What would be the most nice fixed lens RF? [Archive]

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Robert Vote

01-07-2007, 02:33

hi!

Do you have any recommendations for buying a nice fixed lens rangefinder?
I had a look on the GSN/GTNs very nice... I like one with a fast lens or a good wideangle. What would be the best for a few bucks?

Thanks for your ideas!
Robert

hitmanh

01-07-2007, 02:48

350D_user

01-07-2007, 02:53

oldrangefinderguy

01-07-2007, 07:37

hi Robert,
I'm surprised more people haven't jumped on this question yet. I think you'll get a wide variety of suggestions, but it really comes down to defining your specific needs. There are an endless number of choices but the research is pleasant enough. First place to look would be the camera profiles at Cameraquest. Sorry, I don't have a link, but shouldn't be too hard to look up.

RML

01-07-2007, 07:48

The best rf is the one you actually use.

Try out a bunch (maybe during an rf meeting) and see which one works for you. The XA is nice but I found it too small for my hands. I got a Canonet 28 for very cheap (3 euro) and it's cute. I don't use it because I'm stuck to my R-D1 but the Canonet would be right for me.

lubitel

01-07-2007, 07:53

One very good camera and pretty easy to find in Germany is Revue 400 SE
with a 40mm/1.7 lens. should cost anything between 25 to 50 euros on ebay.

clarence

01-07-2007, 08:09

Canonet GIII QL17. It's easy to load, compact, has a bright finder, almost silent shutter, and you can set manual shutter and aperture settings.

Clarence

Steve Bellayr

01-07-2007, 08:59

Cameraquest discusses this issue. The Canonets come out very high. I have one. However, these are old cameras. The Caonets normally need a full CLA with the seals replaced and the battery upgraded from the 625 which is no longer available in USA. Runs about $100.

gb hill

01-07-2007, 09:15

Clarence has a QL17 for sale in the classifieds. He's from uk. You won't find a better fixed lens rangefinder period! It don't have the reputation of being "the poor mans Leica for nothing". ;) :D

DeeCee3

01-07-2007, 09:30

My suggestion is the often overlooked Konica AutoS-2. Its lens is scalpel-sharp and yields beautifully contrasty color. The old Konica slogan used to be "The lens alone is worth the price".

The RF seems to be on the money in every one I've used. It's about the same heft and size of an M and handles just about as well as one. When available, they usually are around USA$50

Good value for money.

dc3

mike_j

01-07-2007, 09:36

No specific recommendation but I suggest you look for one with (a) a good fast lens and (b) full control of aperture and, at least, proper indication of shutter speed if not direct control.

I love my Yashica GTN which I have been using for manyy years but I do still dislike the lake of direct shutter speed information. It's worth not being stuck on the rangefinder feature if the fixed lens is 40mm or less, zone focussing can be fine as in Rollei 35, Olympus XA2 etc

Minolta, Canon, Ricoh etc all produced excellent semi-automatic cameras and you would be hard pressed to tell the results of one from another on thebetter models.

climbing_vine

01-07-2007, 10:07

45mm isn't particularly wide-angle, but if it's good enough for you and you'd like to pay $5 or $10 instead of $50 and up for a lot of these other options, I'd recommend the Minolta Hi-matic 7s or 9. Both are 45mm, the 7s is f1.8 and the 9 is 1.7 and adds an "easyflash" system which is actually pretty nice if you ever use flash.

Edit to add: both of these have full metered manual, full auto, aperture-priority, and shutter-priority, which is one of the reasons I love them.

The 7sII has a wider lens and is a lot more expensive, but also good.

I find them to be a lot nicer in the hands than the Canonets and Yashicas, and have a cooler, more pleasing picture quality. To my eyes, Yashicas tend too much towards oversaturating on yellows and greens like a lot of lenses of that time. Canonets seem to blow out highlights pretty easily (for example, skies being pretty much all white).

Of course, it depends on the sample and these are just general impressions.

geoset

01-07-2007, 10:08

Retina IIIC or even a IIIc.

Bingley

01-07-2007, 10:37

I'll second the recommendation on the Konica Auto S2. Not only is the f1.8 45mm lens very sharp, the viewfinder is bright and the framelines adjust for paralax. The meter on mine is pretty reliable too. Also, the build quality of the camera is very solid. What is amazing is that these cameras can be had in near-mint condition for so little $$$. I got mine on the 'bay for under $30, including case and strap, and my impression is that they generally go for less than a Canonet in similar condition. Note that Stephen Gandy's otherwise excellent write-up on fixed-lens rangefinders on Cameraquest.com does not mention the S2 (there is a write-up on the S3). The only negative I see on this camera is its relatively large size (physical dimensions are a bit larger than a Canon 7), but that could be a plus for some folks. Overall, I think this camera is undervalued, and would make an excellent choice for a fixed-lens rangefinder.

