View Full Version : The M8 needs a film advance lever - but not for film
CameraQuest
09-01-2006, 17:59
The M8 needs a film advance lever -- but not for film.
To be more exact, it needs a DUMMY film advance lever.
Why?
Think about it a moment. We carry the M around in our right hand and use our thumb / lever advance to help grip the camera.
Woe be to the fast grabbing M8 owner who watches their camera slip from their hands to the concrete / rocks below.
Seriously, the M8 needs a dummy film advance lever to 1) replicate the M feel we are used to and 2) to help grip the camera.
Whether or not a M7 / MP advance lever can be installed on the M8, I don't know. IF not, it would be a smart Leica move to to design one which can be fitted to the M8.
Stephen
I agree. Gripping that camera without something, looks like an accident waiting to happen. If not a dummy film advance lever, at least something on the back for one's thumb. I'm sure there will be an aftermarket auxillary grip, costing much more than it's worth.
... and charge $250 for it ...
That's certainly the way I carry a camera.
Rich Silfver
09-01-2006, 18:25
I disagree. A faux advance lever would be ridiculous and I for one applaud Leica to not go down the R-D1 route and treat their customers as intelligent beings with hands that have been proven to be able to hold onto a number of items without dropping them.
I also may be using my Leica in the 'wrong way' as I have never felt that the advance lever in any way helps me 'grip the camera'. :)
boarini2003
09-01-2006, 18:45
I also think a "film" "advance" "lever" would be kind of... ridiculous.
I think there is a company that makes a little rubber bump that you could get and put on the back to aid in gripping the camera...
back alley
09-01-2006, 18:51
use a wrist strap...
James Brannan
09-01-2006, 19:03
I'd only think a film advance lever was not silly if it actually did something. I still like the other idea of having it do something like help charge the battery. Maybe make it programmable like a function button on a DSLR. Option A changes to different shooting banks, option B changes to a different curve, ect.
Actually I'm sure someone will come out with an accessory grip with a top protrusion with a spring loaded advance lever. Maybe I should make a few. I'm not really into Leica's but I see the price of the accessory grips and the simple machining these things entail and it really makes me wonder...
This is exactly why a-la-carte exists ... imho, there's no safer way to grip/hold/carry a M8 than using one of these:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0009VRSMS.01-A3IHV2GL6E4GW8._AA250_SCLZZZZZZZ_V64229119_.jpg
Dracotype
09-01-2006, 20:24
A small point of fact:
If you have ever used any of the Leica I, II, or III series or even one of the FSU equivalents, you have gotten by without a film advance lever.
So why would one be so necessary now?
Drew
visiondr
09-01-2006, 20:57
I think there is a company that makes a little rubber bump that you could get and put on the back to aid in gripping the camera...
Yup, Lutz Konermann makes and/or sells this exact product. He calls it the SNOB. It's a black rubber sphere you stick to the back of the camera upon which to rest one's thumb. It's only $6! Here's the link: http://www.leicagoodies.com.
Ron
I disagree. A faux advance lever would be ridiculous and I for one applaud Leica to not go down the R-D1 route and treat their customers as intelligent beings with hands that have been proven to be able to hold onto a number of items without dropping them.
So you're saying that Leica users are more "grasping" than R-D 1 users?
Or just noting that Leica customers have been forced over the years to develop extra dexterity for holding onto removable baseplates and takeup spools while reloading?
(I know you already know that the R-D 1's lever is not "faux" -- it's necessary for cocking the shutter, since the Cosina-derived chassis had no provision for the electric shutter-cocking motors found on DSLRs -- so I assume you just made that crack to be controversial...)
Instead of a lever, how about a baseplate-mounted trigger "winder" that would operate a small generator to recharge the internal battery, permitting longer shooting sessions between battery changes?
They could call it the Leicavolt...
amateriat
09-01-2006, 21:16
Owning two examples of the only other M-mount camera without a wind lever or rewind knob, I've never had a problem "getting a grip". Granted, the Hexar's "shoulders" are square, not rounded as is the standard Leica M (save for the M5), and the body's covering is rubberized. Note that this Hexar body has a SLING over the right strap lug, largely so I can let the camera "hang" from my hand while walking (with the other Hexar simply 'round my neck); I would highly recommend this accessory to anyone who hasn't used it on an M-camera yet, and especially any nervous prospective M8 owners who simply don't feel secure without that "extra something" for their thumb to catch. (Added note: now that I think of it, most Leica-toting folks I've seen who didn't have their M around their necks had some sort of strap securing camera to hand/wrist; very few relied on "wind-lever thumb-tuck" alone.)
