View Full Version : Birth of the Zeiss Ikon 85mm f/2.0 Sonnar?
B&H and Adorama are both showing the Zeiss Ikon 85mm f/2.0 T* ZM Sonnar lens on their websites (for a paltry $2759). Is this for real? Has anyone gotten their hands on one? (If, in fact, one exists). What may be going on here?
LJS
spysmart
03-19-2007, 13:05
Can't help but thing Zeiss got it wrong with the 85 f/2 : Trying to beat Leica at their own game.
Too late, large and expensive ( doubt the will recover their development costs ). Too close to the APO-Summicon's price.
The should have put a M mount on the Contax-G 90mm f/2.8 and been done with it. I would have bought one as a lower cost carry around lens.
Why should Zeiss make a lens cheaper than anybody else? This one is meant to be one of the best in it's focal length. And they have a tradition with fast portrait lenses.
They are not in the market for lower cost lenses.
darkkavenger
03-19-2007, 13:24
Excuse me, but there are people who will fairly disagree with the spreadout thought that Leica produces the ultimate optics. ;)
Rob Skeoch
03-19-2007, 13:29
I talked with Zeiss last week about the lenses. They said it never came to market and is being re-designed.
Rob Skeoch
www.bigcameraworkshops.com
darkkavenger
03-19-2007, 13:29
Hmm sorry, seems that I interpreted spysmart's words through a very distorted "perception" lens ;)
Here's the, official :), reason for the delay.
ZM 85/2 delayed (http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9/ContentsWWWIntern/AD8FE5C3DDD4F2DAC1257267004FF18C)
Bryan Lee
03-19-2007, 13:46
There are plenty of the 90 2.0 Canadian Leicas on the market for 500 bucks. I needed a longer faster lens for a project and tried one out but for me they are not worth the hassle. Even a 75 is pushing the limitations of a Rangefinder. No offense to the forum but there are way to many great and cheep SLRs and long lenses on the market right now. What is crazy marketing here is you can buy a Zeiss ZF 85 1.4 and put it on about anything for under a grand. I would like to see some kind of high speed 60 or even 62 at 1.4 to 2.0, I would jump all over that in M Mount but 85s and 90s I use SLRs exclusivley. I just got this off their website but the dates are unclear.
Further delay of Sonnar T* 2/85 ZM
In June 2006 we announced that the market introduction of the Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* 2/85 ZM lens was postponed due to mechanical improvements. Extensive prototype testing of the Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* 2/85 ZM lens for the Zeiss Ikon camera had indicated that improvements were needed to the long term ruggedness of this first internal focusing tele lens for a rangefinder camera.
Sonnar T* 2/85 ZM
After several attempts to achieve modifications which could have been implemented in the relatively short term and did not fully deliver the intended results, we decided to perform a major redesign. This redesign will significantly increase the durability and long term precision of the Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* 2/85 ZM lens.
Due to the high standards demanded by Carl Zeiss on the precision of our products, volume production of the Sonnar T* 2/85 ZM could not start as scheduled. We will inform you accordingly when the Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* 2/85 ZM lens becomes available.
http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/Pictures/ZF%20lenses4.jpg
Don't forget about this 100mm 2.0 Makro that would be about half the price of a a 85 M mount when it comes on the market according to sources.
The 100/2.0 Makro Planar lens is a high-speed super selective tele macro lens with unique image quality. It is the first photo lens from Zeiss that features the ARRI/ZEISS Master Prime optics developed for Hollywood's movie industry, which gives it the ability to offer exceptionally selective focusing.
It offers far superior in optical performance, even wide open, from infinity to the close-focus limit at half life size.
There are plenty of the 90 2.0 Canadian Leicas on the market for 500 bucks. I needed a longer faster lens for a project and tried one out but for me they are not worth the hassle. Even a 75 is pushing the limitations of a Rangefinder.
