View Full Version : Poll: Isn't Printing the Greatest Thing?
Just to get this area rolling, a quick poll question: when you put your new print in the developer and see the picture "pop" at you after 30 or so seconds, isn't that the greatest thing on the planet? Let me know why or why not:)
I love printing but it is so slow.... I've been having a hard time finding the time, and I honestly have trouble getting in the groove. Once I'm there, though, it is magic.
I used to love printing as well, but I never had my own home printing darkroom. I always used a school or rentals, so it took a lot of time to get going and I was always at the mercy of the lab, regarding which enlarger or lens I'd end up with or the folks I was printing with, or the chemicals, etc. Those days are over for me. About as far as I'm willing to go back into it is making contact sheets, or working with some alt-process. I'm not technically "All Digital" but definitely all digital from the perspective of this thread. I love scanning MY personal work and using PS (though I'm nowhere near mastering it), so the digital darkroom it is for me. That's my selection.
ChrisPlatt
02-15-2007, 00:57
I definitely enjoy printing more than picture taking.
Chris
to me it finishes the process. Not wet printing my film was always like making a chair out of fine wood, then covering it in stick-on vinyl instead of finishing it properly.
to me it finishes the process. Not wet printing my film was always like making a chair out of fine wood, then covering it in stick-on vinyl instead of finishing it properly.
Great anology! I like to get my hands into things, the computer just seems so cold. :cool:
patrickjames
02-15-2007, 09:18
I just can't give up the darkroom. I tried B/W digital printing but even with all of my uber professional profiling equipment and access to just about any printer I want I still couldn't find the quality you can achieve in the darkroom. Digital prints just don't have the magic when you look at them. Color prints on the other hand.....
Patrick
Joe Mondello
02-15-2007, 10:31
I don't miss all the chemicals one teensy bit. Of course that may be because I spent years in darkrooms making all sorts of uninteresting hi contrast enlargements to be used as backgrounds for charts and graphs, but I also spent a good portion of my younger days in our home darkroom.
Like I said, I really don't miss it a bit. But that doesn't mean it should go away or that folks who love it shouldn't continue, just that I really prefer my digital workflow at age 56!
Pherdinand
02-15-2007, 10:43
I hope it's not, coz i never do it!
Uncle Bill
02-15-2007, 11:23
I discovered the joys of the wet darkroom and I would not trade it in for a second.
sepiareverb
02-15-2007, 12:31
It really is sculpture- the negative is the die, the paper the blank- we play with the light as it hits the paper-
It's good fun and very much an art. I continue to learn every time I use my darkroom. But I will admit that I don't like setting up my darkroom if I only have contact prints to make, the computer is good for that, and is better for organizing them. On the subject of scanning negs, either from the supermarket scanner (which should capable) or my own flatbed effort: It is amazing how much detail missed in a scan can be brought out in a wet print. Particularly in my MF work the detail and tonality of prints is always a surprize to me, and I am only a learner!
I just can't give up the darkroom. I tried B/W digital printing but even with all of my uber professional profiling equipment and access to just about any printer I want I still couldn't find the quality you can achieve in the darkroom. Digital prints just don't have the magic when you look at them. Color prints on the other hand.....
Patrick
I agree whole-heartedly on all points. I use digital for color output and for my purposes it great. I don't need or want more than what I can print at home. But for b&w that really pops I wet process.
Bob
Tuolumne
02-15-2007, 14:09
I do like to use film, but all of my printing is digital. I can do more and better in less time in a digital darkroom. In fact, I can take a so-so photo and really make it sing with digital post-processing and printing. I could probably do the same thing with a chemical dark room, but it would take forever and cost a fortune to do it over and over until it comes out just right. Plus, there are some things I would like to do in a chemical dark room that I just don't have the skills for. They can be done with a flick of a button or slider in a digital dark room.
I am sure this is one reason that "purists" dislike digital - it has caused the commoditization of photography. You can be a mediocre photographer and so-so post-processor and turn out very good pictures digitally; whereas, you would have to be a near-master to do the same with film and chemicals. I routinely make what I consider great balck-and-whites digitally that would be far beyond my reach chemically.
T.
Max Power
02-15-2007, 14:23
I do it 'cause I love the tactile quality of the whole process. From bulk loading the cassettes, to composing, to exposing, to souping and finally the whole process of printing.
I sit in front of a computer all day, go to meetings, discuss problems and solutions and catch up with a CrackBerry. Darkroom printing is my break from it all. I get to set up my chemistry, plug in my MP3 player and use my brain and hands to create something. It's tactile. As an added bonus, it's very inexpensive to do.
