View Full Version : How many versions of the 50mm f/1.4?
I'm looking to upgrade my 50mm Cron to the Lux, but I'm not sure how many different versions are out there? I have seen 2 websites that say there are only 2 versions, but I have seen at least 3 different versions so far. One has the 43mm thread size; one has 46mm thread size, and the latest one has the retractable lens hood. I like the 50mm f/1.4 with the 43 thread size, and I'm about to order one, but I want to make sure there are not more than one variation of this one. Can anyone point me to a reliable source that tells me exactly how many different 50 luxs are out there, with images to guide me?
http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/LC5045/2.html
http://www.adorama.com/LC5014MN.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&kw=LE5014ALB6B&is=USA&Q=&O=productlist&sku=462681
You could check Erwin Puts's book on all lenses Leica,which can be downloaded from his website .imx.nl. It's encyclopedic, though pedantic. An excellent source of mildly biased information.
LJS
xayraa33
02-25-2007, 05:11
this lens came out in 1959
it was redesigned in 1962
and improved again in 1978
and the again in 1998
From Stephen Gandy's Leica lens list (http://cameraquest.com/mlenses.htm):
Two optical designs. Chrome or Black. With an average production of only about 2,000 per year, the 50 Summilux is actually a rarer lens than is generally recognized. Note closest focus is 40."
First version 1959-1961 Chrome
Second version with an improved optical formula 1961 to 1968 aprox, chrome, from number 1844001.
Third version, same optics but black anodized
Fourth version, same optics but "50" on barrel
Fifth version, same optics but built in shade from about 1995
Titanium version introduced 1997, limited production future collectible for classic Titanium M6
And here's KB Camera's take on the topic (http://www.leicagallery.com/summilux50mm.htm):
Here's mine. 43mm, second version, shipped in 1964.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Seaslug/CLwithSummilux7.jpg
This specimen is the only Summilux I have personal experience with. I find it to be a wonderfully neutral lens with no bad habits. The bokeh wide-open is absolutely delicious, with no doubling. But...it's a heavy lens. (Edit) Just weighed it: Exactly 300 grams without caps or filters.
That said, it's an absolute keeper, and it's presently the only fifty I have. I don't feel ill-equipped in that regard.
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xayraa33
02-25-2007, 05:52
look here to Mr. Puts write up.
http://www.imx.nl/photosite/leica/rseries/testr/r14-50.html
I love my old Nikkor and Canon glass it is true, but if some modern Leica glass came my way I would certainly use it.
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(sidebar) Have we ever had a thread in this forum for nothing but pictures taken through Summiluxae? Something like the Noctilux Challenge thread?
Should we start one?
xayraa33
02-25-2007, 06:15
oh no!! I stepped into SLR territory.
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I always go back to KB Camera
http://www.kbcamera.com/summilux50mm.htm
Rumours are the first version of the Summilux had 48mm thread and was built by Canon. :)
Gabriel M.A.
02-25-2007, 08:26
Rumours are the first version of the Summilux had 48mm thread and was built by Canon. :)
Rumours aren't that, but there are some rumors that I came from another planet. ;)
Alright, just to muddy the waters further here is yet another source, the Leica Pocket Book 7th ed. (Oct. 2002) from Hove Books, pp. 137 to 139.
Type I
Production period: 1959-1961
Serial nrs: 1640601-1844000
Total production: 13,000 bayonet, 550 screw mount
Filter: E43
Type II
Production period: 1962-current
Serial nrs: 1844001-current
Total production: na
Filter: E43, later E46
The Hove book does not make the distinction in the Type II between the earlier E43 that focuses to 1M closest, and the later E46 that focuses to 0.7M and has the retractable hood (you can still buy this lens new). So according to Hove there are three types including the new(ish) ASPH.
bob cole
02-25-2007, 08:52
There are three versions of the 50mm/f1.4 Summilux for the Leica M-series:
1. 1959-1961... #1,645,300 to 1,844,000 ... E-43 filter...weight: 285 grams ...available in chrome and painted black
2. 1962-1994... #1,844,001 to not available... E-43 filter...weight: 360 grams...available in chrome, enameled black and anodized black...also gold plated and platinum plated in limited numbers...