One could use a body with a longer effective base length :)
"Excuse me, but there are people who will fairly disagree with the spreadout thought that Leica produces the ultimate optics."
yeah, but we all know that we're supposed to "know" that they're wrong ,-)
Bryan Lee
03-19-2007, 14:22
One could use a body with a longer effective base length :)
Nichts verstehen! Das ist Verboten!:D
We must have both been on the Zeiss website at the same time but you beat me to the post on the 85. I can say my Zeiss 50 2.0 is fantastic but I would love to have a 60 in M-Mount and I will be buying the ZF 100 for sure.
Bryan, the first camera I bought from self earned money was a Rollei 35TE, the next a Yashica FX-D with the intention to mate it to Zeiss glass.
Now I have a 167mt and a RTS in usable condition which I use with a 35/2.8 Distagon, a 50/1.7 Planar and a 135/2.8 Sonnar. For my Contax Gs I have the 28/2.8 Biogon, 35/2 Planar, 45/2 Planar and 90/2.8 Sonnar, even my FSU lenses are Zeiss designs :). The Schneider Kreuznach Xenar 50/2.8 on the Robot Royal is pretty close to a Zeiss Tessar.
One day I have to try something different, there is this other Lensmaker, what was its name, they work for Panasonic mostly but have a line of cameras off their own :D
Oh, the Yashica FX-D is usable too, but with a winder only. I lost the wind lever after more than 20 years.
Bryan Lee
03-19-2007, 14:50
Bryan, the first camera I bought from self earned money was a Rollei 35TE, the next a Yashica FX-D with the intention to mate it to Zeiss glass.
Now I have a 167mt and a RTS in usable condition which I use with a 35/2.8 Distagon, a 50/1.7 Planar and a 135/2.8 Sonnar. For my Contax Gs I have the 28/2.8 Biogon, 35/2 Planar, 45/2 Planar and 90/2.8 Sonnar, even my FSU lenses are Zeiss designs :). The Schneider Kreuznach Xenar 50/2.8 on the Robot Royal is pretty close to a Zeiss Tessar.
One day I have to try something different, there is this other Lensmaker, what was its name, they work for Panasonic mostly but have a line of cameras off their own :D
Oh, the Yashica FX-D is usable too, but with a winder only. I lost the wind lever after more than 20 years.
I knew you were a Zeiss fan but I didn't know you were drinking their koolaid! Long live Zeiss and if I see anything with a red dot on it around here Ill dump a 30 round clip into it,,,,,,,,,,, Just kidding of course :D
I sold off what little Leica stuff I had over the last year and I think I'm now down to one camera strap at the moment.
spysmart
03-19-2007, 15:03
Sorry I wasn't trying to belittle Zeiss, or put Leica on a pedestal:
I bought a ZM50 f/2 because my Leica 50M f/2.8 ( current model ) flares really badly. To counter: the ZM50 does not feel as good as Leica, it has a bit of backlash in the focussing.
Also just bought a VC 35 pancake because my 35 Summilux ASPH is too often just too large ( and is also a bit reflection prone ).
The Zeiss 15mm, and 85mm seem to be cases of 'we can do better than anyone else : if we so choose' - which can sometimes be just what's required.
As I had a 90 f/2 M for a while, I know it's a bit large for wandering around with.
So if Zeiss had first put effort into a practical compact 90 f/2.8, it would have been much more useful to me than the ever delayed showcase 85 f/2 with IF.
I would like to see some kind of high speed 60 or even 62 at 1.4 to 2.0, I would jump all over that in M Mount but 85s and 90s I use SLRs exclusivley. I just got this off their website but the dates are unclear.
There is a Hexanon 60/1.2, I believe in LTM.
While I am waiting to buy an affortable modern Zeiss ZM 85/2, I am happily using my Nikkor 85/2 and 105/2.5 on my M3.
Life is too short to be loyal to one brand. For > US 2000, I would think twice if I shouldn't get a black LTM mount Nikkor 85/1.5
instead.