Just my thoughts,
Kent
I totaly love wet printing, but maybe its just the fixxer that's gotten me hooked :rolleyes:
I am sure this is one reason that "purists" dislike digital - it has caused the commoditization of photography. You can be a mediocre photographer and so-so post-processor and turn out very good pictures digitally; whereas, you would have to be a near-master to do the same with film and chemicals. I routinely make what I consider great balck-and-whites digitally that would be far beyond my reach chemically.
T.
I totally agree with you, I have loads of friends who produce great/nice work digitally but they've never learned it ' wet'..
Somehow I tend to feel superior, whilst that shouldn't be cause It should be all about the end results now shouldn't it?
It's good fun and very much an art. I continue to learn every time I use my darkroom. But I will admit that I don't like setting up my darkroom if I only have contact prints to make,
I used to work in a B&W lab. We only did B&W.
All my home darkrooms never had h2o. I had to set up the trays all the times even for contact sheets. Then I had to make some prints just so I don't let the developer get wasted.
Now, I have a 16x20 Nova with Ansco 130 as my standard developer. I go in, make contacts, make prints, and I barely have to do much clean up. Its always ready. And with Ansco 130, it lasts forever!
RF-Addict
02-15-2007, 15:51
I voted "absolutely" but it is only true for B&W. I used to also do my own color printing, both RA and Cibachrome, but I find that with scanning and PS I get better color prints than I ever could from my darkroom work. To get the same popping pictures in the darkroom I would spend hours making contrast masks and try various filter settings. I am thankful that digital processing of slide and print film is possible today.
B&W is another story - there is still something magical about the entire process in the darkroom. From dodging and burning, to finally seeing the print appear in the soup!
It sure is something completely different than messing around with a digital file on the PC. I not at all experienced with Photoshop, so I can't judge here but diving into this learning curve - there is no joy for me in that. Totally different with a wet darkroom. I don't have a darkroom currently and used to have a friend (professinal photog) with a fully loaded studio and dev. equipement. Everything permanently set up and in perfect condition.
It was a real joy to print myself, I never ever experienced this level of quality from a lab. Unless you stand next to the guy and giving instruction no one will ever know your intentions/ expectations. You feel of contrast and framing. If you've never been there ... poor guy/girl. I'm missing it.
kshapero
02-15-2007, 16:23
I don't even know how to do darkroom printing.
Pherdinand
02-15-2007, 16:31
I discovered the joys of the wet darkroom and I would not trade it in for a second.
How about a year, or two?
It's difficult for me to pinpoint exactly what I find so pleasurable about the darkroom experience. The solitude, the quiet, the leisurely pace, the retro feel, the cheapness, and the challenge of what you know is a great neg. There you stand, with a bunch of liquids you mixed up, a mediocre enlarger, the cheapest paper you could find, and way more enthusiasm than skill.
It takes half a dozen tries, change your f-stop, tweak your times, adjust your filters, burn or dodge a bit......and then you NAIL it, the most beautiful rendering of one of your best shots you could ever hope for, with a richness and beauty you could never attain in front of your computer. And that doesn't even take the personal satisfaction of taking your image from capture to completion into account.
For me, being born bereft of any real artistic talent, it is the closest I can come to real art. And I'm going to keep trying....
Now, I have a 16x20 Nova with Ansco 130 as my standard developer.
Sweeeet! What paper? I'm an Amidol man, myself, but when I reconstitute my darkroom, I might change my mind due to the difficulties of Amidol.
My vote: Absolutely. For me it's not just putting a fine finish vs. vinyl covering, it's also the zone/zen experience. I love being in there and creating, finishing a creation.
Earl
sigma4ever
02-15-2007, 20:03
I love the darkroom! I can not see myself using a computer for prints. I love being up and active switching the paper from the stop to the fix. I love the chair analogy. It works perfectly with my situation. For me having no lab is like having a car, but no gas to drive it. I have used a computer for a few prints and I have to say that there is absolutely no satisfaction in it.
It's difficult for me to pinpoint exactly what I find so pleasurable about the darkroom experience. The solitude, the quiet, the leisurely pace, the retro feel, the cheapness, and the challenge of what you know is a great neg. There you stand, with a bunch of liquids you mixed up, a mediocre enlarger, the cheapest paper you could find, and way more enthusiasm than skill.
It takes half a dozen tries, change your f-stop, tweak your times, adjust your filters, burn or dodge a bit......and then you NAIL it, the most beautiful rendering of one of your best shots you could ever hope for, with a richness and beauty you could never attain in front of your computer. And that doesn't even take the personal satisfaction of taking your image from capture to completion into account.
For me, being born bereft of any real artistic talent, it is the closest I can come to real art. And I'm going to keep trying....
Well put! It tugs at my darkroom heartstrings (seriously). Anyone who has spent time over a tray of fixer can identify with the sentiment.
