View Full Version : the s2 is here...
back alley
02-21-2007, 15:15
...in my hands!
what a lovely camera, very solid and a bit chunkier than it's contax brother. it fits my hand nicely. the finder is green which is different, a bit canon p like, if i recall correctly, in it ease of focus.
the moment i saw/held it i knew this camera was going to get a nice cardinal red cover from camera leather. it just screams sexy!!
but i may not get the 35 lens. it may, like the lla, remain a 50mm camera.
the reality is the finder on the zi ruins every other camera/finder for my eyes. the zi and lenses will remain my primary kit.
that is not to say that the nikon will get neglected - it will get used alot.
i already know and like this camera.
i also got the domke 803 bag today and it way bigger than i had imagined. i doubt that i would ever use it as a camera bag but it seems perfect for a day bag, much much nicer than my backpack. so i can carry all my crap plus a camera/extra lens/film, whatever.
i like it!!
it is a good day.
joe
back alley
02-21-2007, 15:58
thanks brian.
i think a j-12 might be fun to play with.
joe
Congrats, Joe.
I would love to see some photos of your three fast 50 Sonnars next to each other !
Roland.
back alley
02-21-2007, 16:18
now that would be pornographic eh?
joe
Glad you like the camera.
back alley
02-21-2007, 16:19
Glad you like the camera.
it has a wonderful feel to it.
i already prefer the feel of it to the contax.
amazing what a mm or 2 can make.
joe
Hmm, tomorrow my 50/2 Nikkor will arrive, so my S2 will have 2 eyes to see out of.
Glad to hear you like it.
weeks ago, someone declared that he needed nothing more.......
Congratulations, Anyway, Joe.
now that would be pornographic eh?
joe
:)
I should have said "photos taken by the three lenses next to each other"; whatever "portraits" you want to take, just no Joe bathroom mirror shots, please :)
Roland.
back alley
02-21-2007, 17:16
rover, do me a favour please, have a look through the finders of the p and the s2 and compare them for me.
nothing to in depth, just want to know if you think they are similar.
joe
Up off my lazy fat bottom.
Back to you in a second.
Glad the S2 made it to you in good shape. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
My Canon P has a clear finder, no tint, like the Nikon S3, etc. To me, a green tinted VF is a trademark of the Zeiss Ikon RFs (Contax, Contessa, etc.).
rover, do me a favour please, have a look through the finders of the p and the s2 and compare them for me.
nothing to in depth, just want to know if you think they are similar.
joe
back alley
02-21-2007, 17:34
sorry, didn't mean that the tint was similar.
when i look thru the s2 i am reminded of the p but not sure why.
Perhaps the 1x magnification (or lack of minification)?
sorry, didn't mean that the tint was similar.
when i look thru the s2 i am reminded of the p but not sure why.
back alley
02-21-2007, 17:42
that could be it chris!!
is it really half the weight of a p?
i don't remember the p feeling all that heavy.
joe
Because in your sensitive hands you notice that the S2 weights EXACTLY one half of the P?
Really, 1/2? It does feel slightly lighter, but not 1/2.
Well, first things first, the S2 is a smaller camera in hand. Half the weight, it doesn't seem like that much of a difference, but dimensionally it is smaller.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a367/rmeliso/PICT0015.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a367/rmeliso/PICT0019.jpg
And I had not noticed the green tinted viewfinder of the S2. The Canon P finder is cool toned, but very bright and clear. My P finder is brighter than my S2 finder. The RF patch though in the S2, warm toned is much more defined than the cooler P patch.
That said, I actually was fondling my cameras this weekend, the result was in fact that I am much more impressed with the P finder than I was before. Comparing my cameras, the P finder is bigger and brighter than the S2. Though the S2 patch is better defined, the brightness of the P finder more than makes up for it and makes its patch easy to see and use.
I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that the P is a 5 year younger design than the S2. When compared to my L1 and VT the S2's finder does shine. I do not have an SP or S3 (P contemporaries) to add to the comparison, but I suspect there is a difference largely to be seen in my next comparison. The entry and exit pupil of the P finder is clearly larger than that of the S2. While both finders have a 1:1 magnification, the P accommodates 35mm framelines due to the fact that the finder simply has more viewable area.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a367/rmeliso/PICT0016.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a367/rmeliso/PICT0017.jpg
To this point, I do think using a 35mm lens with the S2 is possible, but the 35mm framelines in the P are clearly wider than the viewable full area through the S2 finder. If you want to be careful with your edge composition with an S2/35mm combo you will have to really be into your finder and really look out to the edges. You have to do the same with the P finder, but not to the same degree because the framelines are there and you can see beyond them with a little work.