3. 1995............. serial numbers not available... E-46 filter...weight: 275 grams black & chrome...380 grams titanium ... built-in telescopic hood...available in black, chrome and titanium
Ref.: Sartorius, Identifying Leica Lenses...
All versions are common except the first version black and the second version special series 1913-1983 of which 410 were made and are rare...
Post deleted by posters request
Rumours aren't that, but there are some rumors that I came from another planet. ;)
I started those, sorry. :o
SteveRD1
02-26-2007, 05:52
Hey Joe, good to see you here! The 1st one at Calument is the Pre ASPH lux. I have never used it but came close to buying it a couple of times. I have seen them much cheaper though, in the $1400 range new, so $2k is a bit steep. Supposedly it is a bit softer than the ASPH version wide open.
The 2nd is the ASPH and current version, the best 50 ever made IMO, but it should be at $2800
The 3rd link you gave to BH is the LHSA lux, which only so many were made. It does not have the built in hood of the current ASPH or non ASPH version, but rather a screw on hood. It comes in a special collector box and would seem to have more resale value down the line. I believe it is black laquer compared to black chrome. It also is 43mm, not 46.
I recently picked up a summilux but got the wrong color so I sent it back to buy the black. I am buying today actually and am trying to decide between the LHSA or the standard ASPH myself. If you do get one, you will not be sorry. It is probably the best lens I have ever used, EVER.
Good luck!
SteveRD1
02-26-2007, 05:52
Hey Joe, good to see you here! The 1st one at Calument is the Pre ASPH lux. I have never used it but came close to buying it a couple of times. I have seen them much cheaper though, in the $1400 range new, so $2k is a bit steep. Supposedly it is a bit softer than the ASPH version wide open.
The 2nd is the ASPH and current version, the best 50 ever made IMO, but it should be at $2800
The 3rd link you gave to BH is the LHSA lux, which only so many were made. It does not have the built in hood of the current ASPH or non ASPH version, but rather a screw on hood. It comes in a special collector box and would seem to have more resale value down the line. I believe it is black laquer compared to black chrome. It also is 43mm, not 46.
I recently picked up a summilux but got the wrong color so I sent it back to buy the black. I am buying today actually and am trying to decide between the LHSA or the standard ASPH myself. If you do get one, you will not be sorry. It is probably the best lens I have ever used, EVER.
Good luck!
Thank You All for pointing me in the right direction.
Steve, I have been showing off your homeless gallery to everyone man. I cannot even find the words to tell you how awsome that gallery is. I'm still waiting for the saga to continue.
Ok, I see you have the M8 and a 50mm f/1.4, but do you still have the Noctilux too? Did you sell the MP?
SteveRD1
02-27-2007, 13:06
Thanks for the kind comments on my gallery. I have started to continue with the M8, BUT I prefer the feel of the film shots in that series. Anyway, I do have a noct and a 50 ASPH. I had a Noct, sold it to fund a 50 ASPH. Missed the Noct, got another used one, and am now selling the Noct again as that 50 Lux ASPH is just too good to take off my camera. I have problems :)
Good luck choosing a 50. Cant go wrong with any of them. BTW, I saw your film shots at DPreview. Good stuff! How do you like scanning? Slow huh? Anyway, keep on shooting!
nikon_junkie
02-27-2007, 18:10
Is the Noct still available?
Had the first version 50 Lux and found it had a special look all its own. It was a real bargain for $800.
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I see you over at dpreview. You and I and some others were just talking about B&W film and Leica's two day's ago. That and I think scanning our neg's. As I recall you pay @ $1.45 or was it $1.85 while I have to pay $1.99 for each roll to be developed.
I have the 1959-1961 version of the Summilux 50mm f/1.4. It's very nice, and so is my M5.
