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Ash
03-25-2007, 01:41
http://photo-muse.blogspot.com/2007/03/winogrand-at-work-movie.html

In case some of you hadn't caught it yet ;)



....that's a leica M in his hand, right?

Xmas
03-25-2007, 01:46
Ash

A hand on his M4

http://cameraquest.com/LeicaM4G.htm

Noel

Michael I.
03-25-2007, 01:49
I love his body of work

Nigel Meaby
03-25-2007, 02:50
Thanks for that Ash. He's always been Top "Street" Dog in my eyes! :D

ChrisN
03-25-2007, 03:37
That was worth watching. I'm fascinated by his mannerisms - he had this neat trick of bringing the camera up to his eye and instantly snapping the shot, then whipping the camera up and away as if he had changed his mind about taking the shot.

fishtek
03-25-2007, 06:37
He's probably the quintessential street shooter....but...I think that a photograph can be narrative.

Subject for a deep psych thread?

Regards!
Don

pesphoto
03-25-2007, 06:54
Thanks for that link Ash. Ive never seen him at work or heard him speak before. Anyone else notice he doesnt seem to have a camera strap?

morgan
03-25-2007, 07:59
Thanks for posting that, it was great to see. I love his work, and seeing him in action is inspiring. It appears almost effortless to him. Also, I've never wanted an M so badly. It's practically invisible in his hand.

pcfranchina
03-25-2007, 19:23
WOW! Now thats street shooting. Talk about quick with the camera. Anyone know anything about his technique?

RayPA
03-25-2007, 19:46
Ash, you're my hero. Thanks for finding and posting this!

edit: linked it to my blog too.
.

Todd.Hanz
03-25-2007, 19:53
Excellent! Excellent!

He was a god, I like his philosophy, so much more humble than alot of the modern day ilk.

Todd

MikeL
03-25-2007, 20:02
He sure took some interesting photos with a pre-asph canon lens. ;) His book 'The Animals' has always made me chuckle and smile.

RayPA
03-25-2007, 20:09
That was worth watching. I'm fascinated by his mannerisms - he had this neat trick of bringing the camera up to his eye and instantly snapping the shot, then whipping the camera up and away as if he had changed his mind about taking the shot.

I read a Meyerowitz interview (I think in Winogrand's Figments ' ) book, and he described that mannerism, so it was neat to see. Also of note, he's left-eyed.


.

f8&go
03-25-2007, 20:50
Ash,

Thanks for the link. Loved it!

MadMan2k
03-25-2007, 21:05
Very interesting video, really cool to see how he worked while shooting.

telenous
03-25-2007, 21:17
Thanks Ash, great video. I saw it with my girlfriend the other day (somebody posted a different link to the same video) and we both chuckled when we saw his mannerism. You could see though it worked, he took a few photos of crossing pedestrians point blank, and they weren't sure, they were looking at each other in disbelief ('What the?...did he? didn't he?').

The way he took photos also explains his choice of wide-angle lens. Hyperfocal at f11-16 under the strong Californian sunlight, and shooting at close range. It made me wonder if I need a 28mm lens after all. (why does everything have to lead to GAS :bang: )

I also liked him a lot as a person, he seemed easygoing and fun ('mad scientist' is what my girlfriend said he looked like) and his commentary on his own work was very interesting, but this was a person who obviously preferred to do photography rather than talk about it. His behaviourist philosophy about photos capturing the surface of reality, (which, according to him, is all there is to it) or about them not having a narrative but only a straightforward descriptive, ostentive function was also very revealing about the man. And the bit I agree most with him is that you really cannot outdo the theatricality that people provide for you in their everyday lives.

It was certainly educational, even a little rivetting to watch him at work - and I can tell you, the day I watched it, I went out to shoot with a slightly different mentality.

aizan
03-25-2007, 21:26
i think he would have liked the hexar rf. :D

Ash
03-26-2007, 04:07
Don't thank me, thank the guy who owns the blog. He's a member on LFPF, so I stole the link from his post about it.

Thought you all might like it.

In all honesty when I'm shooting, I shoot a lot like winogrand, but with less chatter about it. Often focus and take the shot or move the camera to some angle (but not so tilted.. well except for Gun Shop shot!) to catch people without them reacting.

