View Full Version : Things I don't like about the M8
Someone had to start this thread ....
I don't like the lightweight feel of the camera. It does not feel like a brick in my hand. Yes I know some like it lightweight but I don't. Thats just me.
I don't like the shutter release button. It feels cheap and sticky. Almost like a toy. It wobbles in its place. The MP shutter is a perfect fit with no play.
The Frame selector lever is too big. Looks ugly.
Do not like the plastic rim around the lens release button.
The skin could have been more textured and a bit rubbery to the feel. As it is it feels slippery.
But for all I don't like there are many things I like as well. That will be in a different post.
Interesting... The weight of the M8 is pretty much equal to the MP (40grs according to the manual, not including the battery). Your feeling must be influenced by other than pure weight - may be it is the size/weight ratio, or the leather texture, the use of plastics, or just "self-fulfilling prophecy"?
The frame selector lever seems to be similar to the non-classical M bodies - e.g. the M7. You should ask Leica for a M8 "a la carte" - you'll get your perfectly textured skin, the smaller lever for just another x bucks:confused:
I concur on the subjective feel of the camera - my M6 feels more 'solid' and heavier in the hand. You also can feel that the M8 is a bit thicker.
The plastic cover for the USB port is fiddly and the port difficult to access. I am not convinced how much 'wear and tear' it will take.
My main gripe is the battery charger which seems unecessarily large for the battery size; I have seen much smaller chargers around. It will take a l.ot of travelling room.
But...it is a digital M and I can use my Leica lenses so the above issues are easily forgiven. And...the performance so far is living jup to expectations.
Someone had to start this thread ....
[LIST]
I don't like the lightweight feel of the camera. It does not feel like a brick in my hand. Yes I know some like it lightweight but I don't. Thats just me.
You can feel the <1.5 oz difference? That's quite impressive.
I don't like the shutter release button. It feels cheap and sticky. Almost like a toy. It wobbles in its place. The MP shutter is a perfect fit with no play.
How much play does it have? My M6s and My M4 all have a little side play, as did my MP. Just a smidge though, maybe a 1/32".
The Frame selector lever is too big. Looks ugly.
It looks like the MP style but longer like the M6. I disliked the one on my MP, my finger slipped off it more than the M6.
Do not like the plastic rim around the lens release button.
The M6-M7 all have that plastic rim.
The skin could have been more textured and a bit rubbery to the feel. As it is it feels slippery.
I would have to agree, I like my M6s coverings better. But the M8 has (per Leica) the identical material used on the off-the-rack MPs.
I handled an M8 the other day, briefly. It does feel quite light, and for my hands impossible to hold securely without a grip.
Ian
greggebhardt
11-05-2006, 07:42
I hold both my M7 in one hand and my M8 in the pther and the M8 does not feel much lighter, slightly thicker but not much lighter.
My only complaint is the size of the charger, what the heck? Ridiculous large! I also wanted a spare battery and none are to be had.
Others than that, I could not ask for more than the M8. Considering it is a new Digital M body, I would be shocked if some of the traditional Leica owners were not doing a little complaining but in the end the M8 will more than hold it's own!
Come on, people, he called this thread "Things I Don't Like," not "Things That Are Objectively Wrong"!
He paid his five thousand bucks, and for that he's certainly entitled to his opinion of what he bought!
Like JLW said,
These are justthing sI do not like. They are not things that are wrong. Its a personal thing and nothing to do with the quality of the camera. This could be because I have been spoiled with the MP. Wait and see the thread Things I like about the M8.
I am not saying I can feel the 1.5 oz difference in weight between the two cameras. I am saying it feels lighter thats alot different than saying its lighter by 6 oz's. It probably has to do with the ergo of the camera.
The bottom line is it take digital pictures with my M lenses and it's built in the traditional style of the M.
Adding the M8 handgrip will give the camera more heft, yes?
I know what you're saying: after using the Leica Motor drive so much on my M7, I found handling the "naked" camera without the drive unit a bit odd. (Similarly, I don't like the feel of a CV Bessa without its trigger mechanism.)
Maybe Tom A. in Canada will design and manufacture a weight add-in for the M8 to replace the marketshare he'll lose to diminished Rapidwinder sales, eh?
-g
These are justthing sI do not like. They are not things that are wrong. Its a personal thing and nothing to do with the quality of the camera.
