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quizzard87
09-07-2006, 11:28
http://www.joelmeyerowitz.com/photography/interview_06.html

watch it!

kbg32
09-07-2006, 12:03
With all due respect, I think this is bull****! 57th and 5th? A dog walker? Yeah, interesting. Gimme a break. Meyerowitz had chosen one of the safest street corners and areas to photograph in NYC. It is one of the centers of monied people and tourists in NY. They tend to move out of the way and cover up when confronted with a camera. Let him try that on upper Broadway or the corner of 125th and St. Nicholas Avenue in Harlem. Or Bushwick. He would get an entirely different response. We would see who would make whom invisible.

This kind of bull**** makes me as angry as sitting through a Ralph Gibson lecture.

kbg32
09-07-2006, 12:04
Excuse me for the rant.

photogdave
09-07-2006, 12:08
Thanks for the post. That was entertaining!:D
His photos were pretty boring though. Maybe that's his style...
kbg32...I know what you mean about Ralph Gibson lectures.;)

Todd.Hanz
09-07-2006, 12:28
what...no freakin "F" words? pfffft...what an amatuer :D

thanks for the link.

todd

Stephan
09-07-2006, 12:33
He certainly seems to have a pretty high opinion of what he's doing. I'm sorry I dont share it.

kbg32
09-07-2006, 13:22
To think, he became the "official" photographer of 9/11. Unlimited access to the clean-up of the site.

Gabriel M.A.
09-07-2006, 14:39
Yeah, I say you want a real street photography challenge? Come to the Twin Cities, where carrying a camera is like carrying a Colt.

quizzard87
09-07-2006, 14:56
well, i never said it was good ;)
i find it quite amusing...not really more.

MoTR
09-07-2006, 15:08
Thank you so much.
I havnet had such a laugh in a long time.
Being sent to everyone I know who shoots!!!

Marc-A.
09-07-2006, 15:31
Sorry I couldn't see him ... all in black, moving so fast ... he was invisible altogether!!! :rolleyes:

RayPA
09-07-2006, 16:28
i listened to most of it, looking at it here and there. i found the all-black outfit funny, but on the whole I kind of liked it (not the outfit). i like meyerowitz' work, aside from the 9/11 stuff.

Thanks for the link.

:)

ywenz
09-07-2006, 17:25
Why r u guys all hatin' on him? He's a good photographer..

Gabriel M.A.
09-07-2006, 17:27
Why r u guys all hatin' on him? He's a good photographer..
I didn't say anything about his photography or his ability as a photographer. How does him being a good photographer make the video any good?

kbg32
09-07-2006, 17:40
Yes, he is a good photographer. Street photographer - no. Joel first gained recognition for his color street work, but then he moved on to Cape Light, Redheads, Tuscany, etc.. He might still do street work, maybe that's where his interests really are, but his overall work is anything but the street. I believe people know him more for making pretty images of accessible subjects.

The video makes him look like a parody of himself.

rool
09-07-2006, 17:47
I really like his street stuff, it's very good. His other stuff, I don't care that much about and the all-black outfit, I'm really not sure about that... I would find it rather scary if a guy like that took a pic of me in the street!!

RayPA
09-07-2006, 17:52
He got some pretty "meyerowitz"-like images during this video, assuming what they were showing as his images actually were from his camera. Heck, I'm going shopping for a black beenie after dinner tonight. :) :)


.

rogue_designer
09-07-2006, 18:15
"I can bob and weave and become invisible"

Right... like a New York Ninja.

Poor Joel. But still, I applaud what he was trying to do in the making of this video. E for Effort.

terrafirmanada
09-07-2006, 18:42
Really fun to watch. No new tricks, but it is not about tricks now, is it.

Marc-A.
09-08-2006, 00:10
Yes, he is a good photographer. Street photographer - no. Joel first gained recognition for his color street work, but then he moved on to Cape Light, Redheads, Tuscany, etc.. He might still do street work, maybe that's where his interests really are, but his overall work is anything but the street. I believe people know him more for making pretty images of accessible subjects.

