Coffee processing

[rcoder]

Sorry if this has been covered here before, but I just thought I'd chime in for anyone who hasn't already heard about it: you really can develop B/W film in coffee!

The film I used was probably almost half as old as I am -- it was bulk-loaded by a friend in his last photography class almost 10 years ago, and god only knows how long it had sat on a shelf before that. We also used the 'Caffenol C' variant of the developer mix, which adds a pinch of Vitamin C to the usual coffee and washing soda recipe as an accelerator.

Regardless, I'm pretty happy with the results, considering we had almost no real control of dilution rates or temperature, (it was all done in my kitchen, using guesstimated measurements and timing) and given that our fixer was a 1:4 dilution of no-name aquarium de-chlorinator which we guess (it would appear correctly) was mostly sodium thiosulfate, a.k.a. "hypo".

Anyway, it was cheap, fun, and about as non-toxic as I think film developing can get. I think I'm going to see how well cheapo store-brand C41 holds up to similar treatment next -- B/W film is just getting too hard to track down.

(see the rest on flickr) (http://flickr.com/photos/rcoder/sets/72157594532981946/)

[ibcrewin]

Wow.. Love it! I think they look great.. Do you know if you can make prints using coffee and RC paper?

[cruz]

Looks too good to be true, could you give us some details was it decaf, instant, grounded coffee, proportions etc

[rcoder]

I've heard of people using coffee for prints, but it does leave a pretty noticeable stain, which may or may not be your thing. I'd love to see results, but I think I'm going to be sticking to daylight developing + scanning the negs for most of my film handing for the forseeable future.

An additional caution about said staining: it will also affect plastic developing reels, tanks, seals, etc., so if you worry about such things, you might want to either use stainless, or just use an older crappier set of tanks and reels than you do for your "nice" developing.

[rcoder]

for cruz (even though all of this is in the desc. for the flickr set):

The recipe was adapted from the digitaltruth Caffenol-C recipe (http://www.digitaltruth.com/techdata/caffenol.php). I actually used fresh coffee (Stumptown Hairbender Blend, roasted less than a mile from my house) brewed at normal strength through a regular cone filter, then re-filtered and diluted from 8oz. to 10 oz. with cold tap water. The Vitamin C and washing soda were added in the same amounts as the above recipe, and processing was done at an initial temp of 85 deg. F.

Developing time was 12 minutes with near-constant agitation, followed by a basic cold water stop rinse. I used no-name aquarium de-chlorinator as a fixer, guessing it would probably be mostly sodium thiosulfate (a.k.a. "hypo") -- which appears to have been the right guess.

The shots in this set were all from the second roll run through the same batch of developer -- the first roll was developed for more like 14 minutes (also prior to adding the tap-water to the developer), and came out a bit too fogged and stained to be really appealing. It appears the first roll may have soaked up a fair bit of the dyes in the coffee, as well, since these came out only very lightly stained.

Washing and drying were done in my bathroom, and scans were provided by the local department store photo-processing lab at the bargain price of $2 (for 6MP scans, no less!). All of the shots have had a slight de-speckling filter applied, since the old film and slight "push" of the Caffenol-C recipe conspired to create enough grain to produce a lot of nasty JPEG artifacts in the compressed scans.

[Wimpler]

I have made prints using coffee. I have also developed prints using chicory and cocoa (as far as I know I'm the only one who did that...). Chicory works fine, cocoa is a mess.

Here is a print:

http://static.flickr.com/101/253415858_e8aef395a9.jpg

Just took 300mL of strong coffee and added 2 teaspoons of washing soda. Processed for 30 minutes.

Haven't tried film.

Oh and here is a print from a color slide with coffee, inverted after scanning:

http://static.flickr.com/94/253415856_c823c8171c.jpg

[Pherdinand]

Can you drink the coffee after it?
Oh wait, it has soda...must taste terrible.

[Pherdinand]

wimpler, those look great! Just plain E-6 color slide?? Could you please post a cropped/enlarged portion to see how it looks in large?

[RML]

Cool.

Heard of it before, of course, but never tried it myself.
Sounds like a cool project for developing the negs from the third Pass the RF. :)

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=486096#post486096

[titrisol]

IMHO coffee can develop anything given ahough carbonate. Caffeic acid is very similar to catechol.

