View Full Version : Best FSU 50mm lens?
ddimaria
01-04-2005, 18:49
O.K. I'm thinking about getting a 50mm (LTM) lens (this is tele-photo for me) I'm flat broke so I am thinking about a Russian made one. I guess I am most concerned with image quality and not speed.
Any suggestions, ones to get?
others to avoid?
From the photographs produced as distinct from the use of it, the best I have seen is the Jupiter-8, a 50mm/f2 lens. The lens is a copy of the Carl Zeiss Sonnar, seems to be a little soft at f2 but sharpens up thereafter. Nice warm color rendition and beautiful OOF area. I have bought one myself and I'm very much looking forward to using it.
Check out Remy's (RML) pictures with this lens in his gallery, they are quite something. One thing about FSU lenses is that they vary enormously in quality, so you need to be a little discriminating when purchasing.
I would agree with Peter my j8 is very sharp, the best 30 dollars I ever spent.
There's also the Jupiter-8M which some say is even better than the original J-8.
Walker
IMO the Jupiter-8 is the best of the Russian LTM lenses. Only a few weeks ago I bought another, black, one to complement my current, silver, J-8. The J-8 gives a very smooth, creamy picture in the OOF areas, and a nice sharp (but not overly sharp) picture in the in-focus areas. I really love this lens. It works really well to give a slightly old-fashioned soft look to your pictures, but only slightly. It works great for landscapes and portraits alike.
The Industar-61 LD is a nice lens as well but I find it too sharp, resulting in too harsh a picture. I also don't like the colour rendition. I have several of these lenses because they come with almost every FED2 but I never use them.
The Industar-26 is, IMO, really not very nice. It's not too sharp like the I-61 LD but the colour rendition isn't to my taste and neither is the way it renders the OOF areas and the picture in general. With this lens you get what you pay for: it cost little, you get little.
There's a collapsible 50 (Industar-50? I can't remember the name properly, and can't check it because I'm at work), which makes for a nice small package when stuck on a FED2 but again I find the lens lacking in performance.
When I bought the black J-8 I also got a Jupiter-3, which is a 50/1.5 lens. I haven't received it yet so I can't comment on it yet. If it is anything like the J-8 it could turn out to be another favourite of mine, especialy if it performs well at wide aperture.
Walker, isn't the J-8M a Kiev mount lens?
I think Remy's right; the J-8M added click-stops to the aperture ring, and engraved the f/numbers on opposite sides of the lens so at least one set should be visible as the lens rotates in focusing. Here's what Fedka.com says about it:
"The lens is an improved version of the original Zeiss Sonnar 50/2 copy, Jupiter-8. The aperture dial was engraved on both sides of the lens, so the settings are visible regardless of the lens position. The aperture was set in the fixed (with stop-clicks) positions. And, of course, the name was changed to Jupiter-8M."
Originally posted by ddimaria
O.K. I'm thinking about getting a 50mm (LTM) lens (this is tele-photo for me) I'm flat broke so I am thinking about a Russian made one. I guess I am most concerned with image quality and not speed.
Any suggestions, ones to get?
others to avoid?
IMO
1. Jupiter 8 - The best Soviet 50mm IMO, versatile (f2) with a nice all round image quality. $30-40 should get you a like new late black model with caps.
2. Ind 61 L/D - The sharpest and most contrasty of the Soviet 50's and some users find it too much so. I don’t mind it but the J8 is nicer for regular use. Best way to get one is buy a FED5 with one on, I got my FED5/Ind-61L/D like new for $18
Originally posted by ddimaria
O.K. I'm thinking about getting a 50mm (LTM) lens (this is tele-photo for me) I'm flat broke so I am thinking about a Russian made one. I guess I am most concerned with image quality and not speed.
Any suggestions, ones to get?
others to avoid?
ddimaria,
I have to agree with other members.. get a "good" J8 and you'll be happy, the point is how much lenses will you buy to find a good one? :p
For instance, I have two J8-M and one J8, all of them coated and built around 1960.. but one of them performs really bad compared with the other two.. and you'll not distinguish the bad from the good one until you use it for the first time!
Good luck!
Rob.
The J-8M is only available in Kiev-mount, not in LTM!
As for the rest, I agree with the others: go for the J-8, it has the nicest bokeh, and can be very sharp once you stop it down a bit; lower contrast, though for my taste this is a good thing; there are three versions - the first, silver with focussing tab (my favorite), the second, silver without focussing tab, and the latest, black, a bit different constructed - it has a rotating front lens (not as convenient with a rectangular hood); all of them don'T have click stops on the aperture ring (OK, the black one might - that's the one I don't own myself yet...)
The I-61 L/D is also a good lens, but with totally different character: blotchy bokeh and very high contrast; this one does have click-stops.
Roman
I agree with all of you that the Jupiter-8 is well balanced between pros and cons, but the Industar 61 LD is a very sharp beast, personally I like the contrasts it deliver and it's a good performer for B&W landscapes or architecture as Roman said at other thread.
They are so cheap that as they use to say here, get them both.
But there is another lense you could give a glance the Jupiter-3, it´s faster than J-8.