(I'm getting a feeling Leicagoodies is about to have a run on SLINGs; I suggest anyone so inclined should get their orders in now. As usual: no connection to Leicagoodies, etc.):p
- Barrett
A small point of fact:
If you have ever used any of the Leica I, II, or III series or even one of the FSU equivalents, you have gotten by without a film advance lever.
So why would one be so necessary now?
Drew
Well said ... my IIIg feels comletely safe in my hand and if it didn't I would use a wrist strap. Mind you it probably weighs a lot less than this mysterious M8.:D
Terence T
09-01-2006, 21:22
I think the advance lever on the R-D1 is a great idea. Personally, I feel that it makes me shoot digital in a slower and more deliberate manner, having to pause between shots to think about what I want to take next. Without it, I would be machine gunning like I usually do with my DSLR.
Leica is all about ergonomics and I think its ommission will make the camera feel very strange for a while...
can't say i miss it on cameras with motor winds.
All the speculative crap aside, it is imperative that the M8 is ergonomic. This can be achieved in a number of ways, including the tried and proven method(s) we all use with existing 'M' models. eg. Wrist straps & thumb under wind lever.
The M8 is new. If Leica is worth its salt, the M8 will be comfortable albeit spartan in its ergonomics, but it must, as a basic unit be functional, durable and easy to handle. I do hope it does not go down the path of the Digilux 2 which I passed over in favour of the LC1 from Panasonic, simply because it handled better.
My present 'M' cameras do need, for me, the addition of a wrist strap as well the wind lever for comfortable prolonged handling. The evolution of the M8 is a brilliant opportunity for Leica to upgrade its ergonomics to something a little more functional, but I will be surprised (pleasantly) if they do. The M8 is (I assume) such a leap forward in Leica design that I hope effective, if simple, ergonomics have been added to improve handling over an extended period as required by any photographer involved in more than just happy snapping periodically.
Leicaiste
09-02-2006, 04:58
I don't need a faux lever, but I will have use of the possibility to delay the moment the motor is cooking the shutter after taking the picture, because I understand that's the moment the M8 is a little bit noisy.
On the R8/R9/DMR or motor, if you detach the winding lever from the camera body, the motor will not cook the shutter before you want it.
The same will be really nice on the M8.
The M8 needs a film advance lever -- but not for film.
To be more exact, it needs a DUMMY film advance lever.
Why?
Think about it a moment. We carry the M around in our right hand and use our thumb / lever advance to help grip the camera.
Woe be to the fast grabbing M8 owner who watches their camera slip from their hands to the concrete / rocks below.
Seriously, the M8 needs a dummy film advance lever to 1) replicate the M feel we are used to and 2) to help grip the camera.
Whether or not a M7 / MP advance lever can be installed on the M8, I don't know. IF not, it would be a smart Leica move to to design one which can be fitted to the M8.
Stephen
Wouldn't that be a nice accessory to sell, Stephen?
Bob Ross
09-02-2006, 07:58
I have been trying as hard as I can to remember how I never dropped my Contax II, Kodak Medalist or Oly XA for all those years that I used them, but my mental search engine seems to be off line. It must have just happened without my making a mental note of it.
Bob
I don't feel concerned as I have a R-D1 WITH lever. For all others it's to be hoped that TomA will design a gorgeous M8 rapidgrip...
Didier
Andrew Sowerby
09-02-2006, 10:21
use a wrist strap...
My thoughts exactly.
greggebhardt
09-02-2006, 10:55
No lever required or desired on the M8!
Any recommendations for a good wrist strap? (Could use one for my current M). The "sling" looks like a finger strap more than a wrist strap -- for those who have tried it versus other straps, is that a better option?
Any recommendations for a good wrist strap? (Could use one for my current M). The "sling" looks like a finger strap more than a wrist strap -- for those who have tried it versus other straps, is that a better option?
I have one of Gordy Cole's straps for my IIIc and it's perfect imho.
I'm sure you can use it on your M as well.