I'm one of the original Caffenol C makers a few years back (together with Donald Qualls) based on a paper from MIT (late 80s) and a Shutterbug article, and Patrick Gainer ascorbic articles on PT magazine.

Adding ascorbate was a good method to make the stain less strong and boost shadow detail.
4 g/l of final solution is more than plenty, I don't know what digital truth has published but it shoul dbe fine.

Some points to rememebr:
- Instnat coffee is cheaper and can be made very concentrate
- Dissolve the carbonate first, then the ascorbate (if needed) and when all the grit is gone add the coffee
- Development time is not critical and tends to be in the 35-50 min range
- Stain is very strong if you dont use ascorbate and is good to mask grain and lower contrast in traditional processes, however it can cause problems with scanners.

That said, have fun and enjoy

for cruz (even though all of this is in the desc. for the flickr set):

The recipe was adapted from the digitaltruth Caffenol-C recipe (http://www.digitaltruth.com/techdata/caffenol.php). I actually used fresh coffee (Stumptown Hairbender Blend, roasted less than a mile from my house) brewed at normal strength through a regular cone filter, then re-filtered and diluted from 8oz. to 10 oz. with cold tap water. The Vitamin C and washing soda were added in the same amounts as the above recipe, and processing was done at an initial temp of 85 deg. F.

Developing time was 12 minutes with near-constant agitation, followed by a basic cold water stop rinse. I used no-name aquarium de-chlorinator as a fixer, guessing it would probably be mostly sodium thiosulfate (a.k.a. "hypo") -- which appears to have been the right guess.

The shots in this set were all from the second roll run through the same batch of developer -- the first roll was developed for more like 14 minutes (also prior to adding the tap-water to the developer), and came out a bit too fogged and stained to be really appealing. It appears the first roll may have soaked up a fair bit of the dyes in the coffee, as well, since these came out only very lightly stained.

Washing and drying were done in my bathroom, and scans were provided by the local department store photo-processing lab at the bargain price of $2 (for 6MP scans, no less!). All of the shots have had a slight de-speckling filter applied, since the old film and slight "push" of the Caffenol-C recipe conspired to create enough grain to produce a lot of nasty JPEG artifacts in the compressed scans.

[shadowfox]

titrisol, you said:
"- Stain is very strong if you dont use ascorbate and is good to mask grain and lower contrast in traditional processes, however it can cause problems with scanners."

What kind of problems with scanners are you referring to? I use a Nikon Coolscan film only scanner, will it be messed up inside if I scan coffee developed negatives?

[taffer]

In flickr terms, I'd say that this thread has become an instant fav ! C-41 and old slide film sounds wonderful to my ears also, since I've happened to accumulate a few of bulk-loaded both, lol.

[RML]

What is (the source of) Ascorbic Acid or Erythorbic Acid?

[RML]

What is (the source of) Ascorbic Acid or Erythorbic Acid?

To answer myself: ascorbic acid is vitamin C.

So, if I were to get some of these vitamin C pills and crush them, how much would I need? And would it work?

Anyone from Holland who tried this and can recommend some brands that are sold here?

[RML]

BTW, what to use for fixer?

And how about rinsing?

[ibcrewin]

I think someone mentioned Aquarium De chlorinator, diluted 1:4. I think salt water works too.. Although I haven't tried it..

[Wimpler]

Salt water does not work for fixing. Use regular fixer. It is still easy to find (atlleast for me it is), and it is cheap.

Please note that what I posted was not E-6 film processed in coffee. It was E-6 film processed by the regular E-6 process by a lab. Then I took the slide and made a negative print in the darkroom. I processed this print in coffee. I then scanned the print. I could also have contact printed the negative print.

[rcoder]

RML: You could also check a health-food store -- many of them here (west coast USA) have Vitamin C in bulk, which is considerably more economical and time-effective than crushing up tablets. (It's also much easier to measure by volume instead of weight, since the mass/volume ratio is a known quantity.)

And yes, I mentioned using acquarium de-chlorinator as fixer, because I found a brand of said chems that turned out to be comprised almost entirely of sodium thiosulfate, a classic (and relatively non-toxic) fixer. As I understand it, most modern fixers are based on ammonium thiosulfate, which is faster-acting, but less commonly used in other industries.

My objective in using this process was to find everyday sources for photographic chemistry, not attain the highest quality possible. My actual goal is to be prepared to develop my own photographs while travelling in third-world countries, without carrying a large quantity of volatile darkroom chemicals with me. Hence the focus on readily-available ingredients, lax timing and temperature control, etc.