Here is link with description of FSU equimpment.
http://www.fotoua2.com
pshinkaw
01-05-2005, 06:34
If you don't care about lens speed but price and quality are your first criteria, I suggest getting a rigid mount (black or silver) Industar-50.They are so ungainly looking that someone will probably give you one, but they are very fine performing Tessar-type lenses. (50mm/f3.5)
Keep in mind that you can get a Jupiter-8 in LTM mount for anywhere from $25-$35. If you watch e-Bay closely you can even buy one from a US Seller and avoid shipping costs from Russia or the Ukraine.
-Paul
ddimaria
01-05-2005, 06:55
Thanks for the advice, I think I am leaning for the J8. I've seen some on ebay listed as new, is this a crock? Any ideas which serial numbers might be from a good batch?
Krasnaya_Zvezda
01-05-2005, 07:28
For the best image quality, I agree Jupiter 8 is best, however I find that with no click stops it is easy to accidentaly change aperture while focusing, so one must be wary; I like the Industar 61 L/D, it is not too sharp in my opinion (but I shoot alot of digital, so in comparison...). I also like the Industar 22, produces sharp images with good contrast, also it is collapsible. With the retro look of the lens, you'll get lots of questions ("What the hell is that thing?") Looking at prices on eBay, it seems you can buy any of these lenses with a camera attached as cheaply as buying the lens alone, although I notice an Industar 61 listed currenly for $9, BIN $15 so those might be somewhat cheaper.
Zhelayu udachi!
In general lenses and cameras from the 50s and 60s seem to be of better build quality, but RFF members have reported also good specimen from later eras.
I've tried to use my Jupiter-8 on my Epson R-D1 and just haven't had much luck with it. I found that at moderate distances (~20 feet) the actual focus point is several feet closer than the intended focus point.
I don't know whether to attribute this to the theory that Soviet lenses were standardized for a different focusing pitch than LTM-standard; or the theory that Soviet LTM lenses need to be calibrated for a specific camera body (an eBay seller claims this is in the owner's manual for some lenses); or the possibility that my specific lens is just plain out of whack. (Does anyone know for sure which possibility is most likely, and can anything be done about it?)
Anyway, the moral of this is that, as others have said, you may need to be prepared to buy several J-8 lenses to find one that works well on a non-Soviet camera!
Maybe my specimen is just plain good or already calibrated before I bought it, but I've never experienced any focusing problems, definitely not running into several feet. I often shoot at f4 or wider and close-up, focusing at the eyes of people, and have never seen a problem with the eyes being OOF. You might have to consider that your specimen is out of wack. :)
pshinkaw
01-05-2005, 08:01
Can't really tell about SN's. I have 7 of them ranging from #5420561 to #7320978(black). None of mine are bad lenses. If they are new, they are probably the black ones that are most common on late model Zorki-4's and Zorki-4K's. They have a simpler helical focusing system than the older 1950's and 1960's models that are shiny aluminum (so-called silver). As a result, the entire lens rotates as you focus, including the f-numbers. This can be a nuisance if you use a rangefinder polarizer or a rectangular lenshood).Otherwise they are perfectly fine lenses.
The shiny ones usually have to be disassembled and lubed. They were mostly made in the 50's and 60's and the Soviet grease has hardened by now. It is fairly simple to do.
Some of the older shiny models have a focusing tab to assist in turning the lens. On some camera bodies this tab will bump into the self-timer lever. On some other lenses this has been hack-sawed off. It all depends on what your intended use will be.
As stated by others, there are no click-stops.
They must have been pretty pricey lenses in the USSR. I have never seen one that was abused. All of the previous owners took good care of them.
Sometimes it is more cost-effective to shop for a Zorki-4 or 4K with the Jupiter-8 attached. They frequently cost no more or even less than a Jupiter-8 alone. You will pay extra for shipping because of the additional weight. Think of the extra camera body as a back-lens cap.
-Paul
Rick Beckrich
01-05-2005, 10:19
I've been using a Industar 61 L/D on a Bessa R with great results.
Came with FED 5 body which is a fine "go forth in the rain and take pictures without worry" type of back-up body. (It came free with the lense, brand new.)
Rick
Originally posted by pshinkaw
Can't really tell about SN's.Too true, Paul! It seems the ones that begin with a 5x, 6x, 7x or 8x are built in the year that 's the first two numbers, so my J-8 which starts off 59 was built in 1959. But some lenses begin with a zero, you have 08 and 02 and so on - they seem to be numbered on a different system. FWIW I have read that the lenses from the late 50's/early 60's were the most dependable in terms of quality.
pshinkaw
01-06-2005, 06:14
Peter:
What I meant to say was that I don't know if there are any good or bad years in Jupiter-8 production. I have a fairly broad range of years in my set and they are all good lenses. However, I have read that there may be certain years in the Kiev production series (bodies, not lenses) that were remarkable bad. I have no indication that those problemns also existed in lenses.
Despite the assertion that the Soviets had no ascertainable QA/QC programs, lenses generally seem to be quite good across the board. Perhaps there is something in the nature of lens design and assembly that lends itself to consistent production?
