicly his utter stupidity. I am glad for salesmen such as this as they provide endless opportunity for wind ups. The point the salesman seems to have missed is that you are only a real Leica owner after you have bought one; a process he is supposed to facilitate in return for a wage. I would love to see some of his shots. I bet they are really adventurous...you know like using the camera in the portrait format, something unthinkable with an SLR. He must be a winner with candid portraits with such a gift of the gab!
The point about the salesman having a bad days is somewhat lost amidst the apparent snobbery and condescending tone...so it does not sound at all about him being fed up with kids trying to play with cameras but him stereotyping Leica owners and losing a sale as a result.
[QUOTE=tetrisattack]Somebody mentioned Glazer's in Seattle earlier.
"You probably won't notice the difference."
QUOTE]
It needs a lens testing chart to tell, perhaps you look non technical.
Noel
SolaresLarrave
04-22-2007, 08:32
I heard this story from a real estate person here in town.
A scruffy looking guy in overalls walked into a real estate agency and asked to see a certain large lot. The agents scuttled away from him, leaving only a young person there to take the customer to the lot. They go to the place, get the information later, the guy walks out the office.
Days later, the real estate office received an offer for the lot. The owner sells, and the young agent gets a major commission as the lot was a really highly priced property. It turns out the overall-clad man came in on behalf of Menard's, and that's how we got that store in our area now.
BTW, I think luck has spared me the snobbery at camera stores. Although, on the other hand, I think they see me as an easy mark... :confused:
Welsh_Italian
04-22-2007, 09:35
"Camera snobs" reminds me of the classic advert for the Olympus Trip with David Bailey. You can watch it here:
http://www.uktvadverts.com/Media/video/olympus1.ram
It's funny too.
Post deleted by posters request
Magus
How did you get 'tort' to come out without '56$+'?
Noel
edit
Hey it works...
Post deleted by posters request
Harry Lime
04-23-2007, 05:21
What an idiot. It's a tool damn it, not a fashion accessory. ;-)
That's one of the reasons why Leica got into trouble in the first place. They started to market their cameras as jewelry to the rich, instead of actual photographers.
Geez!
Harry Lime
04-23-2007, 05:29
Isn't there a story (or urban legend) about US Leica salespeople throwing M3s against a wall to show how durable they were?
I think that back when Tom A was working for a paper in Sweden, they would rewind the film in their M2 cameras by spinning them around the rewind knob...
Harry Lime
04-23-2007, 05:32
"knows his clientele well enough to be able to cherry pick the well-heeled dilettante photogs when they come through the door."
That can be a bit dangerous. I have an old geezer that lives near me who would fool him. He dresses like a farm hand. But is worth several million dollars. He has been the nightmare for more than a few store clerks.
Yeah, I saw that happen more than a few times in Los Angeles. You're waiting at the valet of some fancy restaurant and the kid is giving some guy, who looks like he slept in the street, the brush off. Then they bring his Bentley around.
it never fails.
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