View Full Version : Nikon film cassettes/cartriges/magazines...
Cale Arthur
02-18-2007, 14:51
Hi All.. i recently picked up a couple of said Nikon film magazines for use with my 'F' (and hopefully someday an S2!), and am having no luck finding a few bits of info about them. I'm guessing that they're the older version, as the film speed dial only goes up to 200, and they have the smooth, dark brassy finish (not crinkle). I've seen these advertised for use with RF's and 'F's specifically, but for the life of me, i can't tell the difference between these and the other versions (though i do recall that there was an F2-specific version?). So, my questions are....
- is there a difference in usage between the early ones and the later ones? I guess what i'm asking is, is there a version specific to RF's and to F's?
- can these be loaded using a regular (Watson, et al) bulk loader?
- is there a 'trick' to loading them w/film, and then loading them into the camera?
Thanks in advance for your advice! I'm looking forward to using them, as they're such great pieces of engineering (suprisingly complicated for 3 ostensible parts!) and certainly worlds better than the standard reuseable cassettes..
Cale
ps/apology: i've got a nearly-completed roll of film in my F that i don't want to temporarily rewind/remove, which might obviate the need for one of the questions above.. Also, please pardon the cross-pollination between RF's and SLR's, but hey, it's all Nikon, so it's all good, right? :)
Brian Sweeney
02-18-2007, 14:54
I have some old ones and some new ones. I cannot see a "reel" difference.
The newer ones for the F2 marked the plastic case as a "CP-7" and have a very F2 sounding name of "AM-1"..
The spool works perfectly as a take-up reel in the Contax.
Cale Arthur
02-18-2007, 15:06
I cannot see a "reel" difference.
Ha! Good one...
Do you use these regularly, Brian? Just wondering if it's an everyday part of your rig. I think if i can get these to 'go', i'm going to pick up a few more, and put them into regular rotation (even though a handful of 'em would start to add up, weight-wise).
Thanks for your help, Brian!
Cale
Cale Arthur
02-18-2007, 15:19
They all work in all Nikons with removable bottom/backs, nice because they absolutely do not scratch film, since the back lock opens them up.
Ah, beautiful. Thank you! Mine have felt discs in them, as part of the light trap 'system' (i guess?), but no foam that i can see.. i'm really amazed at the level of quality with these little things, but i guess being Nikon, it's no real surprise..
Cale
Ok the big problem is remembering to operating both the Watson close knobs before operating the top and exposing the film in the cassette and/or the loader.
Dont drop or crush the cassettes, if you dont have the nikon keepers you need to find something else.
I've done the former twice. It is a bit like shooting with lens cap on, done that to often to count...
Noel
P.S. the foam is in the keepers ...
They all work in all Nikons with removable bottom/backs, nice because they absolutely do not scratch film, since the back lock opens them up.
You do have to watch out for some of them having really gooey stuff in them from deteriorated foam.
I have the Leica version of the Nikon cassette. the M-version is designated IXMOO and is a boon to those of us who roll our own. I have 3 Nikon cassettes on the way to me, courtesy of NikonKiu. The reloadables are handy, except for air travel! Security tends toi look at them as potential 50 caliber cartridges and disbelieve yor assurances that they are only film cartridges! Heavy too!!
For my M's I have about 180 of them as that will allow me to load 400ft ( it comes in 400ft, 1000ft and 3000ft rolls) of Double-XX movie stock (250 ASA in daylight). It is obvious that I will have to start accumulating more of the Nikon one as I am 177 short!
I dont bother with the Watson loader - I just pull out 51/2 feet between my stretched arms and cut. That gives me about 37-38 frames. Takes about thre hours to load 400 ft - but then i am set for 6-7 weeks.
Cale Arthur
02-19-2007, 10:18
Good to hear from you, Tom! I was hoping you'd be weighing in on this.. I discovered late last night that the Watson loader is definitely not going to work, so it's good to know there's a more 'manual' approach to getting the film in there! I can certainly see the advantages of being able to load a bunch in one shot, esp. if you're dealing with 400' lengths! From the little research i've done on Double-XX, it seems very affordable if you buy short ends.. plus, it looks great, too, though i might have to go with something a little faster (i shoot a fair amount at night)..