Roland.
The Zeiss 15mm, and 85mm seem to be cases of 'we can do better than anyone else : if we so choose' - which can sometimes be just what's required.
Yes, most probably.
shutterflower
03-19-2007, 15:45
B&H and Adorama are both showing the Zeiss Ikon 85mm f/2.0 T* ZM Sonnar lens on their websites (for a paltry $2759). Is this for real? Has anyone gotten their hands on one? (If, in fact, one exists). What may be going on here?
LJS
give me a break
how about the 75mm f/2.5 heliar...? Hmm. $300? Sounds nice. Maybe I'll put those $2500 into an M7.
give me a break
how about the 75mm f/2.5 heliar...? Hmm. $300? Sounds nice. Maybe I'll put those $2500 into an M7.
Or a ZI, saves another 1000 :)
As I had a 90 f/2 M for a while, I know it's a bit large for wandering around with.
So if Zeiss had first put effort into a practical compact 90 f/2.8, it would have been much more useful to me than the ever delayed showcase 85 f/2 with IF.
Which 90 Cron are you talking about? I have the pre-ASPH model which is just a hair longer than the 75 Cron. It's more compact than you might think and actually weighs the same as the current Elmarit-M. I bought it after runnning out of f/stops a few times on the thin TE.
What the 15 and 85 ZM have are floating elements for close-range correction, a first for any RF lens (and is clearly what the C-Sonnar needs. :-P) The mechanism interacting with the RF cam is complicated enough that Zeiss decided to do it themselves, rather than entrusting the process to Cosina. And don't forget that the Zeiss Ikon camera itself was also delayed because of a re-design of the RF which focuses less closely than originally announced.
OTOH, if Zeiss just re-mounted the G Sonnar, I'm sure there'd be even more jeering, especially from those who already own the G or C/Y version (which were basically the same lens.) Many others would also scoff and insist that the 90 Hexanon, the Apo-Lanthar, the Tele-Elmarits or even the Elmar-C as "more cost-effective", and thus better, solutions. :rolleyes:
G Sonnar and 90 Hexanon-M:
http://www.contaxcameras.co.uk/assets/gseries/lenses/a-sonnar90mmf2.8.gifhttp://www3.xitek.com/bingqiku/konica/rangefinder/image/90mm-st.gif
There are plenty of the 90 2.0 Canadian Leicas on the market for 500 bucks. I needed a longer faster lens for a project and tried one out but for me they are not worth the hassle. Even a 75 is pushing the limitations of a Rangefinder.
My 90 Cron focuses perfectly at f/2 and 1 m on my 0.85 M6TTL, thank you very much. :D
Bryan Lee
03-23-2007, 13:13
My 90 Cron focuses perfectly at f/2 and 1 m on my 0.85 M6TTL, thank you very much. :D
No criticism intended for anybody else. For me I started with SLRs so when I go long I'm more comfortable using one. In the end everybody has to sort out what works for them and go for it. This is interesting to type about anyway and I am looking hard at the ZF long lenses.
I hope that when they redo the mechanics, they also increase the focus throw a little more. It's a very fast focus like the 75/2 APO Summicron and I feel it hurts the ability to precisely focus the lens thus take advantage of it's great optics.
I have the pre-ASPH model which is just a hair longer than the 75 Cron. ... snipped ... What the 15 and 85 ZM have are floating elements for close-range correction, a first for any RF lens ...
Not to ***-*** the new 85mm/2 ZM, which will surely be a fine optic. However, though Zeiss announced their tele before the Leica 75mm/2, which also has floating elements, Zeiss is tardy in manufacturing and marketing their lens. Leica actually produced and marketed the first floating element RF lenses with the 75mm/2 two years ago and the 50mm/1.4 ASPH later.
