"CTAP-6 (Star-6)" Wide Angle lens- Caveat Emptor

[ZorkiKat]

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-FED-5-Russian-camera-with-Orion-analogue-Box-Manual_W0QQitemZ300050004136QQihZ020QQcategoryZ152 34QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Another ingenious adaptation. Makes FED-5 sell higher too :)

The 28mm wide angle is described by the seller as a substitute for the
Orion 28mm. Looking at his 'orion-analogue', it's obvious that the lens came from a Chajka-3 half-frame camera. There looks to be some crude attempt to mask this - the "Star-6" (CTAP-6)ID has erasures on either side: take out the letters И, Н, Д, У (=I, N, D, U) and the number 9 from "ИНДУСТАР-69" (=Industar-69) and you get a new lens named "Star-6".

An auction page for a Chajka-2 shows the same lens, intact:

http://cgi.ebay.com/733-Russian-half-frame-camera-Chaika-3_W0QQitemZ280018298840QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15234QQr dZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

AFAIK, later Chajka camera models allowed lens removal so these can be used on an enlarger to facilitate printing of 18 X 24mm "half-frame" negatives. Thus they would have LTM 39 threads- and this would make them fit on any LTM camera as well. Since I haven't seen an I-69 live, I would not know if their focal registers would conform to the standard LTM working distance. Perhaps some adaptation can be made to adjust the focal register, and perhaps the originator of the "Star-6" has done this indeed. But the I-69 was made to cover a smaller format than 24 X 36mm and would likely vignette. The 'sample photo' from the auction in question shows this.

I think I'm having a GAS now for a Chajka-2 to see if I could adapt its lens for a certain filmless RF camera with an APS-sized picture formats :p

Jay

[reagan]

Hey Jay ~ yeah, I've seen that before, same gimmick. But like you, I believe there should be other uses for the little 28mm Industar. Let us know if you try something.

[fgianni]

Yes please, if you try to do it keep us informed of your progress, a very small 28mm would be nice to add to my collection, the ultron is too big so I never carry it around, and the R-D1 is half frame anyway.

[ZorkiKat]

In the interests of research, I will be ordering a 'parts' Chajka later....a valid excuse for GAS! :D

[reagan]

In the interests of research, I will be ordering a 'parts' Chajka later....a valid excuse for GAS! :DNot wanting any man to be sailing these dangerous, GAScious waters alone, I too have made the sacrifice of ordering a Chajka a while back. O good Postman, where art thou?

[John Robertson]

I have the camera Tschaika and the lens you refer to, It does not work on the Fed or any other LTM camera, the back focus is different, (ie shorter) and it is computed to cover only the 18x24 frame. The only reason it is removable is for use as a somewhat inconvenient enlarger lens. Strangely the camera instructions "forbids" its removal. Conversely Fed etc lenses don't work on the Tschaika either.

[ZorkiKat]

Not wanting any man to be sailing these dangerous, GAScious waters alone, I too have made the sacrifice of ordering a Chajka a while back. O good Postman, where art thou?


Reagan

Make sure you got the 2nd or 3rd models- the first Chajka has a fixed lens.

I have the camera Tschaika and the lens you refer to, It does not work on the Fed or any other LTM camera, the back focus is different, (ie shorter) and it is computed to cover only the 18x24 frame. The only reason it is removable is for use as a somewhat inconvenient enlarger lens. Strangely the camera instructions "forbids" its removal. Conversely Fed etc lenses don't work on the Tschaika either.

John

That's the point of the experiment- reworking the Chajka lens to achieve a 28,8mm register. Lens removal is "forbidden" (not only in the case of the Chajka, but the early FED-1 manuals as well) to prevent damage to the mechanisms which the lens conceals. :)

[reagan]

Make sure you got the 2nd or 3rd models- the first Chajka has a fixed lens.Hey Jay - yep, it's a Chajka.II. Looks to be in decent shape overall. Thanks John. Yeah, we've knocked around the unfortunate reality that the half-frame Industars are a no-go on other LTMs. But for a few dollars, I thought it would be fun to give it a go for awhile as a pocket camera. (Like I don't have any cameras to carry around already. :rolleyes: )

[John Robertson]

Ok Reagan, but I can't see the point reworking it when it does'nt cover the full 24x36 frame, and the Orion 15 does! The Tschaika lens also takes the near impossible to find filter size of 17mm.