By the way, i noticed a pic of you (fr: an NHS convention, perhaps?) with an F & CV w.a. lens/finder and what looked to be a machined grip on there! Are we going to see some new 'F' goodies from you soon? ;)
Cale
Cale
My Watson works ok, but you have to hold in the knob with one hand as you wind with the other. To keep the key on the cassette aligned with the follower on the knob. This also stops the cassette from drifting in the chamber. Then you have to turn the key anti clockwise about 90 degrees. It is a bit fiddley.
The problem I have is I sometimes dont do all the steps in the correct sequence. The main advantage of the loader is if your dark room is dusty, it keeps the dust off the film reel.
The daylight loading tanks also work similarly
Noel
Cale Arthur
02-19-2007, 10:53
It is a bit fiddley.
Indeed! I got the same impression, Noel.. i think i could get it to work eventually, but i might just go for the 'Tom A. Technique' and see how it works out.. The one problem that i forsee w/the Watson is that i'll have no way of knowing if the spool is slipping and consequently, if i've loaded as many exposures as i need on there.. Beyond that, cutting the end of the film to properly fit into the 'teeth' on the spool ought to prove interesting in the dark. Sadly, i'm already prone to getting frustrated w/the 'little things', so i should probably look to minimize that where possible! :rolleyes:
Cale
Indeed! I got the same impression, Noel.. i think i could get it to work eventually, but i might just go for the 'Tom A. Technique' and see how it works out.. The one problem that i forsee w/the Watson is that i'll have no way of knowing if the spool is slipping and consequently, if i've loaded as many exposures as i need on there.. Beyond that, cutting the end of the film to properly fit into the 'teeth' on the spool ought to prove interesting in the dark. Sadly, i'm already prone to getting frustrated w/the 'little things', so i should probably look to minimize that where possible! :rolleyes:
Cale
Cale, once you have mastered the trimming of film end for the teeth in the take up-spool and the bleeding of finger tips has subsided, it is easy. I find that a wooden dowel with a slot cut into it helps with the spooling the film up on the spool. If the dowel slot is wide enough to accomodate the 'ridge at the bottom and turned to be a tight fit you just stick the spool on to it and wind the film on.
I used to have a piece of wood , a 1x2 inch left over from a reno, cut to 5 feet and 7 inches long and I used that as a stick for the length of the film. problem was that my darkroom is only 9 by 12 ft and i kept knocking things over! The "digital" loading works better and is quicker too. Band-aid is optional for the scissoring of the film. I made a small template from a flat piece of brass with the correct V-shape as a guide to trimming. My advice is to train on scrap film in day-light until you are "fluid" with all the motions. Then close your eyes and do it blind until that feels comfortable! It will entertain the family too as it confirms their worst suspicions about you! I use the lid from a 8x10 box as a tool storage when I work in the dark (scissors, "twirling" stick, template and dis-assembled cassette) as these pieces will roll off the table otherwise and land under cabinets and tables!.
It is not fun trying to find the pieces that you need in total darkness, with 100;s of feet of film curling on the darkroom table!!
Cale
My Watsons and Comptrol have counters that seem to be reliable, but hey if you can walk on water like Tom dont worry about me and the loaders. I might find it difficult to load cassettes in dark, tanks are difficult enough to load in dark.
You dont need dark if you accept that the last frame on the film will be exposed. The film end is trimmed in daylight and pushed into jaws in inner reel and then the cassette shells are mated and then inserted into chamber and keyway pushed home. I accept (you or I) could do this in dark.
What I sometimes do is when I have finished loading I open the loader in the dark room to check that the cassette has been closed properly. This allows the trim the film in dark you suggest to be practical, if you can walk on water.
Noel
P.S. I could not manufacture lever winders either, Ive enough of a problem keeping my leicavit adjusted.
Cale
My Watsons and Comptrol have counters that seem to be reliable, but hey if you can walk on water like Tom dont worry about me and the loaders. I might find it difficult to load cassettes in dark, tanks are difficult enough to load in dark.
You dont need dark if you accept that the last frame on the film will be exposed. The film end is trimmed in daylight and pushed into jaws in inner reel and then the cassette shells are mated and then inserted into chamber and keyway pushed home. I accept (you or I) could do this in dark.
What I sometimes do is when I have finished loading I open the loader in the dark room to check that the cassette has been closed properly. This allows the trim the film in dark you suggest to be practical, if you can walk on water.
Noel
P.S. I could not manufacture lever winders either, Ive enough of a problem keeping my leicavit adjusted.
