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View Full Version : M2 vs M6TTL - I'm spoiled for life!


markinlondon
11-20-2006, 13:03
I have just collected my M2 from Aperture where it was having a warranty repair on the shutter. It now opens at speeds above 1/60th. Hooray :) :)
In the ten days or so it was away I've been using my M6TTL again having put it aside when I bought the M2. The difference in these bodies is remarkable, I will soon be selling my M6 to finance another M2.
First, the finder; the M2 is so beautifully simple, no multiple frames, no flashing lights and a much more accurate 50 frame. Second, the advance is so smoooooth compared with the M6 especially now the shutter has been relubed. Thirdly, the release is much more positive without the microswitch at the halfway point. And, finally, I'm struck by the difference 3mm extra body height makes to the feel of the camera particularly if, like me, you have small hands.
In short, I'm ruined. I crave classic M's and older, single coated lenses. I'll even put up with the loading and the manual frame counter.

ChrisN
11-20-2006, 13:06
Mark - try an M4!

Magnus
11-20-2006, 13:08
I find the older M's to be very much smoother than the current ones. I have an MP which I really like (metering mostly) but I also have an M4 which is one of the smoothest cameras I have ever owned (after a Leica, Solms CLA) .... I do so dislike using an external meter though ...

steve garza
11-20-2006, 13:09
Mark,
I agree. Once I picked up an M2 (at 1/2 the price), the M6 was pushed to the back of the bag and stayed there. One thing I will say...a new MP is even better.....

markinlondon
11-20-2006, 13:10
You're all absolutely right, but "Get thee behind me, Satan" :)
Actually, I probably will when I go shopping for a second body, it's just that they're so expensive here at present and good M2's can be had quite reasonably. And does an MP (even used) really give the value of three or four M2's?

shenkerian
11-20-2006, 13:12
Hi Mark, congratulations on your healthy M2. As someone deciding between similar bodies as yours, I'm curious whether you'll miss the 28mm framelines at all. I really like the idea of isolated 35 and 50 in an M body (I consider the Ikon's framelines pretty much perfect).

Also, can you tell any difference between the "matte" framelines in the M2 and the framelines in the M6 TTL?

Thanks.

f8&go
11-20-2006, 13:15
Can anyone comment specifically on the use
of the M2 finder with a 35mm lense while
wearing GLASSES?

Thank you. If I've asked this before I
just can't remember the answer.

Magnus
11-20-2006, 13:17
The MP as a camera is certainly not worth the money, but this is a pretty subjective statement.... For the same amount you can buy an M2, M3 and M4 but what to do with all these cameras....

Don't forget at the time of introduction of the M2, 3 and 4 these were also very expensive. Now we purchase a 40 year camera for the price of a Sony digital R-1 or many other state of the art cameras... is it worth it ... ?

The value is also in the eye of the beholder ....

Flyfisher Tom
11-20-2006, 13:22
my vote for the M3 and M4 :)

markinlondon
11-20-2006, 13:22
I won't miss the 28 frame as I've never actually seen it ( I wear glasses) and I don't own or intend to own a 28mm lens at present. The same goes for 135. The M2 frames are "bolder" i.e. a little thicker and somehow less "intrusive" but that's probably just the lack of extra stuff inside the frame.
As for the 35, I can just see all four sides with my glasses on, but not much outside. I do have very flexible titanium frames that bend into my face when using the finder, though.

lubitel
11-20-2006, 13:29
mark, how does the smoothness of your M2 after the cla compare to its smoothness before the cla? I think my M2 is quite smooth, but I wouldnt say that its smoother than, say m4 (which I just tried this weekend)

shenkerian
11-20-2006, 13:41
Thanks Mark. I doubt I'll miss the 28mm either then -- it sounds like the entire frame will be a reasonable approximation. Enjoy your M2.

f8&go
11-20-2006, 13:54
Thanks for the eyeglass report.

raid
11-20-2006, 13:57
I have both a mint M3 and a mint M6. The M3 feels much more "professional" but the M6 has a meter. The film advance feels better in the M3. Both are great cameras to use.

