Putting your mark on a new camera.

[Stephanie Brim]

I'm going to buy a new rangefinder. And I mean a new rangefinder. Brand-spanking-new. Thinking back, this will be only my second brand new film camera ever. I never planned to buy another new camera. I like my used stuff and I find it better to give someone else's neglected gear a home where it will get good use, but with rangefinders I find myself changing my tune.

If this job goes well, I will be essentially almost running a photo lab and doing image correction and restoration. I'm actually hoping that it isn't just going to become another minilab. I want to get a reputation for being able to produce high quality prints regardless of whether I use traditional techniques or the newest digital technology. In other words, I'm going to have to work very hard. I want to reward myself for the hard work that I'll be doing over the next few months establishing a client base with this new camera.

Why new? There's one selfish reason: I want to be the only one to use this camera. I want it to have my marks on it and show how much only I used it. I want to have something of a family heirloom to give to my kids one day. I want my camera to look like Winograd's Leica when I'm done with it, and I want to know that it was only because I used it that much. My other cameras will get passed down as well, from the Agfa Billy to the Nikon FE, but this one will be special: the only camera I own that only I have owned.

So...

Has anyone else come to this point with the same thought? Even my point and shoots are all pre-owned. I even thought about finally getting my M3, but I don't really want that anymore. I see Winograd's Leica and I think, "I want to have something like that to treasure when I'm in my golden years." Is that strange?

[Nachkebia]

If I felt like that I would have made exhibitions :D I don`t know about you but for me I first need to take real photograph, at least one, to start thinking about my used camera`s in museums :D

[clintock]

Make sure it's made of brass and painted with lacquer. Titanium, zinc, magnesium, plated plastic and anodozed aluminum don't look so great when the edges tatter, not like painted brass anyway.
So that means MP3- isn't that the only camera available new on the planet with nitrocellulose over brass?

[BrianShaw]

So...

Has anyone else come to this point with the same thought?

Not since 1985. :)

[Stephanie Brim]

Maybe I should have said "brassing". ;)

Hrm. Maybe I should go with a new paint job on an old Leica instead? :D

[Nachkebia]

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32792

[Stephanie Brim]

The Ikon is my first choice, and I know it isn't brass. I meant brassing in the sense that the edges would wear. I suppose you'd call brassing on an Ikon "silvering"? :P

[johne]

Stephanie,

I always put my mark on every camera I own [never intentional!]
Johne

[MadMan2k]

Is it going to be the M8? Everyone says that digital cameras are going to be obsolete in 2 seconds and all that, and that they'll just dissolve into dust in 10 years, but there's plenty of old electronics that are still working fine, and they've only improved the technology... It would probably last to show to your grandkids or something, and it might seem as classic then as the first 35mm cameras do now.

[Stephanie Brim]

In my world, the marks on a camera mean that it's getting used. It isn't a flaw, but a badge of honor to have a camera that has its scratches, brassing, bumps, and other imperfections. This is why none of my cameras are in pristine condition...they've been used, both by their former owners and myself. Most of them lovingly, some of them hard (the Billy, which was then restored, or so it seems), and they're all great photograph makers. I think that for a camera to do its job to the fullest it must be used a few times. ;)

And no M8. If I spent $5000 on this venture it would be a black paint MP and black Summilux that I purchased. ;)

[arbib]

The Ikon is my first choice, and I know it isn't brass. I meant brassing in the sense that the edges would wear. I suppose you'd call brassing on an Ikon "silvering"? :P

I have thought about a NEW camera (not the Bessa R2 I just bought used). I have not bought a NEW camera since 1998, when I bought a NEW Fuji 2800, now sold long ago.

I too looked at the ZI at B&H tonight. $1,400.00 bucks. Not a big price today with some entry level Camera's starting just below that.

I don't want a Leica M, can't get passed the bottom load held over from the 1930's.

my last few camera's (Canon D60, Nikkormat FTn, Bessa R2) have been used, You never know what has happened bump/nick wise and if is has affected any mechanical function. It is a roll of the dice!.....

But a new camera......Everything is virgin territory. :D

[PlantedTao]

I totally know what you mean...all my equipment has been bought in like new or new condition...same with cars :)

My first bought camera (and most used) is the bessa R2...everything that has been done to it and put thru it has been by me...the more I use it the more it becomes an extension of myself and my photography has benefited from that.