Cheers
Dave
back alley
09-02-2006, 15:04
expensive, but leicatime's strap is fast becoming a favourite.
Gabriel M.A.
09-02-2006, 15:07
I can't say I miss a film advance lever on a camera that doesn't exist yet.
I also have never used the film advance lever as a means to hold the camera -- what a proposition! I don't believe they're designed to sustain the torque the weight of the camera plus the force exerted by your thumb (assuming it is the thumb when you are doing this, you never know).
For a better grip I use either a wrist grip and/or a camera case; you know, because I care about my camera. The one that exists on my hand.
I can't say I miss a film advance lever on a camera that doesn't exist yet.......
Gabrielma
Aren't you being a being a little too accepting of an obvious defect in a non-existing camera that you haven't tried yet? Your calm tolerance towards a known problem (see possible pictures of potential camera), is not advancing the science and craft of camera critique.
What we need is a little more speculation to clear things up.
Rex
Straps are one of our favourite subjects!
Since getting the M5, I've found that the side-mounted strap, on the left side of the camera body, is perfect to wrap around my left wrist. The camera is secure, and my right hand is free for other duties (I'm right-handed.)
The Leica-Goodies "Sling" (the little finger-strap) I found to be not very comfortable for me.
Gabriel M.A.
09-02-2006, 15:38
Gabrielma
Aren't you being a being a little too accepting of an obvious defect in a non-existing camera that you haven't tried yet? Your calm tolerance towards a known problem (see possible pictures of potential camera), is not advancing the science and craft of camera critique.
What we need is a little more speculation to clear things up.
Rex
Indubitably:
My M8 rangefinder patch is out of alignment. Anybody else have this problem?
Indubitably:
My M8 rangefinder patch is out of alignment. Anybody else have this problem?
Gabrielma
I'm sure I'll have the same problem. They sure won't make them like they used to!
Rex
I have just been checking-I don't hold my M6 that way. The nearest comaprison I have is the Digilux2. I cannot say that a thumbgrip is needed on that one as far as I'm concerned, and a film-advance-lever-dummy? A bit too kitschy for my taste...
Maybe in the M8 a-la-carte programme of the future ;)
Since getting the M5, I've found that the side-mounted strap, on the left ide of the camera body, is perfect to wrap around my left wrist. The camera is secure and my right hand is free for other duties (I'm right-handed).
Right on. I have forever regretted letting my early M5 (one side only) go. Not a particularly pretty camera, but supremely rock-steady because of it's size and the strap thing.
I don't see why they couldn't use the advance lever as a manual source of action for the shutter. Like the RD-1... doesn't it use the shutter wind?
I don't see why they couldn't use the advance lever as a manual source of action for the shutter. Like the RD-1... doesn't it use the shutter wind?
Shutterflower
Yah, the RD1 uses the advance lever to cock the shutter. Some people seem to think the advance lever is some sort of Faux Retro affectation, but it isn't.
The M8, on the other hand, is reported to use a electronic shutter, the some one on the R8. Hence, no need for a advance lever.
I would like an advance lever on the M8. But only of it did something. My choice was to charge the battery, in case of emergancy. That would be sort of cool and in keeping with Leica's image of a camera less tied to technology than others. Of course, that would just be the image as such a feature would only be more complicated and expensive. Nevertheless, it would still be cool, sort of a mechanical, digital camera!
Fat chance
Rex
Thanks for the advice. The wrist strap seems like a good fit for me. Seems like the Gordy Cole version is a nice option. I must admit, I use the film advance lever frequently when I hold the camera. I'll be interested to see what the M8 is like without it.
amateriat
09-02-2006, 19:56
Any recommendations for a good wrist strap? (Could use one for my current M). The "sling" looks like a finger strap more than a wrist strap -- for those who have tried it versus other straps, is that a better option? SLING, as used on one of my two Hexar RFs. It's never left this body since I put it on.
