View Full Version : What the Heck Happened!?!?!? Help!
dazedgonebye
11-21-2006, 10:40
I ran a quick 12 exposure roll through the new fed-2/jupiter9 combo and I'm not sure what happened.
The film advanced to frame 1 at least. There's a shot there that looks pretty good. Unfortunately, the rest of the roll is blank--with the exception of 4 small light leak looking streaks.
I'm imagining the possibilities:
1) I took one shot then put the cap on. No, I took the first few shots one after another, so if I have one, I should have several.
2) The film advanced to the first frame but slipped from there on out.
3) Some bizzare malfunction related to the shutter.
Any ideas?
The shutter delay arm isn't catching the second curtain if my experience with the Zorki 3M is anything to go by :( try winding on and firing the shutter with some tension still on the wind on knob whilst looking through the back of the camera , if that fixes it check for dirt and gunge ,old film chips etc catching in the gears of the rewind mechanism as thats what it was with my 3M which was not allowing a full wind on .
Paul
dazedgonebye
11-21-2006, 11:12
That looks right. I've been working it and it's now firing about 3 out of 4 times.
I guess I'll take a blower to it and see what that does. Am I going to have to start taking things apart here?
Oh just a thought , if you look at the bottom of the shutter cage theres a flat spring that holds the delay arm up until the shutter is released , You can see a small piece of rod protruding out of the bottom if you carefully lift the spring,This is the shutter pawl that delays the second curtain . If you cant see this rod or it doesn't appear to move as you lift the spring the shutter pawl rod could be sticking causing the second curtain to be released at the same time as the first .
Am I going to have to start taking things apart here?
Hopefully not , Try blowing it out and maybe apply a very small amount of lubricant , 3 in 1 oil thinned 50/50 with lighter fluid ,applied to the gear teeth with a cocktail stick does the trick .
Btw welcome to the wonderful world of FSU cameras ;)
Paul
dazedgonebye
11-21-2006, 11:44
It seems a bit more reliable after the blowing. I did notice that a with few shots at 1/60th, the first curtain stalled about halfway across before moving on.
I did notice that a with few shots at 1/60th, the first curtain stalled about halfway across before moving on.
I would just work it for awhile ,In most cases that will sort it , You could also try leaving it on a windowsill above a radiator , A nice gentle warming can get the yak spit flowing nicely and has given me a short time fix for a few sticky shutters :D
Paul
dazedgonebye
11-21-2006, 12:15
Thanks for all the advice Paul. I'll work it over tonight and see what comes of it.
Funny, the other Fed-2 fires like a charm but has an iffy rangefinder. This one has a questionable shutter with a great rangefinder. Both cameras are showing me great potential then disapointing me.
There are a number of relationship parallels here that I won't go in to.
Thanks for all the advice Paul. I'll work it over tonight and see what comes of it.
Funny, the other Fed-2 fires like a charm but has an iffy rangefinder. This one has a questionable shutter with a great rangefinder. Both cameras are showing me great potential then disappointing me.
There are a number of relationship parallels here that I won't go in to.
No problem Steve , glad to help .
The great potential but failing is a common FSU trait unfortunately , best described as "when there good there very good :cool: when there bad there f*@%^$ awful " :bang:
:D Paul
keep in mind that you ARE buying cameras that someone else decided they could live without. Very often, there's a reason they could live without it. It could have worked flawlessly for 30 years, then it started acting erratic, and up for sale it went. That's why I usually feel it is smarter to pay "too much" for a used item than to try to buy something dirt cheap.
John Robertson
11-21-2006, 17:05
I would suggest also checking the shutter blind track at the top and bottom of the film gate, little chips of film can lodge there. I tend to find that a blower just moves the dust to some other annoying place.
Get a length of clear plastic tubing , about 1/4 inch diameter, and a large rubber bung with a hole in it. You can often find this stuff in a store which sells kits for home brew beer!! Put the bung in the end of your Vacuum cleaner hose, with the clear plastic tube through it, then use it as a mini vac hose, and carefully and gently clean out all the nooks and crannies in the camera.
dazedgonebye
11-21-2006, 17:39
keep in mind that you ARE buying cameras that someone else decided they could live without. Very often, there's a reason they could live without it. It could have worked flawlessly for 30 years, then it started acting erratic, and up for sale it went. That's why I usually feel it is smarter to pay "too much" for a used item than to try to buy something dirt cheap.