So, if you do buy new, by what will last you and what you want, most likely a M in like new condition. I'm looking at the Ikon, m7 or MP, but it will be about a year or two before that occurs, until then the R2 will work.

cheers.
Jason

[MikeL]

Don't forget there are many used leicas out there with no marks and few rolls through them. They show up at my local camera shop all the time. I still kick myself for not purchasing a like-new 21mm asph that showed up for $1400. Darn!

[Socke]

There are more stories in the dings on my Rollei 35TE and Yashica FX-D, which I bought new, then in the pictures I took with them :)

[FrankS]

I can't afford to buy a new camera with the build quality of the vintage Leicas, Contaxes and Nikon RF cameras that I bought used.

[FrankS]

There are more stories in the dings on my Rollei 35TE and Yashica FX-D, which I bought new, then in the pictures I took with them :)

I really hope that that isn't true!

[Rich Silfver]

I can't afford to buy a new camera with the build quality of the vintage Leicas, Contaxes and Nikon RF cameras that I bought used.

What new camera, today, have a similar build quality? :)

[FrankS]

Leica MP is the only one I can think of.

[Rich Silfver]

Leica MP is the only one I can think of.

Ah yes, I would agree.

[clarence]

Sounds like camera hedonism to me.

Clarence

[emraphoto]

i bought a very "slightly' used m6 ttl and 35mm asph 'cron that still had the plastic cover on the base, unfilled warranty (passport) cards, completely un-marked pressure plate and hardly a fingerprint on it (i think it was one of those "how do you load film in this damn thing... oh forget it! i'm selling it!!!" leica's).
since then it's been halfway around the world, seen 100's of rolls of film, many rainstorms, snowstorms, windstorms, and customs agents. 50mm's, 35mm's, 75mm's... sf 20's, sb-24's... finders... and on, and on, and on.
it will never, never, never leave my hands. i will wear through the finish, leather and everything else.
sorry, what am i trying to say? yeah, i guess i FULLY understand.
john

[flipflop]

steph,
You posted that you are looking at a Ikon as your new camera, if you plan on keeping it FOREVER and passing it down in the family, why not buy something purely mechanical that will last...
Leica etc.

The Ikon finish quality is poor and it relies on a circuit board for more than just the meter...

Its your camera just sharing my opinion...

I am trying to decide digital slr vs leica m6

[Ossifan]

Hi Stephanie -

I COMPLETELY understand what you have written. I recommend either an MP or MP3. Black or Chrome will depend on what kind of person you are (I'm a dyed in the wool chrome person and when it came time to buy a companion for my chrome M6, I bought a chrome MP, even though I had thought I wanted the black one).

All the best,
Alex

[wlewisiii]

Hmm. Guess I feel the need to be a bit contrarian. We've discussed many of the surrounding issues here in the past. I think, in the end, that the distinction between a new camera and an old camera is false - what you need to concern yourself with is what you need to perform what you desire to do with the camera. (As I like to say about many things, what I want is rarely what I need... :bang: )

I have no interest in trying to prescribe a camera model to you, Stephanie, but would rather that you be certain that whatever camera you end up owning is the one able to do what you need it to do. That may very well be the Ikon. It may not, just as easily.

My most recent aquisiton is terribly impractical - a 2x3 Speed Graphic - but it enables me to do the kind of shooting I want to do when that need is not better served by, oh, the CL or the T90 or anything else I own.

In the end, virginity is over rated... :eek:

;)

William

[Ossifan]

I think what William says is true, too, but if you want a new camera (and there is, to my mind, a qualitative difference between owning new vs. used), then I suppose it is assumed that you would get one that coincides with your artistic purpose.

Cheers,
Alex

[RML]

Film or digital?

I'd go for a new Zeiss Ikon, really.

Or maybe an old, hardly used Nikon F-series. Those will brass well, have more lenses than you can shake a stick at, will last forever and will still turn heads. I'm not a Nikon guy myself but damn those F-series look good! And they've through many wars and are proven to be real work horses.

[FrankS]

Steph should buy your M2, Remy! I would if I didn't already have one.

[RML]

Steph should buy your M2, Remy! I would if I didn't already have one.

Steph, you can if you want. :) But there are plenty of scuffs on it already, so putting your own mark on it will be difficult. You'll leave an impression, though, with that Japanesque Gold cover on it. :p

[FrankS]

Analogy: I'd rather buy a used Mercedes than a new Neon.

[Ken Ford]

Have you considered a new Nikon S3 2000?

[Stephanie Brim]

How much do you want for your M2, Remy? I did think that the gold had lots of character. ;)

[Stephanie Brim]

Oh, and can you wait until April or so to sell it to me? :p

[back alley]

The Ikon finish quality is poor and it relies on a circuit board for more than just the meter...

colin, have you even held a zi in your hand?