But hey, Wino is the hero, I'm just Ash ;)

Nigel Meaby
03-26-2007, 05:10
"Anyone else notice he doesnt seem to have a camera strap?"
Aha, I watched it again after reading your comment and you are partly right. The first time we see him out on the street he has an M4 with a thin brown leather strap around his neck, which I didn't notice first time around. When we see him out on the street the second time he must be using another M4 as it does indeed not have a strap. all the same his "camera action" is pretty fluid.

willie_901
03-26-2007, 08:00
I too found this video fascinating. I decided the external 28mm finder really helped him be quick.

I also liked the sort of crazy answer he gave ("Just trying to survive") to somebody who challenged him ("What's up? What's up?). This strategy is brilliant (unless the questioner is with law enforcement).

willie

amateriat
03-26-2007, 09:36
Don't thank me, thank the guy who owns the blog. He's a member on LFPF, so I stole the link from his post about it.
Nonetheless, you still rock for cluing us all in over here. Thanks very much.


- Barrett

Ash
03-26-2007, 09:41
I wanna try taking street shots with this though..

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/DSC00908.jpg


:D

pesphoto
03-26-2007, 09:42
why not....Atget used to do it

Biggles
03-26-2007, 10:16
...you still rock for cluing us all in over here. Thanks very much.


What the man with the eyeglasses said.

photogdave
03-26-2007, 10:20
I think he would probably have liked a high end digi point and shoot. He probably would have disliked RFF! ;)

HansDerHase
03-26-2007, 10:43
I think he would probably have liked a high end digi point and shoot

Seeing the pace of his action I suspect he would'nt have liked shutterlag :)

BTW: Seeing him jerking around his camera I think all deep and complex theories about Garrys camera tilt are now obsolete. It just happened. He wants to look like he's just playing around - not beeing serious.

Of course later when editing his pictures I'm sure he considered the right amount of tilt, for it is essential for the picture to "grow legs".

...ah yes and... THANKS ASH !!! *bow*

I wonder if it's possible to cature the video, keeping it safe? Anyone knows?

doitashimash1te
03-26-2007, 10:55
I wonder if it's possible to cature the video, keeping it safe? Anyone knows?
Sure, no problem. After registering on vimeo.com you can download the video. I did that and now I have it on my iPod. Its audio i one-channel only, I think I'll fix that because the lack of sound in my right ear is a bit annoying.

And yes: Ash, thanks a LOT! Great find indeed!!!

AusDLK
03-26-2007, 11:34
>i think he would have liked the hexar rf.

I know I do. I've just bought my third and indefinitely shelved my M7.

Thanks Ash for the video link. I have doing some serious history of street photography homework and this fit right in.

morgan
03-26-2007, 15:46
>i think he would have liked the hexar rf.

I know I do. I've just bought my third and indefinitely shelved my M7.

Thanks Ash for the video link. I have doing some serious history of street photography homework and this fit right in.

You've just induced serious hexar gas. I hadn't known much about them and your post made me do a little research. Now I want a hexar RF and AF dammit! I was thinking of an bessa-r2a, but now maybe the hexar would be a better bet, and does so much more, if I can find one.

amateriat
03-26-2007, 15:53
All this Hexarcana. Remember, folks, I had nothing to do with this. ;)


-Barrett

AusDLK
03-26-2007, 23:35
>Now I want a hexar RF

The Hexar has gone from a lowly stepchild backup to my M7 to my front line camera. It is a really great camera.

Only a smidge louder then the M7 but having a top speed of 1/4000, the auto-winder, auto-loading/rewinding, self-timer, smaller than the M7 (when I had it fully equipped with the TA Rapidwinder and Grip), and 1/3 the cost of even a USED M7 makes it impossible to beat.

I feel myself slowly being cured of LS (Leica Syndrome) and comfortable in the knowledge that a camera doesn't have to be made by Leica in order to be excellent -- and to (hopefully) take great pictures.

reub2000
03-27-2007, 03:29
Anyone have a link that doesn't require flash?

DMG
03-27-2007, 05:06
Ash thanks for this, but does anyone else think that Winogrand came across as slightly "creepy"

rogue_designer
03-27-2007, 05:21
I didn't really think he came across as creepy. Especially compare to Meyerowitz in his street ninja mode.

It was fun to watch him work. I like his attitude very much, and it comes across better on tape than it does in a transcript. It's not the first time I've heard the "there isn't a story, how can a single frame tell a story?" argument, but it's the first time I could accept it (even if I don't agree).

Thanks Ash.

DMG
03-27-2007, 05:29
the Meyerowitz one is funny, he's dressed like the SWAT captain from Hill St Blues...

