View Full Version : Your vote for Leica's Next Lenses
Mark Norton
10-08-2006, 01:00
If you could specify the next prime M lenses Leica produces, which would you choose? Keep in mind that going faster costs more than going wider. You can vote for more than 1...
How about any affordable lens?
Don't play with buttons at 5am, I have to keep reminding myself of that.
Mark, I tried to merge this and the other thread you started under the same title. I hope you posted the second wanting the poll. Um, I ended up deleting the other one. Sorry.
I just want to be able to afford the current lenses :p Actually that's what I'd like to see next: a really cheap 35mm summicron...
J. Borger
10-08-2006, 02:59
Even as a person who has the M8 on order and uses a R-D1 ... i see no need for future new lens.
Fast wide angles are the kind of lenses i have zero to none interest in ...... i do not even use the slow ones .. 35 mm (=50mm considering crop) is where the action starts for me :)
The next lens should be an updated ASPH Summicron 50mm lens. The Noctilux also might be updated using aespherical lenses.
The 28/1.4 would be very difficult to make. See the price and size of the actual 28/2 ASPH...
The response of Leica to the gap in 35mm FoV lenses is the new Elmarit. They need to develop cheaper and smaller lenses (thanks to ASPH designs).
R.
spysmart
10-08-2006, 03:55
The Noctilux also might be updated using aespherical lenses.
R.
That would cause the same degree of mass panic within the forum as the M8, with bank balances groaning under the pressure.
But it would be so good :cool:
How about a 60mm f/2.8 Macro-Elmar with built-in reflex finder, as on the old Pan-Cinor cine zoom lenses? No clunky Visoflex and you could still use the rangefinder for non-macro focusing.
The Noctilux also might be updated using aespherical lenses.The Noctilux sells in such small numbers that it wouldn't be worth the investment. It would probably also completely change the charactaristics of the lens which is currently unique in the Leica line.
back alley
10-08-2006, 08:42
How about any affordable lens?
the cv 28/1.9 would be a good lens...
and the new zeiss 18...
the cv 21/4...
;)
I think the current lens line is just fine. A 15 2.8 would be a wasted expense considering the new tri Elmar is available, and at f4 it is plenty fast. If someone really needs a 15, The Zeiss 15 would be a great choice. Leica could make one of its own and it would be the equal of the Zeiss, but not neccessarily better.
There is no need to change the Noctilux as its characteristics are unique and just fine. A 28 f1.4 would have too large a front element. Ditto a 24 f 2.0.
In other words, be happy because Leica lenses and Zeiss lenses are the finest in the world.
I think the current lens line is just fine. A 15 2.8 would be a wasted expense considering the new tri Elmar is available, and at f4 it is plenty fast. If someone really needs a 15, The Zeiss 15 would be a great choice. Leica could make one of its own and it would be the equal of the Zeiss, but not neccessarily better.
There is no need to change the Noctilux as its characteristics are unique and just fine. A 28 f1.4 would have too large a front element. Ditto a 24 f 2.0.
In other words, be happy because Leica lenses and Zeiss lenses are the finest in the world.
AndyPiper
10-08-2006, 12:02
As an M8 user-to-be, I'd like a fast (f/2.8) 16mm. My C/V 15 at least doesn't vignette nearly as much as it did on the R-D1 - but I could still use the extra stop and a half for low-light documentary work. This is really the only 'hole' in my system that needs filling.
Phil_Hawkes
10-08-2006, 21:41
I have been aiming to have a selection of lenses that are separated by a multiple of around 0.7: 18mm, 25mm, 35mm, 50mm, 75mm, 90mm, 135mm. I have managed to find these, except the 18mm; currently, I have the CV 15mm instead of an 18mm.
I am an low light/available light guy, so I would obviously prefer my lenses to be as fast as possible. I would like to replace my ZM25/2.8 with an 24/2.0 or even 24/1.4 if at all possible. I would also like an 18/2.8. My CV15 hardly gets used... so I'm not convinced I would use an 18mm that much, but it would be nice to have the option.
Phil
Don't hold your breath waiting for a fast 24 or 25mm lens. The Leica 24/2.8 ASPH already has a 55mm filter size.
Pherdinand
10-09-2006, 07:04
Vote?:))
I don't think this is a matter of vote
but sure, one can dream:) one SHOULD dream:)
If they could make a lens that switched between 35 and 50mm while maintaining f/2.0 and reasonably small size, I'd be interested in that.
While the 90 AA is a great lens at distance shooting it reall suffers for head shots. Leica needs a new 90 AA with floating elements to improve close and wide apertures.
Summicron 50 needs an update and should be priced in the near of ZM Planar. Noctilux even more but this will hardly sell.
