View Full Version : New Leica 28mm 2.8 Asph
This looks like a nice lens to add to your collection. Its a 28mm 2,8 Asph.
dreamsandart
09-04-2006, 20:31
Since the older/discontinued 28 Elmarit was a really good performer, I doubt too many of us could see the difference with the 28 Summicron, I guess this is has to do with SIze, sIZe, siZE.
Looks nice
SolaresLarrave
09-04-2006, 20:52
How about price? Or should it be prIZe?
Gotta take care of the competition! :)
Yes, this new lens looks more compact than the older Elmarit, which was essentially the same size as the Summicron. Wonder how improved the imaging qualities are...
Is the body in this picture also the new m8? If so there seems to be small differenses between this one and the one earlier sent to the forum. There is the same wheel on backside but above the wheel this picture has a small button or something (like AE lock) and it seems to be smaller than viewfinder. And the top-plate also looks different, this picture seems to have film advance lever (small metal plate starts between shutter release button)?
Nice lens.
There is one more photo I have of the 28 which shows the camera front. The camera is an M7.
Your right. :bang: I examined m7 images from leica site and they look just like this one.
wlewisiii
09-04-2006, 23:11
I am certain that it's a beautiful lens & I look forward to one of our well heeled members posting shots from it. But I have this sneaking suspicion that, given it's probable price tag, I'll be shooting with my Serenar 28/3.5 for a whole lot longer :D
It is neat to see & I'm always glad to hear of new lenses from Leica or Zeiss.
William
Nachkebia
09-05-2006, 01:12
yeah! that beauty can fill up my 28mm space :)
Mark Norton
09-05-2006, 02:07
Looks even smaller front to back than the 35mm Summicron.
It's an important lens because if you buy an M8, 35mm is the new standard and this lens is the "entry level" wide-angle lens. Can't see it being less than €2000 including German VAT, call that $2200 + tax.
Interesting too that the rear lens element projects beyond the bayonet ring into the camera. Doesn't look like there's been any need to increase the lens-sensor distance for the M8 and that tells me they have the sensor light angle issue cracked. Same is true for the Tri-Elmar.
Nachkebia
09-05-2006, 02:10
$2200 for elmar? you can buy 28mm cron for that money, no?
Doesn't look like there's been any need to increase the lens-sensor distance for the M8 and that tells me they have the sensor light angle issue cracked.
Zebra coding and in-camera vignetting correction probably have a large part in this.
Philipp
Mark Norton
09-05-2006, 02:37
I'm speaking of Leica's standard prices such as you'd pay at somewhere like Adorama - they are currently listing the Summicron at $2995. This new lens is a an Elmarit, not an Elmar so f2.8.
Mark Norton
09-05-2006, 02:39
Zebra coding and in-camera vignetting correction probably have a large part in this.
Philipp
I agree, this lens and the new Tri-Elmar will be the first lenses to come with zebra coding from the outset with the associated image correction built into the camera. For future lenses, I expect lenses will come with an SD card to allow you to teach your M8 about the new lens.
For future lenses, I expect lenses will come with an SD card to allow you to teach your M8 about the new lens.
You are optimistic. I would expect Leica to do this as an in-factory firmware upgrade for $200 with possibly the option to do this for free during the warranty period.
Philipp
For future lenses, I expect lenses will come with an SD card to allow you to teach your M8 about the new lens.
Or maybe simply online.
saxshooter
09-05-2006, 11:53
Wow thats a lot smaller. Does it still focus to 0.7m?
Ted Witcher
09-05-2006, 12:15
Why does it seem impossible or undesirable for them to come up with a 28 that is as fast as the 35 Lux -- 1.4? What are the technical challenges associated with doing this?
saxshooter
09-05-2006, 12:21
Why does it seem impossible or undesirable for them to come up with a 28 that is as fast as the 35 Lux -- 1.4? What are the technical challenges associated with doing this?