- Barrett
Adhering to "form follows function", I can't support a faux lever. However, the real one of the RD-1 is more than acceptable - it's brilliant! Beyond battery conservation, it eliminates the electric motor entirely. Perhaps it's just nostalgia, but wedging my thumb behind the advance lever has felt natural since my old FM2n, and now the M4.
johnastovall
09-03-2006, 05:18
Gee, My first Leica didn't have a film advance lever and I never missed it. I'm glad it doesn't have a faux-lever. But maybe it needs a faux rapid advance base plate? :)
Ken Ford
09-03-2006, 07:15
Adhering to "form follows function", I can't support a faux lever. However, the real one of the RD-1 is more than acceptable - it's brilliant! Beyond battery conservation, it eliminates the electric motor entirely. Perhaps it's just nostalgia, but wedging my thumb behind the advance lever has felt natural since my old FM2n, and now the M4.
What he said!
It's a pity Leica didn't fit a grip similar to the Contax G2. These cameras can be held very securely
Harry Lime
01-07-2007, 13:07
The M8 needs a film advance lever -- but not for film.
To be more exact, it needs a DUMMY film advance lever.
Why?
Think about it a moment. We carry the M around in our right hand and use our thumb / lever advance to help grip the camera.
Woe be to the fast grabbing M8 owner who watches their camera slip from their hands to the concrete / rocks below.
Seriously, the M8 needs a dummy film advance lever to 1) replicate the M feel we are used to and 2) to help grip the camera.
Whether or not a M7 / MP advance lever can be installed on the M8, I don't know. IF not, it would be a smart Leica move to to design one which can be fitted to the M8.
Stephen
Hahahah.... I handled an M8 about two weeks ago, when a rep visited my dealer.
After taking the first shot my thumb automatically jumped into action to operate the advance lever, but of course there was nothing there. I looked at up at the Leica rep, with a slightly bewildered expression. He gave me an amused smile and said: "It happens to almost everyone".
But you're on to something. The camera could use something to help you hold onto it. The slippery covering doesn't help.
Joe Mondello
01-07-2007, 13:20
Well I don't have an M8 (but have handled it at a photo show), but DO own an RD-1 and yes, I definitely grip the camera in the manner described by the OP!
a dummy lever could be used to fire the shutter at one of a few speeds. The sensor can act as a sort of shutter, spotting the need for a shutter that measures out a very granular spectrum of timings. The lever would function well as a winder for the shutter.
But really...there's no sense in that.
rick oleson
01-07-2007, 14:06
Maybe if the lever powered a little generator that recharged the battery just a tiny bit (say, enough for one shot) with each stroke......
dreamsandart
01-07-2007, 15:30
Having an R-D1 I like its advance lever and analog style functions, it does feel more film-like familiar and works well along side a film loaded M-series body. But I don't see the reason for a film advance unless it did something, a good thumb grip on the back would be more useful, and if a motor advance can be fit into the M-size body, why not?
What Leica could have done 'better' to make the camera more familiar/friendly was to add analog functions [ as an example ] like the R-D1's Leica style 'rewind knob' jog dial, easy to read information dial and traditional 'fingers-on' ISO changing, which do make it 'handle' very well. But like the mechanical shutter and its manual 'wind' lever, menus and software are just easier to manufacture and less expensive to develop than hardware functions.
Its the picture is what counts in the end, but for most M-users its the ride along the way that sets the M-series/rangefinder experience apart.
comp_wiz101
01-07-2007, 15:51
I've wandered around with knob-winder cameras and I never dropped them....
I'm still waiting to get my M8, so maybe I shouldn't comment on the lack of a wind lever, but here goes anyway: Years ago I shot a lot of film with the IIIf, M2, and M4. I never missed the wind lever on the IIIf since it didn't have one. I gripped it in the usual way and used a wrist strap for security. With the M2 and M4 I still used a wrist strap, and though I did wedge my thumb behind the wind lever, I didn't depend on the lever for security.
One valid function for a wind lever is to give the shooter control over the noise involved in cocking the shutter. In Vietnam in the mid sixties, and for about a year after I got back to the States, I did a lot of shooting with a Canon 7, which was a great Leica knock-off with a Leica-thread screw-mount lens. The Canon 7 had a titanium shutter. I've listened to the MP3 of the M8 shutter signature you can download from dpreview.com. The shutter sound itself seems almost identical to what I remember as the Canon 7 shutter sound, but since you can listen to the MP3 at any volume level you choose, the MP3 doesn't tell me anything about the volume of the shutter noise. What it does tell me is that the shutter rewind sound that follows the release seems a good deal louder and is much longer than the sound of the shutter itself. For "street" shooting in quiet, less then friendly interiors it really would be nice to be able to cock the shutter slowly and quietly.
http://my-expressions.com/up_media/5436/m8_001.jpg
You loose the classic shape, but I think the ergonomics would be much better. Stick an ISO dial where the current shutter release is and move the shutter release to the grip. Lugs for a handstrap or M5 style side attachment would be nice. Grip like the linhof or Tom A's grip. Plus more room to stuff electronics maybe the camera could be slimmer.