I get ya. OK, here's the one and only thing (so far) I do not like about the M8: the $#@*& price :bang:
how long before everybody spending 5k on m8's have to either upgrade or somesuch (as of late, digital cameras in general have a short lifespan --- in a year they'll have an m9 or some such with more digital bells and whistles --- 1 year in digital is the equivilent of 10 years real world... example, you just spent $1500 on a new pc -- obsolete technology in 6 months --- buy a new one in a year... the constant replacement factor might be an issue in the future...
but what do I know? just an old luddite with no desire to chase the digital dream...
shutterflower
11-05-2006, 12:15
how long before everybody spending 5k on m8's have to either upgrade or somesuch (as of late, digital cameras in general have a short lifespan --- in a year they'll have an m9 or some such with more digital bells and whistles --- 1 year in digital is the equivilent of 10 years real world... example, you just spent $1500 on a new pc -- obsolete technology in 6 months --- buy a new one in a year... the constant replacement factor might be an issue in the future...
but what do I know? just an old luddite with no desire to chase the digital dream...
The only reasons to buy the M8 are if you spend enough on film (and don't like film) to warrant the 2x more expensive-than-an-m7 pricetag of the M8 AND if you really wish to exit the whole film/developing/scanning process. These two things might render the aging technology factor unimportant. If you spend enough on film in two years to make up for the replacement cost of the digital technology, then it might make sense to buy the M8. Otherwise, it's just a toy.
SolaresLarrave
11-05-2006, 12:18
I'm glad that people volunteered to participate in this technological and marketing experiment called Leica M8. How could we find out if the brand has appeal otherwise?
Like Memphis, I'm not interested in the digital stuff, but then, that doesn't mean I'll trash it... because it's beneficial for photography.
Now... like Ben Z, I just hate the price of the M8. However, I may think about snagging a used one sometime in the future. Maybe by the time they issue the 40G M10! :)
SolaresLarrave
11-05-2006, 12:23
Sorry... double post. Computer is a bit slow today (and I'm getting impatient with it).
Besides, I'm sick (wheezing, coughing, chest congested), which only makes matters worse.
c.poulton
11-05-2006, 12:28
The only reasons to buy the M8 are if you spend enough on film (and don't like film) to warrant the 2x more expensive-than-an-m7 pricetag of the M8 AND if you really wish to exit the whole film/developing/scanning process. These two things might render the aging technology factor unimportant. If you spend enough on film in two years to make up for the replacement cost of the digital technology, then it might make sense to buy the M8. Otherwise, it's just a toy.
I wouldn't call it a toy, it would work for someone who shoots digital now and wishes to get back to the rangefinder, or as an upgrade to a M* that someone already owns but wishes to move over to digital, regardless of how much film they shoot now.
I too have my reservations on how long the M8 will remain 'current' before the next sensor (full frame?) comes along, or indeed the actual lifespan of the unit. However, once bought it will provide years of very servicable use to the photographer.
If the images it takes come out to the satisfaction of the photographer, and they are happy with it, why change or upgrade unless there is a significant reason to do so.
John Camp
11-05-2006, 12:28
I think, after a day and a half, it's the best camera I've ever owned.
However -- 8-)
1. Too slippery, and the arrangement of features on the back make it difficult to grip securely. The back is not like other Leicas, which are pretty open. This one has all kinds of stuff on it, that you don't want to stick your thumb on. I see some great possibilities here for Luigi, and would be happy to act as a Luigi consultant, for the low, low price of one free Luigi half-case, in light brown.
2. The shutter speed dial is too loose, and moves too easily. I've already nudged it out of one speed into another. Needs a bit tighter click.
3. The removable bottom plate, as Michael Reichmann mentioned in his review, shouldn't be a pain in the *ss, because you can get a couple hundred shots per card and 400 shots on a battery, so when you're out shooting, you're unlikely to have to change it more than once a day. However, if you're testing, and running back and forth from the computer loading shots, it's a pain in the a**.
4. If the Leica strap cost as much as the Leica packaging, and vice-versa, more people would be happy -- unless you really, really like packaging. They could have cut a deal with UP strap and had the best straps in the world wholesale for probably $12-$15, and they shoulda done it. I'd say the Leica strap is a $2 strap.
5. Special note to Sean Reid: Oh, NOW I see why you didn't like the ISO menu arrangement.
6. I think the LCD is going to need a plastic protector of some kind. I wish one had come with the camera, as an optional-installation thing. My nose is now covered with LCD grease.
