I'm Selling Out

[endustry]

Blaargghhhh...

I've decided to do it...I'm selling my two MPs and buying an M8. I know, I know! It's a long story but I've decided I'm no Cartier-Bresson and I just get better results being able to bracket and then revise using an LCD. That and I have an M7, too.

I have no idea what to price my MPs at. Anyone care to help me figure out a fair selling price?

#1. Chrome 85x mag finder. No marks anywhere. Maybe 20 rolls through it. Includes rewind crank and Luigi half-case. Boxed.

#2. Chrome 72x mag finder. No makrs anywhere. Maybe 40 rolls through it. Also includes a rewind crank and Luigi half-case. Boxed.

[Nachkebia]

I might be interested in your chrome 0.72 MP :D

[peter_n]

Check the asking prices on photo.net and the "completed" list on eBay. That will give you a sense of what to ask.

[FrankS]

Also, look up the selling new prices, and figure on a certain % reduction from that. With new cars it's almost 50%, with Leicas it would be less, maybe 15-20%?

[Al Patterson]

You can also see what KEH is selling them for on their web site. Or check the ads in Shutterbug. I have seen M7's listed for $2200 to $2300 recently, but haven't seen an MP for sale lately.

[endustry]

M7s seem to be appearing used at three times the rate of MPs (at least in my experience.) I will probably list the .85 for $2400 and the .72 for $2300 considering condition + the included accesories. Thanks for the feedback.

[5nap5hot]

Why can't you bracket with film? I do it all the time.

[endustry]

1. It's more expensive and 2. I like to revise on the spot after reviewing my shots on the LCD.

[LeicaM3]

M7s seem to be appearing used at three times the rate of MPs (at least in my experience.) I will probably list the .85 for $2400 and the .72 for $2300 considering condition + the included accesories. Thanks for the feedback.

Those are very fair prices and you should not have a problem selling them for that amount.
M7s are much easier to get and sell for 300-400$ less in mint condition.

Good Luck. I hope you won't regret it.


Andreas

[Leicabug]

While M7 prices have droped somewhat(below $2000 in many cases), MP prices have remained above $2000.

[Flyfisher Tom]

$2000 to $2300 depending on condition

[back alley]

this is not a knock but i am shaking my head wondering...you have 2 mp's and an m7 and you worry about the cost of film?

[peter_n]

M7s seem to be appearing used at three times the rate of MPs (at least in my experience.)I think that is because they are trading in an electronic camera for a "better" electronic camera. MP owners seem more firmly wedded to film. I think you'll find the price of the M7 trending back upward in a while. Now is the time to buy a used M7 without question.

[Pablito]

This is neither here nor there but if it was me, I'd be keeping one of the MP's not the M7...

[FrankS]

Yep, an MP is forever (or at least several lifetimes).

[endustry]

this is not a knock but i am shaking my head wondering...you have 2 mp's and an m7 and you worry about the cost of film?

My wife and I are also planning on having a kid this year (if posssible) and so the idea of less film costs going forward combined with being able to take a million baby pics digitally is a big part of my decision-making process.

[endustry]

This is neither here nor there but if it was me, I'd be keeping one of the MP's not the M7...

I'd also thought of this but I've come to the realization that I'm realy an aperture priority guy. I also would like to get near the value of an M8 for selling two bodies and I'd come up short if I sold an MP + the M7.

[Spyderman]

being able to take a million baby pics digitally

Then why not sell just one MP, buy your wife a DSLR with a nice zoom any keep your other MP and M7?

But after all it's your decision... I was just thinking aloud...

[endustry]

Because I'm a snob.

[RObert Budding]

My wife and I are also planning on having a kid this year (if possible) and so the idea of less film costs going forward combined with being able to take a million baby pics digitally is a big part of my decision-making process.

Then why not a nice AF DSLR? You could even get a FF Canon 5D and a few lenses for less than an M8. That has some snob appeal.

The little tykes are difficult to focus on once they start to run. And you'll never be able to shoot long telephotos on an M8. And you will need telephotos when the kids play soccer and such.

[edodo]

I understand that film can be expensive when shooting a 30€ lens, but with a 3 grands MP I don't see why it is expensive just my view :)/

I would keep those MPs, maybe sell one and get a dslr for shooting kids and landscape with teles.

[endustry]

I understand that film can be expensive when shooting a 30€ lens, but with a 3 grands MP I don't see why it is expensive just my view :)/

When did this place turn into Photo.net?

[merciful]

You're getting off pretty light compared to pnet.

When did this place turn into Photo.net?

[endustry]

What am I getting off for exactly?