My two cents.

Dougg

01-07-2007, 10:40

Is this question limited to 35mm choices, or would you consider 6x4.5cm? There is of course the compact folding Fuji GS645 with 75mm f/3.4, and the also light and compact non-folding Fuji GS645S with 60mm f/4 and the wide version with 45mm. Then there's the next more automated generation GA series which are not as small and light but the lenses do collapse for easier packing, choice of 60mm or wide 45mm f/4. Any of these can produce stunning results, and prices are moderate (though certainly not in the $100 range).

Flyfisher Tom

01-07-2007, 10:41

olympus 35SP

clintock

01-07-2007, 14:52

Konica Hexar, the AF one.. I know it's not a rangefinder, and it's expensive compared to thirty year old things, but oh it's so goooood..

Richard Black

01-07-2007, 15:00

Robert Vote

01-07-2007, 15:01

Flyfisher Tom

01-07-2007, 15:32

Robert,

You may or may not be aware of this site, but www.cameraquest.com has a lot of articles on the recommendations you've gotten so far. Might help with the technical comparisons. Look under the classic camera profiles.

FPjohn

01-07-2007, 15:36

Hello:

A good example of a Retina IIIC/IIIc or IIb is my personal choice but I expect that a new Olympus Stylus infinity/epic is the best practical option.

yours
Frank

ErnestoJL

01-07-2007, 15:43

My choice would be (is):
Manual only: Mamiya Super Deluxe 1.5
Full auto: Yashica E35 GTN
Manual+auto: Konica Auto S2

The Auto S2 has the advantage over other similar cameras like the Canonet, that even when not in AUTO, the meter is still connected and reading.

Ernesto

Gabriel M.A.

01-07-2007, 18:34

One that would be free and in excellent working order would be the most nice.

I would have to go with the folding MF rangefinders; the faster the glass, with coupled rangefinder. That would be the most nice. And free, or course ;)

jan normandale

01-07-2007, 19:03

Robert, I see from your profile you are a student.. is this camera going to be put to use for school or is this for your own enjoyment

Robert Vote

01-08-2007, 13:40

Actually it is for me. I am giving sometimes lectures for young students. It could be nice to show that there is no need to have the latest digital equipment in order to produce nice pictures. How would you rank the cameras mentioned in terms of picture/glass quality?

Thanks!
Robert

David Murphy

01-08-2007, 14:15

Most of the Japanese fixed rangefinder cameras with lenses faster than about F2 are pretty good -- they have to be. A 40-50mm lens faster than f2 is a serious piece of optical design and construction. These cameras may be inexpensive now, but in their time they commanded good money.

I own an old Beauty LM from about 1959 and it delivers really excellent images (Taiyo-do Optical Works). I like most of the Beauty's, but I know from experience that the Yashicas and Minoltas (e.g. 7s) are also very good. There are many to choose from.

01-08-2007, 14:16

hexar af, silent mode

no doubt

rogue_designer

01-08-2007, 14:18

rollei 35 (either tessar or sonnar) - great for wow factor - and fantastic images with 40mm lens.

on a budget - I love the Yashica Lynx 14(e), Lynx 5000, the Canonet QL17 (tho I am not a big fan of the metering process with it), or the Konica Auto S2 (which solves my metering issue with the canonet)

All have great lenses - some faster than others, but with a hood and good technique, hard to beat.

Kin Lau

01-08-2007, 14:33

Konica Auto S2.

Sharp glass and parallax corrected.

Just make sure you get one without a wobbly barrel.

Russ

01-08-2007, 16:20

My suggestion is the often overlooked Konica AutoS-2. Its lens is scalpel-sharp and yields beautifully contrasty color. The old Konica slogan used to be "The lens alone is worth the price".
dc3

Yes. And the Konica Auto S-2, shares the same lens as the Vivitar ES and Hi-Matic 7sII. The lens design was a collaboration between Minolta and Leitz.

Russ

Kat

01-08-2007, 17:24

Thanks for so many replies!

My needs are simple: good lens quality - working reliable meter - I want a good shooter - not too expensive max 60Eu. And it should be 35mm film format. I have already a medium format RF my heavy koni omega aka "The Rock"

Thanks!