:)
Max Power
02-16-2007, 15:07
I don't even know how to do darkroom printing.
If you look around the Ilford website, there are some excellent step by step writeups on how to do it. Once you've done it once, it becomes really easy. There's also a really good book out there called 'Into Your Darkroom Step by Step' which is an excellent intro to printing.
It's very rewarding and a lot of fun.
K
I do it 'cause I love the tactile quality of the whole process. From bulk loading the cassettes, to composing, to exposing, to souping and finally the whole process of printing.
I sit in front of a computer all day, go to meetings, discuss problems and solutions and catch up with a CrackBerry. Darkroom printing is my break from it all. I get to set up my chemistry, plug in my MP3 player and use my brain and hands to create something. It's tactile. As an added bonus, it's very inexpensive to do.
Just my thoughts,
Kent
I agree 100% --- exactly my thoughts, it's a refuge!
JT
ChrisPlatt
02-17-2007, 09:03
Printing your own black and white adds a whole new dimension to your photography.
You will finally have control of the entire process.
For those of you who have never tried it, there's no mystery; it's easy to learn the basics.
In no time at all you will be making better prints than any consumer photofinisher.
Then spend the rest of your life mastering the process...
Chris
pesphoto
02-17-2007, 09:23
Perfectly stated....
QUOTE=dadsm3]It's difficult for me to pinpoint exactly what I find so pleasurable about the darkroom experience. The solitude, the quiet, the leisurely pace, the retro feel, the cheapness, and the challenge of what you know is a great neg. There you stand, with a bunch of liquids you mixed up, a mediocre enlarger, the cheapest paper you could find, and way more enthusiasm than skill.
It takes half a dozen tries, change your f-stop, tweak your times, adjust your filters, burn or dodge a bit......and then you NAIL it, the most beautiful rendering of one of your best shots you could ever hope for, with a richness and beauty you could never attain in front of your computer. And that doesn't even take the personal satisfaction of taking your image from capture to completion into account.
For me, being born bereft of any real artistic talent, it is the closest I can come to real art. And I'm going to keep trying....[/QUOTE]
... as it was when I souped my first B & W print more than thirty years ago. Just like watching the sunrise still never ceases to amaze me (wow, this is either incredibly "deep," or I am very easily amused...):o
It's difficult for me to pinpoint exactly what I find so pleasurable about the darkroom experience. The solitude, the quiet, the leisurely pace, the retro feel, the cheapness, and the challenge of what you know is a great neg. There you stand, with a bunch of liquids you mixed up, a mediocre enlarger, the cheapest paper you could find, and way more enthusiasm than skill.
It takes half a dozen tries, change your f-stop, tweak your times, adjust your filters, burn or dodge a bit......and then you NAIL it, the most beautiful rendering of one of your best shots you could ever hope for, with a richness and beauty you could never attain in front of your computer. And that doesn't even take the personal satisfaction of taking your image from capture to completion into account.
For me, being born bereft of any real artistic talent, it is the closest I can come to real art. And I'm going to keep trying....
Wow, although there are some great comments on this thread, this one is my personal winner so far -- very well said! The last paragraph reminds me of the old saying that "photography is for artists that can't draw" -- not sure who said that, but it certainly applies to me:D
I am also glad to see current vote-count in favor of the wet darkroom (heavily-biased audience maybe ;) ) -- nice going, group!
BJ Bignell
02-19-2007, 05:28
I am also a fan of the wet darkroom. I love knowing that I've just created an image from start to finish. Photography for me is about the process as much as it is about the art.
Funnily enough- liking printing (I do!) is what got me into digital. I'm not much of a B&W photographer and I always hated to give my colour photo's to some anonymous lab. The computer gave me back my darkroom.
Funnily enough- liking printing (I do!) is what got me into digital. I'm not much of a B&W photographer and I always hated to give my colour photo's to some anonymous lab. The computer gave me back my darkroom.
I agree, only I am an B/W photographter 70% of the time... those photo's I process in the darkroom..
I just love that digital gave me my own 'colourdarkroom'..
Its pretty funny I still introduce people tot wet printing trough a course I give every few months :)
Silva Lining
02-19-2007, 15:40
I love the smell of fixer first thing in the morning!
Rob Skeoch
02-21-2007, 21:03
The greatest thrill in photography is watching that print come up in the tray. For me that's what photography is all about.
I printed for two days this week.... and loved it. You can't beat the modern papers like Ilford Galerie or Kentmere Bromide.
-Rob
bigcameraworkshops.com
traveller
02-25-2007, 10:38
I really love to print BW, colour is for the lab.
I'm sure that I could get some nice pictures from scanning if I wanted to do it but I am staring at a monitor the whole day. So printing is relaxation for me, I can calm down, sort my thoughts and as reward I get a print.
