View Full Version : 90mm M advice
shodoman
10-05-2006, 14:00
I'm sure the advice questions get annoying after a while but I need RFF's expertise. I recently bought a new R3M with Heliar and love it, only problem is I really want a 90mm lens to go with that 1:1 viewfinder. I've read through Gandy's Leica M page and am overwhelmed. I don't wan't to spend more tha $500 but would like to jump into leica glass unless there is a better option. So what is my best bet?
Thanks,
Zak
-
The various Leica 90s are all good choices and some of the older ones are available for much less than $500. (I have a 1960-ish Elmarit and it's quite nice...cost $165.) The Voigtlander 90 is one of my favorite lenses and I regret selling it - really a sharp lens...with an M-adapter, it wouldn't run you much more than $350, I think.
35mmdelux
10-05-2006, 14:35
used tele-elmarit should cost $350 or so. Nice one on bay for $258 the other day. Or get a VC 90/3.5. Reports have it as excellent performer.
Last spring when I was 90 shopping this endorsement and samples convinced me to buy a 1965 vintage 90/2.8 Elmarit. I am very pleased.
I still favor my 90 2.8 elmarit after thirty eight years. I own an ltm elmar uncoated and have had both coated an non. It's a nice lens but prone to flare in both cases and not nearly as sharp as the 2.8 untill uou stop down a couple of stops. It has size in it's favor but not actual lens performance. I've owned a couple of 90 summicrons too and currently have the asph 90. The asph is a wonderful lens but I still like the look of the 2.8 1st version elmarit. The early 90 summicrons are OK but not great and rather large and heavy for the performance factor. They were OK when that was all there was but by todays standards they are rather lack luster. I porobably have owned three 2.8 elmarits over the years and have shot with a number of tele-elmarits. While the tele-elmarit is a fine lens I don't feel it stacks up with the regular elmarit and don't feel there is a bif enough gain in compactness to warrent the loss of performance with the tele. My vote is keep the 2.8 elmarit.
There are a number of elmarit examples in my gallery.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=5045
Good luck!
Andrew Touchon
10-05-2006, 15:10
I'm sure the advice questions get annoying after a while but I need RFF's expertise. I recently bought a new R3M with Heliar and love it, only problem is I really want a 90mm lens to go with that 1:1 viewfinder. I've read through Gandy's Leica M page and am overwhelmed. I don't wan't to spend more tha $500 but would like to jump into leica glass unless there is a better option. So what is my best bet?
Thanks,
Zak
-
You might want to investigate the 90mm F4 Minolta Rokkor lens. There are two different versions. The first version was made for the Leitz-Minolta CL and is single coated. The second version was made for the Minolta CLE and is multi-coated. Both take 40.5 filters. You should be able to find one of these lens in mint condition in the $250-$350 price range. The Rokkor lens that was made for The Leitz-Minolta CL is a Leica design. The Minolta Rokkor CLE lens is a slightly improved version. Either lens will provide excellent results.
Rich Silfver
10-05-2006, 15:36
Another vote for the 90/2.8 Elmarit (mine is from 1964).
Sample shots:
http://www.pbase.com/rsilfverberg/image/36899851.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/rsilfverberg/image/37466502.jpg
The lens:
http://www.pbase.com/rsilfverberg/image/34309925/medium.jpg
nikon_junkie
10-05-2006, 15:43
If you are interested I have a beaut 90 f/2 Cron I would sell for $500. I'm trying to raise money for a Noctilux.
How much are the Konica KM 90/2.8 lenses selling for now a days?
back alley
10-05-2006, 16:33
i got my 90/2.8 hex for about 400 cdn.
I like the "thin" Tele-Elmarit 90/2.8, especially if you plan on travelling with a 90. Can flare a little but a good hood fixes that and they cost around $450. This is an old one from my gallery here, either wide-open or very close to it:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffgallery/gallery/353/U353I1095886940.SEQ.0.jpg
shodoman
10-05-2006, 18:21
thanks guys. It seems like an elmarit might be the way to go without spending as much (always a good thing). Are there any other options other than ebay or keh? Ebay scares me and Keh has rediculous prices. Other than RFF ofcourse.
monochromejrnl
10-05-2006, 18:57
shot wide open... recently acquired and enjoying it... it's the Collapsible elmar-M - one of the least expensive, if not THE least expensive 90s available...
monochromejrnl
10-05-2006, 19:34
elmar-M collapsible 90/4 @ f4... TriX@1600 Diafine
Post deleted by posters request
I agree with those that recommend the Elmarit Version 1; it is difficult to best it for the money spent. For some things the Apo ASPH is unbeatable, but I really like the rendition of the Elmarit 1 for people pictures.
Another sample from the thin Tele-Elmarit, at f/2.8. I'd normally prefer to use my early Summicron 90 for this, but had not planned for the opportunity and just happened to have the 90/2.8 in the bag with me at the time.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffgallery/gallery/1665/U1665I1160139394.SEQ.0.jpg
I dunno, but I kinda like my 1946 90/4 Elmar. I paid $100 for it including the adaptor.
