"Cheap" 35mm lens for M2

[arthur2]

Hi everyone!

I am looking for a 35mm lens for my M2. Unfortunately, I don't have that much money to spend at the moment. I have done a little research on budget alternatives and have narrowed the possibilities down to the following:

- Leica Summaron 35/2.8 (used)
- Canon 35/2.0 (used)
- Voigtländer 35/2.5 (new)
- Voigtländer Ultron 35/1.7 (used or new)

Which of those would you chose or are there any better options I haven't considered? Or should I wait and save for a Summicron?

Thanks in advance for your help! :)

Arthur

[RML]

Arthur, without knowing what you want to do with the lens any recommendations are based on our preferences. :) Do you really need f1.7 or is f2.5 fast enough? Do you prefer razor sharp images or images with a little softness for portraits? Do you want chocolat cream bokeh or don't you care?

[RML]

How about the Jupiter-12 35/2.8?

[rover]

I think the good news is that all 4 are very good. The Ultron will give you speed and really sharp images. The Skopar is very good and cheap. The Summaron will match the M2 to a "T." And the Canon is also highly thought of, but a little bit rear and harder to find.

[arthur2]

RML,

I use the Leica mainly for street photography. I also own a Canon SLR and some lenses, including a 35mm lens. However, I often prefer the Leica because it's much more unobtrusive, silent, smaller etc. But I find the 50mm Elmar (my only lens for the M2 right now) to be a little too long for my taste.

Of course the faster the lens, the better. Flare-resistance is important for me as well (the Elmar I have is not flare-resistant at all). I just would like to have a general purpose lens that delivers good quality.

[ddimaria]

Artur2, I would be careful buying Voightlander lenses used without some kind of return policy. I own a few VC's, some are simply perfect, while others I have had to return because of bad coatings. I don't know if others have had this experience but it seems to me that Voightlander has poor quality controll. Having said that, once you get a good sample, you should be quite happy with either VC. I prefer the handling of the 35/2.5 over the Ultron which I find to be a bit awkward.

DD

[SolaresLarrave]

Good combination: a Summaron with fast film. The Ultrons have a well-known problem: they sometimes fall apart (literally) when the front ring comes undone because the glue (yes!) simply gives in.

I like the 35mm focal length, and the Leica glass, although a bit vintage, should hold well. Your best choice would be the VC pancake-like glass with M-mount. The Ultron, as I said, may surprise you in performance (extremely good) and built (not so good, from what I've read).

Good luck and have fun shopping! :D

[doubs43]

You might also consider the 35mm f/3.5 Elmar LTM lens and an adapter. While the Summaron is likely better, the Elmar isn't to be sneezed at and it makes a very small package indeed.

Walker

[peter_n]

Arthur I use the little CV 35/2.5 which is an excellent lens for street photography. I shopped it against a Summicron 35/2 and a Konica M-Hexanon 35/2.

Optically it is great - good sharpness and the OOF area isn't bad. Lens is just a little slow but you can compensate for that by using faster film, and you don't need the shallow DOF afforded by a really fast lens for street shooting. I have the pancake which has 1/2 aperture click stops and is built like a brick. Best feature is a very short throw from close-up to infinity - focusing is very quick! :)

Attached pic was taken with Neopan 400 on a very dull and rainy day. The subjects were 0.9M from the camera, which is the closest focusing distance for the pancake version of this lens. The "classic" version has a closest focusing distance of 0.7M and is optically identical to the pancake.

[SolaresLarrave]

Manolo, a fellow in Photo.net had an Ultron, and his lens simply started to fall apart. When he mentioned it a couple of Ultron owners said they had had problems with their glass, so he posted a tutorial about how to fix the problem.

Granted, the number of users who didn't have problems was by far larger, which leads me to believe this problem was fixed in later models.

Now... Leica lenses falling apart? Haven't heard of it so much as about these lenses having problems with the aperture rings (particularly the 'cron 50/2), which suddenly become very loose.

Anyway, Manolo's advice to look up Gandy's website is really on the dot. My knowledge is pretty limited to what I've read in other forums, and, here I knock on wood, not based on first hand experience.

[Brian Sweeney]

I paid under $100 for a Nikkor 3.5cm F3.5 in LTM and $150 for a Canon 35mm F2.8 in LTM. Joe got his Canon 35 F2.8 for $125. This and an M-Mount adapter gives you a great cheap classic lens.

Shot with my Nikkor. (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/5303/size/big/sort/1/cat/500)

More shots with the Nikkor. (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php/cat/691)

And a lot with the Canon 35mm F2.8 (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php/cat/664)

I also have the Summaron 35mm F2.8, but it cost a few times what these two lenses did. Same with the Nikkor 3.5cm F2.5.

For the money, I would go with the Canon 35mm F2.8. If you want something better, save for a more expensive lens and resell the Canon at that time, With the reputation that it is getting, you will get your money back if you can get it at what I and Joe did.