To make a print directly from the neg with no intermediate steps truly is analog photography done in reverse.
Also, the view through the grain magnifyer doesn't lie. The subject is either in focus or it is not.
canonetc
03-03-2007, 02:06
'cause I feel like I'm creating something with my own hands. It's an alchemy and magic that no lifeless computer can give. A print exists; I watch it come into existance in "real time" through a process I can only marvel at.
Chris
canonetc
amateriat
03-13-2007, 20:30
I am sure this is one reason that "purists" dislike digital - it has caused the commoditization of photography. You can be a mediocre photographer and so-so post-processor and turn out very good pictures digitally; whereas, you would have to be a near-master to do the same with film and chemicals. I routinely make what I consider great balck-and-whites digitally that would be far beyond my reach chemically.
T. You'd think so, but I see an awful lot of ham-fisted technique borne of the "lightroom" – people pulling too many levers and pushing too many buttons, largely because they can. Not fun to watch.
Like Tuolumne, however, I moved to the digital "darkroom" some nine years ago, largely because I never had a proper darkroom of my own, and was heavily frustrated by the limitations involved in using others' facilities, often on a challenging schedule. Dealing with black-and-white printing digitally has been a PITA until a little over a year ago, when I found a printer that truly delivered for both b/w and color (HP 8750), meaning I could give up the madness of having to maintain a second printer, loaded with specialty inks, just for b/w printing.
But it all still starts on film (well, 90-95% anyway). As I said to a colleague a few years back while shooting with a "Mk I" version of Canon's EOS-1D, "I could get down with the digital photography thing, if only I didn't hate the cameras with such an intense passion." This hasn't changed...much.
- Barrett
sigma4ever
03-13-2007, 21:01
I love the darkroom.....It's my favorite refuge....Everything about it is great....The seclusion from the world, the peaceful atmosphere, the chemicals, knowing that you are in charge of the product that comes out, the triumphs, the mistakes, and that moment when your print finally comes out the way you want it to.....
printing is my least favorite part of photography, why the $%&^ isnt paper the same aspect ratio as the images cameras produce? I know I know cropping and what not, but to hell with that, whens that last time someone tried to print a 35mm or 6x6 in a 8x10 and wanted the entire thing only to find they were stupid and cut off part of your image?
that said in the darkroom what I really dislike is that papers in china suddenly got very hard to find and went up in price, a2 sizes ilford 10 sheet is 90 dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
350D_user
04-05-2007, 14:49
The one gripe I have with my darkroom setup, is the setting up of the blackout materials. But as the bathroom/darkroom overlooks the back garden of a family who have a "Bright as day 'burglar light'", I can't take any chances.
BJ Bignell
04-06-2007, 05:52
I actually had a bad experience the last time I was in the darkroom. It just seemed like nothing would go well, none of my prints looked right, and then I ran out of paper. :bang:
I switched to the "mystery" papers that came in the paper safes I bought. That was a mistake which only served to heighten my frustration. Yesterday I bit the bullet and bought another 100-sheet box of fresh paper of a known type. Let's hope next time goes better.
pesphoto
04-06-2007, 06:01
I had a similar problem last time I printed. It looked like every box of paper I tried was fogged, maybe it was bad developer. Im not sure....but I was so frustrated I havent gone back in there for a while. So I think I'll be buying new paper and chemicals and basically start over.
Jeremy Z
04-21-2007, 13:07
Yeah, I love it too. The problem is that it takes so long to get anything accomplished. I don't mind spending the time, but my wife misses me and there are so many other things that can be done in the time it takes to make a handful of good prints.
I love it, it is just a matter of budgeting the time for it. I've found that to do a good job with digital editing doesn't take any less time.
+1 on the light-blocking setup. That was the most frustrating part for me. Once I figured out why my prints had no contrast, it was much better.
Before you assume it's defective paper check your darkroom for leaks, and especially your safelight for cracks or leaks.
Simon Larbalestier
04-21-2007, 15:40
For me printing is the root of the process and it helps keep me grounded in what i do. I seem to spend a lot of time in Bangkok scanning, captioning and cloning out dust on neg scans. Back in the UK i can concentrate on making prints and seeing results that for me have a much greater longevity. It is however a very long and expensive process that requires a great of deal of patience on my part. Fortunately i keep detailed notes to short cut some of the leg work but as papers and emulsions change i'm constantly adjusting and rewriting my print notes. I also find it helps to concentrate my thoughts about my work unlike my time spent on my computer....which gives me a head and neck ache....