Kim Coxon
10-06-2006, 06:53
If you are not in a desparate hurry, I will soon be listing my Type II Elamarit Serial no 3462xxx in the classifieds as it is not getting a lot of use. I can't really justify a Tele-Elmarit and an Elmarit for the use they are getting.
Kim
merciful
10-06-2006, 07:08
If the limitations of the smaller maximum aperture aren't a concern, I strongly favour the original Elmar. Of course, I don't give a damn about flare, sharpness, or any of that jazz: I just want an old look.
TX at 800.
The Tele Elmarit is a great lens as well, and really small, just about the size
of your Heliar, maybe a bit thinner. In my experience, it is harder though
(more expensive) to find a good Tele Elmarit than a good Elmarit (I). The TE
tends to haze easily, see also Stephen's website. This was done with
the TE:
http://ferider.smugmug.com/photos/28840007-O.jpg
A bit off topic, but I love this shot Roland. So many possible captions keep coming to mind! :p
-Randy
like2fiddle
10-06-2006, 12:14
I love my 1961 90 Elmarit. It's the only 90 I've ever owned, so I can't compare it to any other lens, but since I like the results, I've never even considered looking for a different 90. Paid around $160.
If you end up considering a "thin" Tele-Elmarit (TE) make sure the serial nr. begins with a 3. Some earlier versions of that lens suffered from what became known as TE disease, an unexplained etching on the rear elements. See below for a PN thread comparing the Elmarit and TE:
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=002lwh
If you end up considering a "thin" Tele-Elmarit (TE) make sure the serial nr. begins with a 3. Some earlier versions of that lens suffered from what became known as TE disease, an unexplained etching on the rear elements. See below for a PN thread comparing the Elmarit and TE:
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=002lwh
Just to add a point of clarification, not all thin Tele-Elmarit lenses with serial numbers beginning with a 2 have this problem.
Just to add a point of clarification, not all thin Tele-Elmarit lenses with serial numbers beginning with a 2 have this problem.That's correct. I did say "some" but maybe I should have been a bit more explicit. I've seen several estimates bandied about on the internet, the range is that 5% to 10% of TEs sufferered from the malady.
shodoman
10-06-2006, 12:47
kim-I can wait, and would be intersted. I'll keep an eye out in the classifieds
Seriously consider the CV 90 APO. Even Puts says it's better than any Leica 90 except the latest.
Seriously consider the CV 90 APO. Even Puts says it's better than any Leica 90 except the latest.
I second Nick's suggestion. The CV 90 APO is a great lens--sharp and IMO leica-like in look.
I've been happy with a Elmarit II. I paid $500 for a mint one from a local shop.
Post deleted by posters request
Sorry if this is a silly question, but which are the type I and II 90 Elmarits, when were they produced and how are they different from today's version? I'm also looking at getting a 90mm soon, so any advice would be appreciated.
Cheers
Post deleted by posters request
Magus,
Thank you very much! I greatly appreciate it.
Cheers,
Gert
Post deleted by posters request
For a concise history of most, if not all, Leica lenses go to the KB Camera site.
Leica History (http://www.kbcamera.com/mreviews.htm)
Leica Lens Serial Numbers-Dates (http://www.kbcamera.com/lensdates.htm)
Thanks vencha.
Magus, not arcane at all, more like fascinating!
My fiancee does not always like the images (of her) produced by the current 50mm Summicron, which is my only lens as far, so I'm looking for something which would be not too sharp in terms of reproducing skin flaws accurately..
Thanks again!
Thanks vencha.
Magus, not arcane at all, more like fascinating!
My fiancee does not always like the images (of her) produced by the current 50mm Summicron, which is my only lens as far, so I'm looking for something which would be not too sharp in terms of reproducing skin flaws accurately..
Thanks again!
You're welcome.
Smiling. Your fiance has given you GAS, hey? :) That's good. Whatever 90mm lens you pick, use it wide open to photograph your fiance.
Post deleted by posters request
She has indeed given me GAS.. And it's worse than ever before! I guess this time the expense can be justified with wanting to make better pictures of her :) .. Is there any substantial distortion when doing head and shoulders with a 75mm compared with a 90mm? I have experienced that the 50mm does sometimes make faces look not quite right if I'm too close to the subject.
There's a used but not abused 75mm Summilux going for the equivalent of about $1200 USD in a local shop here. I'll stop by and take some shots with it in-store. Hopefully noone else will snatch it up before I've saved up enough. If not, I guess others will come my way eventually!
Thanks again!
Rich Silfver
10-07-2006, 09:28
Gert, the Elmarit (I) is, as mentioned, a great lens and works really well for portraits. Here is one sample, shot wide open at the limit of its close focusing abilities (as always my focus is off just a tad):
http://www.pbase.com/rsilfverberg/image/62632268.jpg
Post deleted by posters request
Ted Witcher
10-07-2006, 09:35
I don't know how to get this to show up already opened, but here you go. This is the 90 APO wide open...
