View Full Version : New ZM lenses, 21mm and 18mm.
sheepdog
09-20-2006, 05:24
Biogon T* 4,5/21 ZM
http://www.zeiss.de/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/2ed02958b9bbc5dcc12571ec005336c5
Distagon T* 4/18 ZM
http://www.zeiss.de/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/7e14bca7d3c8a25bc12571ec005363bd
Some more ZF and medium format lenses here, but the page seems to be a rough draft (typos, wrong pictures).
http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B0478/search/5C8A382AE7237A1DC12571EE004507FF?OpenDocument
_
Kjetil
Nachkebia
09-20-2006, 05:26
Wow Wow Wow!
Nachkebia
09-20-2006, 05:27
woooooow!!!!
That 18mm seems interesting.
saxshooter
09-20-2006, 06:23
Hmmm... 18mm... I smell a digital (non Full frame) Zeiss coming...
Nachkebia
09-20-2006, 06:25
Or they want to sell lenses to M8 users since leica has nothing in same legue with same price (hopefully low) :) anyhow very sexy lens :D
Did you see the DOF markings on the 100/F2 ZF ?? The only ones that show up are the F11 and 22, very selective focus....
Hmmm... 18mm... I smell a digital (non Full frame) Zeiss coming...
That would make sense..
After all; CV already have the design/layout from the RD-1 so it should be easy to incorporate that into a Zeiss body I would think.
Dave
Nachkebia
09-20-2006, 06:37
Athos6 : Can you explain what does it mean? I don`t know why are those markings....
Nachkebia
09-20-2006, 06:38
That would make sense..
After all; CV already have the design/layout from the RD-1 so it should be easy to incorporate that into a Zeiss body I would think.
Dave
1.6 crop factor? no thanks :D
saxshooter
09-20-2006, 06:39
DOF markings: At any given focus distance (as seen from center mark pointing to the distance on barrel of lens), the two marks on either side (lined up with the aperture value) is the depth of focus as read from the focus ring.
Once you know that "ballpark" visually on your barrel, then you can play with hyperfocal distance. But this is much more effective with wider lenses.
Nachkebia
09-20-2006, 06:41
Thanks saxshooter, Hyperfocus they call it right? yeah, but what is useage for macro lens?
The depth of field markings? The F-stop markings that tell you what should be in focus at each apeture. Most of my lenses have most of the apetures marked the 100/2 has only the f11 and f22. You should be able to get razor sharp selective focus with lens....
saxshooter
09-20-2006, 06:45
That would make sense..
After all; CV already have the design/layout from the RD-1 so it should be easy to incorporate that into a Zeiss body I would think.
Dave
And now they can get Kodak to make them the imager (unless Leica totally patented the one Kodak made for them) and hopefully stick a $3000 price tag on it.
Now should I get the 35/1.4 nikkor or the Zeiss 35/2 ??? ARggg!
saxshooter
09-20-2006, 06:46
Thanks saxshooter, Hyperfocus they call it right? yeah, but what is useage for macro lens?
Probably not much, it is too "tight" to mark it on the barrel, I would assume, unless you are totally stopped down.
1.6 crop factor? no thanks :D
Well.. I bet ya; if Zeiss/CV want to make some bucks.. that's how they'll do it. People will eat it up.... Mr K; while he should be lauded for bringing back RF photography in an age where digital P&S and SLRs are becoming/have become the norm, is still a businessman - and in the end, his company and any partnerships they may have with other companies (Epson / Zeiss ) is all about making a profit.
Maybe a different sensor can be used - but I don't think a full frame digital RF / will be viable just yet. So.. they stick with what they have for the time being...
Dave
I wonder what the prices will be for the ZF lenses??
photocrazy
09-20-2006, 06:50
The medium format lenses are really beautiful. Thinking adding a 500cm and 180mm f4.