[Nachkebia]

it turned to pnet just after it was turned to dpreview :D

[Time Freeze]

My wife and I are also planning on having a kid this year (if posssible) and so the idea of less film costs going forward combined with being able to take a million baby pics digitally is a big part of my decision-making process.

I raised 4 kids. Believe me, film is the least of your worries as far as expenses are concerned.

[Nachkebia]

ah well, at least we are dpreview with snobs :D

[merciful]

I'm confident that you'd get a real jumping-on at pnet if you implied film costs were a concern when you've laid out for three modern M bodies. I don't care what you shoot or sell (or don't): but suggesting that the mild comments you're receiving here equate to a pnet reception is excessive.

What am I getting off for exactly?

[endustry]

I only brought up the cost of film when someone snarked off about why I couldn't just bracket with film and I responded by saying that one reason I wanted an M8 was that it was less expensive to bracket so much with a digital and, not to mention, with one on the way, less costs going forward would be nice. I didn't suggest I couldn't afford film costs, I was merely replying to a troll (something I obvioulsy regret.)

Now there's this incessant trickle of passive-aggressive comments about why a guy with two MPs and an M7 (all purchased used, btw) should worry about the cost of film. In the M8 forum, half of what I read is that the only people who complain about that camera are people who supposedly can't afford one. In short, I don't geek out on this forum to entertain certain individuals and their petty, ignorant class frustrations.

Thanks to those who replied ot my original post in good faith.

[Nachkebia]

O key, I feel what you mean but here is another point, if you want to be snob you have to do snobbish stuff, you want to bracket but you don`t want to spend? you want to snap bracket on digital but you don`t want DSLR? you are not a snob, you just need a book about exposition :D (don`t take this seriously)

[Nick R.]

I raised 4 kids. Believe me, film is the least of your worries as far as expenses are concerned.

Ain't that the truth!

Seriously, though. Isn't funny how people are always willing to spend other people's money. Sell the Leicas and buy an E-330. To me, it's the most Leica-like of the DSLR's. If you'd like, come buy my job and I'll show you mine.

[back alley]

I only brought up the cost of film when someone snarked off about why I couldn't just bracket with film and I responded by saying that one reason I wanted an M8 was that it was less expensive to bracket so much with a digital and, not to mention, with one on the way, less costs going forward would be nice. I didn't suggest I couldn't afford film costs, I was merely replying to a troll (something I obvioulsy regret.)

Now there's this incessant trickle of passive-aggressive comments about why a guy with two MPs and an M7 (all purchased used, btw) should worry about the cost of film. In the M8 forum, half of what I read is that the only people who complain about that camera are people who supposedly can't afford one. In short, I don't geek out on this forum to entertain certain individuals and their petty, ignorant class frustrations.

Thanks to those who replied ot my original post in good faith.

aaron,
just to be clear, my original comment was sincere.
i have read from others here also about the cost of film on occasion and still others that shoot expired film or the cheapest film they can buy and it always gives me a bit of a start when i see they are shooting with gear that costs a small fortune.
as to your question, it's a decision that only you can make and you did ask us for comments.
my only concern about buying a 'good' digital camera of any style is that they seem to lose value faster than cars driven off the lot. if this happens to the m8 is still an unknown and i will not venture a guess.

anyway, i don't think we have quite yet sunk to the level that p.net can achieve when they put their mind to it.

good luck with the baby making.

joe

[Magus]

Post deleted by posters request

[peter_n]

[snip] i have read from others here also about the cost of film on occasion and still others that shoot expired film or the cheapest film they can buy and it always gives me a bit of a start when i see they are shooting with gear that costs a small fortune.I'm one of those I think. I'm lucky enough to have two M7s and some nice lenses and yet I still scratch around looking for cheap film. I bulk load in part because I like it but mainly to reduce the cost. OTOH I try to get everything at the lowest possible price, including my equipment. I have waited for months for a particular price-point to acquire some of my stuff. So maybe its not as inconsistent as it looks - its more a a case of being cheap with everything... ;)

[back alley]

to be clear peter, i never called anyone cheap ;)

i look for a good price price also when i buy but i wouldn't buy a film that i didn't like just because the price was low. i think you are saying the same thing.

[endustry]

I've listed my MPs in the classifieds, btw.

$2400 for the .85x and $2100 for the .72x.

[Gid]

I've listed my MPs in the classifieds, btw.

$2400 for the .85x and $2100 for the .72x.

Good luck with the sale. Good prices for very, very good cameras. I sincerely hope you enjoy the M8 and continue to enjoy the M7.

[KM-25]

1. It's more expensive and 2. I like to revise on the spot after reviewing my shots on the LCD.

Three times while out shooting Kodachrome yesterday, I took a guess at the exposure. Once in a Starbucks with overcast light, once outside, same light. Then once with two children in a food court stuffing their faces with pizza.