My 90 Cron focuses perfectly at f/2 and 1 m on my 0.85 M6TTL, thank you very much. :D
My 90 apo asph is very disappointing performance at less than 8-10 feet even at 5.6. It's soft even compared to my v1 90 Elmarit. I was so disappointed that I dent it in for service and to ber checked and the report was it's perfectly fine. Beyond 10 ft it's excellent but much of my work is close and I want tack sharp images. I don't take much stock in Erwin P's reports but even he reported it was the poorest performer of the 85/90 lenses he tested at close range. The Canon 85 1.2 out performed it in his test and the 85 f2 Sonnar prototype that he had beat them all. Since I work close with my 90 I'm planning on buying the Sonnar as soon as it's released. I may ditch the summicron apo.
Overall I'm much more pleased with my Zeiss ZM lenses than I am my current crop of Leica glass. I would immagine the Sonnar will follow the others in performance with even better build. Not that there's any problem with the build of the ZM's.
Ronald M
03-25-2007, 17:11
90 pre ASph and ASPH and the 90 2.8 current all go soft up close. The 90 4.0 macro does not.
Leica was right, the lens is OK
RObert Budding
03-25-2007, 17:26
I picked up a very nice 85/2 Zeiss Jena (post-war) lens for about $300 (when I factor in the CLA). So I see no need for a Sonnar an M-mount.
Berliner
04-01-2007, 06:02
Where is that CZ 85? Any word yet?
RE:90 AA--big, heavy, somewhat soft until f5.6. I traded this in for 90 Elmarit-M: Smaller, lighter, performance wide open is fine, and sharper from f4 on. Though the size was the primary factor. I had/have no focus problems on either wide open, at short distances, or otherwise, on an M6ttl, and MP. I use/have used Leica, CZ, Konica, & VC lenses on my Leicas. The CZ wides are great, the Leica 50 & 90's are great, the VC, ultra fast wides, and ultra wide wides are great. We are very lucky to have so many brands of excellent M lenses ranging from VERY affordable, to legendary, sell-your-first-born- expensive. Even in the LH/A publications they ACTUALLY discuss the CZ's, and VC's M-mounts, without disdain...
[quote=Berliner] Where is that CZ 85? Any word yet?
The word today from Richard Schleuning of Zeis USA is that the Sonnar 85mm f2 will start shippint in about 2 months from now. Based on the images and a review at the link below it appears to beat the similar Leica lenses.
http://www.imx.nl/photosite/zeiss/test85/t004.html
Zoran
sepiareverb
05-08-2007, 12:08
I really like the way the Zeisse render colors. The G's and the ZM 28 are great at color. I'm just got the first roll of color going with the ZM25, but I will bet it will be much the same.
Check this link to the Carl Zeiss web site http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9/ContentsWWWIntern/F5F4F7360656084AC12572ED004641F7 .
Bullwinkle
06-13-2007, 20:40
Check this link to the Carl Zeiss web site http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9/ContentsWWWIntern/F5F4F7360656084AC12572ED004641F7 .
Here's the text. It must have just been posted within the last couple of days:
Available Soon: Sonnar T* 2/85 ZM
and Distagon T* 2,8/15 ZM
Availability and delivery of the Sonnar T* 2/85 ZM was delayed until now. Finally, we were able to improve the telephoto lens in such way that it meets the high standard requirements of Carl Zeiss. Thanks to which we started the serial production immediately.
The first batch of the Distagon T* 2.8/15 ZM has been delivered completely and we have started with the second batch now.
We ask you kindly to have a little patience as due to a large demand of theses lenses the advance orders must be settled with priority. To receive such a lens, please pass your order to your trusted local photo dealer as soon as possible.
haagen_dazs
07-02-2007, 18:36
it seems like this 85/2 lens is coming in JUNE
http://www.bigcameraworkshops.com/default2.asp
if there is another delay I will definitively have a look at the new Leica Summarit 90mm. It is expected for November and has further advantages (not so big, much cheaper)
Nachkebia
08-06-2007, 03:12
Indeed Summarits will bring alot of competition in that segment...
indeed - and the more I think about the 90mm the more interesting it gets for me. Minimal focus distance is 1m - fine for me. Maximum aperture is 2.5 - fine for me - even 2.8 would be sufficient. And I am not sure whether the "floating elements" will work properly from the beginning or whether there will be some "surprises" as with the C-Sonnar. And the price difference ...