[RML]

RML: You could also check a health-food store -- many of them here (west coast USA) have Vitamin C in bulk, which is considerably more economical and time-effective than crushing up tablets. (It's also much easier to measure by volume instead of weight, since the mass/volume ratio is a known quantity.)

Thanks. I'll see what they have in store here around.


And yes, I mentioned using acquarium de-chlorinator as fixer, because I found a brand of said chems that turned out to be comprised almost entirely of sodium thiosulfate, a classic (and relatively non-toxic) fixer. As I understand it, most modern fixers are based on ammonium thiosulfate, which is faster-acting, but less commonly used in other industries.

Apart from ordinary fixer or the mentione de-chlorinator, is there anything else that could work and I'd find in my kitchen for instance? I like your objective, which is one that would suit me as well. Even though I shoot digital 98% of the time, I often end up in Mongolia and it'd be cool to let some of my cousins-in-law do some of this coffee-based developing.

[rcoder]

RML: It's technically possible to use simpler componds such as saltwater or household ammonia as a photographic fixer, but neither is nearly as effective -- saltwater only dissolves a portion of the silver halides left in the emulsion, which will inevitably result in a fogged negative, and dilute ammonia just isn't reactive enough to do a thorough job.

I'm curious to see how well my ghetto fixer holds up, though; I'll be running another batch of rolls through the same process tonight, (including a roll of exposed Tri-X I found in a box that has to be at least five years old and some cheapo C41) and will be sure to post results here.

[RML]

A ran around different stores today but alas, no de-chlorinator. The water here in Holland isn't chlorinated, so there is hardly any demand for a de-chlorinator.

So, is there really no other "household" chemical I could use?

Then again, I see that a 125ml bottle of Amaloco fixer costs less than 2 euro. :)

[titrisol]

With some films (APX400, Fortepan) the stain is incredibly dense, printing times with enlarger were in the 3 minute order
By having such a dense stain it is "black" for the scanner.

titrisol, you said:
"- Stain is very strong if you dont use ascorbate and is good to mask grain and lower contrast in traditional processes, however it can cause problems with scanners."

What kind of problems with scanners are you referring to? I use a Nikon Coolscan film only scanner, will it be messed up inside if I scan coffee developed negatives?

[titrisol]

Pool Dechlorinator = Sodium thiosulfate = hypo
It has been used as fixer for ages. A lot slower than ammonium thiosulfate, so you have to fix for 15-20 minutes instead of 5.

RML: It's technically possible to use simpler componds such as saltwater or household ammonia as a photographic fixer, but neither is nearly as effective -- saltwater only dissolves a portion of the silver halides left in the emulsion, which will inevitably result in a fogged negative, and dilute ammonia just isn't reactive enough to do a thorough job.

I'm curious to see how well my ghetto fixer holds up, though; I'll be running another batch of rolls through the same process tonight, (including a roll of exposed Tri-X I found in a box that has to be at least five years old and some cheapo C41) and will be sure to post results here.

[RML]

Pool Dechlorinator = Sodium thiosulfate = hypo
It has been used as fixer for ages. A lot slower than ammonium thiosulfate, so you have to fix for 15-20 minutes instead of 5.

I asked around for pool de-chlorinator. No-one can tell me if it is being sold here. Everyone tells me it's nigh impossible to over-chlorinate pools nowadays. Pools are chlorinated by throwing in pucks of chemicals that have the right amount of chemicals for such-and-such amount of water. So, you just need to know how much water your pool holds and throw in the required number of chlorine pucks.

Another thing is that manufacturers of pool and aquarium chemicals are NOT required to put the chemical ingredients on the packaging.

But like I said, Amaloco fixer is cheap. :)

[titrisol]

I asked around for pool de-chlorinator. No-one can tell me if it is being sold here. Everyone tells me it's nigh impossible to over-chlorinate pools nowadays. Pools are chlorinated by throwing in pucks of chemicals that have the right amount of chemicals for such-and-such amount of water. So, you just need to know how much water your pool holds and throw in the required number of chlorine pucks.

Another thing is that manufacturers of pool and aquarium chemicals are NOT required to put the chemical ingredients on the packaging.

