Anti shake in body

[Nikon Bob]

Just curious to see if any users of the M8 would consider this a useful feature to have had in the M8. I can see where it could be very helpful.

Bob

[shenkerian]

If I'm not mistaken, existing antishake systems work by examining the autofocus point and attempting to keep it steady. I'm sure "antishake" is right under "autofocus" on Leica's list of features to add.

[Finder]

AF is not needed for Anti-Shake - if you are refering to the Konica Minolta technology. AS can be used with manual focus.

I would imaging Leica had enough on ther plate with designing a digital rangefinder without having to work in AS. Certainly it would have added to the size of the body and I am sure they wanted to keep it as thin as possible.

The other problem is patents. They would either need to licence the technology and that licence has gone to Sony. Or they would have had to develop something entirely unique. Hard to do.

[Nikon Bob]

Thanks guys for your replies, although I did not ask if it was possible to do or not or that it in anyway implied auto focus was involved. I only wondered if M8, or any other RF users for that matter, would find such a feature useful.

Bob

[Trius]

Wouldn't interest me. An RF offers lower vibration due to no mirror slap; add to that more compact high speed lenses, and you have 1-2 more stops anyway. More electronics is more expense and more chance for screw-ups.

[Nikon Bob]

Wouldn't interest me. An RF offers lower vibration due to no mirror slap; add to that more compact high speed lenses, and you have 1-2 more stops anyway. More electronics is more expense and more chance for screw-ups.

Being an M and SM user I fully appreciate the first part of your comment re the 1-2 stop gain simply by the RF virtue of no reflex mirror. The advantage of an anti shake feature in the body would increase that already existing advantage and allow you to use slower lenses and/or lower iso settings. Seems like a win/win situation to me. The last part of your statement I can also agree with as being the down side.

Bob

[newyorkone]

Yawn...no thanks.

[AndyPiper]

I am paying Leica to put as FEW automated gizmos into the camera as possible. Give me a shutter dial, shutter button, aperture ring, focus tab, and I can shoot pictures. Anything else is excess baggage.

I'd pay car makers extra to put in manual transmissions instead of automatic ones - fortunately, they haven't discovered that yet

8^)

[Rico]

Anti-shake in my body can be quite helpful in low light, but I prefer a traditional technology: alcohol. :D No patent restriction, and usable with any mechanical camera.

[Magnus]

Anti shake is perfect for non-moving subjects; architecture and landscape, but most will use a tripod for that anyway.
In body anti shake in my opinion is just another thing which can break easily, unless you treat your body with the greatest care. I go for the in-lens anti shake. But then I'm use the VR lenses.

[Mark Norton]

Hey, they can't even get the colour right, I think Autofocus and Anti-Shake will have to wait.

[IGMeanwell]

Leica already is making OS 4/3rds lenses

Of course this is stretching... but they could always make an OS prime for their M mount

[kevin m]

Anti-shake works very well at controlling the chief cause of blurry, low-shutter speed pics, and that's hand shaking. No mirror slap is a moot point if you can't keep your hand perfectly still at 1/8th.

I'm not spending 5k on any digital camera, even if it works perfectly. The upcoming Pentax K10D looks appealing as it has their version of anti-shake and 10MP for under a grand. Plus Pentax offers a range of compact, almost pancake lenses including a 21 and a 45mm.

[IGMeanwell]

Nikon's VR is excellent in the Telephoto setting

with the 24-120 I can hand hold shutter speeds at about 1/10th and even if I am lucky decently sharp at 1/8th (though that is rare)

but 1/20th is not problem for the VR lenses as long as your subject is staying still

[etherfarm]

I went from a very sophisticated professional DSLR system (back) to the M system because with the DSLR, I no longer felt like I was taking pictures. Any craft or skill for the resulting images was mediated by 80-billion-point autofocus, computer-controlled exposure, the ability to take over 8 frames per second by just holding down the shutter, etc. I no longer felt like a photographer, I felt like someone holding up a photography machine.

Whether or not this is actually different with a Leica M is of course debatable, but I once again feel like I'm participating in the photographic process instead of just facilitating it. I'm not a pro, so perhaps I have the luxury of being able to say that the process of creating an image is just as important to me as the actual image. In some cases, perhaps even more important.

If you want the camera to shake less, learn to hold it steady, get a tripod, get creative with your camera bracing, buy a faster lens, etc. Like a previous response, I paid the M8 premium precisely to _not_ have these sort of features--I already have them on my other camera.

Also, having those features and turning them off is not as appealing to me as not having them available in the first place.

[kevin m]

If you want the camera to shake less, learn to hold it steady, get a tripod, get creative with your camera bracing, buy a faster lens, etc...

While I agree with you about the appeal of a simple camera, I disagree with the workarounds you list here. Using a tripod is simply silly for most fast-paced work, fast lenses means an unusably shallow depth of field and if holding my camera steady means I have to give up caffeine, then the world's going to be a much grumpier place. :D

[Trius]

Anti-shake in my body can be quite helpful in low light, but I prefer a traditional technology: alcohol. :D No patent restriction, and usable with any mechanical camera.
Ah. I had been wondering about your avatar; quite clear now! :angel:

[mike_j]

As a KM 5D user I am used to anti shake and find it a great asset. I regularly use long lenses (upto 840mm equiv) in poor light with only beanbag support for wildlife shots and it extends what is possible. For rangefinder use with more moderate length lenses it is perhaps less usefull but for natural light it will make shots practial that were impossible, and ones that were acceptable, potentially excellent. The technology is developed and robust within the digital world timescale and I can only recommend it.