[ZorkiKat]

Ok Reagan, but I can't see the point reworking it when it does'nt cover the full 24x36 frame, and the Orion 15 does! The Tschaika lens also takes the near impossible to find filter size of 17mm.

And John, I was thinking of putting the Chajka lens on a digital RF whose sensor size is 23,7 X 15,6 mm, which is way within the 18 X 24 mm format it was originally designed for.

The Chajka's Industar will not cover the 24 X 36 frame properly and will definitely vignette at the edges. But being much much cheaper then the Orion
(and more plentiful too), plus the promise of pictorial effects, make the Industar 69 experiment worth doing.

Filters shouldn't be much of an issue. "Impossible to find" accessories plague other FSU gear too :)

Jay

[reagan]

Ok Reagan, but I can't see the point...Sorry you're having a hard time getting your mind around this. I guess the point is ....... for the FUN.OF.IT. Yes, I know an Orion works. I have an Orion, it's great, I ENJOY it too on all my Zorkis/Leicas. So no, I don't need another 28mm lens. But I'll also enjoy getting, using and playing with a Chajka. Like I said, "... I thought it would be fun to give it a go for awhile as a pocket camera."

I don't know that I'll be "reworking" anything on it. I really just want to shoot it. But if I do decide to experiment, cobble something together, (or hammer it apart :eek: ) whatever transpires, I'm sure it will probably be for the fun of it, for the challenge, for the shear enjoyment of playing with cameras... and stuff.

Some time ago, one rainy afternoon, I totally butchered the lens and front casing off a $14 Vivitar digicam, then one at a time, TAPED, literally TAPED a Jupiter.8, Industar.22 and the Orion onto the front of it and took some shots. See my post here (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30624&highlight=fsu+digital) with pics. :o Why? For the fun of it. And that's the point.

[John Robertson]

And John, I was thinking of putting the Chajka lens on a digital RF whose sensor size is 23,7 X 15,6 mm, which is way within the 18 X 24 mm format it was originally designed for.

The Chajka's Industar will not cover the 24 X 36 frame properly and will definitely vignette at the edges. But being much much cheaper then the Orion
(and more plentiful too), plus the promise of pictorial effects, make the Industar 69 experiment worth doing.

Filters shouldn't be much of an issue. "Impossible to find" accessories plague other FSU gear too :)

Jay

Fair Doos, that should work fine!!:cool:

[reagan]

Too bad I don't read Japanese. I'm curious about what THIS GUY (http://kochi-med.net/moto/camera/camera_repair/chaika2/index.htm) was doing and how it worked. Obviously some type of repair. But, he tried his "CTAP.6" on a Bessa.R.

edit: ... Same guy (I think) .. Not so awful results HERE (http://www.kochi-med.net/moto/camera/camera_repair/chaika2/sample/tchaika_bw20010802/h05.html) from the I.69 and Chaika.II.

[rbiemer]

Reagan,
Thought I could post the translated page but I can't seem to get that to work.:(
But, here is the alta vista site:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/ (http://babelfish.altavista.com/)
The translations are surreal but mostly workable.
Rob

[reagan]

The translations are surreal but mostly workable.
Thanks Rob. Yeah, I tried that too and got dizzy... ;) :eek:

[erikhaugsby]

The babelfish link works (and fairly well at that), but you need to enter the website address to view the translation.
My favorite line is from picture 4: When the hook for hanging the minus thread which is underneath the film advance lever is removed, the warship comes off simply.

[reagan]

When the hook for hanging the minus thread which is underneath the film advance lever is removed, the warship comes off simply.I know. I thought, "Warship? Man, those little half-frames are bigger than I thought!"