[taffer]

I'm simply in love with my CV 35/2.5 lens. Beautifully compact, I have the now discontinued pancake version as well.

If you can find a nice used one, probably will take you to $150-$200. It's probably my most used lens and my all-time favorite.

[VictorM.]

Don't overlook the 40/2 Summicron and M-Rokkor-the 35mm frame lines on my M4-2 are only slightly wider than the image. I have also used the first VC 35/2.5 Pancake and didn't like it's slippery focus ring or it's light fall-off. The Canon 35/1.8 is really good and until recently my first choice for the M4-2 (and the M2 before it. The "look" of the b&w prints is better than the CV pancake. It's also just as sharp unless you shoot test charts.The only really bad 35mm lens I've had was the Canon 35/3.2. It was soft until f/11! And it was mint when I bought it, no signs of use at all. But overall, I'd recommend looking at the 40mm choices before prices get much higher.

[Allen Gilman]

Hi Arthur,

I'm another w/ the CV pancake and it is a sweeeeet lens. Nice and compact. Can't beat it for the price.

[arthur2]

Thanks so much everyone for all your replies, you have been extremely helpful! :)

One question concerning the Ultron: On cameraquest I have read that since this lens is quite big it intrudes into the viewfinder. Is this a problem for those of you who use this lens? Is it possible to use a hood? How about the other lenses I have listed above, do they have the same problem?

I have also found this Canon 35/2 lens on German eBay (I live in Austria) => Link (http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3867870158&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT). What do you think of it and how much would you pay?

[rover]

The Ultron is not a problem. It intrudes a little into the viewfinder, but so does a Summicron with hood. Not enough to be an issue at all.

[scoop]

The suggestion of a Russian Jupiter 12 35mm/f2.8 in LTM is a good one. This lens is at least as sharp as the 35mm/f2.8 Summaron and is usually available for under $50. You'll also need a LTM to Leica bayonet adapter - the generic ones from B&H seem to be the least expensive, to include second hand ones on eBay.

[SolaresLarrave]

The Russian Jupiter's rear element set off all kinds of alarms in me... but that's because I wanted one for my M6TTL (whose meter would have been blocked). I think it's a worthy element to add in an inventory if you're shooting an M2.

Regarding the Ultron's bulk... its intrusion in the VF is something you can live with. Now, if it blocked the rangefinder window... you'd be in trouble.

Rest, don't worry, my Hexanon partially blocks the viewfinder, but the rangefinder window is always free, and the same applies to the Ultron.

There you go. Ready to shop now?

[doubs43]

Originally posted by SolaresLarrave
The Russian Jupiter's rear element set off all kinds of alarms in me...
Me too. The problem I have is having to either carry an extra rear lens cover for my other lenses or swapping between three lenses if I've put the deep Jupiter cover on one lens and then want to use yet another lens in it's place. The extra normal cap is probably the best solution and takes up the least room.

Then again, if used on the M Leicas, who has a deep M cap? I suppose two plastic M caps could be glued together with the bottom cut out of the first one to create enough depth to handle the Biogon-type rear elements.

Me? I'd prefer to stay with an Elmar or Summaron or CV pancake lens I think. A lot less trouble.

Walker

[bruenhilde]

My VC 35mm f/2.5 is still in one piece, despite boxer vibrations of my bike. It looks nice
and compact on any LTM Leica (my is 50 years old IIIf). Next VC lens on my wish list is VC 21mm f/4, but prices in Europe are ridiculously high :-((...

This picture was made last summer (IIIf + VC 35mm f/2.5) somewhere in Julian Alps...

Regards, B.

[scoop]

With the large difference in price between the J12 and the Summaron, for example, there would be quite an incentive for improvising a deep rear lens cap for the M bayonet.

My suggestion would be a plastic M rear cap glued to a plastic (closed end) pipe cap.

[doubs43]

Originally posted by scoop
With the large difference in price between the J12 and the Summaron, for example, there would be quite an incentive for improvising a deep rear lens cap for the M bayonet.

My suggestion would be a plastic M rear cap glued to a plastic (closed end) pipe cap.
And an excellent suggestion it is, too. Plastic pipe of the correct size is cheap and there would be no need to waste an M-cap. Good thinking! :)

Walker

[Roman]

alex-photo (Ebay) has cheap original rear lens-caps for the J-12!

[RML]

That is a great idea for a custom-made M-mount rear cap for the J12!

[ddimaria]

The plastic tubes that 35mm film come in fit perfectly over the rear element of the J-12.

[arthur2]

Hi again everyone,

I finally made a decision and ordered a Voigtländer 35/2.5 Color Skopar Classic from camerquest.com.