I checked them all with my handheld meter. On one exposure, I was under a third. the rest I was dead on.

Some got it, some don't.

Enjoy your M8.

[peter_n]

to be clear peter, i never called anyone cheap ;)

i look for a good price price also when i buy but i wouldn't buy a film that i didn't like just because the price was low. i think you are saying the same thing.True enough. I only buy the film I really want, but I try to buy it in bulk. Unless I get it for free of course, like the Kodak Portra... ;)

[nitrox1]

Good luck with your sale endustry. I too will be getting an M8 later in the year. I am going to hold onto my M film bodies though. (M7 & MP).

Congrats also on the arrival of your child. I've never taken so many photos as I have once our daughter was born. A digital comes in real handy photographing your kids. Instant results that can be emailed to all the relatives that day. I love M photography, and I can't wait to go digital M.

Take care and congrats,
John

[endustry]

Thanks, Nitrox...

I am already the vicarious family photog for a few friends of ours so I'll be well-practiced. Others are right that I will eventually need to get something a little snappier than a MF rangefinder for capturing the kid but for the time being my wife believes that an M8 will be good for taking kid pics with and I need any bit of leverge I can get in convincing her that dad-to-be desrves a new toy (even *if* I'm selling my old ones.)

Me: "Ugghhh. I'm no HCB. I think I'd be more productive using a digital camera. I think I'll sell my two film bodies and buy one."

Her: "Or you could just sell your film cmeras and we could use the money for baby supplies."

Me (to myself): "F**k. How did I back myself into this one?"

Her: "Well...?"

Me: "Well, the digital would actually be better for taking pics of the kid. You know how you always comment about how bland other people's kid pics are? Well, with an M8, ours will look better."

Her: "Well, that's BS, but I guess if it's that important to you, whatever. BUT YOU'RE DEFINITELY SELLING THOSE TWO OTHER CAMERAS FIRST!!!"

Me: "Okay."

[nitrox1]

I understand completely! You know, I've had great success shooting my kid with my film M. It's not as fast as a dslr obviously because of auto focus vs. manual, but it works for me. The results are well worth the trouble.

Your biggest roadblock now is going to be finding an M8. I've been looking but haven't seen any available. Once they start getting some more stock in, I've got a few custom knives I'm going to sell to fund my M8. I'm really looking forward to it as I'm sure you are too.

I originally got into Leica M by selling off all my older Nikon slr gear, and am so glad I did.

I'm also in agreement with you on which film M to keep. If I could only have one M and had to get rid of the other, I'd keep the M7 and sell my MP. I love my MP, but
for me, the M7 is an easier camera to use due to AE.

Take care and cograts again,
John

[Alex Krasotkin]

Perhaps you are right, this is why I keep my unexpensive Konica Hexar AF with its great 35/2 lens. I can operate with it much faster then any other camera with all rangefinder advantages.

[jaapv]

Just packed box full of redundant stuff,Digilux2, M6TTL, Mamiya 645, some Canon lenses and odds and ends to send off to the shop to sell. A farewell to film ( and my trusty Digilux) :( .I'll only shoot a roll for nostalgia from time to time from now on....Now I need to figure out what to do with the film in my freezer. Maybe I'll donate it somewhere.

[ChrisN]

Three times while out shooting Kodachrome yesterday, I took a guess at the exposure. Once in a Starbucks with overcast light, once outside, same light. Then once with two children in a food court stuffing their faces with pizza.

I checked them all with my handheld meter. On one exposure, I was under a third. the rest I was dead on.

Some got it, some don't. ...

Yep, some of us don't have that skill, and we'd be fools not to acknowledge it, and work with the obvious solution. Especially when it's really not an issue, is it. A person's photos are no less good for the fact he/she might have used an electro-mechanical device to determine the correct exposure rather than his/her own calibrated eyeball.



I can understand the concern about the cost of film, even for a person with thousands of dollars invested in cameras and lenses. The hardware is a capital investment, on the books as an asset, and there is the expectation that a goodly portion of the capital outlay can be recouped at need (especially if you buy used equipment).

By contrast, film and chemicals are consumable items, immediately written off the books as an expense, with no asset value. People who shoot a lot of film are committing a considerable amount of disposable income to that purpose. Bravo - but not all can make that commitment, even after a large capital investment in the camera. I can well remember my low-income days; I went into debt to buy my first decent camera (an Olympus SLR), then film and processing had to compete with my desire to eat!