What else can I offer Joe?
back alley
02-21-2007, 18:12
well done rover!
a+!! and beyond the call!
the s2 seems almost pugnacious compared to the p which i previously said was a rugged looking looking camera.
joe
The P is no slouch. Both cameras are made of like materials and quality, but the P seems a bit more "finished." Perhaps Canon's many more years as a camera manufacturer at that time shows. Again, I wish I had an S3 to hold too.
Pugnacious, I guess if the P is elegant then we say the S2 has a little pit bull in it.
Size-wise, the S3/SP are the same size as the S2. Also very close in weight. The S3/SP are supposed to weigh a little less than the S2 but I don't detect a difference.
The S3 finder is considerably larger than either the S2 or Canon P. If you don't wear eyeglasses, you can easily use it to frame 28mm lenses at 1:1 magnification, and the full field of view approximates the 25mm lens ... I've daydreamed about getting contact lenses just to take advantage of this.
The S2 has a fairly sharp rear finder that will scratch eyeglasses. The S3 and SP have a flattened rear finder that's less damaging (but still scratches the coating off my eyeglass lens).
Fit and finish on the S3 and SP are comparable to a Nikon F.
That "pugnacious" description seems apt. These are serious business-like cameras.
Stop Vince, really, I can't afford an S3 right now and I am so damn weak. :o
Just looking at the P and S2 together, if the P also has a 1:1 magnifcation, then the S2/S3/SP have slightly longer baselengths, for slightly -- just slightly -- more accurate focusing. That's mainly helpful with the telephotos. Back before SLRs, Nikon telephoto lenses were the top of the heap, and the later Nikon RFs are excellent for shooting 105s and 135s. Half the old "found in a closet" Nikon kits for sale on EBay seem to come with a 50 and a 135.
The S2 with a 35mm on it will fit into your coat pocket better than with the 50mm.
I just now noticed, after all these years, that the S2 doesn't have a self-timer. S3 and SP have them. I use self-timers several times a year to take self portraits or family portraits with the camera propped up somewhere.
back alley
02-21-2007, 19:00
i never use a self timer and liked that the s2 didn't have one.
i wish it were an option.
if the P also has a 1:1 magnifcation, then the S2/S3/SP have slightly longer baselengths
They do. Remember the Canon P is in essence a VI model camera. The baselength of the Canon finders was shorter than the Leica, Nikon and Contax cameras, but until the P they had a variable magnification finder which provided increased focusing accuracy. The P lost this variable magnification, but picked up the 1:1 image. The Canon 7 went the other way, longer baselength, smaller magnification.
P. Lynn Miller
02-21-2007, 19:37
Joe,
Congratulations on the receipt of your S2. I am looking forward to hearing all about and seeing some great photos.
back alley
02-21-2007, 19:39
Joe,
Congratulations on the receipt of your S2. I am looking forward to hearing all about and seeing some great photos.
me too ;)
joe
SolaresLarrave
02-21-2007, 19:39
Wow, Joe... what can I say?
Congratulations!
Heck, you really make it difficult to keep my resolve of not playing with any more RF systems. I had a Canon in my hands, and I liked it... a lot! I also held a Rolleiflex: the nicest, brightest viewfinder ever seen in a TLR. And I've been able to resist them all! :eek:
Now... after seeing that Ralph has both, and then you... It's going to be tough.
But one can always say "Good choice! You know how to pick 'em!" :)
back alley
02-21-2007, 19:41
ralph has leica, contax, nikon and canon!
i only have contax, nikon and zeiss ikon.
and he has way more 50's than i do too...
joe
SolaresLarrave
02-21-2007, 19:44
With this standard lens obsession I'm tempted to say it's all back to the fifties... and to the lens race! :)
And I only have two 50s and two 35s... :(
back alley
02-21-2007, 19:55
i have 4 50's but will be selling the 50/2 for the contax pretty soon.
and one 35.
not so bad?
xayraa33
02-21-2007, 20:24
congrats on your new Nikon S2 Joe.
the Canon P also had parallax controlled frame lines in the finder,
something that is missing on the S2 and S3.
back alley
02-21-2007, 20:53
is that an original black p?
i would love one of them.
joe
wlewisiii
02-21-2007, 20:54
I sold my L1 which I liked more, I made a choice between it and the P. Finding another L1 seems unlikely.