If a zoom lens is not [yet] possible with a rangefinder camera, then maybe a Tri-Summicron 35mm-50mm-90mm at an affordable price. Most people could get that lens only and maybe one CV wide angle lens. The other wish is a zoom lens with zooming rangefinder built-in.
The Noctilux also might be updated using aespherical lenses.
R.
:confused: :confused: :confused: The Noctilux is Leica's very first aspherical camera lens. It has two aspherical surfaces, which make the lens as expensive as it is, because they still need hand-polishing.
Leica 1.4/25mm already here (http://www.digitalkamera.de/Info/Zwei_Leica-Wechselobjektive_fuer_DSLRs_im_FourThirds-System_3550.asp) (text German)
so you'll need larger lens cases, I predict.
That's not Leica, that's Panasonic :p
That's not Leica, that's Panasonic :p
And you're not true with the Noctilux. :p :p
The original Noctilux design was aspherical with two aspherical surfaces. It was too expensive to produce, so it was replaced for final production by the current one. They maybe could build the original one with current technology, but the lens to be replaced without asph. elements is not so much less in quality to warrant the extra cost. As I said, the lenses must be hand-polished because they are too large for for instance blank-pressing.
MadMan2k
10-10-2006, 18:51
35mm Noct for M8 users would be good, but only if it worked on the film M also... On the other hand, people seem to love the vignetting, so if it vignetted on film it probably wouldn't on 1.3x too.
A new, heavily improved Noctilux would be possible today - but they need to sell enough of those, they rather improve lenses that are needed for more people (like the 1,4/50 or new R-WA).
Bigger aspherical lenses are cnc-turned (28-90mm, 90AA...) which takes aprox. 8h for one single surface because of the extreme tolerances (<1/1000mm)! I think Leica, Zeiss and Schneider are the only companies today that use this technology in serial production today.
None of the high-speed lenses wished here (2/24, 1,4/28) would sell under 3000€ and they were also very big - we're talking about Leica-quality-standards, lenses that show nearly their full perfomance at open apertures!
The most likely new M-lens would be a 1,4/75AA - it's one of the oldest lenses around and not as exotic as the Noctilux. Maybe they could even use this design to make a predecessor for the R80 (like they did with the 90AA)?
But all lenses are for the full Leica-format, 24mm x 36mm! Leica clearly said that. M8/DMR are just made because of todays technological restrictions - not because Leica wanted them with a crop-factor.
Pherdinand
10-11-2006, 03:03
OK. How about a non-full-frame lens, or lenses, as future Leica lenses. LOL. THAT would be a big nasty surprise, wouldn't it? But maybe not that strange in this digital era.
Gabriel M.A.
10-11-2006, 12:40
How about a fisheye? I mean, literally, a fisheye. It'd be the life of the party.
spysmart
10-11-2006, 15:03
A new, heavily improved Noctilux would be possible today - but they need to sell enough of those.....
I believe Leica would sell a surprising large amount of ASPH Noctiluxes ( certainly more than Zeiss will sell of its 15 f/2.8 and 85 f/2 lenses ) : provided it corrected, focus shift, some of the coma and loss of outer zone sharpness, whilst still maintaining attention to bokeh.
Canon's new 50 f/1.2L MTF graphs look a lot sharper, over a wider zone, than the Noctilux's rather poor MTF figures ( beyond the 6mm radius ).
Canon would still have a noise advantage over the M8, but Leica could do well if they closed the gap a little.
If a new ASPH 50mm Noctilux appeared, it would be on my shopping list ahead of a M8. I guess they must now have a design team free from the 28 and 16-21 just looking for something to do.:)
Mark Norton
10-11-2006, 16:39
The Noctilux is a real niche lens, designed 30 years ago, so it's not surprising modern lens designs are sharper. It's already the most expensive M lens (more so than the 16-18-21 without finder) so you do wonder how much a tweaked Nocti ASPH would cost.
My money is on them doing a 28mm f1.4 or a 24mm f2.
As I said, the lenses must be hand-polished because they are too large for for instance blank-pressing.
It's just a matter of capital investment, and technology. (And of course, sales made with it)
Canon made large aspherical lenses (both hand and machine polished) in the seventies already (1.2/55 ASPH.) -- and wasn't the big company back then what it is at present...
And at last, a matter of prestige as well. Leica lost on Canon. First Leica was 15 years late with the f/1. Then the FD 1.2/55 Asph. was the better lens.
cheers
It's just a matter of capital investment, and technology. (And of course, sales made with it)
Canon made large aspherical lenses (both hand and machine polished) in the seventies already (1.2/55 ASPH.) -- and wasn't the big company back then what it is at present...