Ken Ford
10-07-2006, 09:39
I'm surprised no one mentioned the low-cost M alternative - the Elmar-C. 90 isn't my favorite FL, but mine outperforms the negs I have from the 1980-era 90 'Cron I owned in the 80s.
...There's a used but not abused 75mm Summilux going for the equivalent of about $1200 USD in a local shop here. I'll stop by and take some shots with it in-store. Hopefully noone else will snatch it up before I've saved up enough. If not, I guess others will come my way eventually!
Thanks again!
This is ME with Summilux envy. :cool:
I hope you get it. I hope she loves it!
PS. The Voigtlander 75mm 1:2.5 desreves consideration as well.
Leica 90mm Elmar in an M-mount. Rare but available. Cool, small lens also very light in weight.
Second choice, 90mm Leica Tele-Elmarit, "thin" not the "fat" design.
Third choice: CV 90mm lens with bayonet adapter.
-g
I just got an offer for an early black 90 'cron at $250 in user condition, what is that one like? I already got a thin tele-elmarit and I don't know if that extra stop is worth an extra 500gr in the camera bag... I gather it's the one with tripod mount but I haven't seen it yet.
There are also two Elmarit 28/2.8 up for $550-650 in user and user+ conditions respectively. Pity I bought Patashnik's M6 the other day, I don't feel like spending another $1000 the same week on new lenses (although I wouldn't have had much use for a 28mm on my m4-2 and I'll have trouble enough using a 35mm on the m6 wearing my glasses)
??
.........................
I just got an offer for an early black 90 'cron at $250 in user condition, what is that one like? I already got a thin tele-elmarit and I don't know if that extra stop is worth an extra 500gr in the camera bag... I gather it's the one with tripod mount but I haven't seen it yet.
There are also two Elmarit 28/2.8 up for $550-650 in user and user+ conditions respectively. Pity I bought Patashnik's M6 the other day, I don't feel like spending another $1000 the same week on new lenses (although I wouldn't have had much use for a 28mm on my m4-2 and I'll have trouble enough using a 35mm on the m6 wearing my glasses)
I don't quite get it Ampguy, is it my post you don't understand?
The thread name is "Got 90mm M advice" and I asked about the second version 90mm Summicron f/2. Do you know anything about it?
Maybe my second paragraph is a bit OT, but not that bad? What are the 28mm Elmarits like?
In your 2nd paragraph it sounded like you weren't too happy with your 35. I apologize for derailing your thread.
I don't quite get it Ampguy, is it my post you don't understand?
The thread name is "Got 90mm M advice" and I asked about the second version 90mm Summicron f/2. Do you know anything about it?
Maybe my second paragraph is a bit OT, but not that bad? What are the 28mm Elmarits like?
shaaktiman
10-24-2006, 18:23
one more vote for the CV90.
My vote goes to the 90/2.8 hexanon. Modern elmarit performance in a smaller, lighter, less expensive package.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffgallery/gallery/989/U989I1154902049.SEQ.0.jpg
That being said, one of my first leica lenses is the old 90/2.8 elmarit in R-mount. It is the only thing keeping me from selling my Leicaflex SL kit.
I really love my Tele-Elmarit. Image quality is great and the size and weight are perfect!
I also just got a 90 Summicron today. Its a behemoth compared to the TE, but I can't wait to try it out!
In your 2nd paragraph it sounded like you weren't too happy with your 35. I apologize for derailing your thread.
Actually, I don't have a 35 at all, I've only used the frame preview lever to get a feel for the field of view. To see all of the frame, I have to remove my glasses and push my eye against the finder which is a bit too cumbersome. I'll probably try a Jupiter-12 or so for my new M6, it's a cheap way to get a feel for the FOV and whether it fits me or not (I've never liked 35mm on my SLRs)
Post deleted by posters request
Magus, you may be right. I was going by a few things, including MTF graphs, user reviews, and reviews by Dante Stella among others. More importantly, to me at least, is the fact that I have had both lenses, and find no significant difference in the images i had taken. Perhaps, your personal experience with both the modern elmarit and 90 hexanon are different. Granted, I never enlarge more than 11 x 14; larger enlargements may bear out this difference in fingerprint you site.
I really love my Tele-Elmarit. Image quality is great and the size and weight are perfect!
I also just got a 90 Summicron today. Its a behemoth compared to the TE, but I can't wait to try it out!
So, how did it go?
So, how did it go?
I've shot a couple rolls with the Summicron. I'm going to drop off one roll at the lab and develop the other. I think I might end up selling it simply because of the size, though.
Well, I for one ended up getting a chrome 90/2.8 largely because of this thread! It arrived yesterday, and I will be shooting with it this weekend. If it is anything like the one I have in R-mount, then my Leicaflex stuff will go.
I would like to thank all those who contributed to keeping GAS alive, especially Roland, Rich, venchka, x-ray and magus. :)
I recently bought the Elmarit 90 v1, but haven't taken it for walkies. Based on the images from Rich S, I expect fine performance. Meanwhile, I use an old chrome Elmar 90 because it's lighter, and f/4 is fast enough for daytime. The old chrome 'cron looks epic in construction, but the weight must be frightening.
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.