Raid

drewbarb
11-20-2006, 14:05
I learned to use a RF with an M3, and it's still my favorite camera. I thought I'd prefer an in-camera meter, so I bought an M6. But after a while, I realized that the paired and less accurate framelines bothered me, and the meter diode lights were just annoying. I found myself looking at them all the time and fiddling with my exposure rather than concentrating on my subjects. Now I much prefer to use my hand-held meter, get my exposure readings settled in my head and then think about my subjects and surroundings, and let the monkey-brain handle the exposure adjustments. I bring the camera up to quickly compose and check focus, and maybe shoot- although I'm just as likely to shoot with the camera not in my face. For me, the simplicity of the older cameras has bred confidence in my own ability, and affords me more attention on the subjects, and less attention on the camera.

I won't even go into how smooth and delightful the function of the old bodies is. Sufice to say that the 1999 M6 classic I owned didn't feel nearly as good. I had an M4P which was better, but now I just use a pair of M3's. I sometimes consider adding an M2 for a 35mm frameline, but with a goggled 35, I just don't need it.

markinlondon
11-20-2006, 14:22
mark, how does the smoothness of your M2 after the cla compare to its smoothness before the cla? I think my M2 is quite smooth, but I wouldnt say that its smoother than, say m4 (which I just tried this weekend)

It wasn't a full CLA, Lubitel, just a shutter service under warranty. Before the service there was a slight roughness in the advance. I now realise that this was down to the shutter cocking and was only slight. I think the M2, M3 and M4 are pretty much alike in smoothness, largely due to the brass gearing. The MP's I've handled are similar.

As for built-in meters. When you're as careless about turning the shutter dial to "OFF" and as lax about carrying spare batteries as I am, you tend to learn sunny 16 as a survival technique. Also my first SLR had a broken meter and I couldn't afford one after buying it. Practice makes, if not perfect, at least good enough for print film.

jshelly
11-20-2006, 14:33
While we're on the subject, what the going price for a minty M2 these days?

DeeCee3
11-20-2006, 14:49
I used an M2 for years with no apparent problems in framing the 35mm outline (I wear glasses, too). Another "work-around" I learned was to use the RF patch as the framing reference for the old Hektor 135mm glass. It left a good bit to be desired, of course, but it gave a passable alternative. If you were REALLY careful and breathed quite deliberately, you could usually get a fairly shake-free shot.

dc3

Graham Line
11-20-2006, 15:00
I used an M2 for years with no apparent problems in framing the 35mm outline (I wear glasses, too).

dc3

Same here; the 35 frames were easy to see with the M2, even with specs. People wearing glasses around old Leicas, though, should invest $15 or so in one of the snap-on plastic eyepieces that Don Goldberg sells at http://www.dagcamera.com/leica_m.htm

steve garza
11-20-2006, 15:46
You're all absolutely right, but "Get thee behind me, Satan" :)
Actually, I probably will when I go shopping for a second body, it's just that they're so expensive here at present and good M2's can be had quite reasonably. And does an MP (even used) really give the value of three or four M2's?

value. Everone already knows that . What does an M2/3/6/P/8 do that a cheap Voigtlander body doesn't do? Come on.....none of this is about value. Trying put degrees of value on this whole thing is just silly. That's one dead horse that does not need more beating!!!!

back alley
11-20-2006, 16:09
anyone know of a website that shows the framelines for the different m's?

joe

edodo
11-21-2006, 01:42
A mint M2 can reach skyhigh prices! But with luck, and if you invest time, you can have one for 700 euro; 600 if you are lucky

markinlondon
11-21-2006, 02:08
value. Everone already knows that . What does an M2/3/6/P/8 do that a cheap Voigtlander body doesn't do? Come on.....none of this is about value. Trying put degrees of value on this whole thing is just silly. That's one dead horse that does not need more beating!!!!