The video makes him look like a parody of himself.

I have nothing against him, but I pretty agree with what Kbg32 said: he's a good photographer for sure but not a good street photographer. He's even better with a large format camera than with a Leica; and , as an artist, he's known for (urban) landscape photography not for street photography. Would you listen to a lecture on how make landscape photography with a large format camera à la Anselm Adam ... given by HCB?? I guess it would be funny, not serious.
Best,
Marc

Jamie123
09-08-2006, 00:54
To think, he became the "official" photographer of 9/11. Unlimited access to the clean-up of the site.

Come on, give him a break. His Ground Zero photos are good.

As for the video being shot at 57th and 5th and not somewhere in Harlem. First of all just because that's where he chose to record the video it doesn't have to mean he always goes where it's "safe" (I don't know, though. Just giving him the benefit of the doubt).
IMHO street photography doesn't necessarily have to be done in dangerous places and IF you can make interesting pictures on 5th av. then there's nothing wrong with that.

Having said that, I don't think there were a whole lot of interesting pictures amongst the one they showed and why he followed the people carrying the chair for so long is a mystery to me.

There where a few things in the video that were quite ridiculous but also a lot of advice that, although nothing new for most people here on this forum, is good for people who want to get into street photography and don't know how to start. I visit the forum on fredmiranda.com from time to time and every once in a while someone asks about pointers on street photography and people start giving advice about using 200mm or 300mm (or even longer!) lenses! It's good to show people that street photography is about getting close, not hiding in the bushes.

J. Borger
09-08-2006, 01:29
He sure makes it look more exciting than it is ... and pretty dangerous too ....:)

Unfortunately i also have nothing with Meyerowitz at all ........ i looked at a couple of his books over and over again .... but his photography leaves me cold ...
he must have something giving his authority ... i just never saw it.

Nachkebia
09-08-2006, 01:41
Hehe, excellent, thank you for the link! I loved the moment when he gets couple kissing each other from back :)

ghost
09-08-2006, 01:47
cripes, why is everyone surprised about the quality of the photos he took in probably an hour? there are dozens of street photoblogs and online galleries where people don't produce anything particularly good for years and years.

Nachkebia
09-08-2006, 01:49
I really don`t understand the negative vibe from you guys, what is the problem? very entertening and he definetly has very good shots! I mean common, sense the positive too! not only negative side of the film :)

J. Borger
09-08-2006, 02:08
Yes ,,, entertaining stuff ... but jumping in front of crowds with a camera in a street-warrior outfit is perhaps the way to go in New York or the US in general .... but i can assure you that if i would give this a try in the smaller european citys i shoot i would either end up in the hospital or be picked up by the police within a day .. whatever comes first :) ..... jeeze he act like a streetrobber in his burglar outfit ...... good advice?

jaapv
09-08-2006, 02:58
Funny thing is: Not only he, but apparently also the guy taking the video, who must have been rather visible, attracts no attention at all, making the Ninja suit seem a bit overdone...Mayby the cameraman was dressed like a tourist. Nobody would take any notice at all of the whole circus in that case.

nomade
09-08-2006, 04:09
He gotta try to that some palces in Cairo and Alex, and disguise into a local first ebcause people have a strange allowance to foreigners and a stubborn denial to their compatriots!

My cameras fell a lot on the streets, and pavements, because peoplewere being so gently they didn't kill me, it's also a sort of harassement, if he ahs a solution for that i'll appreciate it, but don't take that as a negative comment.

Other aspects on the video were good, i enjoyed it, but was really furious when he was showing people how to hide...:D

lubitel
09-08-2006, 05:06
Funny thing is: Not only he, but apparently also the guy taking the video, who must have been rather visible, attracts no attention at all, making the Ninja suit seem a bit overdone...Mayby the cameraman was dressed like a tourist. Nobody would take any notice at all of the whole circus in that case.

