View Full Version : What makes a FED shutter so noisy?
Well, Zorkis too, for that matter.
Seems that the similar design of mechanics has been used throughout the development life of these cameras. I guess that the noise that the shutter made was never a concern for the designers or even contemporary users.
I have a FED 2 which sounds very nice, a little softer than some others and quite pleasant at 25th and 50th....but not quiet. I wondered if I could make some modification to one to try to tame the noise, a project for winter perhaps.
It's fairly clear that there are two "events" which generate the noise, one as the first shutter finishes its travel and again as the second come to a halt.
Anyone got a handle on where the noise is generated?
Dave.,,,,,,
I've been contemplating asking Oleg, to see whether he can overhaul my zorki or fed. They work fine, but shutters are loud, especially on the zorki.
If he doesnt know how to dampen the noise, I doubt anyone outside of the FSU's photographic division does!
Valkir1987
09-12-2006, 11:47
In the Zorki 4 the first curtain is braked down before the second one is released. It is a small wheel that hits a spring in the botoom. The Leica 2/3 also has a brake mechanism that works in the same way. The Zorki 1 and the Zorki 4 I've repaired and cleaned sound very silent, as silent as a Leica.
Noise when firing is caused by the curtain, but also the drums. When the drums turn smooth, you wont really hear them. Another issue is the weight, it absorbs the sound of the shutter in action. If you take the bottom plate of a Leica 3 and fire its shutter, it will sound much louder than the real barnack sound you hear when you use it closed in its case loaded with film. :)
The Leitz cloth (and similar Olympus OMx) shutters are relatively quiet because their brake action reduces the bang of the blind hitting the end stops. I've not had my Fed apart to see if it has similar brakes. The Fed is not a lot noisier than a similar IIIc. Contax tend to be quieter then Kievs because their stops are slightly different.
Noel
My Zorki 4 and 4K both work well, but are possibly the noisiest of my collection. I am surprised to hear that they have a brake. My Zorki 6, FED 2 or FED 3 doesn't appear to have a braking mechanism. The noise I mean sounds very metallic. Clearly heard with the lens off, of course. I don't think that it's as simple as doing (or buying) a service.
Oh, and please pardon my ignorance, I don't know how a Leica sounds, or feels or smells, etc,....don't want to, could lead to very expensive GAS.....
Valkir1987
09-12-2006, 12:17
Offtopic: What does GAS mean? My dutch mind doesnt seem to get it. :)
Dave
I know about gas, sorry did not mean to upset you. The little Fed 1 is pretty similar to a Leicia, and they can be pretty expensive. I get mine cheap as a near parts camera, had to strip lens just to take photos.
The good news it that I did not detect any difference between the Fed for noise and a IIIc & the IIIc is in worse condition, the only difference could be the case, I'll try them both without case.
The brake is not for noise but to stop the blinds bouncing back and altering the 'uniform' exposure. You should see bounce on TV photos, if there was any. If there was a bad brake problem it would be really visible. So I think the Fed should have brakes, although they may need adjustement, which may make them quieter. It is a normal maintenance activity, as is brake inspection when purchasing although more dfifficult to see with a bottom loader.
Noel
Gear Acquisation syndrome, girls have a similar problem with shoes, they need adapted wardrobes to store shoes... Photo people need speically strengthened shelves, glass showcases, lights and dehumidifiers, etc.
If you are married you need a cunning scheme to disguise the syndrome, and a patter (spiel) similar to alcohol problem.
Noel
Offtopic: What does GAS mean? My dutch mind doesnt seem to get it. :)
GAS= Gear Aquisition Syndrome. At least the FSU(Former Soviet Union) variety is relatively cheap.
No easy/painless cure that I know of.
Rob
Noel, sorry if my reply didn't scan as it should, I'm not put out at all. Just scared of Leica GAS, although the price alone should be a deterent.
Dave :)
rogue_designer
09-12-2006, 13:44
It could be the echoes of Proletariat uprisings past...
just sayin.
What I have found from overhauling 2 Fed 3's is that the shutter tensioning is a bit tight which can cause added noise. Also as one poster pointed out a CLA will go a long way in dampening the shutter noise. Part of the noise is also dry shafts spinning on dry bearings when you release the shutter.. :eek:
Is a noisy shutter actually problem? Is it an indicator of some problem? Is it just the prevailing taste that it should be quiet?
I kind of like being able to hear it, sounds like it's actually doing something.
Shutter bounce which you may get with a bad brake would be a problem.
I tried the IIIC and the Fed 1 out of cases, they sounded pretty similar, the sound emitter seemed to be the speed dial, which you might expect given it is connected to the shutter mechanism. The M does not seem to be as bad...
And yes I do understand about GAS.
Noel
Spyderman
09-13-2006, 09:26
Surprisingly, my FED 3b is much quieter than my Zorki 4. Even after CLA, the Zorki got quieter, but not as quiet as the FED. Shutter curtain tension adds a lot of noise... (less tension = lower speed = less energy for the brake to absorb...)
Is a noisy shutter actually problem? Is it an indicator of some problem? Is it just the prevailing taste that it should be quiet?
I kind of like being able to hear it, sounds like it's actually doing something.
Yes, I'm afraid that I am victim to taste. They are hardly unobtrusive and can attract some attention when I least want it, I am not the only one to hear the shutter go. But you are quite right, I bet it was never an issue 30-40-50 years ago.
I've got a couple of FED3s (a and b) which are of low value and unused by me. I may strip and rebuild one of these and try to determine where the noise is made.
Should they have a brake?
What I have found from overhauling 2 Fed 3's is that the shutter tensioning is a bit tight which can cause added noise. Also as one poster pointed out a CLA will go a long way in dampening the shutter noise. Part of the noise is also dry shafts spinning on dry bearings when you release the shutter.. :eek:
like you, I found that my FEDs arrived with shutters quite highly tensioned. They go quieter after being set up. A clean and lube may well free up some parts and allow even less tension to be used, so making them even quieter. Some remain quite snappy. Did you see a braking mechanism when overhauling cameras? I assume that this is not the same as the bits which limit the travel of the curtain drums (which I think could be the culprits here).
Spyderman
09-13-2006, 11:35
The brake is on the bottom. On the other side of the tensioning axes...
They are noticeably quieter when Oleg has serviced them. Some of the noise is just age and neglect meaning that things aren't functioning. My Zorki 1 is quiet but not as quiet as my Leica IIIa
like you, I found that my FEDs arrived with shutters quite highly tensioned. They go quieter after being set up. A clean and lube may well free up some parts and allow even less tension to be used, so making them even quieter. Some remain quite snappy. Did you see a braking mechanism when overhauling cameras? I assume that this is not the same as the bits which limit the travel of the curtain drums (which I think could be the culprits here).
The braking mechanism is located behind the cover at the bottom inside the throat. It works by placing a bit of drag on the bottom shutter tape and lathe. It also acts as an anti-bounce mechanism.
Thanks for the help everyone. I hadn't thought of those bits as brakes and am still puzzled, I'll give it some thought before I strip the 3a. I'll still need to determine where the noise is generated. If slow (or bulb) shutter speeds are selected, you can hear that the metalic noise, if you have any, is made at the end of travel of both curtains. Faster speeds seem to blur the two sounds into a single noise. I think that the first place to try is in the parts which limit the travel, the stops if you like....anyway, that's a little way off so thanks for your input..and watch out for the sale of a parts camera if it turns to......
Dave
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