Of course, taking the digital route we're trading off the above situation against the rapid depreciation of digital gear and the low value (relative to purchase price) after a few years. Instead of spending the money on film, with digital I'm spending it on depreciation, watching the value of my asset diminish. Add the temptation to follow the marketing/upgrade fashions, and I'm not sure that digital is that much cheaper! But - I'm having fun, and that's what it is all about, isn't it!

[endustry]

I love AE. I suppose if I had learned to shoot with a fully manual camera, I'd prefer a manual camera. I learned on an SLR with AE, though, and although I can shoot manually, I live in NYC and do a lot of my shooting on the street where every little bit of assistance helps. Just today I grabbed a couple of (hopefully) great candids on the subway with the M7 that I simply do not possess the skill to have gotten with a mechanical camera. Really. I envy the Coolhand Lukes on this board but I'll probably never have the time to invest in becomming one myself.

As for gear depreciation, I think it's possible to get near a level of quality with digital cameras where, breakdowns aside, one could possess a camera good enough to fend off the endless upgrade loop. I have access to a Canon 5D and have spent a lot of time playing with it and, although I am no professional, I cannot find much wrong with that camera. I'm sure it's always possible to make improvements on a design but for the semi-pro/enthusiast DSLR market, I really think Canon came close to the mark for a fullframe model. Canon is supposed to unveil an update to the 5D this spring (per the schedule of their 18-month product cycle) and I don't know a single 5D owner who has shown the least bit of curiosity.

[ChrisN]

I love AE.

Me too! :)

As for gear depreciation, I think it's possible to get near a level of quality with digital cameras where, breakdowns aside, one could possess a camera good enough to fend off the endless upgrade loop.

Agreed! I think I'm pretty much at the same point now, with my recently-acquired Pentax K10D. The body has all the features I want, and the shutter is designed for 100,000 exposures, which should keep me going for a while barring accidents. And I think my lens-lust is starting to slow down too!

[Turtle]

this is not a knock but i am shaking my head wondering...you have 2 mp's and an m7 and you worry about the cost of film?




I agree on the economics $10,000 of film body and then worrying about $3 rolls of film . The bodies have only had $180 film thru them...thats one luigi case worth!

I suspect that in reality this is a case of GAS hitting a financial brick wall (I've been there :( ). I would suspect that reviewing your images will lead to to worse imagery not better. Might sound nuts, but I find more time fiddling with gizmos spoils my abilty to see good images. Practice makes the capture of them a formality. Twiddly buttons etc just stops me getting into the right frame of mind which most definitely should not be a 'camera' frame of mind. Why dont you sell one film body and set the cash aside for film and chemicals? Buying film in bulk really helps one to use it as you do not keep shelling out each time you buy. Psychologically you are not therefore paying for it as it has been on your shelf for months.

The real issue is though is quitting film and so not being allowed into the upmarket lounges in photo heaven. :eek:

I am no CB or Salgado either. If you do sell, I would agree that $2200-2300 is right for a mint 0.72 MP. M7s hover about $2K. DDOoooooooonnntttttt do it!!!!!!!

Tom

[Hephaestus]

Aaron,

I think you made wise decisions in regard to your gear- AE can be a lifesaver, and your M7 represents less money tied up in a camera than your MP’s.

Digital will be great for documenting your boy or girl- I shoot my little niece with a D-60, and on a Christmas morning it’s not uncommon for me to fill up a 1GB card. The percentage of keepers may be low, but at that volume I get many more solid shots than I would have with film (call me cheap as well, but I’m stingy with film). Some of the members here might disagree, but I think there is an element of ‘spray and prey’ when photographic active children- and for that, digital is king.

However, I beg you to commit plenty of old-fashioned film to your future son or daughter as well. Last night, I was leafing through some photos I took in Ireland a few years ago, and to have a whole role worth of 4X6’s in your hands can be more meaningful than one might imagine. Images that I would have likely culled on digital, and certainly never printed, appreciate unexpectedly in value over the years. A technically strong photograph is easy to praise, but sometimes it’s a meagre snapshot that you end up valuing more. For me, that is the unshakable value of film.

Regards,
Ryan (who has been pestering you, back-channel, all day…)

[endustry]

This is the only shot I ever got of my friends' kid using the MP and we had to beg him to stand still for the one second it was taken in...

[endustry]

BTW, I've moved my .72 MP to Ebay. I had too many people trying to make weird deals with me here and decided that the only way to just SELL the camera seemed to be by moving it to Ebay. (By weird deals I'm not speaking about you, Ryan.)

At any rate, if anyone is still interested, I have it at a Buy it Now price of $2100 on Ebay. I didn't list it on there with the Luigi case but I'll still throw it in if anyone from RFF buys it.

Ebay# 130069170290