OK, Steve, maybe I used the wrong word. I should have said "utility" rather than "value". Three M2's gives me the chance of shooting with two lenses or two different film stocks and still having a backup body to guard against breakdowns due to age. The MP is a beautiful camera but does not make economic sense for me while I can buy good M2's. Add to this the fact that to get the finder I like I'd have to go down the a la carte route and I'll stand by my "value" statement.
Oh, and a good, working M2 (not "mint") costs very little more than a "cheap" Voigtlander body in this country.

edodo
11-21-2006, 03:21
That's right a good CLA'd M2/M3/M4 body is the real thing without the cost of the MP. If you have learn to read the light and shoot black and white emulsion, then those classic M bodies are all you need!

Pherdinand
11-21-2006, 09:20
A mint M2 can reach skyhigh prices! But with luck, and if you invest time, you can have one for 700 euro; 600 if you are lucky

Well, it's not mint, but I got mine for 450 euro through RFF! And i start to like it, after 2 rolls of film. It's not that hard to load - i always hated the idea of bottom loading but seems to be going fine.

cbphoto
11-21-2006, 10:57
What does an M2/3/6/P/8 do that a cheap Voigtlander body doesn't do?

take a dual range summicron, feel really nice, act as an emergency self defense weapon and still function afterwards (probably), attract women.

RdEoSg
11-21-2006, 14:07
take a dual range summicron, feel really nice, act as an emergency self defense weapon and still function afterwards (probably), attract women.


Your's attracts women? All I get are little old japanese men.... :(

cbphoto
11-21-2006, 16:26
Your's attracts women? All I get are little old japanese men.... :(

i've only had one a few days, but the ladyfriends seem to be into it. not as much as a rollei tlr, but it's still there ;)

jshelly
11-21-2006, 17:00
I'd love to pick up an M2 if I could only find one

Crasis
11-21-2006, 17:55
You will attract women with your intricate knowledge of the dual range summicron and it's use. This is analogous to the way a player of World of Warcraft can attract women with their intricate knowledge of level 60 tactics.

steve garza
11-21-2006, 18:43
OK, Steve, maybe I used the wrong word. I should have said "utility" rather than "value". Three M2's gives me the chance of shooting with two lenses or two different film stocks and still having a backup body to guard against breakdowns due to age. The MP is a beautiful camera but does not make economic sense for me while I can buy good M2's. Add to this the fact that to get the finder I like I'd have to go down the a la carte route and I'll stand by my "value" statement.
Oh, and a good, working M2 (not "mint") costs very little more than a "cheap" Voigtlander body in this country.

I almost completely stopped using the TTL completely. I guess I should explain that I meant if you like the M2, you'll love the MP also. It is overpriced but offers a better finder (and I mean better than the "upgrade" for M6) and is nice to use in terms of shutter and film advance. The Mp is just a luxury item I guess. The m2 is wonderful. It is less expensive and offers the un-cluttered frames as well. I still love using it w/ my 35mm lens. I know you'll enjoy it Mark.

Trius
11-21-2006, 18:45
Come to think of it, the DR worked for me in that department, too... good thing I don't have one now, or my wife would ....

David Murphy
11-21-2006, 18:52
It's easy to learn to set exposure in most situations without a meter -- no need for a metered Leica body

RdEoSg
11-21-2006, 21:33
You will attract women with your intricate knowledge of the dual range summicron and it's use. This is analogous to the way a player of World of Warcraft can attract women with their intricate knowledge of level 60 tactics.


Lets just stop there before people start comparing telephoto lengths ok......


Have you ever noticed that while no girl would ever give you a phone number on the street, they gladly give it when they want to rent a lens?

"If you give me your number, I'll let you play with my leica..."

Magus
11-22-2006, 02:53
Post deleted by posters request

back alley
11-22-2006, 08:48
I love the loading, even on the older Ms. It has class, just like the Nikon F had class - then they put in those silly swinging backs and a fair proportion of the charm was lost.


magus, i will never understand this.
and i have tried...

joe

Wayne R. Scott
11-22-2006, 09:12
I love the loading, even on the older Ms. It has class, just like the Nikon F had class - then they put in those silly swinging backs and a fair proportion of the charm was lost.


magus, i will never understand this.
and i have tried...

joe


Apparently Magnus likes holding metal bits in his mouth while he loads film.