But like I said, Amaloco fixer is cheap. :)
Yup, Amaloco is cheap !
Same i nthe US, Sprint or Clayton fixer is cheap

However, if you want to make your own, HYPO is still very cheap and you can buy it in 10kg bags.

[RML]

I posted some of the results of my developed-in-caffenol roll of Efke KB100 (exposed in Aug. 2005, in a FED-5 with I-61 L/D lens) on my blog:

http://shardsofphotography.blogspot.com/2007/03/developing-film-in-coffee-1-roll-of_03.html

[Pherdinand]

remy, the caffenol seems to have worked excellent!

[RML]

remy, the caffenol seems to have worked excellent!

It did! Much to my surprise, really. I was interested to see the staining people reoprted but my negs don't have any staining. They look the same as when developed in Rodinal... just plain shades of grey. :)

But it's fine with me. Yesterday I was able to lay my paws on a litre of Amaloco Proffix fixer, so I can develop a few more rolls that I have lying about. :)

Now I wish I had bought a tank for 120 film. When I bought my tank I could choose and chose for 135/126 film size. Silly me. Now I have a handful of 120 films that I can't develop yet. :)

Anyone willing to part with a 120 film Paterson tank? :p

[rxmd]

Hi Rémy,
I was interested to see the staining people reoprted but my negs don't have any staining.
Er, "staining" refers to a class of developers. Normal developers just develop the silver halide crystals in the film. A "staining" developer is one that is coloured itself and that in addition to developing deposits some of its own colour in the places where there are silver halide crystals in the emulsion. That gives a little extra maximum density to the negative, because in the dark parts of the negative there is not only the grain itself but also pigments from the developer.

The classic staining developer is Pyro, a well-known commercial one is Wolfgang Moersch's Tanol, and an unorthodox one is coffee.

So "staining" doesn't mean that there are stains on the negative :)

Philipp

[RML]

So "staining" doesn't mean that there are stains on the negative :)

I realise that, Phillip. :)
I was interested to see the kind of staining you refer to. However, there wasn't any. The negs and scans are just shades of grey as I'm used to. No colour shifts to brown or anything to be noticed. I was a little disappointed when I saw that but now I don't even know why I was disappointed. The caffenol worked a charm and I now have a cheap way of developing my negs without having to measure the chemicals in minute detail. Just a few scoops of coffee and soda, mixing it, and dunking the film in it for some 30 minutes. How easy is that? :p

BTW, the stains on the scans are drying marks. I'm too lazy to go out and look for the proper water. I just boiled some water, let it cool and sprayed the film with it when it was hanging to dry. :)

[titrisol]

Only 135/126?
Most plastic rels go to 120.
I use the KALT brand, which is good enough

It did! Much to my surprise, really. I was interested to see the staining people reoprted but my negs don't have any staining. They look the same as when developed in Rodinal... just plain shades of grey. :)

But it's fine with me. Yesterday I was able to lay my paws on a litre of Amaloco Proffix fixer, so I can develop a few more rolls that I have lying about. :)

Now I wish I had bought a tank for 120 film. When I bought my tank I could choose and chose for 135/126 film size. Silly me. Now I have a handful of 120 films that I can't develop yet. :)

Anyone willing to part with a 120 film Paterson tank? :p

[Pherdinand]

remy, marktplaats.nl always has some offer on darkroom stuff. That's where i also bought mine.
I could give you one of my older tanks (the reels suck anyway so i probably won't ever use those), but it's an older paterson model and the Universal type reels are too wide for it.:(

Otherwise, a secondhand shop in amsterdam should have some i guess.

By the way i thought you kinda stopped shooting film. 120-film???really?

[RML]

remy, marktplaats.nl always has some offer on darkroom stuff. That's where i also bought mine.

Marktplaats is probably the way to go. I already found one seller for a SS4 tank. Asked him a few questions, and I'm now waiting for an answer.


By the way i thought you kinda stopped shooting film. 120-film???really?

I've stopped shooting film, yes, but once in a while I'd like to venture into "new" areas. When I moved house, I looked and found some really nice folders (126 film, 120 film, 6x9, 6x13) (Stephanie Brim and others sold me theirs for good chocolate. :p ). I just had to shoot those, of course. Those films are still lying about the house. I also took my Holga to New York last year February (colour neg). And when I won the Zeiss Ikon I bought me pack of Lucky film. Still have to develop those rolls, and didn't finish the pack yet. :p

Now with the coffee-&-soda method I kinda like developing those films. I think it's the lovely coffee smell (which BTW turns to the smell of old burn frying lard after you add the soda!).