Noel,
today i would have liked to be able to walk on water as the monsoon rains are pelting down here! I have the Watson loaders, but I find the effort of using them for doing full 100ft spools to much. One or two rolls are fine. I also keep losing track of the turns when i spool film into cassettes. The 'click" system on my watson is less than precise.
There used to be a loader that could hold 400 ft rolls. I have seen pictures of them but never been able to pick one up. Most of the older loaders are made from plastic that will age badly and develop cracks with time.
NIKON KIU
02-19-2007, 21:19
If you really want to know how to load one of these I will scan my S2 manual and upload.
Kiu
Tom A
My photo shop has a cardboard box on the floor with 2£ or make us an offer, they have daylight loaders (sometimes) in the box. I cannot justify buying any more.
I cannot resist looking in the box when I pick up my monthly fix of fast fix.
The shops only bad habit is dragging me over to the view cams or whatever they are hoping to sell, last one was a Kodak 3A, I had to explain it was not a620. The view cam was too large to get into the boot (trunk) of my roadster.
Anyway the loaders are not difficult to get like Liecavits, and if you break one it is not repair it but trash it etc.
Noel
Cale Arthur
02-20-2007, 07:05
If you really want to know how to load one of these I will scan my S2 manual and upload.
Kiu
Thanks for the offer, Kiu.. if it's not too much of a hassle, i'd be curious to see it! I am, however, making progress the old-fashioned way at the moment.. and thankfully, my circulatory system is still closed! :) Tonight, i hit the darkroom with them, and hopefully there won't be too many swears..
Cale
If you really want to know how to load one of these I will scan my S2 manual and upload.
Kiu
Kiu,
The three Nikon cassettes arrived this morning. Tonight I shall load them and use them for the 50/2 test series. Thanks again Kiu.
Once this month is over i will take a close look at all my stuff and cull some of the items. To have things in duplicate makes sense - in triplicate and quadruplicate is excessive .
Cale Arthur
02-20-2007, 09:23
Once this month is over i will take a close look at all my stuff and cull some of the items.
Uh oh... i'll start pooling my 'beater S2' funds together now, just in case.. ;)
darkprints
02-20-2007, 10:10
I have some old ones and some new ones. I cannot see a "reel" difference.
The newer ones for the F2 marked the plastic case as a "CP-7" and have a very F2 sounding name of "AM-1"..
How does the newer AM-1 differ from the older ones? And are they compatible w/ the F and rf's?
NIKON KIU
02-21-2007, 10:53
As promised before, here is a jpg of page 13 and 14 pf my nikon S2 owner's manual.
Sorry because of the crude jpg...I tried a flat-bed scanner,but couldn't up-load the pdf file...available on request...just PM me.
Hope this helps,
Kiu
Brian Sweeney
02-21-2007, 13:14
Made me go Bobbing for Nikon.
The AM-1 fit into my early F2 (7101xxx), the RF generation cassette did not. Both are closed, with the white dots lining up where they should.
I'm looking at an S2 generation reloadable "Magazine" and the much newer AM-1. There are differences are in the lettering. The older one has "Nikon" in S2 font pressed into the metal, and the underside has a chrome ring for ASA with black lettering. The AM-1 is white on black lettering. Both have the fine crinkle finish and are close to identical "except" the studs on the older one are bigger, and in different locations. That seems to prevent misloading into the F2.
Cale Arthur
02-21-2007, 15:50
As promised before, here is a jpg of page 13 and 14 pf my nikon S2 owner's manual.
Thanks very much, Kiu.. it looks just fine to me, and i appreciate you sharing this!
I just bought 4 more of these bad boys from KEH - i think i've cleaned 'em out of the 'bargain' ones.. having never been to a camera swap meet, i'm curious: is this the kind of thing that shows up at said functions with relative frequency, and in user condition?
Now, if i could just get a certain film house to get back to me about some short ends of Eastman Double-XX (inspired by TomA and a few examples i've seen), i'd be in good shape....
Cale
Thanks very much, Kiu.. it looks just fine to me, and i appreciate you sharing this!
I just bought 4 more of these bad boys from KEH - i think i've cleaned 'em out of the 'bargain' ones.. having never been to a camera swap meet, i'm curious: is this the kind of thing that shows up at said functions with relative frequency, and in user condition?
Now, if i could just get a certain film house to get back to me about some short ends of Eastman Double-XX (inspired by TomA and a few examples i've seen), i'd be in good shape....