Nachkebia
09-20-2006, 06:52
dcsang : Zeiss are not in trounle as leica was (is) so they have no demand in digital body! until system is mature and they can put full frame onboard..
No kidding, I have been lusting over a 501CM... Now with these new ZV's... I really want one of those 50/4.
grantray
09-20-2006, 07:03
Out of curiosity, Sheepdog, how did you find these links? I check the Zeiss site often. Am I blind?
-grant
There is a history of Zeiss Biogons 4.5/21 since 1953 (Contax RF) and Distagons 4/18 since 1967 (Contarex line). I wonder if these lenses are remakes of the historical designs.
cheers Frank
summilux
09-20-2006, 07:37
looks like this year's Photokina will be fun.
zeiss is very smart, they just utilize the existing camera mount to suit its own purpose, zm for leica M mount, zf for nikon mount, and now zv for hasselblad v mount.
Nachkebia
09-20-2006, 07:40
summilux : very smart indeed! I respect them more and more :D
sheepdog
09-20-2006, 08:23
Out of curiosity, Sheepdog, how did you find these links? I check the Zeiss site often. Am I blind?
There was a thread up on dpreview regarding the ZF-lenses, and as I am a Minoltian myself, I check anything labeled "New Zeiss Lenses" hoping for more ZA glass. Of the current ZA primes 135/1.8 and 85/1.4, I already have an equivalent for the 85, and the 135 is more than long enough on my 1.6x 7D body (which is a delight to use with an optional split screen installed). I am hoping they'll focus on the short end next - something between 16 and 24mm with a descent max aperture size would help fill my gap between 14/2.8 and 28/2..
As to your concerns of bad eyesight, your gallery on bedetermined.com would suggest strongly otherwise - nice work, man!
_
Kjetil
Nachkebia
09-20-2006, 08:26
as I am a Minoltian myself, I check anything labeled "New Zeiss Lenses" hoping for more ZA glass
Just for you! :angel:
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/lens/2006/09/20/4649.html
Blackbelt
09-20-2006, 08:37
Hmmm... 18mm... I smell a digital (non Full frame) Zeiss coming...
In an elaborate interview with Herbert Keppler from PopPhoto only a few weeks back, the head of Zeiss photography division denied any such plans.
If you read on and between the lines, Zeiss seems to be patient and willing to wait for sensor technology to be able to serve a FF-RF, possibly to secure optimum use of the new lens line.
sheepdog
09-20-2006, 08:41
Just for you! :angel:
Thanks, but the announced offerings don't tickle my wallet (except for the updated 35/1.4) in the way a 21/2.0 would.. :-)
Also had hopes for the 16-80 being my Tri-Elmar equivalent for one body, one lens work, but it's being pushed back from Oct/Nov to March of 07. I hope Sony get a 7D-like semipro body out the door by that time, and I'll be sleeping much easier at night again :-) (7Ds have a habit of dying and replacements are non-existent ATM)
Back on topic, I really like the steady flow of quality primes from Zeiss, be they built at Zeiss Oberkochen, Cosina Japan or Sony China.. Photography won't get less interesting this way..
_
Kjetil
Blackbelt
09-20-2006, 08:44
dcsang : Zeiss are not in trounle as leica was (is) so they have no demand in digital body! until system is mature and they can put full frame onboard..
Excactly.
The already have an impressive range of all-newly designed lenses with probably unpararalelled corner-to-corner sharpness. Even if a FF-camera is a few years ahead, a large part of the Leice lenses will seem pretty outdated at the time.
Nachkebia
09-20-2006, 08:52
Just collected all together with pictures
http://camera-info.com/Zeiss/New_Zeiss_lenses_for_Nikon_Hasselblad_and_Zeiss_Ik on/_Leica_M.html
Chris Lynch
09-20-2006, 09:03
that 21/4.5 is a beauty, and the 18/4 should be pretty awesome!
a camera is just an excuse to sell lenses. zeiss is smart.