Imagine we post about film over there. I think that's a good thing as some others are interested in shooting film at that digital forum. Especially on Phills Leica Talk Forum. It's getting a reputation as being a good group.
--
Artist Eyes
Hey Peter,
I remember the discussion we had concerning the film. I actually got a 50mm Lux today--the E43, which I think is the 4th version (358####) pre-asaph?
I picked it up from KEH, but I swear it has never been used before. I have noticed that it's not as easy to focus as the Cron, but I can make an adjustment by keeping both eyes open when focusing. I also ordered 50 rolls of the Ilford ASA400 XP2, and 2 all black leica labeled soft releases for my M6.
Hopefully, I'll get a chance to push a roll of the ilford through the lux this weekend. I will definitely share my results.
Here's a bit of trivia on this question. If you look back through pre-E46 Leica literature, there seems to have been a change in the weight of the E43 version. Until some time in the 1980s it's listed at 360g. Later in the 80s it is listed as 320g. Seems like a change in the mount, since the optics didn't change. Any takers?
Innerimager
03-22-2007, 23:43
and am now selling the Noct again as that 50 Lux ASPH is just too good to take off my camera. I have problems :)
Steve- I just received my new 50 ,lux asph today, and like you, can see selling the noct. It is absolutely stunning, and wonderful to carry and focus. Also like you, I originally ordered a chrome version but switched it to black like all my others. (Chrome M8 and now M7). Just a fantastic lens.....Peter
Like Steve, I had a Noct. and sold it to finance the 50/1.4 asph. but I can't see getting another Noct. because the 50/1.4 asph. is so damned good. Steve touched on an intersting point regarding Noctilux vs. Summilux asph. now that the M8 is here. I would think the Noctilux would be a better performer on the M8 than on film bodies with the crop factor removing much of it's fall-off at f/1 (of course you can also crop film). Also compaints of excessive noise at higher ISO's on the M8 makes f/1 more desirable for hand held shots than f/1.4. Maybe Steve could post some comparisions of the 2 lenses before selling his Noctilux. His comments about prefering film to digital makes me feel better about waiting on the M8 as I love my MP and can't justify the funds for a digital body until processing E6 becomes much more problematic in a few years. Two of three local labs have now stopped E6 processing in Baltimore.
It's too bad noct prices have gone through the roof, since I'd still like to get one. To me it's performace is the unique look at f1-f1.4. I haven't seen one at a garage sale yet though.......
I'd also like to see a pre-asph vs. asph summilux print comparison (not on screen) under normal conditions to see the differences between the two. Anybody out there have both?
HenningW
03-23-2007, 09:37
I've had the first version (1960) and the second version (1969). Optically they were only slightly different and the mount was essentially the same. Sometime in the 80's (?) the mount changed and the knurling went from the scalloped to the little square ridges. I think that's when the weight went down. Still E43, still the same optics, still 1m close focussing. Then the whole mount redesign with integral hood, 0.7m close focussing and E46 but no optical change. Never got that one as I was shooting with the Nocts from the 70's on. Got the ASPH now but am keeping the Noct. Completely different lenses, but the ASPH is outstanding. Like pretty much all of the other ASPH lenses, you dial in the aperture to change dof and for the light conditions; not for the performance. Except in critical testing, f/1.4 gives you the same performance as f/5.6.
The LHSA ASPH has the same optics as the regular ASPH, but it is huge, and it only focusses to 1m. Not for me.
Henning
The LHSA Asph. version focuses down to 0.7m, not 1m as seen on pictures at Popflash.photo.
Simon Larbalestier
03-24-2007, 04:05
I had the 43mm version and it had the clip on hood and was limited to 1m focus. Beautiful lens but 1m focus limit eventually forced me to upgrade to the BP LHSA ASPH which is still 43mm separate lenshood and 0.7 focus.
examples of the 43mm 50/1.4 and the 35/1.4 pre ASPH can be seen at this link
which details several bodies of work inc some 120 RF images as well.
http://www.anarchyimages.com/featured-simon.php
can't post anything with the BP 50 ASPH yet but i will.....
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