Wayne

raid
11-22-2006, 10:07
It's easy to learn to set exposure in most situations without a meter -- no need for a metered Leica body

David: I needed an excuse for my wife to get another Leica camera. Plus, with moving children [in different light situations], exposure can get tricky without a meter. I wanted another camera so that my minty M3 stays that way. Now I need a beaten up Leica to preserve my minty M6! This is a mess :D :bang:

Raid

Xmas
11-22-2006, 10:48
Confused about the glasses thing, I use a 28 mm with M2 or M4 without any real problem, apart from scratches on the plastic lenses.

Do you use (open) both eyes?

Noel

hth
11-22-2006, 13:54
About glasses and the M2, it did not work for me. I cannot see the entire 35mm frames with glasses on. It depends on your glasses, just as whether the eye-piece scratches your glasses depends on the hardness of glass you have.

You have to try it yourself. I solved it recently by skip using glasses as I found it more important to see the 35mm framelines in my M than have good stereo seeing and now endure some slight tireness in the eyes from time to time, but it is worth it! :)

The glasses only comes on occasionly now.. I tried with contact lenses, but could not get them in, too horrifying...

/Håkan

ffttklackdedeng
11-22-2006, 14:24
About glasses and the M2, it did not work for me. I cannot see the entire 35mm frames with glasses on. It depends on your glasses, just as whether the eye-piece scratches your glasses depends on the hardness of glass you have.

You have to try it yourself. I solved it recently by skip using glasses as I found it more important to see the 35mm framelines in my M than have good stereo seeing and now endure some slight tireness in the eyes from time to time, but it is worth it! :)

The glasses only comes on occasionly now.. I tried with contact lenses, but could not get them in, too horrifying...

/Håkan

:D just tried it: I had to approach the viewfinder to roughly 1cm to see the 35mm frame lines!

Regarding the contact lenses: I needed almost 1 hour to put the first one in the first time!! 10 Minutes for the second one and less than 1 Min from the 3rd on.. It's really worth it! :D

Crasis
11-22-2006, 14:24
Waiting for my M2. My abomination of an M2. I even had the newer eyepiece installed so my glasses wouldn't get scratched up.

Waiting for my M2. Why isn't it here yet? I want to see how strange it looks in person :(

Magus
11-22-2006, 16:37
Post deleted by posters request

kully
11-22-2006, 16:43
Regarding the contact lenses: I needed almost 1 hour to put the first one in the first time!! 10 Minutes for the second one and less than 1 Min from the 3rd on.. It's really worth it! :D

I went for a trial fitting four years ago. Same as you it took about an hour to get the first one in, then 15 minutes for the second. Then they said go for a walk around town for a while to get used to them.

Those 15-20 minutes were great.

But then I had to come back and they said the lenses needed to come out.

It took 1.5 hours to get both of them out.

The optician said quietly "I don't think contact lenses are for you"

On topic - I have an M2 coming soon (hopefully). Looking forward to seeing what all the fuss is about.

ghost
11-22-2006, 17:11
hmm, now that i look at it, only the m3, m6ttl, m7, and m8 have windows symmetrically along one axis. the m2, m4, m5, and especially the m6 and mp are asymmetrical, with a lowered/cutoff viewfinder window. the metallic vf mag label accentuates the 'tired eyes' design. :rolleyes:

Magus
11-22-2006, 17:24
Post deleted by posters request

ijohnnyz
11-22-2006, 21:44
hmm, now that i look at it, only the m3, m6ttl, m7, and m8 have windows symmetrically along one axis. the m2, m4, m5, and especially the m6 and mp are asymmetrical, with a lowered/cutoff viewfinder window. the metallic vf mag label accentuates the 'tired eyes' design. :rolleyes:

say what? I've been debating between an M6ttl or an M2. Please clarify their VF differences.

Magus
11-23-2006, 00:03
Post deleted by posters request