And at last, a matter of prestige as well. Leica lost on Canon. First Leica was 15 years late with the f/1. Then the FD 1.2/55 Asph. was the better lens.
cheers
And a small matter of money the customer is willing to part with... These Canon lenses were not really cheap either. But very interesting.
The Noctilux is a real niche lens, designed 30 years ago, so it's not surprising modern lens designs are sharper. It's already the most expensive M lens (more so than the 16-18-21 without finder) so you do wonder how much a tweaked Nocti ASPH would cost.
My money is on them doing a 28mm f1.4 or a 24mm f2.
I would guess a 18 mm asph in the 2.8 to 3.5 range.
Mark Norton
10-12-2006, 20:20
It's just a matter of capital investment, and technology. (And of course, sales made with it)
Canon made large aspherical lenses (both hand and machine polished) in the seventies already (1.2/55 ASPH.) -- and wasn't the big company back then what it is at present...
And at last, a matter of prestige as well. Leica lost on Canon. First Leica was 15 years late with the f/1. Then the FD 1.2/55 Asph. was the better lens.
cheers
My Noctilux arrives today and I'm looking forward to it!
Enjoy that Noctilux. It's a unique lens, and very much worth of the coveting it brings out in owners.
Unless you don't like it. Then it's a Nausilux, but I'm sure you've read up on it.
Buy the darkest ND filter, throw 100 speed film in the camera, and go outside for daylight f/1 shooting. I did that for my last trip to Portugal and the pictures really are painterly.
Obviously, my vote would be the "35mm f/1..."
J
Mark Norton
10-13-2006, 21:14
Thanks. I think even at ISO 160 and 1/8000, that ND filter is going to be required. It's certainly big, heavy and difficult to focus on the R-D1, better on an M6 so I'm hopeful it will be fine on an M8.
On the Leica User site, I likened this lens to a sports car you keep in the garage to use on the weekends. Fun, different, but you wouldn't want to commute in it every day. This is a niche lens, no substitute for a "regular" 50mm, if anything not wide enough on an M8. It's the M equivalent of buying something extreme in dSLR land like a fish-eye or an ultra-long lens.
Harry Lime
10-18-2006, 09:13
The Noctilux is a real niche lens, designed 30 years ago, so it's not surprising modern lens designs are sharper. It's already the most expensive M lens (more so than the 16-18-21 without finder) so you do wonder how much a tweaked Nocti ASPH would cost.
My money is on them doing a 28mm f1.4 or a 24mm f2.
Regardless of the fact that the Noct was designed 30 years ago it still is by far the best and now only f1.0 lens out there. Most lenses in existence are based on designs that have changed little over the past 100 years.
The performance of the Noct is competitive with many f1.4 lenses and stopped down a little, it is very close in performance to the current generation 2/50 Summicron. You will also be hard pressed to find another lens that is basically 100% flare free.
I enjoyed shooting my Noct for almost two years, but eventually sold it because by M standards it was quite heavy and had a very long focus throw. I also didn't like the nearly perfect and somewhat sterile aesthetic of it's fingerprint; a result of the complete lack of flare.
HL
Harry Lime
10-18-2006, 09:18
The Noctilux sells in such small numbers that it wouldn't be worth the investment. It would probably also completely change the charactaristics of the lens which is currently unique in the Leica line.
Leica has also repeatedly stated that to improve the performance of the Noct they would have to resort to technology and materials that would push it's price into the stratosphere and it ain't cheap in its current incarnation.:)
HL
Harry Lime
10-18-2006, 09:20
:confused: :confused: :confused: The Noctilux is Leica's very first aspherical camera lens. It has two aspherical surfaces, which make the lens as expensive as it is, because they still need hand-polishing.
You are thinking of the first version of the Noct, the 1.2/50 model. BAck then ASPH elements were hand ground and extremely expensive to make. Nowadays they are stamped and polished.
The current 1/50 doesn't use any ASPH elements and is the better performer.
HL
Harry Lime
10-18-2006, 09:28
I just want cheaper lenses. Right now they are pricing themselves out of the market and cutting their own throat.
I have more Leica gear than I care to admit in public, so I am not shy about spending the money if need be. But nearly $3000 for a 2/28 is a little nuts,
even if it is the best 28 on the planet.
HL
boilerdoc2
10-18-2006, 11:57
If Leica were to come out with 50-75-90 Tri-Elmar that would great. Aperture f 4.0 of course.
Steve
The ZM 25/2.8. It may be a bit slow but the optics are outstanging.
If Leica were to come out with 50-75-90 Tri-Elmar that would great. Aperture f 4.0 of course.
Steve
echo your choice but perhaps a 75-90-135 f4. For my work, I need a little longer. :rolleyes: At 10.2mp I could always crop to a the 300mm FOV.
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