Its new york! Nobody notices that kind of thing. If it was in any other city in US he would have been taken to police as a terrorist.

Wayne R. Scott
09-08-2006, 06:41
I watched the video and employed some of his methods yesterday on our Iowa town's main street.

I dressed in black, and used my Canon P with 35mm lens. In four hours of shooting; both of the people that came down the street noticed me. Maybe I should have been using a Leica or be dressed in blue & white striped Osh Kosh bib overhauls with a green John Deere ball cap.

Maybe I'll watch the video again, I'm reasonably certain that he said you could use those methods any where in the world. I am probably just not cut out to be a great street photographer.

Wayne

Gabriel M.A.
09-08-2006, 06:55
My cameras fell a lot on the streets, and pavements, because peoplewere being so gently they didn't kill me, it's also a sort of harassement, if he ahs a solution for that i'll appreciate it, but don't take that as a negative comment.
Unfortunately, the negativity got started when people who can't read said that the non-hurray comments were beating down on the photographer. I can never understand how that happens. I'm convinced it's a cultural thing.

I agree, being "part of the masses" makes the photographer more "invisible". I remember reading somebody's essay on blending in at a High School, how wearing like clothing, eating the same food, made him more acceptable to his surroundings as he was studying their social behaviour.

That's why I plead with all photo tourists: please, don't wear bright red shirts or baseball caps; you not only bring attention to yourselves, but stick out like a sore thumb in other people's pictures too!

Todd.Hanz
09-08-2006, 06:58
I watched the video and employed some of his methods yesterday on our Iowa town's main street.

I dressed in black, and used my Canon P with 35mm lens. In four hours of shooting; both of the people that came down the street noticed me. Maybe I should have been using a Leica or be dressed in blue & white striped Osh Kosh bib overhauls with a green John Deere ball cap.

Maybe I'll watch the video again, I'm reasonably certain that he said you could use those methods any where in the world. I am probably just not cut out to be a great street photographer.

Wayne

Wayne, you really need to be able to adapt to your surroundings. A good trick here is to drop your camera into a pkg of Redman chewing tobacco (poke a hole for the lens), then it looks like you're packing your cheek when in reality you're capturing the moment, farmer Brown and his wife Gertie will be none the wiser :D.


Todd

nomade
09-08-2006, 07:03
I'd say being invisible also depends on where you are, the size of the camera, and how long you will stick there...

jaapv
09-08-2006, 07:06
Unfortunately, the negativity got started when people who can't read said that the non-hurray comments were beating down on the photographer. I can never understand how that happens. I'm convinced it's a cultural thing.

I agree, being "part of the masses" makes the photographer more "invisible". I remember reading somebody's essay on blending in at a High School, how wearing like clothing, eating the same food, made him more acceptable to his surroundings as he was studying their social behaviour.

That's why I plead with all photo tourists: please, don't wear bright red shirts or baseball caps; you not only bring attention to yourselves, but stick out like a sore thumb in other people's pictures too!

In a number of developing countries tourists started paying their subjects. Nowadays in some areas you have to carry a stack of one-dollar bills with you. That is where the 300 mm's come in...:( :bang:

Wayne R. Scott
09-08-2006, 07:12
Wayne, you really need to be able to adapt to your surroundings. A good trick here is to drop your camera into a pkg of Redman chewing tobacco (poke a hole for the lens), then it looks like you're packing your cheek when in reality you're capturing the moment, farmer Brown and his wife Gertie will be none the wiser :D.


Todd


Todd, you haven't seen Gertie have you? I only own a 21mm wide angle lens. I don't think I could capture farmer Brown and Gertie on the same frame with that narrow of a view.

Wayne

manfromh
09-08-2006, 10:47
In four hours of shooting; both of the people that came down the street noticed me.

It seems there aren't much people in your area.