There is a history of Zeiss Biogons 4.5/21 since 1953 (Contax RF) and Distagons 4/18 since 1967 (Contarex line). I wonder if these lenses are remakes of the historical designs.
Given the release of the classic 50mm 1.5, I would bet money that you are correct. A 21 f4.5 biogon is defiately another Zeiss classic.
Won't be needing these two new ZM lenses.
The new Tri-Elmar and its new finder are for me.
The new Tri-Elmar and its new finder are for me.
The new tri-elmar does look good but I suspect you could buy both these new Zeiss lenses for a little over half of the cost of the Tri-Elmar.
I wonder if a new fnder is also due for the new 18? Maybe another dual frameline finder from Zeiss?
Nachkebia
09-20-2006, 10:30
Captain : Indeed and it will be much much smaller :)
btw Will 18mm have focusing aid? it wont be as 15mm right?
Im guessing it will be RF coupled.
What I want to know is where were these in the 60s, 70s 80s and 90s? Why the push for manual focus leses from Zeiss now? I wonder if it's because Nikon is dropping their own line of manual focus lenses.
That 21mm Biogon looks awesome...I think i will be saveing soon. Hopefully it will be priced a little lower than the 21mm 2.8...
Nachkebia
09-20-2006, 11:30
Little lower? it is 2/5 stops slower, should it be alot cheaper?
who do I order from ? !!! I want it now :)
Little lower? it is 2/5 stops slower, should it be alot cheaper?
I worry a little bit that it could be a bit expensive due to the cult status of the contax rf 21mm biogon....If it was to be around $500 I would probably have it as soon as someone like Popflash offered it up...
Nachkebia
09-20-2006, 11:56
Ah, so it has a cult status? tell me more :cool: :rolleyes:
I'm glad that Zeiss is keeping the production up and even invents new lenses. I got the 2/35 Biogon for my M6 and no complaints! :)
NIKON KIU
09-20-2006, 13:58
The 21mm F4.5 is nothing new, I would have liked to see an improvement there, may be F3.5? how about F2.8?
18mm F4 is very interesting though, seems to be Zeiss wants to sell to those M8 owners to be.
Kiu
Nachkebia
09-20-2006, 14:02
NIKON KIU : http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9/ContentsWWWIntern/5AD83A50E3BF6253C12571090047C68A
The 21mm F4.5 is nothing new, I would have liked to see an improvement there, may be F3.5? how about F2.8?
Ehm, hasn't Zeiss been offering a Biogon T* 21/2.8 for quite some time (http://www.zeissikon.com/lens.21.htm)?
If they offer a 21/4.5 Biogon next to that, there has to be something special to the lens. Either it's very cheap, which I doubt in the light of the CV 21/4 Color Skopar, or it's somehow "classic", which would support Frank's theory.
Philipp
Nachkebia
09-20-2006, 14:14
"classic" designs are more than welcome right? :)
NIKON KIU
09-20-2006, 14:40
NIKON KIU : http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9/ContentsWWWIntern/5AD83A50E3BF6253C12571090047C68A
I knew I was missing something:confused:
Ok lets wish for a 20mm f:2.0 :angel:
Kiu
BillBingham2
09-20-2006, 15:08
It's interesting because a CV 18mm was shown a while back and the press kind of killed it (lack of positive responce).
B2 (;->
I doubt a Zeiss digital at less than full frame. I think they've put their stake in the ground on that. And corporations never change their minds! LOL. But I still doubt it.
spysmart
09-20-2006, 16:27
If the new compact 21 f/4.5 is a classic Biogon design - does that mean an exit angle that will be unsuitable ( or at least not optimal ) for future digital use? Looks like the 18 f/4 is more telecentric similar to the 21 f/2.8.
a camera is just an excuse to sell lenses. zeiss is smart.
:D agreed!