[RML]

Only 135/126?
Most plastic rels go to 120.
I use the KALT brand, which is good enough

Could be.
My Paterson tank explicitly says it's only for 135 and 126 film.

[rxmd]

Hi Rémy,
The negs and scans are just shades of grey as I'm used to. No colour shifts to brown or anything to be noticed.
I guess it needn't be easily visible to the naked eye. Tanol-stained negatives look pretty much like normal ones, but the extra density is there still. However, it usually also depends on the film.

Did you use espresso? :D :D

Philipp

[RML]

I guess it needn't be easily visible to the naked eye. Tanol-stained negatives look pretty much like normal ones, but the extra density is there still. However, it usually also depends on the film.

Ah, OK. That could be. But
_judging from the scans I posted_ (http://shardsofphotography.blogspot.com/2007/03/developing-film-in-coffee-1-roll-of_03.html) I doubt there was much staining.


Did you use espresso? :D :D

Nope. Nescape Cap Colmbie. I got a pot years ago in ym X-mas bonus gift from my work. I don't drink coffee at all so it kinda stays in the cupboard. And since it's Arabica coffee, I thought it might be a good coffee to start with.

I also have 2 packs of 1 kg (IIRC) of Indian coffee somewhere. I might try that one day.

Dang, this way I'll become a coffee connoisseur sans égale. :p

[RML]

I had a dream about this last night, after reading this thread.

I dreamt that I could develop my negs cheaply, safely (with respect to the environment), and enjoy a unique look to my pics.

Coffee and soda for developer. Water or vinegar for stop bath. All that's left is fixer. De-chlorinator will do but that's not too environment friendly I believe.

[Chaser]

I had a dream about this last night, after reading this thread.

I dreamt that I could develop my negs cheaply, safely (with respect to the environment), and enjoy a unique look to my pics.


http://www.digitaltruth.com/store/silvergrain.html

Silvergrain chemicals are a close match. Not that expensive, though cheap is a relative thing, and if you handle fixer properly and find a place that will take it in to pull the silver out you've got some environmentally respectfull chems going. Unique look is another thing that is relative like cheap...but there is at least an option.

[titrisol]

I had a dream about this last night, after reading this thread.

I dreamt that I could develop my negs cheaply, safely (with respect to the environment), and enjoy a unique look to my pics.

Cheaply... use Diafine... safely unless you drink it
Environementally friendly because you can develop gggooobbbsss of films in one batch

Fixer is very friendly actually, it is the silver form the film that may cause some harm. But for an amaetuer it should not really be a concern.

IMHO developing 100 rolls of film a year generates way less pollution than doing the same thing digital

[titrisol]

2nd thoughts
Safely: Vitamin C is an excellent film developer
Vitamin C + Washing Soda yields good enough negatives ;)

[RML]

To see the scans of my caffenol-developed negs and more information on how and what I did, check the following links:

http://shardsofphotography.blogspot.com/2007/03/developing-film-in-coffee-1-roll-of_06.html

http://shardsofphotography.blogspot.com/2007/03/pass-rf-part-3-update_06.html

http://shardsofphotography.blogspot.com/2007/03/developing-film-in-coffee-1-roll-of_04.html

http://shardsofphotography.blogspot.com/2007/03/developing-film-in-coffee-1-roll-of_03.html

http://shardsofphotography.blogspot.com/2007/03/developing-film-in-coffee-1-roll-of.html

http://shardsofphotography.blogspot.com/2007/02/developing-film-in-coffee.html

[pietjs]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5184/5564524380_3570c06cab_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pietjs/5564524380/)
PAPPADUMS AND NAAN portra160VC (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pietjs/5564524380/) by pietjs© (http://www.flickr.com/people/pietjs/), on Flickr

Test-shot with Minolta XD7 on Portra 160VC at 100ASA, 50mm rokkor MD f1.4, 1/60sec,
Developped caffenol Delta STD at 20C 15 mins

Scanned on Epson V500 with Epson scan software at Professional mode, 4800dpi 16 bit gray, auto correction-medium, Gamma 2.2

This image is showing 'all' off the grey shades Portra film is capable of with a wide exposure latidude...