The only doubts I have is that the framelines show 85mm while the lens has 90mm - not sure whether this will be a problem or not.
The only doubts I have is that the framelines show 85mm while the lens has 90mm - not sure whether this will be a problem or not.
The 85mm framelines on the ZI are spot on for 90mm lenses. Shouldn't be a problem.
Lars Menzel
08-09-2007, 03:53
if there is another delay I will definitively have a look at the new Leica Summarit 90mm. It is expected for November and has further advantages (not so big, much cheaper)
Don't worry.
I will get my 2.0/85 tomorrow. :-))
My merchant has called me today that it is in Shop now!
I can't wait till then.
So no more delay.
Lars F. Menzel
PS: You don't get floating Elements from Leica so far.
thomasw_
08-09-2007, 07:44
The Zeiss 15mm, and 85mm seem to be cases of 'we can do better than anyone else : if we so choose' - which can sometimes be just what's required.
I guess you mean by required, that this product's price point is required by zeiss in the market? I can say that for me, however, this lens is way beyond my means, hardly required perhaps only dreamed:) For the hobbyist, workingman like myself, we can save and afford the great zm wides 18 mm to 50mm; but for the 15 and 85 FLs, the VC lenses and the used market offer very fine alternatives, particularly when one considers how rarely these FLs are used by most RF users. I think you have to be very, very wealthy or a pro photographer like xray to buy the specialty ZM 15 and 85 lenses.
respectfully, thomas
Don't worry.
I will get my 2.0/85 tomorrow. :-))
My merchant has called me today that it is in Shop now!
I can't wait till then.
Then it would be great if you could share your impressions as soon and as detailed as possible :-) of course test shots would be also very much appreciated.
Lars Menzel
08-10-2007, 12:41
My first shots with the new 2/85.
All with aperture 2.0 on my M8.
This are only testshots no good fotos you know ;-)
Lars F. Menzel
haagen_dazs
08-10-2007, 12:44
have the USA dealers started taking orders on this lens ?
Lars Menzel
08-10-2007, 12:45
And now the same pictures with details.
Lars F. Menzel
erikhaugsby
08-10-2007, 12:46
My first shots with the new 2/85.
All with aperture 2.0 on my M8.
This are only testshots no good fotos you know ;-)
Lars F. Menzel
What lens is hiding in the plastic wrapping in the first picture?
Lars Menzel
08-10-2007, 12:50
have the USA dealers started taking orders on this lens ?
Sorry i dont know this.
Hopefully ist starts soon, because this is a very strong lens in my opinion.
Lars F. Menzel
Lars Menzel
08-10-2007, 12:52
What lens is hiding in the plastic wrapping in the first picture?
It is the zeiss 2/35
Lars F. Menzel
perhaps you can post a picture of your M8 with this lens attached - would be interesting to see how it looks on the camera.
How is the handling of the lens?
Lars Menzel
08-10-2007, 14:08
perhaps you can post a picture of your M8 with this lens attached - would be interesting to see how it looks on the camera.
How is the handling of the lens?
Here there are.
Handling is very smooth and solid.
Tomorrow i will test it in Dresden outside.
Lars F. Menzel
haagen_dazs
08-10-2007, 14:20
whheee heee. that is some nice chuck of glass :) it does have an odd shape.. like a cut off funnel
Lars Menzel
08-10-2007, 22:28
whheee heee. that is some nice chuck of glass :) it does have an odd shape.. like a cut off funnel
:)
Yes the shape is odd but it handles very fine and
i think this is for the floting elements.