I actually had a bad experience the last time I was in the darkroom. It just seemed like nothing would go well, none of my prints looked right, and then I ran out of paper. :bang:
I switched to the "mystery" papers that came in the paper safes I bought. That was a mistake which only served to heighten my frustration. Yesterday I bit the bullet and bought another 100-sheet box of fresh paper of a known type. Let's hope next time goes better.
My proposal for the owner of a 100 sheet box goes as follow:
a) Do not use any more paper unsafes.
b ) When printing pick each sheet from the box.
c) In order to prevent light accidents when using the box, leave most of the sheets inside the box but within the black plastic.
d) Most important of all, at the end of each printing session stick 2 pieces of masking tape to two opposite sides of the box, insinuating yourself for the next time, "this box contains unprinted sheets"
Thus you will ever know what paper is inside the box: the one that came with the box .
Cheers,
Ruben
i remember printing in my classroom and being amazed at what i had accomplised....
developng rocks its all part of the process...
i wish i could do it now but no....
if you have the oppurtunity... do it....
chemicals smell great!
Yes. In fact I just came out from my darkroom!
Printing and the rangefinderforum, probably the two greatest things on earth =).
I am an absolute beginner.
I joined a weekend workshop a week ago, got totally addicted, picked up a complete darkroom on ebay for 100 euros today and will have changed our second bathroom into a darkroom by the end of the week. :D
I cant wait to get started.
Finally time to say goodbye to "pushing PS buttons":D
I feel so free it is unbelievable.
There is no computer or any other person involved in my photography from the click of the shutter till the final print.
Fabian
I'm afraid with the amazing results I'm getting on Museo Silver Rag and my 2200 my wet darkroom printing days are over. Everyone's I've shown prints to using this paper in the last couple of months think they are traditionally printed fiber prints. Gorgeous.
Absolutely hate the thought of printing - only took up photography when digital came of age! Without digital, I wouldn't have bothered taking up photography, and stuck with sketching and painting!
Not sure why this is. Impatience is a large part, plus I prefer colour images to B&W.
I should enjoy messing about in the darkroom as I've a degree in chemistry, and could concoct all sorts of wierd and wonderful developers ... if were interested.
nikon_sam
06-06-2007, 19:40
I'm looking forward to printing real soon...It's the bonus after shooting and then developing "Film"...
I have several rolls of 35mm and 120 that I developed last week that should produce some nice photos...
John Robertson
06-06-2007, 19:44
The other is hanging up to dry a freshly developed roll of E6 transparencies, looks like a jeweled necklace!! I never tire of it!!
mervynyan
06-06-2007, 20:13
i live on the top floor, every room has at least 2 windows, including that of bathroom-:) totally no way to setup a light-proof printing room. should i buy a house with basement first-:) damn, photography is getting more and more expensive...-:)
350D_user
06-08-2007, 03:12
Actually, for some strange reason, I'm beginning to prefer developing only.
... with Adox APH09 as well.
sepiareverb
06-08-2007, 05:54
I've got RA4 chemistry & color paper on the way! I print b&w 2x a week minimum, but I haven't printed color since 1983- this is going to be a blast!
sienarot
06-10-2007, 22:43
I have no idea why, but everytime I get out of the darkroom, this thread coincidently gets bumped up (presumably because someone votes on the poll)! Haha
Sisyphus
06-10-2007, 22:45
I love printing! It really allows me to spend time creating the final image, recreating it to something that I didn't see before. I am not sure if this helps anyone, it deciding whether or not to print, but my method has been to select a the images that I am interested in on the contacts and print them first on 8x10 RC paper. I can generally print about 40 different images in hour--keep in my mind that these are rough prints with a general exposure and a general grade.
I will review them and then selectively choose certain ones for fiber base printing, but I have found that this is a pretty quick process that allows me to view the images first, and at a decent veiwing size. I have also found that this is quicker, for me anyway, than scanning than scanning the images, which is about 5-10 an hour in comparison.
Generally, in an average printing session, it takes me an hour to set up, and if I print for about three or four hours I can get 90 - 100 8x10 RC prints printed. As stated before, I will then select the most interesting images and print fiberbase my next printing session. I have found that this saves me a lot of time, and allows me to still print, but be able to do other things as well.
Happy printing everyone . . .
sepiareverb
06-11-2007, 16:49
This is my method as well- tho I jump right to the fiber paper after my proofsheets (miss that single weight paper). I print up things that look promising, and then edit from these.
Sisyphus
06-11-2007, 19:18
Hmmnnn . . . I have been debating going straight from the contact to fiber, however, I notice, that I really cannot read my contacts or negs as well as i think I should be able to. Sometimes an image on the contact looks great, but when enlarged, it is not as exciting as i was hoping for it to be, or vice versa.
Also, if I started with Fiber first, it is such a long process, the printing, making it the values fall where you wan them to, dodging and burning, and then the processing times, and the final procedures for washing. by the time I done I probably would only be able to see about 20 different images, and I might have missed an image or two otherwise.