JC
sunsworth
11-05-2006, 12:30
The only reasons to buy the M8 are if you spend enough on film (and don't like film) to warrant the 2x more expensive-than-an-m7 pricetag of the M8
Twice as expensive? In the UK, M7 = £2079, M8 = £2990. The difference is approx 100 rolls of film and processing, maybe less.
how long before everybody spending 5k on m8's have to either upgrade or somesuch (as of late, digital cameras in general have a short lifespan --- in a year they'll have an m9 or some such with more digital bells and whistles --- 1 year in digital is the equivilent of 10 years real world... example, you just spent $1500 on a new pc -- obsolete technology in 6 months --- buy a new one in a year... the constant replacement factor might be an issue in the future...
but what do I know? just an old luddite with no desire to chase the digital dream...
I think Leica has a slower turnaround on new cameras. How long has teh DMR been out?
Thing I don't like about the M8:
I don't have one.
come on, it' a new product, it's been developed and manufatured by a company who has no experience in doing anything electronical, of course theres something wrong with it, theres probably a lot wrong with once all the buyers have come over their whoo's and whaaa's
Every introduction of a new didgital camera has seen it's problems in the early stages, the companies will make things better, but only after a while and those stuck with the first edition crap ... well so be it, you would know this in advance if we weren't blinded with the wnat to have thing.
Other than the "feel" and weight there is a lot wrong with the M8, pictures wise that is. And I feel that somebody like Sean reid should of researched this better and taken his time instead of rushing from one forum to the other marketing his exclusive review of the m8, but there again again it's the M8 madness, people will blindly buy anything with a decent brand name and defend its top quality beyond belief, and after the inititial "having" blast has gone people will see their product for what it is and start complaining. You can read these complaints all accross the Net by the way.
I have the M8 too.... I didn't expect a great product, I just like having it, I thought of all of the above before I bought it, and still bought it ... and after having used it for 3 days or so .... it's nothing special, it doesn't make magnificent pictures, it's just another digital camera, a very expensive digital camera, no ... a very very very expensive digital camera ... for what it's actually worth. At least I didn't have to take any credit out in order to buy it, people that did and will be paying xxx$ a months for the next few years will probably be very pissed off deep in their hearts, for it's nothing special ....
I'm not knocking it --- I'm just neutral about it --- truth is, we don't know yet what the lifespan of any m8 will be... in a few years, we might see on ebay the following:
m8, still in original unopened box, serial # XXXX007, BIN price $15,000usd
but in a year, they could be going for $300 on ebay as well --- a year is a long time in the digital world... let's see how durable they end up being...
could I save $4500 and get me a minox m3 digital? that's the real question
.... and peole will still do their best to defend their purchase, this is what I find unbelievable .... after a day and a half it is still the best camera I owned ... !!!! boy it may be the best, but his only ever camera.....
try taking a 2500 asa low light ... and see what you think then
Many decades ago my father gave me the advice that there are three tasks no one can do to the complete satisfaction of another - tend the home fires (for heating), make love, or fry a steak, I'll add one other - design a digital M8 that will ever meet all expectations.(Mine is expected to be delivered Tuesday warts and all)
John Camp
11-05-2006, 13:45
after a day and a half it is still the best camera I owned ... !!!! boy it may be the best, but his only ever camera.....
try taking a 2500 asa low light ... and see what you think then
I'm a quick study. I started shooting 35mm cameras in 1960 and have owned probably two dozen of them, including four other digital SLRs. I don't have to rub one on my body for two weeks to know if I like it. I took 2500 ISO shots last night, as I've posted in other places on this forum. If you don't include large, massively over-exposed light sources in them, you're fine. Do you really have one? From your comments, it seems unlikely, because if you had, you'd know that the banding is a relatively minor issue for most people.
Somebody said that you can't tell how much they'll be selling for on ebay in a year. I point out that the DSLR most-trashed by photography trolls, the Kodak Pro-SLRn, still sells on e-bay for ~$1600; I doubt that the Leica will do worse, although I didn't buy it as an investment.
I AM happy with this camera. Despite a few things I personally would have done differently, I think it's well designed, handy to use, and takes great photogaphs; and I'll take it where I wouldn't take my D2x, much less a big Canon.