You can really use it well in the near distance as you can see.
Lars F. Menzel
Lars F. Menzel
PS: You don't get floating Elements from Leica so far.
Yes we do, Summicron 75 has a floating element.
/Erik
Lars Menzel
08-11-2007, 00:23
Yes we do, Summicron 75 has a floating element.
/Erik
Oh that's new for me and good news.
Lars
Here there are.
Handling is very smooth and solid.
Tomorrow i will test it in Dresden outside.
Lars F. Menzel
wow - that is a lens - very uncommon shape
Nachkebia
08-12-2007, 22:27
All I can say, it is a huuuge monster :)
Looks so very cool! Can't wait for some outside photos ! In colour too, please!
So far it does look like a true Sonnar! Tasty!!!. Need to start saving money.
Mmmmmm. Wish I could get my hands on one too.
Xray,
Did you consider the Leica 75 APO Summicron asph? I recall that this lens did very well close up and was pretty well as good in this regard as the 85 sonnar according to Putz. Are you not a fan of the 75 FL or were there other reasons that you are waiting for the Sonnar rather than grabbing the available 75 apo cron? Those 75 'cron MTFs look astounding at F2 and if it is as sharp close up as it is supposed to be, sounds great (albeit beyond my budget). That 85 Sonnar looks a lot bigger than the 75 Cron too. Just curious! I have a 90 Elmarit M but tend not to shoot portraits so find this smaller not so fast lens plenty fast enought for me.
Rgds
sepiareverb
08-29-2007, 08:54
It does seem to come down to the 75/2 or the 85/2 for me. I'm currently shooting with the Rollei 80/2.8, and like it thus far, but it seems that it is a little lacking when it comes to huge enlargements- time will tell, I'm finally really getting the hang of the Rollei- that is, settling into the d.o.f. and keeping my shutter speed high enough for it- talk about heavy.
Vincenzo Maielli
09-05-2007, 11:38
Thi price is very high, both for the ZM 85 and 15, because these lenses are entirely designed and produced in Germany.
The other lenses of the range are designed in Germany, then the barrels and single gass elements are sended in Japan for the assembling.
Ciao.
summilux
09-05-2007, 17:53
nice job, lars.
noimmunity
10-15-2007, 14:06
FWIW, I noticed the price of the Zeiss 85/2 on web sellers in Japan is about 250,000 yen, which is currently US$2129.00 . The lens itself is not available, but the price listing is there. That price is consistent with the general 20% discount on Zeiss prices in Japan. Now, if only I can find a like new used one at the same 35-40% discount I got on the Biogon 25.
-jon
Ronald M
10-15-2007, 16:25
85 1.4 is nice and they should make one. In the mean time a 85 2.0 or 2.8 would make non millionairs happy
Xray,
Did you consider the Leica 75 APO Summicron asph? I recall that this lens did very well close up and was pretty well as good in this regard as the 85 sonnar according to Putz. Are you not a fan of the 75 FL or were there other reasons that you are waiting for the Sonnar rather than grabbing the available 75 apo cron? Those 75 'cron MTFs look astounding at F2 and if it is as sharp close up as it is supposed to be, sounds great (albeit beyond my budget). That 85 Sonnar looks a lot bigger than the 75 Cron too. Just curious! I have a 90 Elmarit M but tend not to shoot portraits so find this smaller not so fast lens plenty fast enought for me.
Rgds
I have a 75 summilux that I'm quite pleased with but the additional reach is needed at times. I do use the summilux quite often but like the 90/85 FL for some subjects. To me the 75 is just a little tighter gropped normal not a tele. Also the asph Leica glass seems a bit more harsh than the non asph. I'm also quite fond of my 25 Biogon, 35 Biogon and 50 Planar. If the Sonnar looks like the sonars that I have for my Hasselblads and follows the character of the other 35 Zeiss lenses then it's a real winner in my book. Another reason for not looking at the summicron 75 is the problems I've had with 4 recent Leica lenses. Unless something spectacular happens that I feel I want in Leica then I don't think I'll buy any more new or current leica lenses or bodies for that matter.
