M8 Problems Static charges [Archive]

Sailor Ted

01-20-2007, 19:09

A few isolated reports and the predictable dog pile from others who do not own the camera seems an epidemic. It reminds me of the Bird Flu scare in Hong Kong- this shut down the city for nearly a year and half and in the same time more people drown in their chicken soup in Manhattan then were infected with the flu in Hong Kong (a joke but not far off.)

I had my M8 in Vegas a one week ago and I have never seen such static in the air- I shocked the camera several times and it works fine. If the camera has an issue I doubt seriously that it’s static related but hey, a lie or a rumor repeated a thousand times (or a couple dozen times on the net) suddenly becomes gospel.

Trius

01-20-2007, 19:14

tmessenger

01-20-2007, 19:21

I wonder how many hundreds of them have failed, the sky is falling the sky is falling.

A few isolated reports and the predictable dog pile from others who do not own the camera seems an epidemic. It reminds me of the Bird Flu scare in Hong Kong- this shut down the city for nearly a year and half and in the same time more people drown in their chicken soup in Manhattan then were infected with the flu in Hong Kong (a joke but not far off.)

I had my M8 in Vegas a one week ago and I have never seen such static in the air- I shocked the camera several times and it works fine. If the camera has an issue I doubt seriously that it’s static related but hey, a lie or a rumor repeated a thousand times (or a couple dozen times on the net) suddenly becomes gospel.

spersky

01-20-2007, 19:23

I would hardly say isolated. There seemed to be many people in that post with problems. Look at the sample size which is small vs the amount of problems. Why are you so defensive. Maybe it is just a miracle you have not had a problem with the M8. Does that not mean that other people should not hear about potential problems and maybe save themselves from a 5000 dollar nightmare.

Sure cut Leica some slack at first, but now it seems that Leica might have been over thier head on this bold release of the M8. They will have have to deal with the problems.

Regards

Sailor Ted

01-20-2007, 19:30

A miracle? Perhaps and perhaps if I have the time I’ll sift through that post and count the actual Leica M8 owners from the throng who do not own the camera that are chiming in as they always do, there and here. Sorry if this sounds defensive but the actual number of people who have issues vs. the ratio of people who profess to be M8 experts and have never set eyes on the camera never mind touched one are probably 30 to 1.

Defensive? No. Pragmatic? Yes.

jaapv

01-20-2007, 19:40

Are we working ourselves into yet another internet frenzy? - sorry count me out. I'm off taking photographs with my apparently fatally flawed M8...

Sailor Ted

01-20-2007, 19:52

Ted: True enough, but those reports seem more than "a few isolated". But whatever, if static is an issue (and there does seem to be enough anecdotal evidence), then it also makes sense that assembly line/production/QA issues would explain the variability of experience. JMO, but for $5K for a body ... I'm still a bit gobsmacked. I am also impressed with the quality of M8 images when everything is right, so there you go.

Trius,
At this point it's just a hand full of reports- and way too soon to be bandying about words like "inexcusable" let alone if there is an issue attributable it to static electricity (I shocked my camera a dozen times at least last week in Vegas and it's working perfectly). There are just not enough facts on the table yet and we cannot determine whether or not this is just a statistical norm given the number of camera bodies sold or a malfunction. If there is an issue it will show it's self, however at this point it seems premature to call.

And you are correct the images this camera can produce are impressive : )

Ted

Keith

01-20-2007, 21:11

Ted ... It's interesting ... but all this is really bizarre. Trying to estimate the failure rate of any consumer device based on the reports of those who actually choose to be vocal about it, sure is fraught with danger. The only people who would be aware of the failure rate as a percentage of cameras actually sold would be Leica ... and it's not like they are some mega manufacturer with two hundred thousand units sold ... and sufficient feedback from dealers, customers etc to be able to analyze their situation and predict their vulnerability. ie ... the cameras future and their ongoing success in the digital market!

When they have this figure and who knows whether it's 2% or 7% at this stage, I'm sure they will make some descisions over persisting with the problems or aiming for a much improved successor. They will have to sell a lot more cameras yet to able to see the picture clearly ... (pardon the pun).

What do you think Ted ... not that we often have to ask! :D :D :D

Sailor Ted

01-20-2007, 21:24

I think it's premature at this time. I know my camera is working fine however anything is possible. I took a look at the original link and as I suspected there were only a few M8 users reporting. That said many people were chiming making the "problem" look far worse then the actual numbers should suggest.