Maybe if the lever powered a little generator that recharged the battery just a tiny bit (say, enough for one shot) with each stroke......
Now that sounds a great idea, and pausible as well!
Maybe if the lever powered a little generator that recharged the battery just a tiny bit (say, enough for one shot) with each stroke......
There are radios whose batteries are recharged by a winder. If the mechanism is small enough that would be pretty incredible. I recall the one PJ who made into the church in Bethlehem with a bunch of Palestinian fighters who holed up there during the last intifada (before the Israelis surrounded the church and cut power to it). She had to ration her shots as she couldn't recharge the battery of her DSLR. Perfect for the backcountry and in emergencies like that. Kind of fitting feature for what was the king of small format cameras in the mechanical era to have the only digital not totally dependent on batteries.
Fake advance lever? That would be the most ridiculous thing in the world.
Think about it a moment. We carry the M around in our right hand and use our thumb / lever advance to help grip the camera.
I never did that during all the decades I used M's. However I have made it a habit of grabbing the camera through the camera strap, giving it a twist around my wrist. In my experience, when it drops, it is off a table or window-ledge.:(
I have to scratch my head when people find needing to put filters on every lens for the camera to give proper color is perfectly acceptible, but bemoan not having a fake wind lever to rest their thumb.
I have to scratch my head when people find needing to put filters on every lens for the camera to give proper color is perfectly acceptible, but bemoan not having a fake wind lever to rest their thumb.
I'm scratching with you, Ben. A retro look/feel is fine, I rather like that, but non-functionality for sentimental reasons? A bit too kitschy for me. The times, they are a-changin'.
Naaa it needs a hinge out back
Noel
Naaa it needs a hinge out back
Noel
And a funky analogue clock-thing, like the rd1
Well I don't have an M8 (but have handled it at a photo show), but DO own an RD-1 and yes, I definitely grip the camera in the manner described by the OP!
Same here. That lever is the only right way to carry the camera in hand ready to shoot.
Leica DeSea
01-08-2007, 18:16
Stephen
I agree that the M8 might do well with a film advance lever ............ but not just for the purpose of "grip" .......... but mostly to "cock the shutter". This way, the "quiet of the single action of the shutter releasing" would be recouped. The M8 could possibly be as quiet as any of its earlier M-series predecessors. It might also save some of the battery power presently used to electronically set the shutter.
Attila
boilerdoc2
01-09-2007, 09:55
Get the accessory grip for $149 from Popflash. better than a dumb faux film wind lever.
Cheers.....
I don't need no film advance lever. M8 owner.:)
Naaa
Stephen does a leiciavit base fit?
Noel
To a M8? Not a chance. For one thing the camera is thicker.
http://my-expressions.com/up_media/5436/m8_001.jpg
Ugh. That's disgusting.
Ugh. That's disgusting.
It is disturbingly grossly disturbing.
http://my-expressions.com/up_media/5436/m8_001.jpg
You loose the classic shape, but I think the ergonomics would be much better. Stick an ISO dial where the current shutter release is and move the shutter release to the grip. Lugs for a handstrap or M5 style side attachment would be nice. Grip like the linhof or Tom A's grip. Plus more room to stuff electronics maybe the camera could be slimmer.
ew......:(
I like the left-hand part...;)
Umm.... there is a need for a "SHUTTER" reset lever. Hence a one way trip for a more quiet release, and a discreet QUIET re-cock away from the eye or wait/chest.
The shutter sound is TOO clunky. I guess the space acts like a boom box.
Maybe they should come out with an M8C using a Compur leaf shutter "a la" Hasselblad, and a whole new line of lenses! Either Leica or Zeiss.
>The shutter sound is TOO clunky.
Boy howdy... Okay, I'll stop there afore I gets riled...
why can't leica release a new firmware that introduces the functionality where if you hold down the shutter after taking a picture, the motor doesn't engage until you release the shutter?
why can't leica release a new firmware that introduces the functionality where if you hold down the shutter after taking a picture, the motor doesn't engage until you release the shutter?