Anyway, i giggled a bit while watching the video. Ive only shot on the street once though, and that was with a SLR, a 135mm lens and in a tourist area, so im not the one to judge someones elses video. But i liked his photos

kbg32
09-10-2006, 16:08
Come on, give him a break. His Ground Zero photos are good.

I never said they weren't. I find the video entertaining, but extremely ridiculous. And Jamie, I don't have to give him a break. None of us do. E for effort - why sure. You put yourself out like that, you should be able to withstand the criticism whether good or bad. For me, the video doesn't garner him any respect.

Some of us liked it, some of us didn't. Enough said.

Peace.

jano
09-10-2006, 16:33
I dunno, maybe it's the california in me vs the whole new york thing, but I would have offered to help those people with the sculpture instead of laughing at them when they dropped it. :P I've found out that being nice, smiling, and actually part of the crowd is far more fun than playing "invisible" -- that, and you don't get the weird "stalker" or "voyuer" feeling.

My street stuff ain't the greatest, but I have more fun :D :p

ghost
09-10-2006, 16:41
i doubt it's an la vs. ny thing. i mean, i laughed. just because you have a camera doesn't automatically make you everyone's friend, either. that sounds more like overcompensating. =P

Avotius
09-10-2006, 16:43
the entire time I watched that I kept thinking...what camera and lens is he using? his photos didnt do much for me, but he seems to know for the most part what he is doing, except I cant figure out why he is dressed like a bank robber

ghost
09-10-2006, 16:45
it's an m6 ttl with 28mm summicron.

jano
09-10-2006, 16:52
i doubt it's an la vs. ny thing. i mean, i laughed. just because you have a camera doesn't automatically make you everyone's friend, either. that sounds more like overcompensating. =P

I would offer to help with or without the camera. Guess it's just me :p

Although I did find myself mesmerized by the red dot on the camera... everytime he'd flap his arms around (like a new yorker, hahah), I kept following the camera hand, watching the red dot :p

MoTR
09-10-2006, 16:55
Camera was an M6 with a 35 Lux by the look of it.
And I just watched it again, and all of the shots bar 2 are rubbish in my opinion and hes he looks like a crazy :)

terrafirmanada
09-10-2006, 17:05
Was it supposed to be a parody? I must watch it again.

Jamie123
09-10-2006, 17:31
I never said they weren't. I find the video entertaining, but extremely ridiculous. And Jamie, I don't have to give him a break. None of us do. E for effort - why sure. You put yourself out like that, you should be able to withstand the criticism whether good or bad. For me, the video doesn't garner him any respect.

Some of us liked it, some of us didn't. Enough said.

Peace.

Well with the "To think, he became the "official" photographer of 9/11" remark I thought you were implying that the photos weren't good. My mistake...english is not my first language.

Also, my remark about giving him a break was not meant to take too seriously. For all I care you can criticize him all you want. I myself am not particularly impressed by most of his work (but this is more or less irrelevant).

IMHO the video, although it's ridiculous at times, is not as useless as some others found it to be. Of course on a forum for rangefinder users the video shows nothing new but there are lots of people who don't have the slightest idea where to start when it comes to street photography.

I do admit that I was and still am defending him a little against your criticism of him going to a safe place to shoot the video, simply because I think it's the "how" and not the "where" that counts.


Anyways...I think I've already written way too much in this post. I wasn't being that serious about my previous remarks. I certainly wasn't trying to start a big disagreement with everyone who didn't like the video...because...well...we all saw the outfit.

rvaubel
09-10-2006, 17:37
Was it supposed to be a parody? I must watch it again.

I thought it was kind of crazy too. The way he was getting in peoples faces would get me a foot up my ass. The funny thing is, this guys no goofball. He's a respected photographer. He's done some pretty good stuff after 9/11 and has shows, etc.

Still, I don't see how he can get away with being so aggressive. Maybe its a New York thing.

Rex

ghost
09-10-2006, 17:47
you think he was aggressive?

RayPA
09-10-2006, 18:48
...