Since RC is quicker for the intial proofs, I generally start here then proceed to Fiber.
I am curious to know if you think you have ever missed an image by going from your contacts to your fiber?
Another reason why I start with RC is because I like to use these prints for dummy books as well, and I can write notes on the back, if an idea comes to mind.
Just a thought . . .
Stephanie Brim
06-11-2007, 19:49
I've got RA4 chemistry & color paper on the way! I print b&w 2x a week minimum, but I haven't printed color since 1983- this is going to be a blast!
I was born in 1983. I think you should send me one of those color prints because of that. :D
Artorius
06-11-2007, 21:20
I might have had a job for you. As much as I love the DR, I found I lost a lot of money in the darkroom vs. in the field shooting. Now that I am semi-retired, I tend to scan and print in the computer light-room.
I definitely enjoy printing more than picture taking.
Chris
St.Ephen
06-11-2007, 21:42
Back to basics for me. Touch wood for luck, i'll be back to printing my own negs again, when i move house. It's been years, and have i've forgotten a lot of techniques and such. However, i am sure that i will have the same wonder and joy i had the first time i saw an image of mine appear like magic!!
Sisyphus, that is something i was taught on my HND course. We'd use RC papers for project ideas, enlarging the image before final "judgement" and then use Fibre paper for the final image, display etc. In my interview, i had a scrap book of ideas collected, and few portfolio images. Others had just portfolio shots. My lecturer later told me that it was this book that got me a place because it showed my thought processes, and that's what they were interested in.
Ok.. I voted "I'm all digital now"
Even though that is not true.
I like printing and I think that I can handle my own at printing, but for me (someone who started with digital)... i find that shooting film, scanning it, and then doing all of my work with the digital printing aspect (photoshop) i can get every bit of detail and look that i want out of my prints.
Thus, I would rather do my prints in photoshop rather than the darkroom. I feel limited by the darkroom wet printing. Especially when it comes to 35mm.
I usually do my darkroom work with a friend of mine who is much more into that than I am, he enjoys it very much when he get's to guess the exposures and use multigrade papers with filters. And he's prints are much better than mine. But still I enjoy the feeling there, just relaxing and listening to some music with a good friend. I'm trying to get better at printing. :-)
Not me. I spend enough time sitting here for job and for diversion that to sit here for photogrpahy would just put me over the edge.
Ditto! I just wish I was a better printer (and there's probably only one way to get there; print more! :))
sienarot
09-28-2007, 12:07
I hope to get into the darkroom this weekend. It's been about a month for me. This time will be especially nice as
1) I've gotten speakers for my ipod, so no more humming to myself, and
2) I'm itching to try the new samples of AGFA MCC paper that arrived in the mail from Adox this weekend :D
wlewisiii
10-06-2007, 23:10
Yes, printing is a truely amazing thing. But nothing, utterly nothing, comes close to that first neg coming out of the fixer... The print, while important for sharing, is irrelevant at that point; what matters is the negative.
William
BW darkroom printing is the best, I could spend days doing it, however colour darkroom printing is just not my bag. Dont know how others feel about it?
PHOTOEIL
10-07-2007, 02:51
My 'wet' darkroom is my hermitage for contemplation, It is the place where I can exclude the world, and bringing in the only part the film is bearing and were the thoughts can be unleashed.
Working in the dark room is just more than 'printing' it is thinking to, thinking about other things than just photography, or precisely 'about' photography.
The dry darkroom just takes away the possibilities to think about anything else but P.S., I feel it as a prison for the free thoughts.
This is, to my humble opinion, why the results of my wet prints are better, the atmosphere has an important influence.
I've got RA4 chemistry & color paper on the way! I print b&w 2x a week minimum, but I haven't printed color since 1983- this is going to be a blast!
Where are you getting your RA-4 chemistry from? Are you paying a HazMat charge?
clintoncourier
10-07-2007, 05:56
This discussion will go on as long as there is still film available to develop and the paper and chemicals with which to print image thereon. I compare the discussion to the nuanced differences between listening to music from a 33-1/3 LP and the same music from a digital CD. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE, serious audiophiles will tell you. There is a richness in tonal range in the LP that is often lacking in the os and 1s reproduction of sound in the digital world. I believe this also applies to photography. I've been a shooter for more than 40 years and while I do all of my professional work with a digital system today (I own a newspaper and am its photographer/editor). I still love to shoot film with my Leica M4-P, process the film, and either wet print or scan the results. Digital is certainly faster and more convenient for the purpose I use it for, but film, like that LP sound, has a nuance to it that I do not find in digital.