Joerg
03-27-2007, 06:07
Winograd's style is admirable.
Meyerowitz on the otherhand is just wacko in his video. IMHO there are two reasons he does not get beaten up , he does look creepy and in NYC you never know....... and second there are probably two big body guards behind the camera protecting him.....

;-)


Ciao
joerg

Michael I.
03-27-2007, 06:18
Winograd's style is admirable.
Meyerowitz on the otherhand is just wacko in his video. IMHO there are two reasons he does not get beaten up , he does look creepy and in NYC you never know....... and second there are probably two big body guards behind the camera protecting him.....

;-)


Ciao
joerg

Meyerowitz is also very tall. So tall and creepy is actually a safe combination.
A little known fact that HCB was also quite tall(he also stood above the crowd) and yet managed to get blended in the crowd.

AusDLK
03-27-2007, 07:28
>Winogrand came across as slightly "creepy"

I didn't think so.

>So tall and creepy is actually a safe combination.

Well, I'm 6'5" so I like the "tall" part of getting away with be a street photographer -- but I'm not so sure I like the "creepy" part... ;)

But, seriously, I've never had a problem even in the semi-frequent times when I am noticed.

It looks like I'm in good company, though, when it comes to being tall.

tedwhite
03-27-2007, 07:56
I got followed around in downtown Tucson a few weeks ago by a very creepy guy with long, dirty hair. I finally turned and confronted him. Turned out he was an undercover cop and was following me not because he thought I was breaking the law but because he couldn't figure out why I was taking pictures of..."anything interesting. Just that guy crossing the street...do you know that guy?"

Ted

Chuck A
03-27-2007, 08:34
I got followed around in downtown Tucson a few weeks ago by a very creepy guy with long, dirty hair. I finally turned and confronted him. Turned out he was an undercover cop and was following me not because he thought I was breaking the law but because he couldn't figure out why I was taking pictures of..."anything interesting. Just that guy crossing the street...do you know that guy?"

Ted

This is funny. I don't know how many times over the years I have had to explain what I am taking a photo of and why. Digital makes it a bit easier as you can show them the photos. People always think that because you are photographing something that it is somehow extraordinary and they want to know what that is. But most walk away shaking their head.

I found it interesting that even with his quiet M4 Winogrand was noticed taking photos quite often. At least in this video. Even with the quietest camera I get noticed often. He didn't seem to worry too much about it and just kept moving. I love his answer to the lady who asks "What's happening" Winogrand says:"I'm surviving and laughs" I gotta try that one.

He probably would have liked the depth of field of the digital compacts. I don't think that he made large prints. Look at the show in the video, most prints look to be A4 or so. Shutter lag would have been the major issue though. You just couldn't comfortably shoot in his style of work with any degree of shutter lag. I have gone through alot of digitals because of this problem.

Anyway, superb post and great video. This type of video is few and far between.

dazedgonebye
03-27-2007, 10:19
Very cool to watch. How great would it have been to hang out with him a bit?
He was noticed quite a bit in that clip, but he did have a camera crew following him around so that likely drew much of the attention.

Inspiring clip.

amateriat
03-27-2007, 11:33
I suppose one of us could put the Meyerowitz and Winogrand* videos side-by-side, with appelations such as "Street Photography: the Wrong Way/Street Photography: the Right Way", "Street Shooter: Ninja/Street Shooter: Plainclothes", or the like. I like Meyerowitz and his work, but I felt he was veering awfully close to parody in his clip (and not necessarily self-parody, either), whereas Winogrand had a just some guy, you know? demeanor which, more often than not, was the M.O. of most of the good and great photogrraphers I've had the good luck to rub elbows with more than once (Elliott Erwitt and Burk Uzzle come to mind).


- Barrett

*The Winogrand film crew, of course, was a real film crew, as WNET (and CBS's 60 minutes) still had a film unit or two back then. I often like to tease camera crews I encounter or directly deal with when it comes to nomenclature:

Camera Operator: We start filming in twenty minutes

Me: Uh, no, you're taping in twenty.

C.O.: Huh?

Me: You're not shooting film. You're shooting tape.

C.O.: What's the diff?

Me: You're went to school for this stuff, and I have to explain it to you?

C.O.: Dude, this thing actually has a hard drive thingy in it. So #% off.

morgan
03-27-2007, 18:26
>Now I want a hexar RF

The Hexar has gone from a lowly stepchild backup to my M7 to my front line camera. It is a really great camera.