Don't forget the camera is already super quiet. And foremost, the camera is about 4 inches from your ears so you'll obviously hear it. I'm not sure other people will hear it much. What do you think?
Some magazine or web site measured the db level of the M8 along side other cameras. It was louder then the M6 and just a little quieter then the 5D (but a longer duration which may call more attention to the sound).
Sailor Ted
01-15-2007, 09:57
It's louder then my M6 for sure however in most shooting conditions I find it to be unobtrusive- no library shooting yet however : )
T
B&W Norway
01-15-2007, 15:11
This might help – gives a good grip and looks a bit retro….
BTW, the magenta cast comes from a Epson R-D1
Sailor Ted
01-15-2007, 17:53
This might help – gives a good grip and looks a bit retro….
That's the grip I am useing and I love it.
T
I would always carry the camera around my neck and have it in its Luigi case so it shouldn't fall and has some protection.
I wouldn't like to see a wind on lever on the M8, this would be daft as there is no need for one although this is my opinion and I respect opinions of others who would like to have a winder.
Frank Dernie
05-21-2007, 10:28
Yup, Lutz Konermann makes and/or sells this exact product. He calls it the SNOB. It's a black rubber sphere you stick to the back of the camera upon which to rest one's thumb. It's only $6! Here's the link: http://www.leicagoodies.com.
Ron
that is one of those stick on "feet" you can buy to put on the base of home-made electronic boxes etc. I'm going to use one of those. My M8 has been pulled out of my hand twice now but luckily fallen onto a chair cushion, It wouldn't have fallen if the advance lever had been there, but I can't agree an actual advance lever would be appropriate but the Leica handgrip and Luigi hand grip case are a bit pricey IMO.
TS ISAAC
05-21-2007, 19:54
Missing the feel of the rewind lever on my M4 and M6, and with 5 months of hands-on use with my M8, especially in humid conditions, I find I don’t quite get the grip I would like on the camera. The Sling looks like the most secure of all compact systems, but, when it’s hot and wet, I would be inclined to try something else. Using a neck strap, I am not worried about dropping my camera, I just want a more secure and repeatable feel, each time I compose a shot.
The Leica grip allows an excellent hold on the camera, but that barrel arrangement for my fingers is awkward. When pressing the shutter release it seems my fingers don’t bend around the grip!
Considering the characteristics of these two designs, I figured I would dive into a thumb grip design of my own. I have designed castings and injection molded parts for many years, so I settled on a die-cast design made in brass, as both practical and strong, and esthetically matched to my M8. I love the lines of this camera, even its thicker body, and don’t want to detract from the traditional shape the Leica designers have preserved with such excellence. But I do want a better hold of my M8 when taking photos.
To start, I completely modeled my M8 with 3D software, to build a reliable platform from which my thumb grip idea could take shape. This method is a good way to manage the precision and the tolerances required to make the part during the casting process, as well as the esthetics. Brass is the material I am using on my prototype and it will be painted black.
In one design version, I am considering a slot for my SD card, with a 3rd hand function in mind, while changing out cards. One of these days, I figured I am going to drop a card into some water, or worse, down into a hole somewhere, so this should hold the card for those few seconds needed while I replace cards.
Please have a look at JPEGS of my design on flickr. Stay tuned for the tests of the prototype! I welcome any ideas or comments, good or bad, from the members here.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/201/508834919_ceac23d80b.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/212/508809500_9b4eb0de9f.jpg
CK Dexter Haven
12-13-2008, 13:23
Has anyone seen this? What the heck is it? Looks like it's just glued on.... Not something i'd do with a $6000 camera, but there are those a bit more intrepid....
http://flickr.com/photos/masa-/3072705443/in/set-72157605637835385/
http://flickr.com/photos/masa-/3073523100/in/set-72157605637835385/
gandalfk7
12-13-2008, 14:35
there was a thinh called "thumb up",
it's a plastic upper grip that fits in the hot-shoe and gives
your thumb a grip
now I need to sleep maybe tomorrow i'll look for a link.
cheers
I don't think gripping the camera is a problem.