What I want to know is where were these in the 60s, 70s 80s and 90s? Why the push for manual focus leses from Zeiss now? I wonder if it's because Nikon is dropping their own line of manual focus lenses.
The Contax SLR line was still alive in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. That might have prevented Zeiss from introducing lenses for other SLR mounts. Now that Contax is dead, they are free to do whatever they can.
Compared to the 21mm/2.8 Biogon ZM, the new 21mm/4.5 ZM mainly looks shorter on the front end with a very short rear protrusion. The 21mm/4.5 ZM will probably perform similarly to the 2.8, as they are both retrofocalized, not like the classic Biogons for Contax. The new one looks to be about the size of the 28mm/2.8 Biogon ZM and 50mm/1.5 C Sonnar, while the 21mm/2.8 is very long. Probably the 4.5 will be a good travel lens, but I already have the 2.8, which is nice and versatile, and not that big.
The 18mm/4 Distagon ZM looks really big though! Not sure if I would like that, but the photo does look like the lens sports a RF coupling cam (which are black on all the ZMs). When RF lenses approach the size of SLR ones my interest wanes. I'm not the he-man Nikon F4 toter I used to be!
The ZF lenses all look pretty big too, but the 25mm/2.8 Distagon and Makro-Planars look interesting. People rave about the Nikkor 24mm/2.8, but mine just isn't as sharp as I would like. And f/2 for macro lenses would seem to offer a big jump in versatility vs the Micro-Nikkors.
grantray
09-20-2006, 20:25
As for new manual focus lenses, perhaps Zeiss did a bit of research and saw the now-swelling backlash towards all things automaton from an entusiast perspective. They clearly have the everyman covered via their deal with Sony, so why not go after the specialist? To further my point, they just released "classic" Hassy lenses for a body that has recently been discontinued. Sound peculiar? No, not really.
Basically, I think they did their homework. Oh, and thanks for the compliment, sheepdog. Glad you liked it.
-grant
Huck Finn
09-20-2006, 21:14
That would make sense..
After all; CV already have the design/layout from the RD-1 so it should be easy to incorporate that into a Zeiss body I would think.
Dave
Cosina only made the body for the R-D1. Epson designed & installed the electronics/software totally separate from Cosina, i.e. Cosina built the bodies & shipped them to Epson where the rest was installed. This lack of coordination was one of the weaknesses of the project & was probably responsible for many of the quality control problems.
I would hope that Zeiss would find this arrangement unacceptable for any project which would bear their name. My guess is that the lenses are targeted at the M8 & to a lesser extent at the R-D1 - much as the target for ZF lenses are Nikon cameras & not any camera initiated by Zeiss. I doubt that they signal a Zeiss digital camera any time soon.
Palaeoboy
09-21-2006, 00:40
It's interesting because a CV 18mm was shown a while back and the press kind of killed it (lack of positive responce).
The reason given for the Voigtlander 18mm not going into production was that Cosina was busy with all the new Zeiss offerings. I think this new Zeiss lens is the real reason as they dont want to duplicate! Also explains why the popular 21mmm Voigtlander has not been upgraded to a new M mount barrel.
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/4971713-lg.jpg
OK this was the classical (1953) 4.5/21 Biogon in Contax RF mount.
Obviously the new Biogon is longer and intrudes less into the lens opening, therefore it cannot be the same design. It's a retrofocus like all new Zeiss superwides, either Distagon or Biogon name. Zeiss don't use these names that strict like they did in the 60's or 70's.
The lens has a nice size. I think most travellers prefer a trouser pocket's 21mm over a protruding f/2.8 lens. But than it need to be noticeable better than Cosina's 4/21mm.
Maybe the 4/18mm Distagon is the classic design. We'll see it with the published diagrams.
cheers Frank
grantray
09-21-2006, 07:28
Zeiss yanked the links. Did anyone do a screen grab of the new 21 so it can be reposted in the thread? Also, I can't see the classic 21. Can you repost that, Frank?