I am really curious how this 85 Sonnar will fare in real life, also in terms of handling. I got recently the Makro Planar 100/2 for my FM3A, and from the first roll shot on SCALA pushed to 400, I can already see that this lens is beyond anything I've had in this FL range, and this includes the 85/1.4 Planar as well. In comparison the 135/2 Nikkor or the 90/2.8 Elmarit M, make you laugh. This is already true at full aperture, and includes incredibly "personal" OOF rendition. The only problem I have encountered, is that having made some test shots for focusing accuracy, I have found it back focuses by about 1 cm from 1 m distance on my Nikon, and this is a problem, since makro capabilities are very much a part of the game. Just to show you the effect, here's a handheld shot at f2.0:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/59177039@N00/1558957503/
and here another handheld at f 2.8:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/59177039@N00/1558660052/
if you enlarge a bit, you can read the announcement on the door.
The point of writing this, is that the 85/2 Sonnar is, at least on paper, the only Zeiss lens with MTF graphs better than these of the Makro Planar 100/2, it should be more compact, and hopefully on the ZI with the 1.35 magnifier, it will focus with maximum precision. So I am eagerly waiting for the comments of the users from first real life tests.
I have found it back focuses by about 1 cm from 1 m distance on my Nikon
Back focusing on SLRs does not have the same sources as on a rangefinder. On a manual focus camera, it's normally not the fault of the lens; you focus through the lens, so you see what you focus at. The light path through the lens stays the same, regardless of whether the mirror in the camera is up or down, so if results on film differ from those in the viewfinder there is a problem with the camera. Maybe the bayonet-screen distance is not identical to the bayonet-film distance, or focusing was imprecise - not uncommon with macro lenses.
Philipp
Philipp, you probably are right, in the sense that there must be a fault with the calibration of my FM3A, I will repeat the test on the Fuji S3 to see if it is the same. I focused using the 1.35 magnifier, so it really was accurate.
Back focusing on SLRs does not have the same sources as on a rangefinder. On a manual focus camera, it's normally not the fault of the lens; you focus through the lens, so you see what you focus at. The light path through the lens stays the same, regardless of whether the mirror in the camera is up or down, so if results on film differ from those in the viewfinder there is a problem with the camera. Maybe the bayonet-screen distance is not identical to the bayonet-film distance, or focusing was imprecise - not uncommon with macro lenses.
Philipp
That could apply, but it is as likely to be focus shift - if you're viewing with the aperture fully open on an SLR, then shoot at a smaller aperture, it's possible the plane of focus can change.
That could apply, but it is as likely to be focus shift - if you're viewing with the aperture fully open on an SLR, then shoot at a smaller aperture, it's possible the plane of focus can change.
It's possible theoretically if the lens has undercorrected spherical aberrations, but on a Makro-Planar I wouldn't expect this to be the case, firstly because it's a macro lens that tend to be heavily corrected especially for the close focus range, secondly because it's a Planar. It's not as if this is a specialty lens like the ZM Sonnar 50/f1.5, which deliberately uses a lens formula with undercorrected aberrations to recreate a certain "look".
Philipp
jsuominen
10-17-2007, 07:54
The only problem I have encountered, is that having made some test shots for focusing accuracy, I have found it back focuses by about 1 cm from 1 m distance on my Nikon
I once had focusing problem with my Olympus OM2n with all lenses. The problem was mirror position. The mirror didn't return to the right angle after shot. From viewfinder all looked fine, but on film the shots were not correctly focused. My problem was solved after changing the mirror return spring (or some other part?) in reapair shop. Anyway, this can't be your problem. :)
It's possible theoretically if the lens has undercorrected spherical aberrations, but on a Makro-Planar I wouldn't expect this to be the case, firstly because it's a macro lens that tend to be heavily corrected especially for the close focus range,Philipp
This argument is based on the premise that under-corrected spherical aberration is the only possible cause of focus shift when the lens is stopped down. Can anyone give a reference that this is in fact the case?
