View Full Version : My Leica IIIc -- A Lost Cause?
About 15 years ago, when I knew even less about photography than I do now, I started haunting antique camera shows in New York, and ended up buying a Leica IIIc, three LTM lenses, and a Leica universal finder. The camera body, it turned out, while in generally decent shape, needed repairs (mainly for a light leak) and an overhaul. These were done by Don Goldberg, and it now works fine.
But whenever I've used it, I haven't seen the kind of results I expected, and I've gradually learned a possible reason why. In my hasty examination of the lenses in the shows, they looked fine. But more recently I've looked at them under a strong light, and it's not a pretty sight. There is considerable fungus on the 35mm/f3.5 Summaron, haze and small scratches on the collapsible 50mm/f3.5 Elmar, and light haze on the 90mm/f4 Elmar (the best of the three). Cleaning hasn't helped at all.
So I'd like to ask a few questions from the IIIc/LTM owners reading this. First, are these kinds of defects normal in LTM lenses of this age, or could I have done much better? Second, will lenses with these problems cause the low contrast photos I've gotten with the camera? And finally, if they do, should I just write the camera off as a lost cause and sell the whole kit on eBay for whatever I can get, since I've read that repairing lenses with such defects, even where possible, is an expensive proposition? Maybe I'd just be better off to start all over again with something in much better shape.
Thanks in advance for whatever advice you can offer on this.
Sherry Krauter
and see this
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28964&highlight=krauter
VictorM.
10-21-2006, 04:52
Don't feel bad, everybody buys lenses with problems. Even when they know what to look for. A less expensive alternative to cleaning your existing lenses would be to buy a couple of Russian lenses. They're cheap and, from what I've seen, good.
i will keep the IIIc if you had it clad and that all the speeds are fine and theres no light leak left. Then there are nice lenses for the ltm leitz
Hello:
You have an enviable classic ltm kit. CLA for all three lenses will cost about what a single modern CV 50mm would. A Russian lens or a CV will make you good to go at once.
yours
Frank
VictorM.
10-21-2006, 05:12
Another thought: if you do decide to sell, list it here first; a DAG-cla'd body will go fast and bring as much as ebay with less pain.
go for some russian glass. A Jupiter-8 or Jupiter-3 for a fast 50mm. For a Elmar clone go for the Industar 50 or Industar 22, maybe even a Fed-50 if it's cheap. Jupiter 12 for wide angle. They'll be muuuch cheaper than getting Leitz lenses, and will mean you have something good to shoot with until you sort out the other lenses.
Film dino
10-21-2006, 05:59
The IIIc is a fine platform for LTM lenses- Leitz, Canon, VC.... It'd be a shame if you disposed of the camera because of issues with the lenses you've got now.
David
Of my 3 Leitz lenses, the Summarit shows the most haze/scratching/coating defects, but it still seems ok, a little soft.
The Elmar 50 and 90 are awesome, and I prefer the 50 to the CV Nokton. Neither of these lenses show any defects. The came to me that way.
Don't throw the baby (IIIc) out with the bathwater! (fungusy/scratched lenses)
But if you wanted to unload it all cheap, I'm willing :D :D
I agree with what's been said. With no lenses at all, the Leica is still a keeper. A clean Industar collapsable [22 or 50] attached will provide very enjoyable results at pocket-change investment. This will at least help you determine if the Leica is for you.
For all you saying I should hang on to the camera body -- I only thought of selling it because it would make the lenses easier to sell, since a buyer would then have a complete IIIc kit with a nice lens assortment. Otherwise, of course I would agree with you.
Try ordering a Jupiter 12 from Fedka, and use it on the IIIc with the Universal Finder. Go out and shoot a few rolls and see if your opinion of the camera has improved. I use a J12 on my IIIf as a favorite general purpose combination. I considered the Summaron, but had heard tales of the haze problem and decided on the J12.
Jim N.
The lenses would not be hard to sell ... depending how much you want for them of course! Absolutely no point in selling the IIIc though ... a couple of hundred dollars US in the bank is no substitute for the beauty of a screwmount leica body ... even if you just sit it on the mantlepiece! :cool:
Hello:
It cost me $200US to put a IIIb and lens kit in working order (DAG). The Snapshot Skopar seems made for it. The Elmar 50mm F3.5 is equally neat. These combinations make the M3 seem a beast in comparison.
yours
Frank
For all you saying I should hang on to the camera body -- I only thought of selling it because it would make the lenses easier to sell, since a buyer would then have a complete IIIc kit with a nice lens assortment. Otherwise, of course I would agree with you.
Hi Carl,
Acually I think it would be easier to sell individual items rather than a full kit. For sure the seller can do better that way too.
And offer them here first, okay?
John Shriver
10-21-2006, 15:50
Those sorts of defects in the lenses aren't normal, but neither are they uncommon. There's a good chance that a proper internal cleaning by DAG will get the Summaron and 90mm Elmar in order. The front lens of collapsible Elmars can get pretty beat, there may be less hope for it. (Too many cleanings with a necktie.)
Don't expect these lenses to be as sharp or as contrasty as a typical 1970's Japanese SLR lens. But stopped down a few stops, they are fine lenses, compact and lightweight. (OK, the 90mm isn't lightweight.)