Unfortunately, my experience with that philosophy is that I end up with much more expensive junk.
Ideally, I'd like to buy all my stuff off of the members here...figuring they've already gone through the pain. Very little of that comes up though.
dazedgonebye
11-21-2006, 17:40
I would suggest also checking the shutter blind track at the top and bottom of the film gate, little chips of film can lodge there. I tend to find that a blower just moves the dust to some other annoying place.
Get a length of clear plastic tubing , about 1/4 inch diameter, and a large rubber bung with a hole in it. You can often find this stuff in a store which sells kits for home brew beer!! Put the bung in the end of your Vacuum cleaner hose, with the clear plastic tube through it, then use it as a mini vac hose, and carefully and gently clean out all the nooks and crannies in the camera.
I may have a mini-vac at work. We'll see what tonight's blow and go does for me.
dazedgonebye
11-21-2006, 19:11
Well, nothing is helping. I blew, I cleaned, I lightly lubed....
1/30th is still bulb almost all the time. 1/60th stops halfway through sometimes and the curtain follows to quickly other times. Sometimes it works.
1/125 and 1/250th are good better than half the time. 1/500th is bad 90% of the time.
I'll be looking for someone domestically to cla the thing.
steve, if the other fed2 works well, why not fixing its RF? thats probably easier to do than a shutter. or what do you mean by iffy Rangefinder?
btw. did you use a 85mm VF with your Fed2-J9 combo? how did you get the VF in there? I am thinking of getting a Z-6 for J9, but wish I could use the Fed2.
Well, nothing is helping. I blew, I cleaned, I lightly lubed....
1/30th is still bulb almost all the time. 1/60th stops halfway through sometimes and the curtain follows to quickly other times. Sometimes it works.
1/125 and 1/250th are good better than half the time. 1/500th is bad 90% of the time.
I'll be looking for someone domestically to cla the thing.
Hi,Yuri at Fedka.com has a CLA for 60.00.Always hear good things about this service.He's in N.Y...........Robin
dazedgonebye
11-22-2006, 04:37
The rangefinder on the other fed2 seems reasonably accurate, but I can't get the vertical adjusted well to save my life. Along with the fact that it's really dirty in there, makes it tough to use.
I have a Nippon Kogaku viewfinder that I got off of the auction site for $55. It looks like this one. http://tinyurl.com/yhxenh
steve, if the other fed2 works well, why not fixing its RF? thats probably easier to do than a shutter. or what do you mean by iffy Rangefinder?
btw. did you use a 85mm VF with your Fed2-J9 combo? how did you get the VF in there? I am thinking of getting a Z-6 for J9, but wish I could use the Fed2.
dazedgonebye
11-22-2006, 04:42
Hi,Yuri at Fedka.com has a CLA for 60.00.Always hear good things about this service.He's in N.Y...........Robin
Thanks Robin,
I'm going to check a local guy first, he's (at least) semi-retired though and I'm not sure he'll do them. He learned his trade with the Navy in WWII, so I think we can understand if he doesn't take on much new work anymore.
dazedgonebye
11-27-2006, 16:52
I've done some additional playing with this thing and have more information. Perhaps someone will have another suggestion.
I did the ronsonol thing and that was no help. What I have noticed though that when I actuate the shutter by pulling down on the mechanism at the bottom of the shutter assembly INSTEAD of using the shutter button, the thing works right every time.
It's as though somehow the button is not coupled correctly to the release mechanism.
Does that help any?
comp_wiz101
11-27-2006, 17:08
I've done some additional playing with this thing and have more information. Perhaps someone will have another suggestion.
I did the ronsonol thing and that was no help. What I have noticed though that when I actuate the shutter by pulling down on the mechanism at the bottom of the shutter assembly INSTEAD of using the shutter button, the thing works right every time.
It's as though somehow the button is not coupled correctly to the release mechanism.
Does that help any?
Hmm... if you look at the base of the film sprocket, you should see a little gear that is pushed down when you press the shutter release. Perhaps a touch of oil into where the shaft runs would be helpful.
dazedgonebye
11-27-2006, 17:59
No help from the lube either....
Hi Steve. If it's going to cost more than what you paid for the camera, I'd try to fix it myself. The worst thing that can happen is it'll be in pieces. But I'm sure you'll learn a lot and gain a lot in confidence doing it. You'll also have some nice spare parts.