-Paul
I was using a Jupiter 8 yesterday on my Bessa R2 and discovered that no Jupiter, black or silver,
will allow a good meter reading when you leave the lens cap on ... :rolleyes:
Gene
Yes you may be right Paul. The differences over the years may be slight but I have read in several places that late 50's to early 60's had higher quality production than other years.
Of course this could mean that 8 out of 10 were good whereas in other years 7 out of 10 were good - I don't know. What is interesting is that many people, including yourself, report good lenses from a wide range of years so who knows?
The thing is that the lenses are inexpensive so it is worth taking the risk IMO. If you get a dog chalk it up to experience and get another one. :)
Originally posted by Gene
I was using a Jupiter 8 yesterday on my Bessa R2 and discovered that no Jupiter, black or silver,
will allow a good meter reading when you leave the lens cap on ... :rolleyes:
Gene
Tsk Tsk... those poor quality controls...
:p
"I was using a Jupiter 8 yesterday on my Bessa R2 and discovered that no Jupiter, black or silver, will allow a good meter reading when you leave the lens cap on ..."
The lens cap has never stopped me from getting a good reading with my hand-held meter.
The picture, OTOH......... :D
Walker
LOL, Walker. I've done that one too! :D
Gene
I wonder if an unexposed frame from a capped Summicron is sharper than one from a J8? Probably a crisper shade of black is captured.
The boke would clearly be superior! And it would have that "Leica glow", and a certain depth, richness, and 3 dimensionality to it.
Rover, Frank, I'm grinning from ear to ear! :D
Gene
sockeyed
01-28-2005, 10:45
Assuming the weather holds, I'm going to do some tests on my FSU lenses this weekend. I've got 4 Jupiter-8s (2 silver, 2 black), 1 I-26, 1 I-61 ('panda'), and 2 I-61L/D's. I'll make sure to post results somewhere.
No-one's mentioned the plain ol' I-61. Any thoughts?
Good grief! :eek: You sure you have enough lenses there? ;) As I recall the Industar-61 is considered ugly but sharp on this forum...
pshinkaw
01-28-2005, 11:26
I think "ugly" is the term used to describe the Industar-50 fixed mount silver. The Industar-61 is generally ho-hum while the Industar 61L/D is very sharp and contrasty, but roughly assembled.
-Paul
scottgee1
01-28-2005, 12:03
Other than eek-bay, can anyone recommend a good U.S. based source for FSU gear?
TIA!/ScottGee1
wlewisiii
01-28-2005, 12:22
www.fedka.com
He _will_ cost more but he stands behind what he sells and his customer service is second to none. I always go to him first.
William
Sockeyed, how are you thinking of doing your comparo-test? I would like to do the same with a bunch of 50mm lenses I have. (I was hoping to do this over Christmas, but then "life" got in the way.) An appropriate subject should allow the qualities of sharpness, contrast, and boke to be assessed. (Colour rendition, warm/cool, does not apply to my B+W photography.) What other qualities in a lens's performance should be compared/assessed? And what would the best test subject be? Perhaps that Foster's girl?
MikeLeFevre
01-28-2005, 15:32
Hello Sockeyed, I'm a fan of the plain I61 myself, I once did a shootoff versus the I61 L/D and couldn't see any appreciable difference in results (no 40x loupes involved), so ended up selling my L/D version.
M.
I'm hoping that this J-8 I got will be a good one. Don't need any more funny looks from the mailman... ;)
Richard Black
01-30-2005, 08:57
I have a black J-8, sliver J-3, and the collapsible I-50 and enjoy using them all. The I-50 is kept on a Leica IIIc and produces nice photos from f8 on. The J-3 produces nice black and whites because it has yellowed just a bit. The J-8 is a great lens, sharp from f8 and nice OOF at f2. I like them all and use them regularly.
Just wanted to show examples of photos made with J-8 (silver) and Zorky-4
http://www.ilmarin.info/albums3/album115/tmax_0003.jpg
http://www.ilmarin.info/albums3/album110/tmax400_0030.jpg
http://www.ilmarin.info/albums3/album110/tmax400_0027.jpg
I am also using it with Bessa-R and don't have any problems with exposure measuring or focusing. Although, I selected this lens from a several J-8s that went through my hands over years.
Wonderfully crisp, not a whole lot of contrast, but beautiful OOF rendition. Other for some indoor work, I haven't really used this lens very much. My puny little collapsible I-50 is so much more pocketible.
Vladimir welcome to the site and I like your pics with the J-8! Do you know the year of manufacture? (generally the first 2 numbers in the serial nr. of the lens). There's a gallery here BTW - you should post some pics in it! :)
Vladimir welcome to the site and I like your pics with the J-8! Do you know the year of manufacture? (generally the first 2 numbers in the serial nr. of the lens). There's a gallery here BTW - you should post some pics in it! :)
As far as I remember it is made 1956, have to check at home.
Here is another picture: http://www.ilmarin.info/albums3/zoopark/zorki_3_jupiter_8_blenda.jpg - Zorky-3C, Jupiter-8, lens hood
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