Back to you- what do you think, is there a tendency by those who do not actually own this camera to blow any real or imagined issues out of proportion? : )

Also if it’s too early to reliably get an idea of the cameras effected (assuming this is not just a coincidence) then how can we make a condemning call (so early on?) Like I said the tendency to swing irrationally to the negative overpowers any tendency to assume the best- very few call the nay Sayers and those that do are somewhat stigmatized.

Keith

01-20-2007, 21:37

I think that surmising over the future of this camera is pointless at the moment ... mind you it sure keeps this forum busy! I'm not passionate about the camera because I don't own one so consequently, in spite of my awe of Leica, I view what may happen from a safe point ... dispassionately!

As a manufacturer though they will at some stage further down the track, have collated enough information to be able to say ... "It's fine but we have had some unfortunate teething problems and after all the warranty/failure rate was only 1.4%."

or ... "Oh s**t ... 11.6% ... this is the new Edsel, get me that shredder! and a plane ticket to South America!"

:D

Trius

01-20-2007, 21:46

Ted, you are right about the statistical part, and I have taken "your" position on the ZI. I presume more ZIs have been sold than M8s, but who knows.

My use of the word inexcusable was perhaps a bit much, but whether static or not, those kinds of problems, whether they affect you (Ted) or not, are more than unsettling. In a sense, it's not fair to focus on M8 problems because it's a $5K camera, but somehow I expect more of a Lexus than a Kia...

Keep shooting it man, and I hope it never gives you a single problem.

Sailor Ted

01-20-2007, 22:02

**sigh** I have never owned a machine that did not have issues- ever. That said some are already adding another black mark to this camera? And after only a few reports?! From what I can tell this camera is amazing and works much better then my other DRF that can hardly be called on to focus one day to the next (or new from the factory). Again this is far to premature- really now.

I’m not saying this is the case, nor do I think it is the point, but I would like to make this observation- I'll bet I could make up a fictitious user name here or elsewhere, create a wild story about the M8, and all the usual suspects would chime in, and after a few days it would be the next horrible black mark- see my point? For the record I do believe everyone of the handful of people who reported issues to be genuine but I also believe every other digi-camera sold has a percentage of failures and sooner rather then later, but no one is making sweeping generalizations about that.

Oh well.

Sailor Ted

01-20-2007, 22:05

get me that shredder! and a plane ticket to South America!"

:D

Keith is that still a favorite sanctuary for fleeing Germans? :eek:

Also since we have a forum that stigmatizes the M8 "reported problems" or some such is this thread not incorrectly posted?

jlw

01-20-2007, 22:18

I just went and read that entire thread, and there seem to be several consistent, well-documented reports (one by Sean Reid) of a new type of M8 failure in which the rear LCD and menus keep working but the top LCD goes dead and the camera can't be powered off.

However, static-charge effects are just one area of speculation; loose battery contacts are another. The reason "static charge" seems to figure so prominently in the thread was that someone suggested it as a possible cause, and then other people started discussing the properties of static charges and their possible effects on cameras in general. (I call this discussion-forum phenomenon the "barking dog effect" -- as when one dog in the neighborhood barks at a squirrel, or the mailman, or whatever, and immediately every other dog in the neighborhood starts barking too. The first dog is barking at something, and the other dogs are all barking at the first dog).

It's probably best not to read too much into these reports, but on the other hand it's also probably worth keeping in mind that, as Reid posted in that thread, "Frankly, it takes a bit of patience and perspective to be an M8 owner right now."

My own take: Man, I'll bet Epson is wishing they had about 5,000 R-D 1 refurbs in the warehouse...

Keith

01-20-2007, 22:20

Keith is that still a favorite sanctuary for fleeing Germans? :eek:

They uncover the odd one over here in Oz every now and then ... so if the big Leica Cheese does do a runner I hope he comes here and brings me a couple of discount M8's ... he can hide at my place! :angel:

Sailor Ted

01-20-2007, 22:29

"Frankly, it takes a bit of patience and perspective to be an M8 owner right now."

My own take: Man, I'll bet Epson is wishing they had about 5,000 R-D 1 refurbs in the warehouse...

I agree however for different reasons then you might expect. As to the R-D1, I'm working on my second body and it looks as if I need to send it back for a third- and not a refurb either; brand new R-D1s's from Robert White. At this point and aside from the IR shift, the M8's issues are speculative, the R-D1's are fact.

PS. How many individual users did you count on that thread :rolleyes: ?

jlw

01-20-2007, 22:59

At this point and aside from the IR shift, the M8's issues are speculative, the R-D1's are fact.