I had a hard deciding between the 35/2.5 and the 35 Ultron... Eventually I decided on the Skopar because of
a) price
b) size
c) closer minimum focus distance (0.7m)
d) focusing knob (I really like the knob on my 50mm Elmar)

Just wanted to thank everyone again, your advice has been very helpful! :)

[alfa]

good choice, I recently ordered it as my first rangefinder lens also
the filter diameter is also adequate to pass on to the summicron later ;)

still haven't received it yet and can't tell you a lot about the others but it was my choice also :P

[peter_n]

Good choices guys! I think you will love the lens! :)

[kafir2]

What an interesting question, the 35mm on M2: the all time classic.
I'd go for a Summaron 2,8 - current issue of LHSA viewfinder rated it very high. Should be available on ebay for som 200 €.
Second chance a pre-aspherical summicron, I bought mine for 450 € on ebay in Germany.
Best for M2 would be the 8 element summicron, but not exaclty cheap!
Voigtlander lens are very good for the price but has no resale value compared to Leica.
I would never buy a new CV instead of a used Leitz
ciao
k

[arthur2]

kafir2, concerning the resale value of Voigtlander lenses:

I watched a CV 35/2.5 and two Ultrons on German ebay, the 35/2.5 was sold for 250 € and the Ultrons for about 313 € and 352 €.
A local shop here in Vienna (www.leicashop.com) sells the 35/2.5 new for 400 € and the Ultron I think is 600 €! At www.cameraquest.com I payd 220 $ for the 35/2.5...

[Roman]

Everytime I walk by LeicaShop with my Bessa R & CS 35/2.5 in my parka pocket, I have to chuckle when I look at their ridiculous prices... I think, my whole Voigtländer setup (new R & 35mm, used 25 & 90mm) cost less than a new R without lens there.
I mean, they are nice guys in there, very friendly & helpfuland all, and it's great that they opened the WestLicht museum, but their pricing is really out of the way, even more so with used stuff, the Voigtländer stuff is only slightly cheaper elsewhere in Europe (www.fotopartner.de and www.robertwhite.com seem to be the best places inside the EU)...
That's why most of the stuff goes for more money used on German Ebay than it would be new (plus shipping and taxes and all) from CameraQuest .

Roman

[arthur2]

Hi Roman,

Nice to meet a fellow Austrian here! :)
I agree with what you said about prices at Leicashop, I don't know who would buy from them considering the prices at cameraquest and the Dollar-Euro exchange rate the way it is at the moment...

I actually live right around the corner from Leicashop and Westlicht gallery, I'm already looking forwward to the Alberto Venzago Vodoo exhibition (http://www.westlicht.at/index.php?id=31144) in march!

By the way, did you order your Voigtländer stuff from cameraquest? If so, how long did the shipping take?

Schöne Grüße!

[Roman]

Servus,

well, I live a few bus stops up from LeicaShop (across the Gürtel) ;)
My Bessa R and CS 35 took about a month (but that was with the 'no postage when ordering while Stephen Gandy was at Photokina'-deal, so I guess he had to send a lot of backorders, and he used the cheapest shipping option); my Bessa L that I ordered just recently took about 10 days (and you never know for how many days the guys at Landstraßer Gürtel (= customs office) are responsible... :(

Roman

[Roman]

Oh, and BTW, the Japanese language option on their homepage might give you a clue who their used equipment is priced for...

Roman

[Roman]

Hmmm, this is just a shot in the dark, but you aren't by chance the Arthur who is the boyfriend of one of the Sankofi sisters (and also lives around the corner from Westlicht)?

Roman

[arthur2]

Roman, thanks for the information - Danke! :)

Oh, and BTW, the Japanese language option on their homepage might give you a clue who their used equipment is priced for...

Haha, you might have a point here!

Hmmm, this is just a shot in the dark, but you aren't by chance the Arthur who is the boyfriend of one of the Sankofi sisters (and also lives around the corner from Westlicht)?

No, never heard of the "Sankofi sisters"... Funny coincidence, though!

[denishr]

Oh, and BTW, the Japanese language option on their homepage might give you a clue who their used equipment is priced for...

Roman

One relatively "reasonably" priced source for Leicas was Foto Mayrhofer in Salzburg (http://www.fotomayrhofer.com/enter.html ), but it seems like their prices have gone up in the last month or so.... Only a few months ago they were very reasonable, compared to other Austrian on-line sources.

Another, which still has reasonable prices, is in Graz - Classic Camera (http://www.classiccamera.at) - that's where I bought my first Leica (M2 and Summitar 50/2 kit for about 700 EUR)...

Check out their site, you might find something interesting. I've never been disappointed in anything purchased from them.

Denis

[arthur2]

Hi again,

I just collected the package from cameraquest from the customs office... :)

Here's a quick shot of my new lens attached to the M2. From USA to Austria in 7 days - not bad at all!
Thanks again for your help everyone, I'm off shooting... :D

[Doug]

Good looking combination! Have fun...