Robert

Aside from camera quest's site, I also look here for reviews on many RFs, including the ones the others suggested, here:

http://mattdentonphoto.com/cameras/rangefinders.html
http://www.photoethnography.com/equipment.html

After reading them, I tried the Yashica GS/GSN, Minolta HiMatic 9, Konica C35, Olympus RC, Canonet QL17 GIII, Vivitar ES (My Konica S3 hasn't been tried out yet). All of them were great, none have disappointed me. I did let go of my first Yashica, because the size/weight really bothered me, but ended up grabbing another one when I got the chance.

You can just learn about the top choices and their features, maybe narrow them down to which one has what you need. But most of these are excellent performers, so in the end, I think you'd have to hold them in your hands and use them to be able to fully decide which one you like "best".

raid

01-08-2007, 18:53

I recommend a Konica S2 for its superb lens and manual exposure capability. The lens seems to be as sharp as a Planar lens. The Olympus XA is also a much smaller but equally good alternative.

Raid

nasmformyzombie

02-11-2007, 17:21

As others mention, there's quite a few choices. I'm partial to fast glass. With price as no consideration, I like the Yashica 35CC. Very nice, fast 35 f1.8 lens. It's compact and light and easy to handle. Will cost quite a bit more than most of the fixed lens RF's, a nice example can go for $150. I had a dead mint 35CC and didn't have the heart to use it, it was too nice. So I sold it. If you're on a budget (and are in pretty good shape) the Konica Auto S2. It's a beast, but very inexpensive (good working example goes for $20-$50) with a fast, sharp 45mm f1.8 Hexanon lens.

Doug

02-11-2007, 22:24

The originating post didn't specify 35mm, though placement implies it. I'm tempted to suggest there are some attractive choices of fixed-lens-RF cameras that use 120 and/or 220 film. Of course there are many in photography's history, including folding cameras. As to more recent gear, Fuji has been particularly productive that way with their GS645 and GA645 series, and the large 670 and 690 models. Check 'em out. :)

Silva Lining

02-12-2007, 00:19

I really like the Vivitar 35ES I have. It shares much of the Minolta 7s and other school. It is easy to use and is quite inexpensive. I carry it in a bag in my car most of the time. Photograpically it is quite nice.:)

I love the Canonets, but would second the support for the Vivitar 35 ES it has a fast lens (f1.7) a good accurate meter and is easy to hold.

a great little camera.

http://www.pbase.com/phillbrown/image/44562932/medium.jpg

Check out some results from it here (http://www.pbase.com/cameras/vivitar/35es) Mainly my shots :D

surlysimon

02-12-2007, 02:14

Minolta Hi Matic 7SII is undervalued and very good, full manual as well as some auto.

But that said all the recomendations made above are valid and worth considering

jkelly

02-12-2007, 05:36

I'll register another vote for the Konica Auto S2. It's the best free camera I've ever had. :) Very sharp lens, accurate metering, and the auto exposure is a nice feature for snapshot mode.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/177/388296236_0f4b84384e.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/164/388302755_be1b8c9fd3.jpg

scottgee1

02-12-2007, 06:57

Hmmm . . . I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the Olympus RC yet.

Oh, look, I just did! :D

Dr. Gandy's overview:

http://cameraquest.com/olyrc.htm

Happy hunting!/ScottGee1

richard_l

02-12-2007, 07:03

The Rollei 35 is probably the ultimate small, elegant all manual mechanical camera. It doesn't have a rangefinder, but small cameras with their short rangefinder base are not all that precise anyhow. Besides, you can make your own rangefinder (http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=003HEV) for free in a few minutes.

Richard

scottgee1

02-12-2007, 07:24

Richard, thanks for the reminder about the RF plans.

This makes it very easy:

http://www.tomchuk.com/rf_hfd/index.php

I'm not sure though if a working Rollei 35 fits the budget. :confused:

ScottGee1

richard_l

02-12-2007, 07:39

...I'm not sure though if a working Rollei 35 fits the budget. :confused:

ScottGee1The cheapest would be a Tessar (Rollei 35, 35 T or 35 TE). Those with black finish or a Sonnar lens are usually a little more expensive. I like my silver Rollei 35 (Tessar) as well as my black Rollei 35 S. KEH sometimes has a good price on a Tessar Rollei.

Richard

gatto

02-13-2007, 12:47

Definitely have to recommend the Olympus 35RC. Quality compact rangefinder, produces sharp results. Plus you can pick one up in very decent state easily for under £25.