I think it would be HUGE... As far as optics, in the SLR world Nikon produced a 28 1.4 AIS lens but I don't know if it was sharp wide open. Canon produced a 28mm 1.8 but not great reviews wide open. I had one, sold it. I preferred by 35 1.4 ASPH on my M6. Smaller, and sharper. ;)
Yes, elmarits are really just too slow unless you shoot outside all the time. Maybe with digital you can get away with f/2.8, because you can flip a switch and get a higher iso setting, but with film I'm alwaus shooting my Summilux's wide open or close to it.
pfft. i shoot indoors with a 28/2.8 all the time.
pfft. i shoot indoors with a 28/2.8 all the time.Well, there's quite a range of "indoor" light, isn't there? And other considerations with shutter speed, and wanting either limited or extensive DoF. I have been doing a lot of indoor shooting with an f/4 wide-angle lens on medium format, EI 500 film; "office interior" light level gives me around 1/30 - 1/60 wide open. In some restaurants and in nightclubs I'd be in trouble. Indeed I was in trouble even with f/2.0 (Contax G system) at an annual banquet last winter and the photos were unusable; I really needed flash. At an evening wedding reception a year ago, though, the 28 'cron was fine and I was glad to have the speed.
A fast lens gives you more flexibility with a tradeoff in size/cost... Nice to have the choices.
exposure value 4-6, to be more exact.
Nachkebia
09-06-2006, 02:19
I have Nikon 28mm f/1.4 (its not ais btw it is AFD) but it is huge! open wide is not that sharp, but it has amazing charecter and it is one of my favorite lenses in my nikon line-up :)
I think it would be HUGE... As far as optics, in the SLR world Nikon produced a 28 1.4 AIS lens but I don't know if it was sharp wide open. Canon produced a 28mm 1.8 but not great reviews wide open. I had one, sold it. I preferred by 35 1.4 ASPH on my M6. Smaller, and sharper. ;)
telenous
09-06-2006, 02:31
Well, there's quite a range of "indoor" light, isn't there? And other considerations with shutter speed, and wanting either limited or extensive DoF. I have been doing a lot of indoor shooting with an f/4 wide-angle lens on medium format, EI 500 film; "office interior" light level gives me around 1/30 - 1/60 wide open. In some restaurants and in nightclubs I'd be in trouble. Indeed I was in trouble even with f/2.0 (Contax G system) at an annual banquet last winter and the photos were unusable; I really needed flash. At an evening wedding reception a year ago, though, the 28 'cron was fine and I was glad to have the speed.
A fast lens gives you more flexibility with a tradeoff in size/cost... Nice to have the choices.
The problems is that at f1.4 the plane of focus is so thin that group shots at low light are out too. You 'd probably have to stop down to f2.8 which gets you back to Elmarit territory. But I agree, f1.4 is really about having the option to use it - sometimes it is very handy.
telenous
09-06-2006, 02:39
I have Nikon 28mm f/1.4 (its not ais btw it is AFD) but it is huge! open wide is not that sharp, but it has amazing charecter and it is one of my favorite lenses in my nikon line-up :)
The fastest AIS lens in 28mm is the Nikkor 28 f2. It is probably the best Nikkor lens I have tried so far. It's not bad wide open but still not quite a match to fast rangefinder lenses in 28mm. It's not small either.
wparsons
09-07-2006, 12:26
I have heard that this 28mm f2.8 lens will be:
1. inexpensive, and
2. an asph lens -- I don't see the asph markings on this lens. Shouldn't they be to the right of the feet/meter marking?
Bill
Gabriel M.A.
09-07-2006, 13:19
You are optimistic. I would expect Leica to do this as an in-factory firmware upgrade for $200 with possibly the option to do this for free during the warranty period.
Unfortunately, I don't think you're too off the mark here.
Light fall-off in wideangle lenses is more noticeable with focal lengths wider (i.e. "shorter") than 28mm for 35mm format. I'm sure this new lens has been designed with a digital sensor in mind.
The 5D's full frame sensor shows the effect of light fall-off with wide angle lenses, generally wider than 24-28mm, wide open. Voigtlaender wide angle lenses already exhibit falloff on film wide-open. I'm betting the Leica ASPH lenses would fare better, even most of the new Zeiss lenses (longer than 25mm).