JC
The only reasons to buy the M8 are if you spend enough on film (and don't like film) to warrant the 2x more expensive-than-an-m7 pricetag of the M8 AND if you really wish to exit the whole film/developing/scanning process. These two things might render the aging technology factor unimportant. If you spend enough on film in two years to make up for the replacement cost of the digital technology, then it might make sense to buy the M8. Otherwise, it's just a toy.
Except for the professionals under us- what else than a toy is any camera???:confused: :confused: :confused:
Except for the professionals under us- what else than a toy is any camera???:confused: :confused: :confused:
An expensive toy, but a toy none the less. I'm not getting my M8 till next week and I feel kind of left out not being able to take "banding" test pictures. I have all kinds of theories!:rolleyes:
this to will pass
Rex
AShearer
11-05-2006, 14:23
Can somebody please tell me about a consumer product that does not lose value from it's MSRP? I'd like to know so I can buy whatever it is.
The comparison's to computers are good ones. A LOT of computers got purchased in the past decade, all the while the whole buying universe was well aware that the value was going to plummet.
And, please don't tell me how the value of vintage M3's after inflation has held up. That's not what I'm talking about.
How much is a NEW M7, $3500. Maybe you can buy one for $3,000 somewhere? How much is a used M7 worth, even in mint condition?
Nachkebia
11-05-2006, 14:52
Personaly I don`t like the fact that so meany people bought M8 but none posted nothing valuable yet! everybody is posting how sharp and flat images are! wou wou how amazingly sharp is that! woow amazing!
I just hope the batteries wern't made by SONY!:)
The only reasons to buy the M8 are if you spend enough on film (and don't like film) to warrant the 2x more expensive-than-an-m7 pricetag of the M8 AND if you really wish to exit the whole film/developing/scanning process. These two things might render the aging technology factor unimportant. If you spend enough on film in two years to make up for the replacement cost of the digital technology, then it might make sense to buy the M8. Otherwise, it's just a toy.
I completely disagree with this reasoning. There are two scenario's:
Either one is an amateur, in that case, once the initial financial parameters of affordability and priorities are set, the only consideration is what I would venture to call " fun per buck". Strictly it is not necessary to take one photograph with the camera to fulfill that criterium, depending on one's inclination.
Or one is a (semi) pofessional. On the surface the cost and return per shot would seem to be the only consideration. However, as a professional who uses technical tools, I can testify that that is by no means the most important aspect. The pleasure of using fine equipment for eight or more hours per day cannot be expressed in terms of money. If one wants to rationalize: what price can be put on the avoidance of a burnout. In my profession there are many instances of investments that bring no monetary return, but are extremely valuable for both the customer and the user as intanglibles. I cannot imagine that the photographic profession is much different.
A Scrooge-like view of life will result in the conclusion that a cell-phone and 10p prints are the cheapest and thus best way to render images that will satisfy 95% of the public and would therefore be the most cost-efficient and desirable. I think 99.9% of the members here will disagree.
.... and peole will still do their best to defend their purchase, this is what I find unbelievable .... after a day and a half it is still the best camera I owned ... !!!! boy it may be the best, but his only ever camera.....
try taking a 2500 asa low light ... and see what you think then
Why should I? I do own a tripod....
it doesn't make magnificent pictures
I always thought the camera was just the tool, and that the photographer was the one supposed to make the magnificent pictures - more fool me...:rolleyes:
Personaly I don`t like the fact that so meany people bought M8 but none posted nothing valuable yet! everybody is posting how sharp and flat images are! wou wou how amazingly sharp is that! woow amazing!
Yes! I have seen mostly garbage pictures form the M8... will the real Leica photographers please stand up.. please stand up..
Why should I? I do own a tripod....
I always thought the camera was just the tool, and that the photographer was the one supposed to make the magnificent pictures - more fool me...:rolleyes:
Then don't go around and make posts proclaiming the M8 will capture the best image of all small factor digital cameras..
okay i should clarify, it was your perceived proclaimation.. many others will agree
with me.
Then don't go around and make posts proclaiming the M8 will capture the best image of all small factor digital cameras..
Please quote the posts where I said THAT...or stop trolling.
okay i should clarify, it was your perceived proclaimation.. many others will agree with me.
Sorry mate- that is a bit weak I would say, and an incorrect perception.