John Robertson

02-14-2007, 12:09

Unless you go for one of the later cameras, (the XA series was a good suggestion!) you are probably going to run into battery compatability or dead selenium cell problems with a lot of the older cameras.
I would look at some of the Kodak/Zeiss/Voigtlander meterless cameras with R/Fs, and use a clip-on CV meter!

Jeremy Z

02-16-2007, 04:19

I'm surprised there aren't more recommendations for the Yashica Electro 35s.

Fast, sharp f/1.7 lens. Excellent build quality. Very low prices on ebay, probably especially so in Europe, where Japanese stuff isn't as highly-respected as German & Swiss stuff.

Alternately, the Yashica Lynx, which can be had with down to an f/1.4 lens. Those are getting VERY old though, around 50 years old, I think. But being fully mechanical can have its advantages. The f/1.4 lens surely has advantages.

For your demonstration purposes, the Electro 35 would be perfect. It looks old, clunky, and antique. It is inexpensive. Although many of these cameras people are recommending are very nice, many of them are also collectible. Collectible would be counter to the case you're trying to make for your students. Rollei 35s routinely go for $250. Canonets usually fetch around $100 for a decent example.

Also, IMO, if you're going with old technology, you may as well have the benefit of a fast lens. (i.e. faster than f/2.8) We already have enough challenges without having to worry about low light conditions.

To me, a manual rangefinder whose light meter only works in the auto mode is a real kick in the balls. I'm glad I read that before buying. (was ready to buy a Canonet GIII) It adds one more step that adds no value. It's a work-around to a poorly thought-out design. I'm shocked that respected & experienced marques would do that.

40oz

02-19-2007, 15:33

actually, the meter in the Canonet is quite handy, regardless of whether it works in manual mode. I just set it to auto, see what the meter says for the chosen shutter speed, and manully set the aperture and shutter to what I want to use. That's usually two or more steps faster shutter speed, and turn it to 1.7 - twist right one click from auto. But that's because I am often using it in extremely low light.

Otherwise, I use the shutter speed ring to set the aperture using auto mode. I mean, I could set the shutter speed, then the aperture, using a manual metering camera, but since aperture and shutter are linked to EI, I can let the auto system automatically adjust aperture as I change speeds. The meter in mine is quite accurate, and the camera functions quite fine manually, so there is really no loss of functionality. If I want to manually compensate for the scene, it is no more difficult than if I was using a handheld meter - read light meter, set camera. If the shutter and aperture were visible in the viewfinder, manual metering would be handy, but they aren't, so the lack of manual metering isn't a great loss.

IMHO, the true disappointments are those cameras that have no manual functionality. The feature I wish all these cameras had was higher ISO settings for the metering. It's a pain having a fast lens on a pocketable camera that you can't use with really fast films.

ChrisPlatt

02-19-2007, 16:12

Don't forget the Ricoh 500G, aka Sears 35|RF.
These twins offer lots of features at very low cost...

Chris

scottgee1

02-20-2007, 09:47

SNIP!
IMHO, the true disappointments are those cameras that have no manual functionality. The feature I wish all these cameras had was higher ISO settings for the metering. It's a pain having a fast lens on a pocketable camera that you can't use with really fast films.
Yeah, the limited high ISO speeds have turned out to be an economy that had little impact when the cameras were designed but make us available darkness shooters a bit crazy now.

Even back in the 60s SLRs offered ASA settings up to 6400 so the 800/1000 limit was probably based on the manufacturer's designation of fixed lens RFs as amateur cameras.

Ah well.

ScottGee1

Jeremy Z

02-20-2007, 12:18

Yeah, the limited high ISO speeds have turned out to be an economy that had little impact when the cameras were designed but make us available darkness shooters a bit crazy now.

Even back in the 60s SLRs offered ASA settings up to 6400 so the 800/1000 limit was probably based on the manufacturer's designation of fixed lens RFs as amateur cameras.

Scott, it may be that the meters just aren't sensitive enough to meter to low enough light levels for use with the higher ISO settings.

Remember, these were the point & shoot cameras of the day, and the meters frequently only went down to 7 EV. (SLRs commonly went down to 2, for example)

But it is a pain, I agree.

john_van_v

02-25-2007, 15:40

I have not bought a fixed lens yet, but these are the ones I think are the best buys.

But, be warned, they all seem to have the same mercury battery problem: the specified mercury batteries are illegal in the US. You can use a normal battery of the same size and deal with slight exposure problems, or use tinfoil to adapt a battery, or in the case of Yashicas buy a conversion kit online. Maybe there are other solutions, like pushing/pulling the development times.