IMHO the video, although it's ridiculous at times, is not as useless as some others found it to be. Of course on a forum for rangefinder users the video shows nothing new but there are lots of people who don't have the slightest idea where to start when it comes to street photography.

...



I agree, and it's why I liked the video. I've never seen another photographer's approach to shooting on the street, especially someone as suuccessful as Meyerowiz. I can only imagine that these were/are the same techniques that Winogrand used—since Meyerowitz shot with him. You can laugh at the costume (which I did), and the "moon-walking" (as he tracked the action down the street), but he really brings his points across. He really was right up in peoples face, without being aggressive, and he was getting some really good shots. I think I picked up some tips that I can use.

I agree with Keith, though. This may not be a universal technique. Shooting in a different neighborhood would probably require a completely different technique. Take what you can from the video. If you find no value, then that's fine.

:)

RayPA
09-10-2006, 18:49
you think he was aggressive?

I didn't think so.

:)

back alley
09-10-2006, 19:43
i don't think i'll ever make a video for you guys;)

he was wearing gloves which suggests it was a cold day, thus the hat. i doubt he would wear it in summer. part of street shooting is to keep moving, which he was showing. i also think you have to stay put at times.
the walking backwards was new for me, i don't do that. i wonder if he did that for the camera (video) or if that's his normal technique?
i also tend to think that the video was made for newbies to the street and in that context there was some good info there.

kbg32
09-10-2006, 20:11
I think his agressiveness came across as silliness. If anyone acted that way on the street of NYC, running up to someone with a camera, I'm sure someone in a different neighborhood would have "flattened" him. I think what was saving him was the fact that there was someone else there filming him.

Wayne R. Scott
09-10-2006, 20:16
i don't think i'll ever make a video for you guys;)



If the redheads were attractive enough I don't think any one would critique it harshly.

Wayne

troym
09-10-2006, 20:38
I really like his street stuff, it's very good. His other stuff, I don't care that much about and the all-black outfit, I'm really not sure about that... I would find it rather scary if a guy like that took a pic of me in the street!!

The all-black outfit isn't out of the ordinary in NY City, so I'm sure he didn't frighten anyone.

I'm surprised that so may people had such a harsh reaction to the video. It's not really a documentary. It's more of an exaggerated illustration of doing street photography in NY. Taking it for what it is, I don't see anything remarkable or objectionable about the video.

ghost
09-10-2006, 20:38
the moonwalk is to keep the subject in focus.

RayPA
09-10-2006, 20:46
the moonwalk is to keep the subject in focus.

and it works too! I used it this weekend when I was shooting at a soccer match! :)


:)

Marc-A.
09-11-2006, 01:08
I think his agressiveness came across as silliness. If anyone acted that way on the street of NYC, running up to someone with a camera, I'm sure someone in a different neighborhood would have "flattened" him. I think what was saving him was the fact that there was someone else there filming him.

Though I don't know NYC, I'm pretty sure you're right. People see the video camera, and think: oh well, another stupid TV program.
Marc

Pherdinand
09-11-2006, 02:51
just watch it towards the end of the video. He's walking backwards on the zebra, almost walking through a poor girl, she has to go out of his way reeeeally far. There are more scenes like this, but this was the most eyecatching for me.
Yes i think he was aggressive.
I like though that he pays attention to alot of scenes around.
I would not expect him getting all great shots during such a short movie-making. None of the shots shown were particularly interesting to me, but as he said you can't predict/direct a photograph. He picked a day to make a movie and used what he got on that day, that hour, those minutes.

His way of talking, explaining the thing is just very american. Not my cup of coffee, but I got a bit used to it so i think i can ignore the blah blah and the excessive drama and the rest is, yes, somewhat useful.

Thanks for the link.

PS: the outfit: Come on, it was a cold day. He does look a bit like Leon the Professional, but i'm sure there were people looking much more weird than him, on the street.

Nachkebia
09-11-2006, 02:53
Leon the Professional :D :D :D indeeed! :D