Lynn Ross
11-05-2006, 16:36
Well! me being an amateur and not wanting to go into the realms of darkroom at my age, I have the lowly RD-1 and really am having fun with it ... having spent all the I can on this camera and a lens for it ... the photo's and the very gracious people here on this forum are what I wanted to have a RF for and the nice size ... so after that here is a site that give some of you the M8 feel
And I'm going to hold on to my new camera till it becomes a legend and brings me back far more than I paid for it :)
http://inmotion.magnumphotos.com/essays/color.aspx
Lynn
This thread is hysterical! I've heard this all before in a completely different realm. I "used to be" a cycling junkie and about 5 years ago bought a ("the") high end Italian bike- flavor of the month- a Colnago Carbonissimo. Others may argue about the definitiveness of the statement; but none would argue that is is a superlative bike.
I am not a professional cyclist, nor a professional photographer. However, I do troll around forums looking for like-minded enthusiasts. So a few years ago, I was electronically castigated for spending $9K on a bike to look like a Euro-poseur only to finish close to the back of the peloton on the most expensive bike. I responded that the "winner" was the one who finished with the biggest smile on his face- and that was probably me, close to last place.
So what does this have to do with the M8? First, do the math- $5K body + $2-5 for the new lens (who could resist?) approximately equals "the" bike. Second. Rational? Of course not. Not the point. I use Leica microscopes every day in my work. Are they better than Nikon or Olympus or Zeiss? Probably not- but I love them. Third, the culture. Leica is Leica. Seems a little better for most things, a little worse for others. But if it inspires you to your best performance, then it "is" the best- for you. Like my wife and family (but they are mine.)
Hey, enjoy the toys...:)
Personaly I don`t like the fact that so many people bought M8 but none posted nothing valuable yet!
Why should that surprise you? I take more than 5,000 pictures per year, and at the end of the year I feel lucky if three of them are really good.
Probably many of the people on RFF are better photographers than I am -- but even if someone's "batting average" were five times better than mine, that would mean it would still take him/her about 1,000 shots to get three good ones to post.
I wouldn't be so tough as Nachkebia , but the banding, noise, techy discussion seems to miss the point - regardless, this is an instrument that should put us closer to catching the exiting stuff, not sunsets (which, if you miss it, you can try again tomorrow!, except ofcourse in washington, where you may have to wait a month.)
Maybe drop the spec discussion and see shots where a small RF and top quality lens catches something a galumphy SLR would miss (even with AF!)
I look forward to faster lens use, available light (and I don't mean conference halogens) and the real trick - faster focus in a dynamic situation.
Show them. We'll know them, then we will see the real value of this camera.
i do'nt know what that would be,but somethiog like, say, a snowmobile crack up, early season, on grass, maybe in florida THAT would be different!
I will be in Portland tomorrow and if the weather cooperates, I should be able to catch some of the weird Portland natives. Like they say in Potterville (Portland) "Keep Portland weird"
Things I don't like about the M8:
1. It is digital.
2. Its price.
Now let's move on.
Raid
How about this thread...
It wasn't that long ago that I felt like alone in the digital wilderness when I expressed my disappointment with the M8 back around Photokina time.
I caught some crap when I wrote about the shutter sound, the covering, etc.
Now I have had an M8 for two days.
I still hate the hollow, empty sound of the shutter, think I have a solution for the covering (TBA), BUT...!
I like the thing. I'm glad to have bought one. It may even truly change my approach to photography.
>Yes! I have seen mostly garbage pictures form the M8... will the real Leica
>photographers please stand up.. please stand up..
Give us time... Great art sometimes takes more than two days... :)
Give us time... Great art sometimes takes more than two days... :)
I thought great photographs took about 1/250th of a second :D
Things I don't like about the M8:
1. It is digital.
2. Its price.
Now let's move on.
Raid
Come on Raid, this is a forum about digital Leica's. I respect you not liking those, but why post here then or even read the threads...? And where should we move on to and still stay OT:confused:
Come on Raid, this is a forum about digital Leica's. I respect you not liking those, but why post here then or even read the threads...? And where should we move on to and still stay OT:confused:
Jaap: I did not mean it that way. This is, as you said, a forum for digital cameras. I read the comments, and I did not like the complaining about small things for the M8. While my personal choice in to stay with film, I respect your choice to go digital. With "let's move on" I meant that people should not whine but move on if they don't like something.
While I don't like digital photography for myself right now, I am interested in digital photography done by other people. I want to see what they like or dislike.
Sorry for the unclear posting, Jaap.
Raid
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