I'd say the R-D 1's issues are well-documented and generally fixable; the M8's issues are sporadic and harder to trace, which probably indicates a sounder basic design but likely isn't much comfort for the person who just discovered that his camera won't fire and won't shut off and is greeted with skepticism as to the problem even being real (just as the IR, green-blob, streaking, and rainbow problems were until the evidence became overwhelming.)

Maybe what this is teaching is that DRFs in general are like old Jaguars: you need to own at least two, so you've got one to use while the other one is off being fixed!

Sailor Ted

01-20-2007, 23:06

Well jlw you can continue to make these assertions regarding the M8's reliability as well as "all those effected" however I do not believe Gen 2 versions have the sporadic problems you assert aside from what should be expected.

Perhaps I will spoof an M8 issue and fess up a day or two later if only to illustrate how quick some are to throw stones and to follow in.

jlw

01-20-2007, 23:17

Well jlw you can continue to make these assertions regarding the M8's reliability as well as "all those effected"

Yeah, that's me, I'm the guy who just two or three posts above this one made the shocking assertion, "It's probably best not to read too much into these reports." Gosh, what a shamelessly vicious M8-basher I am!

Sailor Ted

01-20-2007, 23:23

jlw I did not mean to piss you off- sorry. However my points still stand- I'm also curious how many M8 users did you count?

Also have you read William Shakepeare's Julius Ceser "Et tu, Brutus"?

That’s how I basically see people who on the one hand say "don't read too much into it" then on the other hand continue to spread a rumor. At this point it's just a few reports nothing more, nothing less. If said conjecture were prefaced as being based on a few reports I would not take issue.

jlw

01-20-2007, 23:56

I was trying to be wry, not P.O'ed. My humor calibration may be a bit off at this time of the morning.

Just for the record, I went back to the Leica user forum and counted posts in the thread. As of a few minutes ago there were 69 posts; five were from M8 users reporting the same set of symptoms, one was a secondhand pointer to another thread describing another owner's similar problem, and four were descriptions by other M8 owners of slightly different electrically-related problems.

The rest were discussions and speculations about the possible causes of the reported problems, plus the usual wanderings that occur in a discussion forum.

The fact that five M8 users are reporting the same previously-undocumented set of symptoms is noteworthy, but I think a cautious observer at this stage would regard it as "statistically interesting" but no more. For example, all these users might have gotten batteries from the same bad batch, or might all live in an area that's having extreme weather, or they could all have gone to the same Leica user group meeting and come home cross-eyed drunk, or whatever.

When you read this type of thing, there's always the temptation to assume that the reporting group is a representative sample of the total population. But that's all it is -- an assumption.

We might be tempted to guess that the Leica forum includes, say, 50 M8 owners, so that if five of them -- 10 percent -- are reporting identical symptoms, the presumably 10 percent of the entire worldwide population of M8s, whatever that figure might be, is at risk for the same symptoms. But that's an unwarranted assumption: five occurrences is too small a number from which to generalize. It would be like saying that since 10 people live in my apartment building, and one of them is a concert violinist, then there must be thirty million concert violinists in the United States.

To put it another way, back when I was a newspaper reporter this kind of clustering might have inspired me to make a few more phone calls to see if there might be something interesting going on, but I wouldn't have asked the editor to hold the front page for it. Or as my statistics professor used to say, "Correlation isn't the same as cause and effect."

If I were an M8 owner I'd file it away in the back of my mind so that if my camera started behaving similarly I'd be aware that it was a "previously reported issue," but probably no more than that.

RML

01-21-2007, 02:18

Jager

01-21-2007, 06:00

As much as I would like to have an M8, the number of (supposed) issues that have come to light since its release are staggering. The R-D1's issues are known and mostly fixable. The M8's issues are... well... of a different order, some haven't been addressed yet, and some aren't even acknowledged (yet).

Anyone who has good experience with the M8 or the R-D1 (like I have) will say all those others are whiners (yes, all of you who constantly are nitpicking over their so-called faulty R-D1 all are whiners. Get a life and shoot :p ). Nevertheless, a prospective buyer, for whom the $5K might not be small change, will definitely think twice or more before parting with his money after reading all those (supposed) problems. No matter how the statistics run, people base a purchase on quite different motifs. One is emotion and not wanting to end up with a very expensive lemon. The M8 suffers from being perceived as just one such expensive lemon. As long as these (supposed) issues aren't addresses (but instead dismissed by people not able to place oneself in other people's buying shoes), the M8 will never be the success it could be.