You mentioned that, "when I actuate the shutter by pulling down on the mechanism at the bottom of the shutter assembly INSTEAD of using the shutter button, the thing works right every time". Do all the shutter speeds fire properly when you do this? Is there any resistance when you press down on the shutter button? Does the shutter button return to the original height? What is the condition of the "mechanism" at the bottom of the shutter (could it be bent)? Are the 2 screws holding the "mechanism" tight? These may sound like silly questions but it'll help me paint a better mental picture of what's going on.
dazedgonebye
11-28-2006, 05:56
Hi Steve. If it's going to cost more than what you paid for the camera, I'd try to fix it myself. The worst thing that can happen is it'll be in pieces. But I'm sure you'll learn a lot and gain a lot in confidence doing it. You'll also have some nice spare parts.
You mentioned that, "when I actuate the shutter by pulling down on the mechanism at the bottom of the shutter assembly INSTEAD of using the shutter button, the thing works right every time". Do all the shutter speeds fire properly when you do this? Is there any resistance when you press down on the shutter button? Does the shutter button return to the original height? What is the condition of the "mechanism" at the bottom of the shutter (could it be bent)? Are the 2 screws holding the "mechanism" tight? These may sound like silly questions but it'll help me paint a better mental picture of what's going on.
If I work on it, "the worst thing" is almost certain to happen. I have a long record of killing lenses/cameras.
That said, I'll jump in with the famous last words "what have I got to lose?"
The mechanism to which I refer is that piece of metal secured by two screws on one end that flexes whenever you push the shutter button. If I pull down on the shutter end of it, the thing fires right every time at every speed.
To me, this indicates that there is something wrong in the linkage between the button and whatever actually fires the thing. This is borne out, I believe, by the fact that sometimes, if I push the button just right, everything works great.
The shutter feels different from my working Fed, but I can't really say how. It doesn't feel like it sticks really, just different.
I've blown, cleaned and lightly lubed everything in that line that I can get to without dissasembly.
If I had the confidence for the job, I'd whip the parts out of the other Fed-2 I have and use them to repair this one. I'm very much afraid if I did that, I'd simply have 2 dead feds.
If I work on it, "the worst thing" is almost certain to happen. I have a long record of killing lenses/cameras.
That said, I'll jump in with the famous last words "what have I got to lose?"
T
lol. Didn't mean to laugh but I know where you're coming from with that.
Give this a try........find a small screw (example: the type that secures your hard drive to the bracket in your computer) and screw it on to your shutter button. The screw will act like a "soft shutter release button". I'm thinking maybe your shutter button isn't going down as far as it need to. Let me know how that turns out. If that takes care of it I have a better idea on what's wrong.
dazedgonebye
11-28-2006, 08:10
lol. Didn't mean to laugh but I know where you're coming from with that.
Give this a try........find a small screw (example: the type that secures your hard drive to the bracket in your computer) and screw it on to your shutter button. The screw will act like a "soft shutter release button". I'm thinking maybe you shutter button isn't going down as far as it need to. Let me know how that turns out. If that takes care of it I have a better idea on what's wrong.
Laugh all you want. I try to make my little tragedies funny. They're easier to take that way.
I've impressed myself! I actually thought of a soft shutter button as something that might help. I'll see if I have a screw of the right size laying about.
Thanks for all the help. It's the sort of thing that makes this board a great place. :D
If the soft shutter idea works than I think the "collar" around the shutter may not be screwed down far enough before they secured it with the screw on the side. Good luck and keep me updated on this please.
"It's the sort of thing that makes this board a great place". I couldn't agree with you more. :)
dazedgonebye
11-28-2006, 14:41
Hey, Hey! What do you know?! With a soft shutter (aka #4 screw) on the button, all is well.
Can you guide me through fixing the underlying problem?
Nice to be hopeful....
I'm glad it worked out Steve. Check out post #5 in this link. It should be able to "get it" with this link on how to fix it. If not, just let me know.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=895
dazedgonebye
11-28-2006, 15:12
I'm glad it worked out Steve. Check out post #5 in this link. It should be able to "get it" with this link on how to fix it. If not, just let me know.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=895
Well, that came off easy enough. Unfortunately, I was unable to make it screw down any further than it already was and it still has the same problem.
Perhaps something is wrong further in and the button has become marginal...now only working with the help of the "soft release."
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