Potentially OT: I find this very interesting. I have not had the pleasure of either camera, though I have owned a IVSB & a 7. I consider a L1 fairly high on my "when I get a Canon RF again" list and the P quite a long ways lower (far past another IVSB or any of the 7 models. Even past a near mythical IVSB2 ... ;) . May I ask why you chose this way?
It might be best to take this to PM's.
Thanks!
William
NIKON KIU
02-21-2007, 21:06
That's it...I am going on a post strike!!:mad:
But Nah, I let you get away with it since you showed us a black one. I hope your curtains are not wrinkled:D
Fred, is that Camera repainted?:p
Kiu
xayraa33
02-21-2007, 21:23
the Canon P is a very nice camera and I like it a bit more than the L1.
just my opinion.
Potentially OT: I find this very interesting. I have not had the pleasure of either camera, though I have owned a IVSB & a 7. I consider a L1 fairly high on my "when I get a Canon RF again" list and the P quite a long ways lower (far past another IVSB or any of the 7 models. Even past a near mythical IVSB2 ... ;) . May I ask why you chose this way?
It might be best to take this to PM's.
Thanks!
William
Well, not to upset the lords of Nippon Kogaku with Canon talk, but I think I like the L1 better. Just my opinion at this moment, but more discussion of this should happen in the Canon forum I guess.
Brian Sweeney
02-22-2007, 01:58
Okay. So what are the odds of Joe adding two more S2's to the Line-Up over the next 6 months? Warning: they tend to grow on you, had a couple of variations during the production run, and were made in large enough numbers that prices stay reasonable.
The S2 is a great shooter with the 50. And the roll I got back with the J-12 on it certainly shows the combo is usable.
Is Joe's chrome dial or black dial?
Brian Sweeney
02-22-2007, 02:42
Which ever it is, how long will it be before he gets the one that it isn't...
Wow --- great side-by-side photos and review!
But how did you keep them from fighting with each other?:p
Well, first things first, the S2 is a smaller camera in hand. Half the weight, it doesn't seem like that much of a difference, but dimensionally it is smaller.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a367/rmeliso/PICT0015.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a367/rmeliso/PICT0019.jpg
And I had not noticed the green tinted viewfinder of the S2. The Canon P finder is cool toned, but very bright and clear. My P finder is brighter than my S2 finder. The RF patch though in the S2, warm toned is much more defined than the cooler P patch.
That said, I actually was fondling my cameras this weekend, the result was in fact that I am much more impressed with the P finder than I was before. Comparing my cameras, the P finder is bigger and brighter than the S2. Though the S2 patch is better defined, the brightness of the P finder more than makes up for it and makes its patch easy to see and use.
I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that the P is a 5 year younger design than the S2. When compared to my L1 and VT the S2's finder does shine. I do not have an SP or S3 (P contemporaries) to add to the comparison, but I suspect there is a difference largely to be seen in my next comparison. The entry and exit pupil of the P finder is clearly larger than that of the S2. While both finders have a 1:1 magnification, the P accommodates 35mm framelines due to the fact that the finder simply has more viewable area.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a367/rmeliso/PICT0016.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a367/rmeliso/PICT0017.jpg
To this point, I do think using a 35mm lens with the S2 is possible, but the 35mm framelines in the P are clearly wider than the viewable full area through the S2 finder. If you want to be careful with your edge composition with an S2/35mm combo you will have to really be into your finder and really look out to the edges. You have to do the same with the P finder, but not to the same degree because the framelines are there and you can see beyond them with a little work.
What else can I offer Joe?
Nachkebia
02-22-2007, 03:47
I thought you stopped?
Congratulations with the S2 Joe!
Brian Sweeney
02-22-2007, 07:12
I'm willing to bet a lot of people here would gladly pay $325 for that Black Canon P.
back alley
02-22-2007, 07:15
I'm willing to bet a lot of people here would gladly pay $325 for that Black Canon P.
where do i sign up?
i have to admit that having another p is a secret desire on my part.
that 6l of kim's in the classifieds is wearing me down as well.
now that i have decided to forego a 35 for the nikon/contax i'm thinking about a ricoh grd to completely round out my wants.
jo
NIKON KIU
02-22-2007, 07:38
There is a black P advertised for $325? They are very hard to find, while no where near as valuable as a black Nikon S2 or SP they still easily bring 2k.
I think Brian was quoting another thread;)
Kiu
joe: Is the Biogon 35 no longer on the list? :p I'm getting so confused.