-grant
Nachkebia
09-21-2006, 07:34
http://camera-info.com/images/stories/zeiss_zm21silber.jpg
everything else here..
http://camera-info.com/Zeiss/New_Zeiss_lenses_for_Nikon_Hasselblad_and_Zeiss_Ik on/_Leica_M.html
phototone
09-21-2006, 09:32
There is a history of Zeiss Biogons 4.5/21 since 1953 (Contax RF) and Distagons 4/18 since 1967 (Contarex line). I wonder if these lenses are remakes of the historical designs.
cheers Frank
I have a 21mm Biogon in classic Contax RF mount. The rear element almost touches the shutter. I doubt any new extreme-wide-angle will be designed with the rear elements projecting back that far into the shutter-box.
phototone
09-21-2006, 09:51
What I want to know is where were these in the 60s, 70s 80s and 90s? Why the push for manual focus leses from Zeiss now? I wonder if it's because Nikon is dropping their own line of manual focus lenses.
You bet it is because Zeiss sees a "niche" they can fill.
Back in the time periods you mention, Zeiss had several manufacturers ordering lenses from Zeiss. They are now gone. Zeiss has had to take the bull by the horns and start releasing lenses themselves.
So to summarize former Zeiss cleints
Hasselblad (now Fuji lenses)
Roelli
Contax (Kyocera closed down camera production)
there may be more I forgot to mention.
Looks like Zeiss killed the page with the info on it.
http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_16456972/502c/__sr_/a14b.jpg?grIo.EFBYMA7vika
Frank,
which version is this? The one for the Contax? The Contarex version didn't have an aperture ring AFAIK.
Philipp
lens design: http://www.taunusreiter.de/cameras/biogon2.jpg
Contarex mount is here: http://www.cameraquest.com/zeissbio.htm
This was Contax RF. MTF data here: http://www.imx.nl/zeiss.html
it was better than the 4/18mm (Contarex mount) Distagon, which got replaced by a 2.8/18.
... Contarex mount is here: http://www.cameraquest.com/zeissbio.htm
This was Contax RF. MTF data here: http://www.imx.nl/zeiss.html
it was better than the 4/18mm (Contarex mount) Distagon, which got replaced by a 2.8/18.Tiny correction: the Contarex D18 was reborn in C/Y mount with the same maximum aperture of f/4.
Ref: CZ lens datasheets (http://www.zeiss.com/de/photo/home_e.nsf/allBySubject/5ED01EB620D0B1CEC12570F80033CADA)
Rico, you've got it right. But according to Zeiss, the C/Y lens was recalculated.
cheers, Frank
I like the chrome. It will go well with both MP and M8 :) The 15 is black and expensive
sebastel
09-26-2006, 08:08
the pages on the 4,5/21 and the 2,8/18 are back on the official zeiss web site (at least in german), but no new info yet.
just FYI.
cheers,
sebastian
I was told by a ZI rep at Photokina today that the 18mm lens isn't going to be available until at least March 2007.
espressogeek
11-10-2006, 14:51
March of 07 is fine with me as I'm not going to Yosemite until May. Does anyone know what the 18mm will cost?
Thanks
whitecat
11-12-2006, 03:33
I'm sure it will have a seperate finder too.
ZeissFan
11-12-2006, 06:40
That 18mm lens looks very sexy.
Zeiss likely is waiting for mature digital technology so that it can release a product that will have a shelf life that is measured in years and not months. If/When Zeiss develops a digital camera, I expect it to be fully developed and tested and not be replaced with a Mark II version for several years, if that.
Do it right the first time, and there's no need to have to revisit it every few months.
The Zeiss Ikon (film version) is a camera that I see lasting decades (perhaps not for sale for decades) but one that can remain in service for decades.
I think it's safe to assume that Zeiss is closely watching the situation with the M8.
Niche manufacturers can't afford missteps.
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