The main turn-off of the 28mm Elmarit was the size; this makes it a contender. Now, somebody go buy a few and put them on the used market! (ok, kidding -- KIDDING!)
Mark Norton
09-07-2006, 20:31
Nikon have recently discontinued the 28mm f1.4 lens, looks like not many people found it attractive at the (for Nikon) high price.
There are three types of M lenses, regarding digital medium:
1. Lenses designed with the digital capture in mind:
50/1,4 ASPH (2004)
75/2 ASPH (2005)
28/2,8 ASPH (2006)
2. Modern ASPH lenses pre-digital:
35/1,4 ASPH (1994)
21/2,8 ASPH (1997)
24/2,8 ASPH (1998)
90/2 ASPH (1998)
28/2 ASPH (2000)
35/2 ASPH (2000)
Tri-Elmar ASPH (2000)
3. Classic (Mandler) lenses:
50/1 (1976)
50/2 (1979)
75/1,4 (1980)
I would recommed to buy lenses from the first group. I am not sure of the performance of wide-angle lenses of the groups 2 and 3. Leica tries to "correct" the images from these lenses using codes and internal processing, but it is likely a revision of the wide-angle pre-digital lenses...
R.
Nachkebia
09-08-2006, 01:33
Mark Norton : People of nikon admire more 1-3400mm f/5.6 VR 4, hypersilent focus motor lenses, Steve McCurry loves 28mm f/1.4 though....
The problems is that at f1.4 the plane of focus is so thin that group shots at low light are out too. You 'd probably have to stop down to f2.8 which gets you back to Elmarit territory. But I agree, f1.4 is really about having the option to use it - sometimes it is very handy.
Only if you shoot very fat persons.:p At 3 m and 1.4 the DOF for the M8 is 75 cm.
Voigtlaender wide angle lenses already exhibit falloff on film wide-open.
Actually with extreme wideangles it has nothing to do with digital sensors or with the quality of the lens maker. It's a very simple optical rule, called the cos^4 rule, that governs light fall-off and natural vignetting in rectilinear lenses. It states that the relative intensity of a light ray on the film plane is proportional to the fourth power of the cosine of the angle of incidence between the light ray and the optical axis. This is due only to laws of optics and isn't changed by stopping down. Any further fall-off due to oblique angles on digital sensors applies in addition to this.
The more extreme a wideangle gets, the more extreme this effect becomes. With a lens with 90° FOV it is already not unusual to have almost two stops in light fall-off between the center and the corner of the frame.
There isn't much you can do about it. In retrofocus lenses the effect can be addressed somewhat, because the angle of incidence behind the lens is much less sharp than in front of it, compensating at least one of the four cosines. With some lenses, such as the Zeiss 38/f4.5 Biogon in the Hasselblad SWC, the front element gets enlarged to compensate some of the edge fall-off. In general, however, in order to get homogeneous lighting with an extreme wideangle, the only thing you can do about it is a center filter.
So Cosina isn't to blame here. A Leica Tri-Elmar 16/18/21 will have the same problem. You can expect considerable vignetting simply from it being an extreme wideangle, regardless of sensor, mechanical construction etc. Of course, people will blame the sensor nevertheless, though.
Philipp
Leica and the digital technology...
Photokina 1996: the new R8 is presented. It is ready for use with a digital module.
1998: the S1 studio camera is presented, with a CCD and mount for R and M lenses (and others).
June of 2003: the digital modul R project is presented (with computer-designed mock-ups).
February of 2004: Epson presents at the PMA the R-D1 prototype.
February of 2004: Leica presents a bond-based loan for financing the DMR and M Digital projects. They acknowledge the M Digital development.
November of 2004: the DMR is delayed until June of 2005.
November of 2004: Epson ships the R-D1 camera.
Therefore, Leica thinks on digital medium from the second half of the 90's. I am not sure about the "digital tweaks" introduced in the design of the lenses, and from which date...
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