[bobkonos]

First of all, welcome back; it seems I have not seen words from you in awhile. Second, congrats on what sounds like a good opportunity that I'm sure you'll grow with as a photographer. Third, I like your spirit and this plan of yours: one camera solely owned by you, new to you, used only by you. Have I ever had that thought? No, but for me it is not too late: my silver MP was bought new, as was my C/V R2S; either could/would be kept only by me in this life. I do not forsee selling either so they will continue to have my mark (s) on them. Good luck picking a camera, but please do not put too much pressure on yourself because it is "the last new camera" you will buy. Ultimately, the images and their ability to tell the world what you feel and see are the most important thing.

Yep, glad you are back.

[amateriat]

Steph: I suppose there's something to the "one owner" thing with regard to cameras (both of my Hexar RF bodies, and all three M-Hexanon lenses between them, were purchased new). Then again, I wouldn't pass up the chance to buy, say, a good-condition Leica M6 classic or TTL (something I hope to add to my setup in perhaps a year or so). The important part about the camera is how well, how effortlessly, you work with it...that's the only way I end up "bonding" with any particular camera. Whatever previous life it led with someone else has little bearing in terms of what happens when it's in my hands. The important "mark" to be made will be with the images made with the camera.

That being said, absolutely get the camera that you really, really want. I think that might be easier buying used (especially Leica, where's you can easily come across examples in literally like-new condition), but if absolutely-new is what your heart's telling you, and you get the bucks together, go for it. Your point of view.


- Barrett

[Stephanie Brim]

If Remy was selling his M2 and I had the money to buy it, there's no way I'd turn it down. Reasoning: I like the covering. I don't know if it's that I really do have his same taste in loud camera coverings or if it's just that it's so off the wall that it seems exactly me.

The next thing, of course, would be what lens to get. ;)

[shenkerian]

Hi Stephanie, I know exactly what you mean about putting your mark on a camera. I recently had the same impulse as you and agonized about it for a long time. I ended up walking off the deep end with my purchase, but I think you could have a very good time making a Zeiss Ikon your own.

On the other hand, a fully mechanical body like the M2 is great, and you're almost assured you'll be able to have it serviced for the rest of your life.

[Magus]

Post deleted by posters request

[jonasv]

I agree with Barrett. New may be nice, but ultimately it all comes down to how you and the camera 'bond' when shooting. I've used some cameras that were new or as good as new, or cameras that I know the stories of (my dad's, for example), but never really bonded with them nor felt the need to. Recently borrowed an M4-P one day for shooting some assignments (theatre and portrait) and my own cameras didn't even come out of the bag... The M4-P felt just right to me. Or, better yet; I didn't even feel it at all.

I bought it the day after, even though I previously thought rangefinders might have been nothing for me. I wouldn't say I bonded to it in an emotional way... More like a physical, photographical thing. I know this is one of these age-old rangefinder cliches but I have to admit it fits: it is the first camera that does not get between me and the subject.

Ultimately that's what it comes down to... Not the cosmetics, not the emotional bonding... Just the pictures.

[ferider]

This does sound like a discussion about pre-marrital sex, virginity, etc :D

Under the bottom line, all available M-mount cameras are good. The
difference is in the details. These details are subjective, and nothing
beats you hand-holding the camera before deciding to buy it.

It's also a question about availability vs. budget. Some stuff you can
only buy used (like an M2). In a world where a good M2 is cheaper
than a new Bessa R[32], I would pick the M2, but that's just me.

And as you have said before, S, the body is just the box attached to the
lenses; and you can spend MUCH more money on new lenses than
on the body, be it CV, Zeiss, Leitz or others.

Roland.

[dee]

I entirely agree with you Stephanie .
Most of my cameras have been new, in the box, which is just so fantastic , but all SLRs .Still have my SRT .
But I have also been tempted by rather questionable remade Russian Zorkis [ see icon ] just because it's like starting again ....acan't seem to find a new Leica IIIc !
but I have ASD stuff, so i am not rational !

[Stephanie Brim]

Eh, I feel like I'm going back on my good revelation. But anyway, I'm on my way back to work and won't be home until around 10:00 PM tonight. I'm still thinking about this, really, but I may also have to buy a new Mac because I don't know how this one is going to hold up to Photoshop CS3. Eh, we'll see.