Only a smidge louder then the M7 but having a top speed of 1/4000, the auto-winder, auto-loading/rewinding, self-timer, smaller than the M7 (when I had it fully equipped with the TA Rapidwinder and Grip), and 1/3 the cost of even a USED M7 makes it impossible to beat.

I feel myself slowly being cured of LS (Leica Syndrome) and comfortable in the knowledge that a camera doesn't have to be made by Leica in order to be excellent -- and to (hopefully) take great pictures.

I've got serious LS right now. i can't afford an M8 (or M7 for that matter). But a used M6 is doable. But I really really want a camera with AE. I was thinking of going bessa-R2A, but maybe I can stretch a bit and get a hexar. So it sounds like you're pretty happy with it...

amateriat
03-27-2007, 19:02
Hmm...based on eBay prices and the like, I think it's time to move Hexar futures up from "outperform" to "buy and hold". :)

(Not that I needed any convincing...)


- Barrett

AusDLK
03-27-2007, 19:14
>I was thinking of going bessa-R2A

Skip the Bessa with its short RF base and less than rugged RF design.

The Hexar is far closer to Leica in QA then the Bessa hopes to be. (I like the Bessa BTW...)

You will be able to find a Hexar RF here or on eBay in excellent or mint condition for $600 or less if you are patient. I just bought two "new" (for me) cameras in kits with the 50mm f/2 lens and flash for ~$1000. I sell the lenses for $400 to $500 so you do the math...

amateriat
03-27-2007, 19:24
Stop it, Dave, you're cornering (and overheating) the market! :p


- Barrett

tedwhite
03-27-2007, 20:08
Barrett's right. If I ever want to buy one, clearly I'm screwed.

AusDLK
03-27-2007, 20:12
Okay. I'll shuddup. Look away for a couple of days and it'll all be back to normal...

tedwhite
03-27-2007, 21:06
I've tried all that I can think of, and I absolutely cannot watch the Winograd video.

Ted

amateriat
03-27-2007, 22:12
I've tried all that I can think of, and I absolutely cannot watch the Winograd video.

Ted
Ted: Were you able to download the video? I (or someone here, perhaps) could send you the Quicktime video, if that would help.


- Barrett

ChrisN
03-28-2007, 01:28
I've tried all that I can think of, and I absolutely cannot watch the Winograd video.

Ted


Hmmm. Ted - is it the technology or the content? :)

ChrisN
03-28-2007, 02:31
Another resource for those who have not already seen it: article by Mason Resnick - "Coffee and Workprints: A Workshop With Garry Winogrand"

http://www.photogs.com/bwworld/xtol1.html

Grab a copy of this - I don't think it will be around forever.

tedwhite
03-28-2007, 07:49
Barrett:

No, I was not able to either view it online or download it. I tried everything. I disabled ZoneAlarm, AVG, Windows Guard-it-All, or whatever the hell it's called. No luck. I even joined Vimeo.

Anything you can do would help. My email is tedwhite@cableone.net.

(Who is Martin Munkacsi?)

Biggles
03-28-2007, 08:04
(Who is Martin Munkacsi?)

He's a dead guy who pretty much set the stage for Richard Avedon to define what a well-dressed woman was supposed to look like in a fashion magazine. Really.

He was also a damned good all-rounder; guy could take interesting pictures of anything he got pointed at. Started as a press photographer.

Tried to google his jaw-dropping 1920s picture of a motorcycle going through a puddle; no soap. Saw it in person in Manhattan two weeks ago, though, and it blew my fuses like no other photo ever has.

photogdave
03-28-2007, 08:09
Barrett:

No, I was not able to either view it online or download it. I tried everything. I disabled ZoneAlarm, AVG, Windows Guard-it-All, or whatever the hell it's called. No luck. I even joined Vimeo.

Anything you can do would help. My email is tedwhite@cableone.net.

(Who is Martin Munkacsi?)
Holy smokes! This is the best argument ever to ditch Windows! :D

Ash
03-28-2007, 08:30
*strokes applemac logo* :D

MikeL
03-28-2007, 08:41
Ted, it's in .mov format. You may need Quicktime or some other player to see it.

telenous
03-28-2007, 09:18
Perhaps you 've read it before but I just came across this interview with Winogrand by Diamonstein

http://www.jnevins.com/garywinograndreading.htm

Although he tries to remain as elusive as ever, as well as resist the over-intellectualisation of his photography, there are, I think, some quite interesting comments that give an insight into his motives, aspirations and even technique.

hofrench@mac.co
03-28-2007, 09:29
He's a dead guy who pretty much set the stage for Richard Avedon to define what a well-dressed woman was supposed to look like in a fashion magazine. Really.