But I have learned that "I'm done" is the signal to hang on for Pooh's next great adventure...
back alley
02-22-2007, 09:07
earl, the 35 for the nikon/contax is off the list.
the zi will be the serious shooter and the lla/s2 are for fun with 50's time.
and it's frank who is finished. i just want for nothing.
of course that does not exclude me from buying binges.
joe
>>There is a black P advertised for $325? <<
Fred, the Nikon Hisoricial Society Webmaster, can get a little strident sometimes. When the subject of Canon RFs came up, he quipped something along the lines of "haven't paid attention to them in years ... are they all still $325? Can anyone tell the different models apart without Deckert's reference book?"
At least he was polite enough not to mention wrinkled shutters.
NIKON KIU
02-22-2007, 10:05
OK,all kidding aside,since this thread has turned into a comparison of the Nikon S2 and the Canon P, I like to make some historic comparisons.
The Canon P came out in 1958 and was sold until 1961...that Era was when the Nikon SP was on the market,so in essence the P was aimed directly at the SP and NOT the S2! How about comparing the SP's viewfinder to the P?
The Canon P(for Popular) had a total production of close to a 100,000 units, that equals to the total number of Nikon S2,S3,S3M,S4 and SP's produced before the 21st century!!
It is also worth mentioning that by late 1950s, Canon had given up the market of Pro Cameras and didn't catch up to Nikon until 1970!!
It is a wonder that we can make comparisons of these antique tools of photography decades after they became "Obsolete".
Kiu
I think the better comparison is Canon P versus Nikon S3. The S3 also came out in 1958 and was aimed at the advanced consumer/prosumer market (which, if you think about it, is probably the RFF market).
The two cameras have framelines for the same lenses. Canon's are parallax corrected. Nikon's aren't.
I think the better comparison is Canon P versus Nikon S3. The S3 also came out in 1958 and was aimed at the advanced consumer/prosumer market (which, if you think about it, is probably the RFF market).
The two cameras have framelines for the same lenses. Canon's are parallax corrected. Nikon's aren't.
Yes, it's a bit unfair to compare the S2 (1954) with the P (1958). Keep in mind the S2 was Nikon's first RF camera with 1/1000s shutter speed and finder with framelines. End of 1954 Canon still produced the IV with its squinty finder, the S2 was well ahead of Canon!
This said, personally I prefer my Canon P's finder in terms of brightness, large viewing angle and three frames over the S2 finder. But just with a 1.4/50mm lens, the S2 is the best choice.
You will find out, Joe. Welcome to the club!
Hey, you guys have to read my posts from last night, I am proud, I said all that stuff about the P, S2, S3 yesterday.
earl, the 35 for the nikon/contax is off the list.
the zi will be the serious shooter and the lla/s2 are for fun with 50's time.
I seem to recall that you were not a fan of the 50's. Has this changed?
back alley
02-22-2007, 11:41
50's are not my strong suit, for sure.
having the zm 50/1.5 has strengthened my resolve to work with that focal length as i really like the results and the look of the photos from it.
joe
>>Hey, you guys have to read my posts from last night, I am proud, I said all that stuff about the P, S2, S3 yesterday<<
Rover,
You're clearly a man ahead of your time!
NIKON KIU
02-22-2007, 11:49
Hey, you guys have to read my posts from last night, I am proud, I said all that stuff about the P, S2, S3 yesterday.
We just like to repeat things;)
kiu
>>Hey, you guys have to read my posts from last night, I am proud, I said all that stuff about the P, S2, S3 yesterday<<
Rover,
You're clearly a man ahead of your time!
I just wish I had your mad skills Vince.
We just like to repeat things;)
kiu
I thought that was only allowed in the M8 forum. :eek:
Well, I have to fess up too. I happened across a 50/2 Nikkor which was delivered to me today. Knowing it was coming I threw the S2 in my bag, without lens, but I was at a loss for a front lens cap. I had to settle on a plastic Canon 42mm push on cap. It fits well, but I told my partner here that if the Nikon guys knew I put a Canon lens cap on a Nikkor lens........
So how does the S2 compare to the M8. What about magenta issues?
NIKON KIU
02-22-2007, 12:09
Don't you all love joe's threads? we get to say whatever we want,we even get to say we put canon caps on Nikkors :(
Kiu
NIKON KIU
02-22-2007, 12:10
OK I have to confess too...I got a Yashica cap....
Kiu:eek:
back alley
02-22-2007, 12:11
i think this stopped being MY thread awhile ago.
:)
So how does the S2 compare to the M8. What about magenta issues?
Vince! Be careful about mentioning "the-camera-which-shall-not-be-named" here. ;) I have nothing against the camera, but it brings out the worst in people. Nikons bring out the best!