Hi Carl,
I agree with all of the above. I bought a iiic with a Summitar 50/f2 collapsible fairly cheap on eBay, and of course, it was in need of a CLA. The slow shutter speeds didn't work at all and the lens gave extremely soft results (though I could hardly see any haze when looking through it). A good clean-up later, the camera works fine now and feels like the legendary precision machinery everybody raves about. The lens is now as people describe it: sharp when stopped down, nice and soft when wide open, i.e. perfect for portraits. I love the combo (though my iiic is very hard to focus sometimes) and I don't regret the purchase nor the CLA. Get the lenses cleaned up and enjoy your combo for a long time to come !
Peter.
With all these words of encouragement, I've sent off an e-mail to a repair outfit called Focal Point Lens (recommended on some photo Websites), asking for an estimate to clean all three lenses. If it's within my budget, I'll ask them to tackle it. Otherwise, I'm afraid they'll have to be sold. Keeping my fingers crossed, for I do want to keep the lenses and finally see what the fuss is all about!
richard_l
10-23-2006, 03:15
There are many excellent LTM lenses. My 35mm/3.5 LTM Summaron is almost pristine, and there are some fine new CV LTM lenses. For older lenses, always inspect them with a strong flashlight/torch beam, as fungus, haze, and separations do not always show up very well under ordinary lights. The IIIC is a fine camera. I would suggest keeping it.
Richard
clintock
10-23-2006, 06:27
With all these words of encouragement, I've sent off an e-mail to a repair outfit called Focal Point Lens (recommended on some photo Websites), asking for an estimate to clean all three lenses. If it's within my budget, I'll ask them to tackle it. Otherwise, I'm afraid they'll have to be sold. Keeping my fingers crossed, for I do want to keep the lenses and finally see what the fuss is all about!
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Leica/
Focal Point is quite a few time zones away from the UK, thus you may also wish to check with Luton via the above link. If nothing else, the web site is good, if you can stand the pop-ups! I believe a shop will need to see the lenses to make a proper estimate, as the repair can vary from simple disassembly and cleaning, to complex fungus removal and possible polishing and re-coating.
Suggest you need hoods for these lens if you are to get good results. they are old, and a hood will also protect them from further physical damage - finger prints and consequent cleaning.
CRR Luton have been good (for me).
The 35mm I'd send off ASAP as the fungus may be resent and the lens may still be ok, after a clean. You can get hoods for the other two and see if you can live with them as they are. CRR do recoat the front elements of Elmars but with a hood you may be ok.
Only fondlers recoat lens, CRR make a good business recoating, as there are lots of fondlers and the Leitz glass was soft.
The IIIc wont go on for ever save for a refurb, at the time consider asking for the IIIf film locating finger enhancement, if the IIIC is not a collectors piece, lots of IIIc wont be original, if your is nice leave it as it is.
Noel
I was wondering.... other than a clean, can I get the RF window's any brighter? I know Luton resilvers/replaces M mirrors, but is there anything he can do for a IIIc rangefinder??
Film dino
10-23-2006, 09:23
I was wondering.... other than a clean, can I get the RF window's any brighter? I know Luton resilvers/replaces M mirrors, but is there anything he can do for a IIIc rangefinder??
Yep, CRR/ Peter Grisaffi routinely (usually as part of a general service) replaces the beam spliiter on IIIs, bringing the RF & finder windows to much the same brightness- scroll down a bit on the main page.. http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Leica/ .. on the right
David
flashover
10-23-2006, 09:24
I was wondering.... other than a clean, can I get the RF window's any brighter? I know Luton resilvers/replaces M mirrors, but is there anything he can do for a IIIc rangefinder??
I got the orange RF filter from DAG. The cost was quite a surprise as I have seen them selling for 40-50 dollars. Dag was 25 plus shipping. The RF is dim in my IIIa and it actually make an improvement. At the last camera show I picked up an early Canon and it made my Leica look bright. I think the size of the RF viewfinder is one of the drawbacks of this series. I just bought a 50mm bight line finder to use on mine. I love my III series cameras. They also work well with a J12 or J8.
Just wanted to loop back with all the people who gave me helpful advice on this thread, which I started. I sent my dirty lenses off to Focal Point for cleaning in November and finally got them back a week ago. While not perfect (I wasn't expecting this), it's a huge improvement. I also decided to do something I've wanted to do for a long time, which is to buy a Leica IIIf. I know, I know, it's practically the same as my IIIc (especially since I rarely take flash pictures). It's irrational, but I had to have one -- and I found a nice one on the Bay. Over the weekend I finally got to test my cleaned lenses with my new camera. What can I say -- awesome! Lovely results, and the camera feels just right. So now I'll sell my IIIc to pay for this extravagance and begin exploring what a LTM really can do with lenses that aren't encrusted with crud. Can't wait...
MichaelHarris
01-17-2007, 14:39
Good move Carl, Focal Point has cleaned all my Leica screw mount lenses ahd does a wonderful job. I even had him do a 135 Hektor. That lens stopped down is alot better than it gets credit for.
Good for you Carl. Enjoy the IIIf!
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