OTOH, I doubt that lens registration has anything to do with the 2/100 Makro-Planar mis-focusing at 1m. After all it's an SLR lens. Errors at such distances only matter on the distance scale because they are automatically compensated by the TTL finder.
I strongly suspect that this lens has the largest physical aperture among mfogiel's F-mount lenses, so that any focus error (caused by either user or camera) is going to be the least masked by DOF.
No offense to the forum but there are way to many great and cheep SLRs and long lenses on the market right now. What is crazy marketing here is you can buy a Zeiss ZF 85 1.4 and put it on about anything for under a grand.
http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/Pictures/ZF%20lenses4.jpg
Well said.
In addition, if RF is compactness in sake of reportage and street photography, they are tons of smaller 85/2 lenses out there, even SLR lenses. Obviously it isn't even a telephoto design like i.e. Canons 85/1.8 45 years ago, but a long Gaussian design.
I understand that Biogon designs have to be badly long for performance reasons, but not a 85/2.
Mazurka, I also use the 85/1.4 Planar, but since it is softer, (especially at F1.4) than the Makro Planar, it is more difficult to see a small misfocus problem. I agree with Bryan Lee, that in general it makes more sense to buy an $900 Planar 85/1.4 ZF, or even use one of the great 85 lenses made for Contax, or other brands, rather than pay $2500 for the 85 Sonnar ZM, but believe it or not, the absence of the mirror slap, and also, in case of an 0.85 Leica or the ZI, the very precise RF focusing, make a difference when it comes to getting a fast grab shot with a tele. To illustrate the point, here you are with a couple of shots made with the Makro Planar 100, the first one at f2.8 and about 1/2000 sec :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/59177039@N00/1559821218/
and this one at f5.6 and 1/125 sec, as you can see the result sucks:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/59177039@N00/1558937885/
In my perception the RF's gain in image quality over SLR's, because of:
- absence of mirror slap
- more precise and fast focusing (most of the time)
- superior lens quality (on average), especially in the wide to normal range
- all these factors result in a shorter effective shutter speed which translates directly into superior image quality
In the 85mm or longer domain the factors of superior optical quality and more precise focusing start waning, but the mirror slap absence is always present, this is why a good 85/90mm RF lens is always good to have...
2 simple test shots - I think I used 5.6 or 8. Wide open the lens is soft - but maybe thats also because DOF gets very small.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=71811&ppuser=6989 (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=71810&cat=recent&limit=recent)
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=71811&ppuser=6989
You said it is soft at f2.0 ??? This seems strange to me, my Makro Planar is bitingly sharp at f2.0, and is diffraction limited at f4.0, I think. From MTF charts your 85/2 should probably peak at f4.0 too, if not at f2.8 in the center... Sometimes Zeiss makes the widest aperture soft to facilitate flattering portraits, it would be nice to know what they were after...
maybe you are right - just had a look at the wide open shots - it seems that I did not focus very properly. For portraits I am used to the C-Sonnar and focus on the ear to correct the front focus. And the 85 mm appears to have no front-focus issue. And of course the DOF is really small.
When I was saying, I was anxious to see some shots from the Sonnar 85/2 ZM, because it was the only Zeiss lens capable on paper (MTF) of more sharpness than the Makro Planar 100/2 ZF, it was because the MP 100/2 is probably the best short tele lens I've ever seen. My 90/2.8 Elmarit M in comparison performs like a bottom of a jelly jar. To show you what I mean, here's a shot made handheld at f2.8 on Delta 400:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/59177039@N00/1794817250/
So, I would welcome some B&W shots from the early owners to make myself an idea...
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