View Full Version : Leica M3 and FSU rangefinder
vanyagor
11-17-2006, 19:27
I went to a store today and had a chance to play with a Leica M3 DS. I was simply amazed by the brightness, sharpness of the rangefinder. I have Zorki 3M and a bunch of feds and none of them comes even close :(
Zorki rangefinder is pretty big, but you can barely see the image in the second window, so it's tough to match it with the view from the first window.
Question: which FSU has a rangefinder unit that can compare to Leica M3. Does that exist at all? Or is my Zorki faulty? Which FSU brangefinder has the best (brightest rangefinder unit and how does it compare to the one of M3
Thanks.
Michael I.
11-17-2006, 19:46
none.leica m3 is superior to any fsu rf.
The closest fsu rf to the M-series Leicas would be the Kiev. However even the Kiev comes nowhere close.
Yep, that's what was so mind-blowing at the time about the M3 and M2, and one good reason other major RF makers just gave it up and concentrated on SLRs. FSU was of course a whole different world.
vanyagor
11-17-2006, 23:01
Thanks a lot for your responces!
Couple more questions:
1. Can anyone compare Leningrad rangefinder unit to M3 rangefinder? Is it better thank Kiev's ?
2. How do screw mount Leicas rangefinders compare to the one in M3?
3. What's the difference between M3 and M2 rangefinder?
4. I've heard that later models have smaller rangefinder than M3 is that right? How do they compare in usability with M3.
My eye sight is not good at all, so good rangefinder is the most important part for me. Considering this and the fact I've seen the M3 ;) what would you recommend? I do not think I can convince my wife that I need [another] 800$ (the price for that M3 I played with) camera!!! Let's say in pricerange below 300$ ...
The Rangefinder on my really Tidy "Barnack" Leica III is really dim indeed (almost impossible to use in low indoor light), way dimmer than the one in the Zorki C though it is aligned and seemedly accurate, the viewfinder however is nice and bright, brighter than the Zorki..
The Zorki-4 has the combined viewfinder / RF of course and is easier to use and bigger/brighter than the Z-C though still nothing like the R-D1 let alone an M6
David Murphy
11-18-2006, 00:44
Yes, well of course the Cosina Voigtlander Bessa series is about as good as the M3 with respect to finders, but it's taken them 50 years to get there. There is undue hype circulating here and in other places as to the utility of FSU rangefinders - I was never impressed -- they are simply not in the same league as Leica M, or even most Japanese offerings. The M3 is "the real deal" and it fully deserves the money it gets on the used market.
patrickjames
11-18-2006, 01:17
I have found the few FSU rangefinders that I own to be "adequate". They can be improved if you take out the optics of the viewfinder and the diopter. I have a Fed 2 that is really nice because of this. Definitely not in the brightness league of my M3 though. Like I said - adequate.
mfunnell
11-18-2006, 04:38
As to your M3 vs M2 finder question, you could do worse than look at Stephen Gandy's page on RF viewfinders:
http://www.cameraquest.com/leica.htm
It doesn't capture everything, and I can disagree with some of his opinions, but this (along with much else on his site) is worth becoming familiar with.
...Mike
If you need to combine a good viewfinder and rangefinder with a small budget, I suggest the Bessa R cameras (R, R2, ...)
yes on a budget the bessa r is great, but, you can do better than $800 for an m3.
and....
everyone needs an m3.
yes on a budget the bessa r is great, but, you can do better than $800 for an m3.
and....
everyone needs an m3.
Someone had to say that eventually!
zhang xk
11-18-2006, 08:36
I have found the few FSU rangefinders that I own to be "adequate". They can be improved if you take out the optics of the viewfinder and the diopter. I have a Fed 2 that is really nice because of this. Definitely not in the brightness league of my M3 though. Like I said - adequate.
I think you mean Zara? That camera has a very bright view finder. Other FSU rangefinder cameras that come to my mind are Leningrad, Kiev 5, LOMO 135B that has a very bright range/view finder.
rogue_designer
11-18-2006, 08:41
yes on a budget the bessa r is great, but, you can do better than $800 for an m3.
and....
everyone needs an m3.
Sure... or $400 for a Canon P (1:1 baby!) ;)
this of course with the caveat that I would still love to have an M3.
Well, I have both a P and M3. They are both excellent cameras. If I had to choose one??????????? M3, but I would not feel stuck if I ended up with the P.
Someone had to say that eventually!