He was also a damned good all-rounder; guy could take interesting pictures of anything he got pointed at. Started as a press photographer.

Tried to google his jaw-dropping 1920s picture of a motorcycle going through a puddle; no soap. Saw it in person in Manhattan two weeks ago, though, and it blew my fuses like no other photo ever has.

I think you've seriously undersold Munkacsi, even as you've praised him. Seeing his work was a major life turning point for Cartier Bresson, who has been quoted at length to this effect.

His images of boys playing in the surf in Ivory Coast, and some of his work from the same period in Liberia, next door, pretty much redefined for HCB what the camera could do, and he quit painting as a result. The rest is history.

Munkacsi's work in Nazi Germany, before he went into exile and essentially became a fashion photographer, is also ground breaking, setting the stage for Leni Riefenstahl and others, as was his work in Brazil.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/aglimpseoftheworld/

http://www.howardwfrench.com/photos/

john_van_v
03-28-2007, 11:37
Ash thanks for this, but does anyone else think that Winogrand came across as slightly "creepy"

It so happens he was my upstairs neighbor as I was growing up.

I have to look at this video. I got interested in him again as I started thinking back on my own teenagehood photojournalist career.

When I was trucking I was laid over in Savannah, GA and I visited the Sav Coll of Art & Des library and read up on him. I was quite surprised to see a woman in one of HIS picts that is in one of MY picts. We hit the same woman,damn!! It must have been her plasticy hair.

I cannot say anything about him personally, but I knew his son a little-- NOW there was one creepy boy!!

From both psychology, education, and school bus driving, I can say that odd behaviors are transmitted thru the young. When a kid was bad on the bus, it was pointless to try to set things straight, as the kid's parent was waiting at the stop, sometimes w/ a gun !!

As they say, "the nut doesnt fall far from the tree." So yes, he may have been creepy.

HansDerHase
03-28-2007, 12:53
Tried to google his jaw-dropping 1920s picture of a motorcycle going through a puddle; no soap. Saw it in person in Manhattan two weeks ago, though, and it blew my fuses like no other photo ever has.

You mean like this (http://www.deichtorhallen.de/343.html) one?

Couldn't find the picture in a bigger resolution on the net so far..

But I found a couple of others here (http://munkacsi.redhippo.de/start/index.php?PHPSESSID=4c1f15e20d8e9ba0793a9759d258ea db&noid&page=list&kategorie_id=38) and here (http://www.icp.org/site/c.dnJGKJNsFqG/b.2216209/k.398A/Martin_Munkacsi_Exhibition_Images.htm).

Amazing work. Didn't know so far..

Biggles
03-28-2007, 13:02
Yes, that's the one.

The print I saw in person was easily 300mm tall. Quite impressive.

hofrench@mac.co
03-28-2007, 18:30
You mean like this (http://www.deichtorhallen.de/343.html) one?

Couldn't find the picture in a bigger resolution on the net so far..

But I found a couple of others here (http://munkacsi.redhippo.de/start/index.php?PHPSESSID=4c1f15e20d8e9ba0793a9759d258ea db&noid&page=list&kategorie_id=38) and here (http://www.icp.org/site/c.dnJGKJNsFqG/b.2216209/k.398A/Martin_Munkacsi_Exhibition_Images.htm).

Amazing work. Didn't know so far..


Where are the links?

Biggles
03-28-2007, 18:41
Embedded links don't change color or automatically get underlined on this board. Run your mouse across his post; they'll blink at you.

john_van_v
03-28-2007, 18:51
It so happens he was my upstairs neighbor as I was growing up.

I have to look at this video. I got interested in him again as I started thinking back on my own teenagehood photojournalist career.

When I was trucking I was laid over in Savannah, GA and I visited the Sav Coll of Art & Des library and read up on him. I was quite surprised to see a woman in one of HIS picts that is in one of MY picts. We hit the same woman,damn!! It must have been her plasticy hair.

As they say, "the nut doesnt fall far from the tree." So yes, he may have been creepy.

Actually, I can remember his last moments.

He chainsmoked, as I recall, and it gave him cancer.

Nothing we could do for him worked, as it usually doesn't in lung cancer cases, and he went to Mexico.

He died in a Laetril clinic.

principe azul
03-29-2007, 15:11
Alternative formats for the Winogrand vid (http://www.jimarnold.org/downloads/winogrand/)