For many of us, the act of advancing the film is part of the ritual of photography. I love the shutter-cocking lever on the R-D1 because it feels more like using a film camera and somehow helps my pace my shots. I don't get the same feeling with motorized SLRs or DSLRs.
I've noticed that the only times I forget to re-cock the R-D1s shutter are when I'm wasting my time chimping after the shot instead of getting my mind ready for the next shot.
CK Dexter Haven
12-13-2008, 19:07
http://matchtechnical.com/default.aspx
there was a thinh called "thumb up",
it's a plastic upper grip that fits in the hot-shoe and gives
your thumb a grip
now I need to sleep maybe tomorrow i'll look for a link.
cheers
I really like the idea of the thumbs up. I don't own an M8 but I've used one several times. I don't have great grip to begin with and find myself using the advance lever on my film M's as a partial grip. If I were to ever own an M8 I would consider trying out a thumbs up. I like the double cold shoe option as well.
HenningW
12-16-2008, 22:29
I think the idea of a 'wind lever' is silly. The camera is just fine the way it is.
When the M4 came out with it's lever I thought it was the greatest thing to that point, and I liked it way better than the M2, and certainly even more than the LTM camera knobs. I had callouses on the side of my index finger, but the M4 lever was fantastic. I still have a couple of film M's with that lever, and I enjoy using them, but the M8 doesn't need to be wound, I've never dropped either of my M8's and don't want anything that can catch on clothing, etc which the wind levers can do. That is one of their downsides. Leave off the wind lever.
Better would be the slightly contoured surfaces of the Hexar RF. That was one of the best handling motorized cameras. There certainly were things about it that weren't as good as the M7, but the shape of the contouring was excellent.
Henning
I'd only think a film advance lever was not silly if it actually did something. I still like the other idea of having it do something like help charge the battery. Maybe make it programmable like a function button on a DSLR. Option A changes to different shooting banks, option B changes to a different curve, ect.
Actually I'm sure someone will come out with an accessory grip with a top protrusion with a spring loaded advance lever. Maybe I should make a few. I'm not really into Leica's but I see the price of the accessory grips and the simple machining these things entail and it really makes me wonder...
Probably not possible on an M 8 or 9 but if the addition of a wind on lever could be made to generate enough ' electrical power' to run the camera so it wouldn't need batteries you would be on to a winner and be completley battery free.
I think if your worried about dropping 10000 dollars worth of gear buy something cheaper. As for me if I had a M8 my grip would be very tight.
Ken Ford
12-17-2008, 06:32
I like the idea too - my M6 with RW or M Motor could use it. But, like Double Negative, I think it is grossly overpriced.
Dale Cook
12-17-2008, 12:53
Ummm...it's not Leica is above adding things to the camera that serve absolutely no purpose in the digital M version. For example...the base plate. I'm with the original poster, I for one would like to have seen the film advance lever. I own an RD-1 and I have to admit it makes me feel like I'm shooting film which automatically changes my mindset and approach to taking pictures. It's not as rapid fire which for me tends to be a good thing. Sometimes slowing down can help a lot.
The ThumbsUp CS1 worked wonders for me. Replacing the original "vulcanite" with GripTac helped a lot, too. If you're worried about dropping your camera, use a wrist strap.
edlaurpic
12-18-2008, 07:31
I have had two M8s since they were first released in November 06, and, even with the accessory grip and later a Luigi case with built-in grip, I missed being able to rest my thumb on the advance lever, as I had with my Leica M film cameras (M3, then M2, then, M4, M6, MP). Then I got the thumbs up, first one of them, then another, and I am now never without it on the camera.
All I can say is that if you haven't tried an M8 with and without the thumbs-up, you might find it hard to imagine just how much more comfortable and solid one's grip is on the camera.
By the way, it takes two minutes to modify a Luigi half case to accommodate the thumbs-up.
Not sure there is a thread that shows the new double shoe thumbs-up, which I now use with my 15mm and 24mm lenses together with my 21mm and 35mm external finders, which not only leaves the center flash shoe open for other accessories (like an led light source I am now using) but also makes it possible to look through the accessory viewfinder on the left instead of in the middle of the camera body, which is much more comfortable for a guy with a large-size shnoz like mine that otherwise crunches against the LCD display while I am shooting.
Try this link:
http://robertwhite.co.uk/product.asp?P_ID=1973
The product looks good too.
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