As JLW notes in his post above, it's wise to keep some perspective regarding the perception of problems, vice the reality of their occurence. An interestng byproduct of internet communications (beyond the ease and swiftness with which people oftentimes get pissed at each other) is the sharp amplification of the perception of problems. This affects pretty much any product - check out an internet forum for whatever your favorite thing is and you'll almost certainly find it. It's natural for us to then want to draw conclusions from what seems surely to be a trend, but from a statistical basis that's almost always wrong. Usually grossly so.

Me thinks there's probably a good subject for a dissertation there...

The other thing... the M8 is a new, first-generation, fairly complex technical product. I'd suggest that anyone who didn't expect that there would be _some_ level of teething problems probably had undue expectations. I'm typing this on a second-generation MacBook Pro. The first-generation MBP had a whole range of minor-design and manufacturing-QC issues. And yet few would suggest that Apple doesn't know how to design and build computers. The Nikon D200 is an exceptional camera. Yet, when it was introduced a little over a year ago it promptly became evident that some number of the first-gen models exhibited worrisome banding issues. Nikon did a partial recall of those early models and quickly had to introduce a manufacturing change.

The reality is that as complexity scales it becomes more and more difficult to manage. I'm actually quite happy with Leica's response to the M8 issues. Especially for being the small, almost-boutique, company that it is, they have demonstrated a remarkable willingness to respond very quickly to problems. Enough so that I've put my money where my mouth is - ponying up the 5K for a new M8. Mine is a 2nd-gen (albeit, based upon its serial number, a refurbed 1st-gen unit) model and I went into that purchase knowing full well that being an early adopter means I'm at a higher level of risk of encountering problems than those who wait 12 or 24 months. What I get in return for that risk... is a remarkable photographic experience and sterling image quality - today.

Jeff

Sailor Ted

01-21-2007, 08:14

To say this camera is or should be perceived as "an expensive lemon" is reckless and ignores the facts:

1. Only a handful of reports- 5 (this could change however at this point it’s just too soon to call).
2. The M8 makes uncommon film like prints- far superior in many ways to Nikon and Canon.
3. The first Gen issues (real) were dealt with in a timely and professional manner by Leica.
4. The only other DRF option, the R-D1s, has serious issues with its ability to focus, and the company behind it, Epson, does not stand behind this camera.

If you want to shoot with a DRF you have two choices- Leica or Epson. If you wait you'll undoubtedly get a better camera as is the case with all products from proactive companies, they only improve the breed- that said the breed is world class today.

Lastly I am not implying that people who have legitimate issues are anything other then genuine and there problems real. What I am saying is that if someone with an M8 gets a cough 30 other photogs on the net dog pile in and suddenly the cough transforms to deathbeds pneumonia.

Gabriel M.A.

01-21-2007, 08:19

Are we working ourselves into yet another internet frenzy? - sorry count me out. I'm off taking photographs with my apparently fatally flawed M8...
I'm with ya, Jaap.

John Camp

01-21-2007, 08:29

One of the problems with this kind of discussion is that the M8's issues are simply piled up -- 'Oh, no, here's another' -- as if nothing else were happening. But something else is happening -- the problems are being fixed. As is not the case with some other major brands, where problems were simply denied or ignored, Leica is actually taking care of its customers.

There were three major issues with the first batch of cameras -- IR, banding, and the green-blob. To that was added the rainbow interference problem, and now the electrical malfunction, whatever the cause. Four of the five of these have been solved.

That leaves the new issue, which might mean a grounding change, or a fix to the battery contacts. Doesn't sound earth-shaking, whichever it is. I haven't seen it, and I've been working in cold weather in a quite dry, static-filled environment Minnesota, with no problems (although that doesn't mean that I won't have one, sooner or later.)

An additional point here: with the exception of the IR situation, none of these problems are common or much affect daily shooting. To get the banding or green blob, you had to shoot at high ISOs with a vastly over-exposed light source in the frame. Some people do like to shoot bright lights at night, and the banding shouldn't have happened, but most of the time, you actually had to force the problem. Same with the rainbow interference; it only happens under peculiar circumstances. For the vast majority of shooting, the problems never show up.