[AShearer]

For many of the reasons stated already, I don't think I would want it. More stuff to break down etc.

I use a couple of VR lenses on my Nikons and find them very effective in the right circumstances.

But on a rangefinder, no.

[Nikon Bob]

I guess Leica users are a pretty staid group in general and Leica knows their client base well.

Bob

[egpj]

I guess Leica users are a pretty staid group in general and Leica knows their client base well.

Bob


Try this => http://www.ken-lab.com/index.html

I am waiting until I absolutely have to buy one. Which may be soon enough.

[Nikon Bob]

Try this => http://www.ken-lab.com/index.html

I am waiting until I absolutely have to buy one. Which may be soon enough.

Just what you really need, a huge external pod on a RF.

Bob

[lxlim]

Just what you really need, a huge external pod on a RF.

Bob

True but the Ken-lab gyros have abilities that image stabilisation in camera and in-lens cannot match (yet)

Only if you need it then the gyros are invaluable. Some pictures cannot be captured otherwise.

Aerial photography (vibrations from helicopters/planes).
Provides Stable platform down to 1 second shutter speed

External gyros are also useful for lenses and camera bodies that do not have IS and keeping the stabilizing function separate might make sense.

A friend of mine is a pro sports shooter has the theory that IS lenses are too fragile for pro work but with so many pros using IS lenses it should not be that big an issue.

Alex

[Toby]

I like the option of having any kind of help available as long as I can turn it off and use the camera manually.

[Nikon Bob]

Alex

I would just as soon give up alittle performance and stay with an in body stabilization system than hang a huge apendage of an RF. I am sure the gyro stab units are invaluable but just too bulky for me.

Toby

I will take any advantage I can get also and the nice thing is you can turn off a stabilization system if you want.

Bob

[KM-25]

Just curious to see if any users of the M8 would consider this a useful feature to have had in the M8. I can see where it could be very helpful.

Bob

If you are on a shoot and one of your lenses with IS breaks, you switch lenses. If you are on a shoot with IS in camera, it breaks and you don't have a pro level back-up, your done.

I am willing to bet that most camera makers will keep this out of cameras of a pro level for it is just one more thing to break and hose your job.

[KM-25]

Try this => http://www.ken-lab.com/index.html

I am waiting until I absolutely have to buy one. Which may be soon enough.

I own a KS-6, I use it for aerial work with my XPan all the time. I also use it for rather unorthodox things.

[rxmd]

If you are on a shoot and one of your lenses with IS breaks, you switch lenses. If you are on a shoot with IS in camera, it breaks and you don't have a pro level back-up, your done.
If you are on a shoot and one of your lenses with AF breaks, you switch lenses. If you are on a shoot with AF in camera, it breaks and you don't have a pro level back-up, you're done.

If you are on a shoot and your external winder breaks, you go on winding manually. If you are on a shoot with a camera with automatic transport, it breaks and you don't have a pro level back-up, you're done.

--> It may be a factor of added complexity, but if it's worth it for pro's in terms of results, they will just run the risk like they've done with other complex add-ons.

Philipp

[egpj]

I own a KS-6, I use it for aerial work with my XPan all the time. I also use it for rather unorthodox things.

How do you like it? I really want one and have been toying with the idea for some time now. I was thinking about getting one of these while working on contract in California doing crop identification. Go along in a helo with the door off and snap shots using a D2X that records GPS position at the same time. Plus use the KS-6 to stabilize the camera. Shake-n-bake!

"unorthodox"?

[Nikon Bob]

KM-25 and Philipp

Good point and counter point. It guess it has all been downhill since they put lightmeters in camera bodies that needed batteries to work. That is half tongue in cheek and it all depends on how much tolerance you have for electronics. Once you have a digital camera and are up to your shoulders in electronics what is another small electronic feature to add to all those already there.

Bob

[jaapv]

If you are on a shoot and one of your lenses with IS breaks, you switch lenses. If you are on a shoot with IS in camera, it breaks and you don't have a pro level back-up, your done.

I am willing to bet that most camera makers will keep this out of cameras of a pro level for it is just one more thing to break and hose your job.

I like doing wildlife photography. Should I carry TWO 500 mm lenses? :eek:

[jaapv]

If you are on a shoot and one of your lenses with IS breaks, you switch lenses. If you are on a shoot with IS in camera, it breaks and you don't have a pro level back-up, your done.

I am willing to bet that most camera makers will keep this out of cameras of a pro level for it is just one more thing to break and hose your job.

I like doing wildlife photography. Should I carry TWO 500 mm lenses? My poor back (not to mention wallet):eek:

[rxmd]

Hi Jaap,

is that like posting the same text twice, just in case? :D :D :D

Philipp