As you know Frank, I cannot do justice to the author of that phrase. I am only honoring another as best I can.
SteveM(PA)
11-18-2006, 09:09
On my two FSU cameras, and my IIIF, thanks to the diopter correction, and the extreme magnification of the IIIF, I can take off my glasses and focus clearly, mashing those cameras against my face in low light. I can't do that with my XA or M3 (I guess you can buy an M3 diopter though), and I can't see the 35 and 50 framelines, respectively, with my glasses on. XA and M3 are my my least favorite finders, by far, as a glasses wearer.
wolves3012
11-18-2006, 09:22
Brightest finder of my FSUs is the Zorki 4k, far brighter than any of my FEDs. Saying that, the rangefinder contrast on the FEDs (a 2b and a 3a) is very high, so they aren't that bad to use in poor light.
julio1fer
11-18-2006, 10:20
I use a KMZ turret finder, and I find it quite adequate.
David Murphy
11-18-2006, 10:42
In my view the impression I get handling an M3 is not that any of the fine cameras mentioned in the above posts have problems (I own some of them), it's just that the M3 is so special, particularly for it's time. And yes I agree, that the Bessa R has the best viewfinder for the money. It is certainly a great all-around camera for shooting on a modest budget -- a bargain really in the rangedfinder universe.
SteveM(PA)
11-18-2006, 11:06
On my two FSU cameras, and my IIIF, thanks to the diopter correction, and the extreme magnification of the IIIF, I can take off my glasses and focus clearly, mashing those cameras against my face in low light. I can't do that with my XA or M3 (I guess you can buy an M3 diopter though), and I can't see the 35 and 50 framelines, respectively, with my glasses on. XA and M3 are my my least favorite finders, by far, as a glasses wearer.
I should further say that, of course, for 90mm and 135mm, it's M3 all the way...with or without my glasses.
vanyagor
11-18-2006, 13:49
Thanks a lot for so many usefull answers and suggestions.
Couple more questions:
What is a good price for an M3 (body)?
What is a good price for Bessa R?
Also some poster misunderstood what my problem is. It's not viewfinder. It's the smaller image from the rangefinder.
In my Zorki-3M I can barely see it even in good conditions. It's usable only on very contrasty subjects and where I can see a sharp edge or some vertical line. Almost impossible to focus on a face or in low light. I do not say it is impossible, it just requires too many efforts for me. Actually my feds are much better than my Zorki 3M. They have much smaller and less bright viewfinder, but the image from the rangefinder is pretty sharp.
Is Zorki 3M rangefinder really so dim, or is mine faulty. How can I improve the image from the rangefinder? Is it worth to disassemble/clean it? If you know of some instructions for disassembling/cleaning the rangefinder unit, please let me know.
I`ve never used a 3M but It sounds like it needs a cleanout - I have the "C" which is closer to a Zorki 2 and the RF is pretty good, no where near as dim as my Leica III (which probably also needs a cleanout) - maybe Zorkikat or others can report on the 3M`s RF unit but I`d expect it to be at least as good as a Zorki C which is more than usable..
You could try Rick Oleson,s (http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-165.html) tip for resurrecting a dim rf patch . I might give it a go on my 3M as the viewfinder is bright enough but as you say the rf patch is a little dim.
OK just tried it on my 3M and it's definitely an improvement but you need to match the size of the piece of tape with the size of the rf patch or you will have problems focusing on smaller objects due to the tape obstructing the viewfinder .
Paul
A DS M3 in decent user shape can be found with some shopping for @$600, maybe less if you are lucky, you will see some for more too. I bought a 1966 SS M3 which was CLA'd by DAG in good condition, some day when I change the vulcanite it will be better, for $700.
Well, yes, actually too the viewfinder of the Zorki 3m is larger than the Leica LTM models and even the late larger VF Canon models, but it is no match for a M type VF (that includes the Bessas, Hexar RF, ZI...)
You can buy a new Silver Bessa R from Cameraquest or Photo Village for $250, $300 for a black one, jump up to $400 and you will get it with a nice 35mm lens.
I don't have a Leica M3--yet--but I do own two Zorki 3m cameras. I sent one to Oleg (okvintagecamera.com (http://www.okvintagecamera.com/index.html)) and had it CLA'ed. The difference between it and the other one is startling! I am going to send the other one off to him soon. The biggest difference is the RF patch; on the serviced camera I can see it very well in almost any lighting. The other one, however, is effectively unusable any other time than daytime outdoors.
Ronb
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