JC

barjohn

01-21-2007, 09:07

Like some others here, I have an R-D1 and have been giving serious consideration to an M8. Some of these threads are a little disturbing but as a former marketing exec I am simply amazed at the lack of Internet marketing savy companies like Leica and Epson display. In the world of marketing (it also applies to many other areas of life) perception is reality. Were I Leica, I would first have an engineer monitoring these forums and second showing genuine responsiveness and caring. If you want to see an example of what I mean go to the following thread: http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=threadt&frm_id=69 it is a forum for watch enthusiasts that collect or purchase high end watches. The thread is the Hublot thread. You will see numerous posts by JCBIVER the president of Hublot responding to customer perceived or real problems getting them expedited service and giving them special extended warranties. That level of service from a company that sells around 10K units per year (probably less than Leica). It certainly paints the picture of a company that cares about its customers and that is prepared to quickly resolve customer problems be they real or otherwise. Much of the thread is currently devoted to their new Big Bang watch that is a radical departure for the Swiss watch making industry in its use of exotic materials and new technology like ceramics, carbon fiber combined with Staineless steel, 18k gold, Platinum and other newer metals. This thread is an eaxmple of customer service: http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=2427640&rid=0

I would hope that someone from Leica reads these threads and gets the idea. I believe that Leica makes great lenses and that their former cameras are incredible but I am concerned about their transition to the world of digital electronics, the fact that they didn't just replace the cameras with problems in the intial batch, the time it is taking to create firmware release 1.10 and now the potential for another issue.

As a software engineer and head of R&D for a Navy lab, I have to say that I would put battery contacts at the bottom of likely causes, especially since some functionality with the LCD and menu system is operating (these require power). More liekly would be the ROM (Read Only Memory) that contains the software that runs the camera and processes the images being corrupted. Static electricity can damage a ROM or it may be a firmware bug that some combination of events causes to get executed and the camera gets hung in some state it cannot clear. Since a reflash of the ROM (when users were able to do this did not cure the problem) it may be failure of a component. It will be interesting to find out what it is. I would think that with Sean experiencing the problem they would have had him overnight the camera to their engineers to analyze and trouble shoot the issue. I hope that is the case.

John

Trius

01-21-2007, 14:04

2. The M8 makes uncommon film like prints- far superior in many ways to Nikon and Canon.

So does an M2/3/4/4-x/5/6/7 .... ya just don't have the LCD thingy. :D

jaapv

01-21-2007, 14:32

If some photgraphic deity existed that gave me a dollar for every professional digital camera from any company, be it Leica, Canon or whoever, that broke down I could buy at least three M8's a year with a full range of the most expensive lenses. Digital camera's are complicated machines that can and will fail from time to time -period. Relatively simple contraptions like Leica's M7's and Mp's break down sometimes, even straight out of the box. There is no professional photographer that will leave the house without at least two bodies, no serious amateur will contemplate undertaking an extended trip with just one camera. So what are we talking about???

Sailor Ted

01-21-2007, 15:06

So does an M2/3/4/4-x/5/6/7 .... ya just don't have the LCD thingy. :D

Yea or that auto develop, auto film for every light source, never need to scan and scan and scan thingy : )

Trius

01-21-2007, 16:16

I knew you were going to throw that in my face! Now how do you project those files on a cheap screen with a pretty cheap projector again?

Sailor Ted

01-21-2007, 16:31

Trius I don't really care to but if I want to I can do so in my home theater (but again I do not). I know you're not an M8 user but what you're basically observing is a difference between one medium vs. another; your observation is not inherent to the M8 so much as film vs. digital. If someone were to do this in a film forum regarding digital vs. film they'd be labeled a troll which of course you are not.

Trius

01-21-2007, 17:07

:D I would not abhor an M8 w/ Hex 28 and DR 50 that dropped in my lap.

Yeah, you're right ... it's a difference between media.

But in the mornings before coffee I definitely look like a troll.

jlw

01-21-2007, 18:08

An interestng byproduct of internet communications (beyond the ease and swiftness with which people oftentimes get pissed at each other) is the sharp amplification of the perception of problems. This affects pretty much any product - check out an internet forum for whatever your favorite thing is and you'll almost certainly find it. It's natural for us to then want to draw conclusions from what seems surely to be a trend, but from a statistical basis that's almost always wrong. Usually grossly so.

Me thinks there's probably a good subject for a dissertation there...

There's actually a whole field there already, sometimes called "psychoeconomics." You can read a good introduction in some of the later chapters of Peter Bernstein's lively and entertaining book Against the Gods - The Remarkable Story of Risk.

Among other things, he describes how two Israeli psychologists did a series of experiments to develop what they call Prospect Theory, a model of how predictable biases in perception lead people to evaluate probabilities incorrectly.