Brian Sweeney
02-22-2007, 12:28
The last of the Canon bottom loaders were current with the Nikon S2. The IVSB-2 was probably the closest in features. The viewfinders are squinty by comparison, and Knob wind and Rewind were still utilized. Canon had to come out with the Vt and L1 to keep up. Those followed the Nikon S2 introduction by 18months.
I do not have a Canon P, but have a CLA'd Vt and VI-t. I have no problems with those finders, or the S2 finder.
Brian Sweeney
02-22-2007, 14:42
I even use an Olympus 43mm cap on a Nikkor and a Nikkor 34mm cap on a Leitz.
I use a Leitz finder and Soviet rear lens cap with my 21mm Zeiss lens on my Nikon. The best of all worlds.
That difference of 200 grams means being able to carry around another lens.
If you take the lenses off I would think the difference in body weight is greater. The Nikkor lens is a hunk, off the top of my head when I had both in my hands I believe it to be heavier than the Canon 1.4.
I was just weighing cameras and lenses with my 1950s vintage German kitchen scale:
S2 with chrome 50/1.4 -- 700 grams
FM2 with 50/1.4 -- 850 grams
F (unmetered prism) and 50/1.4 -- 1025 grams
F2 (with DP1) and 50/1.4 -- 1200 grams
The accuracy of the scale seems to be +/- 25 grams.
Okay. So what are the odds of Joe adding two more S2's to the Line-Up over the next 6 months? Warning: they tend to grow on you, had a couple of variations during the production run, and were made in large enough numbers that prices stay reasonable.
The S2 is a great shooter with the 50. And the roll I got back with the J-12 on it certainly shows the combo is usable.
I think the odds are 2-0 that Joe will add at least another S2 to his kit. One for the 35 and one for the 50!
Here in Vancouver a small, slightly demented group of photographers and others with no visible means of support meet on friday mornings at Cafe Zen up the street from where I live. This is a motley group, a doctor, a dentist, an architect, a couple of shooters, a painter etc - a mixed group, but all with an abiding interest in images.
Last friday, Jeff (former tech writer for Nippon Kogaku/Japan) brought his S2 and 50/2 and today Pierre, a recent addition explained that he had been showing his wife my flicker site. She looked at the pictures of some of the cameras and said" I have one of these" and went and got her grandfathers S2 with 50/1,4. Another "member" ( it is not a formal group in any form or fashion) admits to having either a S3 or Sp with three lenses in a safe in his storage.He cant remember the combination, but once he can find it, he will come along in the Nikon month. February is soon over so we better declare another month to Nikon's. Oh, hell any month is a good month!
A camera store bit the dust today and had a 1/2 price sale. No Nikon/Leica stuff but a couple of boxes of Agfapan 400/Delta 100/Tmax 100 at less than 1/2 price.
Maybe I should do another Nikon month with Agfa instead of Neopan. It would be good excuse.
back alley
02-23-2007, 14:38
with me one never knows just what might be next!
the plan is to shoot some still life stuff this weekend - new zm 50/1.5 -nikkor 50/1.4 - cz 50/1.5 and czj 50/2 - maybe on that mitsubishi 100 film.
i'd like to see the same shot with each lens.
tomorrow i will head out with the zi and 35/2 biogon for some zen like shooting and refuse to come home until i feel i've taken at least one good shot.
joe
Just wanted to chime in with
congratulations on your new toy.
Damn, the magnetic pull of these
beautiful old machines.
the plan is to shoot some still life stuff this weekend - new zm 50/1.5 -nikkor 50/1.4 - cz 50/1.5 and czj 50/2 - maybe on that mitsubishi 100 film.
I very much look forward to these shots, Joe ! Enjoy,
Roland.
Damn, the magnetic pull of these
beautiful old machines.
My wife says the same thing, but without the comma after the 'Damn'.
1 of the last shots I took w/the S2 & 5cm/1.4 Nikkor-S combo:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/145/400852740_0e73d01e89_o.jpg
Kodak Panatomic-X, 1/1000th sec. @ f/2.8
http://www.flickr.com/photos/furcafe/400852740/
with me one never knows just what might be next!
the plan is to shoot some still life stuff this weekend - new zm 50/1.5 -nikkor 50/1.4 - cz 50/1.5 and czj 50/2 - maybe on that mitsubishi 100 film.
i'd like to see the same shot with each lens.
tomorrow i will head out with the zi and 35/2 biogon for some zen like shooting and refuse to come home until i feel i've taken at least one good shot.
joe
My wife says the same thing, but without the comma after the 'Damn'.
If we had a Post of the Month this would be my nomination. :D
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