Cale
I know that some shooters have bought Double XX directly from Kodak's Motion Picture Divison. The "regular" film divison doesn't ackowledge that Plus-X and XX exists as 35mm stock. You can probably "google" the phone number to Kodak and talk to them. I dont know if they have a minimum volume. Last price I heard was US$127 for 400ft.
I have a connection here in town who gets me mine. Many years ago Agfa used to make its own version of XX, APX 250. The distributor here was faced with a dilemma.He had some 400 ft cans, but they were not in matched batchnumbers so no movie-maker would take it. Originally it was slated for shipment back to the factory for silver recovery, but that would cost money! Very wisely he offered it to me and I went down and filled the trunk with 8400 ft of film! I still have one can of 400ft in the freezer for the day when I have accumulated 80+ Nikon cassettes!
Cale Arthur
02-21-2007, 17:46
...I went down and filled the trunk with 8400 ft of film!
Holy smokes, what a haul!
I may have had a bit of a breakthrough in finding some XX.. i hope it 'pan's out. :o I'll know more in the next day or so... if it's not going to happen anytime soon, i'll just get a 100' roll of KB100, and see where that leads me.
I've heard tell that these films are lubricated somehow.. it makes sense for the speed at which they probably travel through a movie camera, but they're still safe for use in 'regular' 35mm cameras.. very interesting.
Cale
Guys nice thread so far....
After reading Brians post earlier I tried one of my Nikon F cassettes which still has the Feb73 label on it, (sold F in '74) and the cassette does not seem to want to squeese in to my 77xxxxx F2, I tried it without a spool, still no way, any one else confirm? Nikon are good on info in user handbooks any one got a F2 handbook?
Noel
Just tried my AM1 cassette in my `73 F, no go. Spacer in the bottom of the camera back prevents back from closing. ONLY works in F2. No info on earlier cassettes.
Holy smokes, what a haul!
I may have had a bit of a breakthrough in finding some XX.. i hope it 'pan's out. :o I'll know more in the next day or so... if it's not going to happen anytime soon, i'll just get a 100' roll of KB100, and see where that leads me.
I've heard tell that these films are lubricated somehow.. it makes sense for the speed at which they probably travel through a movie camera, but they're still safe for use in 'regular' 35mm cameras.. very interesting.
Cale
Cale, just posted some stuff shot with XX and AP 250 on my Flicker site. The only problem I have ever encountered with the XX/AP 250 is that the sprocket holes have a slightly different pitch than "regular" 35mm film. It has never been a problem in my M/Nikon RF's, but if you use motordrives (F 36/MD2's and SL Mot's) the different pitch can "accumulate" and jam the motor. One exception is the SL Mot, which cheerfully keeps feeding film and shredding the perforations. When you open the camera to unload you have three strips, the bottom and top part, the center part with the image and lots of small pieces of film that used to be between the sprocket holes! The Horizon 202 also dislikes the different pitch, but then this camera tends to jam for no reason anyway, so it could be coincidental!
darkprints
02-22-2007, 11:29
Just tried my AM1 cassette in my `73 F, no go. Spacer in the bottom of the camera back prevents back from closing. ONLY works in F2. No info on earlier cassettes.
Thanks - you saved me some grief - I was about to bid on some AM-1's for my '69 & '71 F's.
So we could assume that the rangefinders, the F and the F2 casettes are not back or forwards compatible until some one says otherwise.
Groan...
On a bright side the FSU casettes I use seem to be ok in Kievs, Zorkis and Feds, but I'm still investigating this, the FSU stuffs Nikon on utility! The Zeiss Contax cassettes are ok in Kievs as well.
Noel
P.S. Movie stock should only be different on the perforations size and shape these are designed for running in the proff cameras at speed, without jumping the image frame to frame, proff cameras sprockets were designed to mate with the film. There were three standards, the film cams the film projector and the still cameras. The film projectors film had to tolerate wear and tear as the cinemas ran the released film again and again and again.
(sorry about edit)
Cale Arthur
02-22-2007, 16:15
Cale, just posted some stuff shot with XX and AP 250 on my Flicker site.
Ah, excellent, Tom. I'll be heading over there presently.. thanks for the heads up!
The only 'motor' drives i have are on my Canon Dial 35's, so thankfully no 'sprocket tearing' worries for me..
For what it's worth, i'm really digging this thread! Thanks, y'all!
Cale
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