[CJP6008]

You can scratch an Ikon - I have, not deliberately! This may sound a bit functional but it is just a tool at the end of the day - key criterion is functionality. Does it do what you want it to do and do you find it easy to use. If it gets a few dings along the way, well it will. If it ends up looking well worn and well loved that's a bonus. It occurs to me that the well worn, well loved look is only likely to come about from a camera you love having round your neck and whose results you love looking at. Otherwise it will be shiny, unloved and in a cupboard!

Best of luck with your quest for printing perfection. Would be worth finding the best colour and B&W hand printers in the US (who ever it is who prints for the really big names over there), getting them to print some negs for you (to exhibition standard) and seeing what you get. If nothing it gives you a benchmark.

[Stephanie Brim]

It isn't that I want to sell my work. I just want a camera that goes through the bumps and jostles along the way with only me. I probably won't sell any of my prints, ever...I don't have the negatives for most of the older things due to losing them when I moved and my newer stuff is going to be a lot of candid and other portraiture and Iowa landscape work that I don't know if anyone will even want to see. I wanted to do some nudes, but I don't know when I'll get those done. I want to do a stop motion movie-type thing, but I don't know when I'll get that done either. I'm realizing quickly that with this job there will be very little time for me to be doing anything apart from more job stuff. In fact, I'm thinking of getting a dark bag, bringing my chemicals, and doing my personal developing while at work so that I can get it done when I'm not doing anything else.

But anyway, my Nikon is going with me to the Stars game this weekend for some drunk photo action after the game. I've decided that I'm going to say screw work and actually go because I've been waiting for a month and after this week I'm going to deserve the break. So maybe you guys will see photos of me and my friends this weekend. :)

[amateriat]

Eh, I feel like I'm going back on my good revelation. But anyway, I'm on my way back to work and won't be home until around 10:00 PM tonight. I'm still thinking about this, really, but I may also have to buy a new Mac because I don't know how this one is going to hold up to Photoshop CS3. Eh, we'll see. Well, there you go...a new camera on one end of the workflow, a new Intel Mac on the other. The torture never stops...

BTW, looking forward to those pics of you and company. Just remember Rule One – no one opens a beer directly in front of the lens...! (unless there's a filter)


- Barrett

[RML]

Steph, I am selling it if you want it. It's still up in the classifieds here on RFF.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost-classifieds/showproduct.php?product=111&cat=500

[TEZillman]

Stephanie,

You've posed and interesting concept, but there is another side to putting your mark on a camera. Many owners of classic cameras consider themselves to be caretakers of a piece of history and are fancinated by the history of the individual camera.

I own a Leitz Minolta CL. I've wondered (in passing, I'm not obsessed) how the camera got here. It was only sold in Japan, so was the camera purchased by a tourist as a souvineer or did it come home with a serviceman or servicewoman who was posted in the far east? Did someone's camera die on them in Japan and they purchased it for the rest of their trip? Did it's original owner imigrate to the U.S.? Where has the thing been for the last 35 years?This little mystery adds to the fun of owning classic cameras.

I also purchased a brand new M7 kit about 3 years ago. I had partially the same motivation that you're talking about when I bought it. Leicas were the ultimate camera 30 years ago when I first got into photography, so there was also a bit of owning my "dream camera" involved in the purchase as well. I traded about 95 pieces of classic camera equipment for it and that covered about half of the purchase price, so I never really was that sentimentally attached to the classics that I owned and traded.

Every mark on the M7 was made by me and dispite being very careful, there are a couple very light scratches. I couldn't tell you when any of them happened. I think it will probably take another 10 years before I really feel sentimental about it. It's still just an object, even though it was and still is my "dream" camera.

It's very difficult today to find anything that will become an heirloom, especially in the realm of technological items or tools. Things are changing far too fast. The ultimate digital cameras for sale 3 years ago are out of date today. I don't doubt that by the time I've had the M7 for 20 years, film, if it's available at all, will be too expensive to be an economically viable way to make many photographs. I guess from my perspective, if and when it comes to that, I will have had the chance to use an truely excellent camera and set of lenses and will have, hopefully, made many more memorable photographs with it.

[Stephanie Brim]

Steph, I am selling it if you want it. It's still up in the classifieds here on RFF.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost-classifieds/showproduct.php?product=111&cat=500

I have a feeling it'll be gone before I can get to it...though perhaps people won't like it because of the gold. I think it adds character. Loud, obnoxious character, but character nonetheless. :D

[Stephanie Brim]

However, I'm noting that Stephen at Cameraquest seems to have olive R2s...the very camera I stumbled into this forum to learn about. ;)