Joe Dojcsak
10-09-2007, 08:52
I teach conventional, chemical-base printing techniques plus inkjet printing in two totally different classes at Los Angeles City College, CA, and I can assure readers that most students still enjoy the results they get in a traditional darkroom. Furthermore, they become far more proficient in digital photography once they've mastered the basic printing skills in what now is referred to as an analog darkroom.
keithwms
10-09-2007, 10:17
I clicked "absolutely" but I had contact printing in mind, I don't particularly enjoy routine enlarging.
smiling gecko
11-10-2007, 20:48
yes, printing is the greatest thing. why? ...it's just magical.
it is both a coninuing challenge & a continuing learning experience. maybe one of these days i'll get the hang of it. :p
the seeds we plant today are the harvest of today's and tomorrow's children of the world.
kenneth
NEVER FORGET BESLAN
www.neverforgetbeslan.org
www.neverforgetbeslan.com
neverforgetbeslan@gmail.com (thank you mike g in jerusalem)
Hmm, I like the current voting results :D -- is there a way to close the poll?
sweathog
12-11-2007, 16:24
I love being in the darkroom. Black and white or colour, it is the most satisfying process.
Except when you get dust in the equation. It drives me so mad!
chris91387
01-08-2008, 22:02
I teach conventional, chemical-base printing techniques plus inkjet printing in two totally different classes at Los Angeles City College, CA, and I can assure readers that most students still enjoy the results they get in a traditional darkroom. Furthermore, they become far more proficient in digital photography once they've mastered the basic printing skills in what now is referred to as an analog darkroom.
hey joe, i live in valencia.
you have any idea who to call to get an enlarger "cla'd"? i have an old beseler (1970's) 4x5 that seems out of whack.
thanks,
chris
What about the option for dunking your own films but scanning the negs? I would print in a darkroom, but have no room.
terrafirmanada
02-12-2008, 16:35
Definitely my weak suit, this printing thing.
johnastovall
02-20-2008, 09:09
Digital B&W with carbon based inks it as good if not better than anything out of the darkroom.
williams473
02-20-2008, 09:14
I find I am actually getting depressed lately because I am working with a scanner to produce prints from my film only. It is completely possible to get a print every bit as breathtaking using a digital workflow, BUT it takes a lot of knowledge, skill and most importantly, experience to acheive stellar results - just like in a wet darkroom. I don't know if I have the time and energy to spend to get as good with a scanner and pritner as I am with an enlarger and chemicals.
I would consider myself a pretty decent printer. But, I have 4 kids so I have been finding less and less time to mix up chemistry, get into the darkroom and work at the end of a day. If I printed an image and it stinks or I am not happy in any way with it, I become defeated and quit, because the idea is now in the back of my head that I could be doing this all so much faster on my scanner. It's like I've now eaten from the forbidden tree, and I hate the quandary!
At first I was overjoyed with the time I think I am saving working digitally, and I actually have learned a lot about working my prints up in PS, but there is a whole new set of annoying holdups not present in wet printing - like DUST. You think dust is bad when optically printing? Oh MAN is it an issue in scanning. I'd much rather spot tone the one or two specks on my conventional print than spend 20 mins in PS cloning out every little bit the scanner seems to pick up.
But I digress - this isn't a digital versus optical opinion - like I said before you can get first rate professioanl work with either process. I just think I am really missing the darkroom, but feel frustrated because I don't have enough time to get to the end result I am seeking - finished prints I don't have to make excuses for. Maybe there's no shortcuts when it comes to black and white - maybe if you're just getting in to black and white and scanning negs, a digital file output on good paper with archival ink and all that looks fine, but I must agree with a lot of other people who have posted in this thread; I really have to say that nothing beats a silver print - it's about feel, which is something you just can't quantify.
BigSteveG
02-20-2008, 11:01
It would be tough to find anyone to work on an enlarger. I suppose an electrical shop if thats the issue. If not, you can buy alignment tools.
hey joe, i live in valencia.
you have any idea who to call to get an enlarger "cla'd"? i have an old beseler (1970's) 4x5 that seems out of whack.
thanks,
chris
manfromh
02-25-2008, 03:20
About an hour ago I finished doing my first prints in my bathroom. I covered the enlarger area with a dark towel, since there was a lot of light coming through the door cracks. I didnt check the developing times. I just kept them in there until they looked right. I think I exposed one paper too much, because a fully developed image appeared in about 15 seconds, so I quickly got it into the stop-bath. I did 6 prints + test strips in 2 hours, and I cant wait to get in there again. The prints are quite curly, but I hope keeping them under something heavy will straighten them up.