The Konica S2, built great, has history as the camera of choice in Viet Nam. Downside, it is heavy.

Cannonet QL-III, was made until recent decades making it a baby among rangenfiders inceasing the chances it is in good condition. You will probably have to put foam in the back to seal it properly.

Olympus SP: has a great zukio 7 element lens, the best lens on a fixed lens RF. It also has spot and wide metering. This is probably the best of the RF fixed lenses, and usually goes for over 100$. It is a little on the large side.

Here is a good oly rf site: http://www.ph.utexas.edu/~yue/misc/rangfndr.html

Disclaimer: there may be typos in the above info, but it is generally accurate

John Robertson

02-27-2007, 15:38

There isn't a "best" one as such.
See what is available on evilbay or whereever you look.
Choose the best condition, availability of batteries, and look for a known quality lens(schneider,zeiss ,canon,nikon,or whatever)
Doesn't matter how "fashionable" a camera is, if it don't work reliably, it aint worth s***. Unless you just want to wear it, or put it on a shelf and admire it, or fondle it!!
If thats your bag , thats perfectly fine, then the choice is a lot wider!!

1dave

03-17-2007, 12:34

I have to vote for the Hexar AF. Best glass for the money around. Always a 'Solid performer' in every category, and there are a few available in the classified section here, from time to time.

NickTrop

03-17-2007, 13:15

Depends on what you want to spend, how big/small.

* Yashica GSN (GTN - black), probably the best value. Good ones can be found for $0 - $50. Aperture priority, great lens, fantastic almost spooky metering, very fast in operation, easy to find, no need to adjust voltage of battery or film speed, faster film speed rating (25-1000), parallax corrected rangefinder, shutter reportedly quieter even than the Leica, unique ability to meter and hold shutter open up to 30 seconds, good stepless Copal shutter, good (not great but solid and usable) rangefinder, and an outstanding 45mm/1.7 lens. It also seems to hold up better than most. Spend the extra $20 and get one that's been serviced and has had the POD replaced. (own)

Konica S2 - Large manual FLRF, I don't own this one but enough people brag about its lens to assume it must be very, very good. $30, $40, $50 ??? Depends on condition.

* Konica Auto S3. Just happened to fininsh a roll of Tri-X with this very camera today. Very small, with a renowned 38mm/1.8 lens that was rated as the best semi-wide ever tested by some photo mag when it came out. Reported 62-82 center resolution over all apertures, including wide open. It also has a cool fill-flash metering system. Shutter priority only, no manual override. Very quiet shutter. Perfect street shooter all in black. Diminutive, about the size of the palm of your hand. One of the last and perhaps the best of the fixed lens wonders from Japan. This one will cost you around $100. Somewhat rare.

* Lynx 14e. BIG camera. BUT it's 100% manual (meter, of course), and has the fastest lens ever slapped on a fixed lens - the seven element/5 group double gauss 1.4 Yashinon. It is a very good lens, usable at 1.4 but flare prone. Great low-light shooter.

Minolta 35 SP... Great lens, only JFLRF with spot metering.

Oly RD - small, well-made, manual control but expensive and hard to find.

Oly RC - slower 2.8 lens but folks seem to love this camera. Easy to find, not expensive.

Canon 17 QL III, another of the more popular fixed lens rangefinders. Manual override, well made, shutter priority.

* Yashica Electro CC - another great aperture priority model from Yashica. Much smaller than the GSN - Leica-like in black, with an infamous 35mm/1.8 lens that's hacked off the body and made into Leica M mounts in Japan for $500 US. Hampered by a max shutter speed of 1/250 and speed cap of 400 ASA. Still a great camera, a bit hard to find.

Pick one, but expect to send it out to be CLA'd or repaired. Trust me, it's money well spent. Try not to get "GAS" once you buy one of these. They become addictive and soon they will "multiply" like rabbits. While I like each of the ones I own, truthfully, they all take great pics, are pretty similar, and had I stuck with the my first GSN I would be quite satisfied.

* cameras I own

Madrigal

03-26-2007, 06:56

Just in case it matters, I also like the Konica Auto S2. In all fairness, it's my only reference in this category. I'm new to the RF scene, and now that I'm used to it, I find I reach for it quite often. My jaw dropped when I got the first set of prints back from it. Awesome lens. Has a built-in hood, too.

NickTrop

03-31-2007, 08:08