One that's particularly applicable in Internet fora is that people consistently tend to overestimate the probability of rare but dramatic events, while underestimating the probability of common but mundane events.

An example described in Bernstein's book was based on a survey of medical students asked to estimate what proportion of deaths were likely to be from natural vs. non-natural causes. Not only did the students overestimate the likelihood of non-natural deaths, but the more detailed the categories they were given (not just natural vs. non-natural, for example, but non-natural via car accidents, household accidents, violent crime, etc.) the more more they over-estimated the proportion of non-natural deaths.

A speculative photography-related example of this: People reading four or five highly-detailed, dramatic reports of a specific type of defect in the new Hypo-Digithetica D77 camera might estimate that a high percentage of D77s were going to fail because of this defect. Meanwhile, a long-term study of actual D77 failures might conclude that it was many times more likely for the camera to fail as a result of being dropped, or smashed, or licked by aardvarks, or whatever. But because these types of incidents were not reported in dramatic detail, people would be likely to underestimate their risks, while overestimating the risks of the dramatic failures that actually were less frequent.

ywenz

01-22-2007, 09:27

Sure is fun being an M8 owner! good luck sorting out all the issues with it...

How many M8s are actually out there? how many absurd failures are we seeing?

jaapv

01-22-2007, 10:11

About five thousand camera's and six of these failures reported......Sorry, you asked, but it does put this thread into perspective.

Sailor Ted

01-22-2007, 10:21

Sure is fun being an M8 owner! good luck sorting out all the issues with it...

How many M8s are actually out there? how many absurd failures are we seeing?

ywnez,
You're not usually the flamebate type- a little buyers remorse with that 5D? :p

Ted

PS. I'm putting mine up for sale- the pictures are God awful and the user interface is much like my M6 which is to say it sucks. Yes sir I'm selling it and my considerable lens stash for something wonderful, mass-produced, and with every electronic wiz bang they can think of because we all know that's the path to true photography :p

Ben Z

01-22-2007, 10:32

About five thousand camera's and six of these failures reported......Sorry, you asked, but it does put this thread into perspective.

Surely as a man of science you understand statistics better than that. Even if it were true that 5000 of them have been delivered to customers, the 8 full and 4 partial failures reported must be put in perspective to the number of owners active on the forum where the reports originated (LUF), not the total number of M8's in the world. I believe I counted approximately 35 M8 owners active on the Leica Customer forum. That's about a 1 in 4 failure rate. Of course if you want to you're welcome to believe that by coincidence all 8 of the only faulty M8's in the world are owned by one of the 35 owners on the LUF :D

ywenz

01-22-2007, 11:04

I rebooted my computer this morning after it locked (the PC not my Mac)- I guess in your mind this counts as a failure? Ben the champion of swap meet IQ strikes again!

Ted: No. The computer is not a failure.

A digital camera is a subsitute for a film camera. M8 is suppose to be a subsitute for a film M. If routine "reboots" of the M8 are required to sustain good working order, then the camera is a failure.

boilerdoc2

01-22-2007, 11:16

No expert here (amateur), but no problems of any sort with M8 (only one month tomorrow). Read M. Reichman's article at www.Luminouslandscape.com. Has a few nitpicks when he shot in Morocco (a dry country?), but no mention of static. It shoots awesome photographs folks! Great infrared camera with Hoya R72 as well.
A failure? Hell no! Birthing pains? Hell yes!
Steve

Sailor Ted

01-22-2007, 11:16

yawn,
As much as some people "need" to believe the M8 is a failure- ( a topic in and of itself), it is not. I am making some of the best digital images ever. This camera shoots like my M6 but has the inherent advantage of being digital with instant feed back so I can make changes in the field based on what I learn from shot to shot and this in turn is making me a better photographer because I’m learning at a much faster pace then when I shot on film. My M8 has had no such failures however a periodic re-boot would not even register to my way of thinking as a "failure". Sorry but this is an electronic tool that functions like an analogue one. To my way of thinking working with a DSLR is the inherent failure due to the fact it's not a format conducive to the way I like to shoot. Others styles vary and for some the DSLR is perfect- so be it.

At this point there are not throngs of people reporting failures and if these "assumed" failures were occurring in the frequency the muck rackers suggest we would be hearing about said failures or we will very soon. Until then this is idle speculation fueled more by people with a chip on their shoulder for the M8 then any actual M8 photographers- as per usual.