I used Slavich Unibrom 160 BP paper and Slavich UP-2 developer.
williams473
02-25-2008, 05:58
ManfromH - good for you getting into the darkroom. One thing you mentioned I should caution you on though - don't evaluate when your print is done processing based on how it looks. At least for a while, stick to the set time the paper manufacturer recommends for whatever developer you are using. Reason being, it is hard to judge exactly what have when looking at it under chemistry in safe light. The first tones that "come up" on the paper in the developer are your darkest areas, which will come up even faster if you are using RC paper. The lighter areas of your prints - the zone 6, 7 and 8 areas, take longer to fully develop, and while you think they may be done, they may need the full time, or (even more.) By pulling your print out early you are cheating yourself of getting the full range of your negative in the print. Rest assured that the tone of your blacks have already been detrmined first by the exposure and development of your film, and then by the exposure in your enlarger. The whites are much more dependent on length of time in the developer, so while the blacks come in fast, they won't be much affected by the rest of the time spent in the developer.
Perhaps the most important reason for not developing your prints by "feel," is that it is hard to quantify what you've done and repeat it in the future. Try to establish a baseline starting point for a good print, and if you have to overdevelop a little more or less, you can make a note of that for the future. There are just too many variables in the whole proces of getting to the final print to allow developing time to be a guessing game. Make your creative decisions for what you want the print to look like from your test strips, and then stick your decisions and evaluate the print from there.
Hope that helps a bit.
williams473
02-25-2008, 06:06
Sitemistic - I would love to use Digital Ice but I almost always scan black and white film, which makes Digital Ice useless unfortunately. but if I ever shoot/scan color, I'll be sure to sue it. For black and white, usually when retouching a broad area of uniform tone, I'll use the "dust and scratches" filter in PS, which works well. But for any are of the negative with detail, it's a LOT of cloning for me.
After I gave up trying to be rational with people on that thread I started in philosophy, I actually rebuilt my darkroom yesterday afternoon. I would like to say it was because I'm sick of digital and long for the conventional process again, but in truth, I got drunk and ordered a used Fuji GA645ZI from KEH online Friday night, and now I have to sell my scanner to pay for it! :) I'm a lot more comfortable in the darkroom anyway, but I'll keep learning, and reading on the digital forums.
Here is my nightmare: I have to move and the new place has no room for a darkroom. No place for the enlarger or trays. I have to sell everything and move to hybrid or digital. Then a 1000 ton weight hits me and my remains are eaten by army ants as things could only get better from there on.
Stefan
manfromh
02-29-2008, 09:08
I did another printing session today, and I payd more attention to the times and was generally more careful. The results are a lot better aswell (I actualy got blacks and whites) :)
ibcrewin
02-29-2008, 10:12
I'm going in tonight! to do some printin'! I'll check back in on Monday!
Though the poll sounds as "Isn't Darkroom Printing the Greatest Thing?" (as opposite to "Is Darkroom Printing the Greatest Thing?") my answer is absolutely, i.e. it is absolutely the greatest thing. I don't care about results and comparing real prints with inkjet prints. I like the process. One can buy much better fish than (s)he may catch spending a day on a bank of river, but some people still go fishing.
Cheers,
Eduard.
AshenLight
07-03-2008, 08:56
Its the perfect antidote to an otherwise hectic life. An iPod, decent negatives, a 67c and 4 trays... thats about as good as it gets.
I like it very much, it is so slow and baryt paper is always surprising to me and you could do so many variation.
sem
nikon_sam
07-03-2008, 10:52
Set up the Darkroom two days ago and developed a few prints...found a wonderful neg I wasn't even looking for...will print it again with paper more suited for this shot...
Made prints for the family of shots taken at my Brother-Inlaw's College Graduation...
I don't think they know I was shooting B&W...so far the wife is happy with them...
crawdiddy
07-03-2008, 12:36
Has anyone heard from ibcrewin? He's been in the darkroom since 02/29.
sepiareverb
07-06-2008, 18:53
Has anyone heard from ibcrewin? He's been in the darkroom since 02/29.
Thought you meant February 1929 there for a minute.:eek:
From the sound of things on some other threads printing 35mm is just always a disappointment though, all that ugly grain and lack of 'sharpness' :D
crawdiddy
07-16-2008, 19:45
Thought you meant February 1929 there for a minute.:eek:
From the sound of things on some other threads printing 35mm is just always a disappointment though, all that ugly grain and lack of 'sharpness' :D
No, I just noticed he said he was going into the darkroom, and would check in on Monday. That was in February, and he never checked in. :rolleyes:
Ugly grain and lack of sharpness, huh? I love the grain. I usually go for maximum sharpness in the printing process, though. But I do enjoy OOF background/highlights on the negative. Out of focus stuff is sort of the visual equivalent of distortion in music, which I also enjoy. Some people have funny ideas. Some on this very forum make snide remarks about bokeh.
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